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OfflinePsilosopherr
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Whats wrong with americas medical system?
    #23997631 - 01/10/17 09:11 AM (7 years, 20 days ago)

I'm trying to outline where all this nonsense originates. Is it with the medical schools and people who decide on the curriculum? Is it the manufacturers combined with the insurers while having the lawmakers in their pockets?

Idk, I can grasp at straws but hoping somebody else has a better understanding or can point me to some recommended reading.


My little outline:

Pill/med supply manufacturers: Provides the symptom treatments, peddles them to doctors/hospitals, why are they so freaking expensive? Can subsidize milk but not basic medical necessities? Or not even subsidize, just negotiate non-insane pricing, more on par with pricing in every other modernized country.

Medical schools/curriculum: Teaches to treat symptoms and establish life-long customers.

Doctors: Go along with med school/manufacturers scam. They've got to know, how could they not know?

Insurance Companies: Get everybody to play the lottery by skyrocketing prices, people either need insurance or will go broke paying out of pocket. Approve only symptom treatments, and cheap less than ideal treatments.

Medical Law:


Edited by Psilosopherr (01/10/17 09:39 AM)


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OfflineSunnyD
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Re: Whats wrong with americas medical system? [Re: Psilosopherr]
    #23997644 - 01/10/17 09:17 AM (7 years, 20 days ago)

That seems pretty accurate


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Invisiblebadchad
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Re: Whats wrong with americas medical system? [Re: Psilosopherr]
    #23997663 - 01/10/17 09:26 AM (7 years, 20 days ago)

It's a capitalistic system, and whether there is something "wrong" with it is a matter of perspective.


--------------------
...the whole experience is (and is as) a profound piece of knowledge.  It is an indellible experience; it is forever known.  I have known myself in a way I doubt I would have ever occurred except as it did.

Smith, P.  Bull. Menninger Clinic (1959) 23:20-27; p. 27.

...most subjects find the experience valuable, some find it frightening, and many say that is it uniquely lovely.

Osmond, H.  Annals, NY Acad Science (1957) 66:418-434; p.436


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OfflinePsilosopherr
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Re: Whats wrong with americas medical system? [Re: badchad]
    #23997675 - 01/10/17 09:31 AM (7 years, 20 days ago)

Quote:

badchad said:
It's a capitalistic system, and whether there is something "wrong" with it is a matter of perspective.



Consider the way in which this effects people lives though. Its not just about the money, this is peoples health we're talking about. People are being purposefully given inferior treatments for symptoms instead of long term cures, for one thing.

Everybody I talk to these days has a story to tell about hardships caused by this system, most more than one.


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Offlinespecialpeopleclub
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Re: Whats wrong with americas medical system? [Re: Psilosopherr]
    #23997690 - 01/10/17 09:37 AM (7 years, 20 days ago)

It isnt really capitalistic. Few tings are anymore as people let their insecurity and ignorance allow ten to support unproven economic policies because the idea of a state, parent, or god is comforting even if its an impotent thing.

The worst part I see is the lack of long term treatment like nutrition, t lack f doctor gaining in such, and the inability of doctors to literally tell their patience they are stupid for smoking or soda drinking(pretty much the same)


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OfflinePsilosopherr
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Re: Whats wrong with americas medical system? [Re: specialpeopleclub]
    #23997700 - 01/10/17 09:42 AM (7 years, 20 days ago)

I fucking know right? Diet is your medical practice until you actually injure yourself or get a disease/virus/etc...and even then it continues to be a big part of it obviously.


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Offlinespecialpeopleclub
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Re: Whats wrong with americas medical system? [Re: Psilosopherr]
    #23997704 - 01/10/17 09:44 AM (7 years, 20 days ago)

Its the tying that let's us not-olds stay healthy until we finally establish ourselves and can afford to get hurt.


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InvisibleCookieCrumbsM
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Re: Whats wrong with americas medical system? [Re: specialpeopleclub]
    #23997705 - 01/10/17 09:47 AM (7 years, 20 days ago)

Yeah the ignorance of environmental factors or allergies that don't necessarily cause histamine reactions is one thing that really bothers me.

I'll try to find the article but I read doctors are just as frustrated as anyone else. Most of their day and the busy rush is because of paperwork and phone calls. They spend something like 10% of their day with their patients.

And I dunno about you guys but I've never seen a doc that was always on time or didn't try to rush thru my appointment.


--------------------
          :dancingbear: Free time is the only time :dancingbear:                    :thatsinteresting:


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OfflineReposadoXochipilli
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Re: Whats wrong with americas medical system? [Re: specialpeopleclub]
    #23997706 - 01/10/17 09:47 AM (7 years, 20 days ago)

Its for profit. It is working exactly the way it is supossed to. 

Don't like it,  become rich i guess. I can't wait to see the details of the republicans new plan.


