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OfflineMorel Guy
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Why are Christians obsessed with forgivness?
    #23992749 - 01/08/17 03:31 PM (7 years, 22 days ago)

Seriously, they seem very unforgiving yet obsessed with the purity of blood to be forgiving.  Is it a suicide pact? 

Like some 90% of elected officials in the good 'ole USA claim to be Christ worshippers.  Whats up with the obsession of forgivness without forgivness?

Animals don't forget and humans pretend to forget.  Is it really smart to forget and forgive?  Or do we know the same shit could happen again?

Is it all a scam?  To get us the authority that another will decide our fate?


--------------------
"in sterquiliniis invenitur in stercore invenitur"

In filth it will be found in dung it will be found


Edited by Morel Guy (01/15/17 04:43 PM)


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OfflineMorel Guy
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Re: Why ate chistains obsessed with forgivness? [Re: Morel Guy]
    #23992773 - 01/08/17 03:37 PM (7 years, 22 days ago)

I Really think they mean saved feom their own holicost agenda.  They will create a further divide in the good ole USA.


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"in sterquiliniis invenitur in stercore invenitur"

In filth it will be found in dung it will be found


Edited by Morel Guy (01/08/17 03:38 PM)


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Re: Why ate chistains obsessed with forgivness? [Re: Morel Guy]
    #23992774 - 01/08/17 03:38 PM (7 years, 22 days ago)

The ability to forgive I think is what makes us at least seem more than just another animal.  I think forgiveness is one of the most important traits to cultivate as a human being.  I don't really know what forgiveness is but I'm certain it does not mean forget.


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OfflineMorel Guy
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Re: Why ate chistains obsessed with forgivness? [Re: cez]
    #23992811 - 01/08/17 03:50 PM (7 years, 22 days ago)

So it's an act?  An act of forgivness?

Is that what jesus meant by saying everyone is a hypocrate which means actor?


--------------------
"in sterquiliniis invenitur in stercore invenitur"

In filth it will be found in dung it will be found


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Re: Why ate chistains obsessed with forgivness? [Re: Morel Guy]
    #23992843 - 01/08/17 03:56 PM (7 years, 22 days ago)

maybe. jesus repeatedly set standards that even his closest disciples couldn't live up to.  I think that is where the whole forgiveness thing comes in.  Scripture called for perfection, yet nobody is perfect.  I'm no biblical scholar though, so i'm not sure if i'm qualified to answer this question at all.


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OfflineMorel Guy
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Re: Why ate chistains obsessed with forgivness? [Re: ballsalsa]
    #23992850 - 01/08/17 03:58 PM (7 years, 22 days ago)

In society forgiveness never happens.  People guilt and express their dissapointment in so many ways.

Why are christains obesessed with rcieving forgivness?  Did we fuck up that bad?  Do we really need a fresh start?


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"in sterquiliniis invenitur in stercore invenitur"

In filth it will be found in dung it will be found


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Re: Why ate chistains obsessed with forgivness? [Re: Morel Guy]
    #23992880 - 01/08/17 04:04 PM (7 years, 22 days ago)

it was probably a more important concept at the time when people stoned each other to death for breaking religious laws...which i suppose still happens in places.

Christianity especially focuses on the hell aspect of it as well, which, for someone worried about that, might lead to a strong desire for forgiveness for a number of "sins".  The catholic church has always cashed in by monopolizing forgiveness through the priesthood"


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OfflineMorel Guy
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Re: Why ate chistains obsessed with forgivness? [Re: ballsalsa]
    #23992919 - 01/08/17 04:17 PM (7 years, 22 days ago)

Churches are organizations and have been Governments.  I fugure we are almost post apocylips rwlgious world.  The end times for religion.  Good or bad we gotta take it.  It held us for awhile but it wasn't goimg to last or surfice.

We did nothing wrong.  We did the best we could.  We are human and we ned a lot of slack in