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Offlinespecialpeopleclub
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Re: Whats wrong with americas medical system? [Re: ReposadoXochipilli]
    #23997710 - 01/10/17 09:50 AM (7 years, 20 days ago)

Its not that its for profit that causes the problems. There isnt competition or transparency


--------------------


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OfflinePatlal
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Re: Whats wrong with americas medical system? [Re: specialpeopleclub]
    #23997717 - 01/10/17 09:52 AM (7 years, 20 days ago)

The only problem with America's health care system is that it's not universal.


--------------------


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InvisiblePrisoner#1
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Re: Whats wrong with americas medical system? [Re: Psilosopherr]
    #23997733 - 01/10/17 10:03 AM (7 years, 20 days ago)

Quote:

Psilosopherr said:
I'm trying to outline where all this nonsense originates. Is it with the medical schools and people who decide on the curriculum? Is it the manufacturers combined with the insurers while having the lawmakers in their pockets?

Idk, I can grasp at straws but hoping somebody else has a better understanding or can point me to some recommended reading.


My little outline:

Pill/med supply manufacturers: Provides the symptom treatments, peddles them to doctors/hospitals, why are they so freaking expensive? Can subsidize milk but not basic medical necessities? Or not even subsidize, just negotiate non-insane pricing, more on par with pricing in every other modernized country.

Medical schools/curriculum: Teaches to treat symptoms and establish life-long customers.

Doctors: Go along with med school/manufacturers scam. They've got to know, how could they not know?

Insurance Companies: Get everybody to play the lottery by skyrocketing prices, people either need insurance or will go broke paying out of pocket. Approve only symptom treatments, and cheap less than ideal treatments.

Medical Law:





are you somehow under the impression that just because billions are spent each
year on drug R/D that they have come up with a cure and they're withholding it
for the almighty dollar? why would they even bother with setting broken bones
and prescribing antibiotics for infections, why would they even bother to
vaccinate when they'd make more money by keeping millions of people in the
hospital on breathing machines by letting them contract polio


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InvisibleCookieCrumbsM
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Re: Whats wrong with americas medical system? [Re: specialpeopleclub]
    #23997734 - 01/10/17 10:04 AM (7 years, 20 days ago)

K I found it but it won't let me link. Article is called "Doctors Tell All—and It’s Bad" on the Atlantic.

Also found this http://abcnews.go.com/Health/WellnessNews/story?id=7884555&page=1
And think it's funny. I know people are4 stupid and annoying but why would they tell you about taking herbs when you treat them like they're stupid for it? why wouldn't they ask for particular tests if they have a particular problem? I've had migraines for years and no doc has ever ordered an MRI or brain scan to see if I have a tumor.


I understand their job sucks... Being sick sucks too... Being sick and getting shitty expensive medical care is the worse. Only people I've met in hospitals that really seem to give a shit about how the patient feels is nurses.
Quote:

specialpeopleclub said:
Its not that its for profit that causes the problems. There isnt competition or transparency




Yep. Medical industry has a dealwithit mentality.


--------------------
          :dancingbear: Free time is the only time :dancingbear:                    :thatsinteresting:


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OfflinePsilosopherr
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Re: Whats wrong with americas medical system? [Re: Prisoner#1]
    #23997743 - 01/10/17 10:07 AM (7 years, 20 days ago)

Not as dramatic as all that, more like turning a blind eye to those qualities throughout the process and instead pursuing other qualities.


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Offlinekoods
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Re: Whats wrong with americas medical system? [Re: Psilosopherr] * 1
    #23997904 - 01/10/17 11:24 AM (7 years, 20 days ago)

Healthcare is not a product that can be regulated by the free market. For a market to be free, participants must be free to enter and exit the marketplace. If prices are too high, the consumer must be able to decline to purchase the commodity. This is how prices are regulated by supply and demand.

Buying medical services generally is not something people do voluntarily, and often times it is a matter of life or death - the demand is inelastic. People will pay whatever it takes to get better or to save their lives. Inelastic demand is not compatible with a free market.

As long as we pretend that healthcare costs can be controlled by the marketplace, we will be screwed.  The only way to control costs is to regulate the costs of services. The rest of the world has figured this out. Why can't we?


--------------------
NotSheekle said
“if I believed she was 16 I would become unattracted to her”


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InvisibleCookieCrumbsM
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Re: Whats wrong with americas medical system? [Re: koods]
    #23997953 - 01/10/17 11:39 AM (7 years, 20 days ago)

Because our leaders suck corporate cock.


--------------------
          :dancingbear: Free time is the only time :dancingbear:                    :thatsinteresting:


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Offlinespecialpeopleclub
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Re: Whats wrong with americas medical system? [Re: koods]
    #23998003 - 01/10/17 11:55 AM (7 years, 20 days ago)

Quote:

koods said:
Healthcare is not a product that can be regulated by the free market. For a market to be free, participants must be free to enter and exit the marketplace. If prices are too high, the consumer must be able to decline to purchase the commodity. This is how prices are regulated by supply and demand.

Buying medical services generally is not something people do voluntarily, and often times it is a matter of life or death - the demand is inelastic. People will pay whatever it takes to get better or to save their lives. Inelastic demand is not compatible with a free market.

As long as we pretend that healthcare costs can be controlled by the marketplace, we will be screwed.  The only way to control costs is to regulate the costs of services. The rest of the world has figured this out. Why can't we?




In a free market there is competition. Volunteerism has nothing to do with anything. We need food too. Should food production be nationalised?

Its like I say, an insecure progressive sees something important, and the fact instinct is that Tue government is where security lies


--------------------


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OfflinePatlal
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Re: Whats wrong with americas medical system? [Re: specialpeopleclub]
    #23998031 - 01/10/17 12:07 PM (7 years, 20 days ago)

Quote:

specialpeopleclub said:
Quote:

koods said:
Healthcare is not a product that can be regulated by the free market. For a market to be free, participants must be free to enter and exit the marketplace. If prices are too high, the consumer must be able to decline to purchase the commodity. This is how prices are regulated by supply and demand.

Buying medical services generally is not something people do voluntarily, and often times it is a matter of life or death - the demand is inelastic. People will pay whatever it takes to get better or to save their lives. Inelastic demand is not compatible with a free market.

As long as we pretend that healthcare costs can be controlled by the marketplace, we will be screwed.  The only way to control costs is to regulate the costs of services. The rest of the world has figured this out. Why can't we?




In a free market there is competition. Volunteerism has nothing to do with anything. We need food too. Should food production be nationalised?

Its like I say, an insecure progressive sees something important, and the fact instinct is that Tue government is where security lies




In a free market there are profits and nobody wants to get poorer. Plus there are so many hospitals that its easy to know what they charge and you just match them. Then it becomes like the price of fuel. Every company is digging at different place, they're managed by different people, they have their own top secret designs and yet in the end the price difference at the pump between gas station is a couple pennies.

Private health care will always be more expensive and will always fuck up. But, you do see the doc within 10 minutes instead of waiting half an hour.


--------------------


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Offlinekoods
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Re: Whats wrong with americas medical system? [Re: specialpeopleclub]
    #23998063 - 01/10/17 12:15 PM (7 years, 20 days ago)

We need to nationalize the insurance. The fact is insurance is a necessary part of the system because nobody can afford nor predict serious health problems. Insurance is the only way to prevent people from being bankrupted by random health problems.


--------------------
NotSheekle said
“if I believed she was 16 I would become unattracted to her”


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OfflineMorel Guy
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Re: Whats wrong with americas medical system? [Re: Prisoner#1]
    #23998176 - 01/10/17 01:01 PM (7 years, 20 days ago)

Quote:

Prisoner#1 said:
Quote:

Psilosopherr said:
I'm trying to outline where all this nonsense originates. Is it with the medical schools and people who decide on the curriculum? Is it the manufacturers combined with the insurers while having the lawmakers in their pockets?

Idk, I can grasp at straws but hoping somebody else has a better understanding or can point me to some recommended reading.


My little outline:

Pill/med supply manufacturers: Provides the symptom treatments, peddles them to doctors/hospitals, why are they so freaking expensive? Can subsidize milk but not basic medical necessities? Or not even subsidize, just negotiate non-insane pricing, more on par with pricing in every other modernized country.

Medical schools/curriculum: Teaches to treat symptoms and establish life-long customers.

Doctors: Go along with med school/manufacturers scam. They've got to know, how could they not know?

Insurance Companies: Get everybody to play the lottery by skyrocketing prices, people either need insurance or will go broke paying out of pocket. Approve only symptom treatments, and cheap less than ideal treatments.

Medical Law:





are you somehow under the impression that just because billions are spent each
year on drug R/D that they have come up with a cure and they're withholding it
for the almighty dollar? why would they even bother with setting broken bones
and prescribing antibiotics for infections, why would they even bother to
vaccinate when they'd make more money by keeping millions of people in the
hospital on breathing machines by letting them contract polio





That's a little too obvious.  But they do take natural remedies and modify the compound to put their name on it and ownership with patents.

Medical service is seen as a way to get rich.  So are funeral services.  These are end of the road services that all very much agree to sky rocket prices. 

It's your life and your death.  Where else will you turn?  There's nowhere else to go.  They make all the herbal remedies illegal.  Can't just go to some cheap doctors basement and have heart surgery.  Might be able to go to China or Mexico, but who really wants that?

I'd say the main problem is the medical community treats people that they never went thru the diagnosis themselves.  Although some doctors and staff are very understanding and compassionate.


--------------------
"in sterquiliniis invenitur in stercore invenitur"

In filth it will be found in dung it will be found


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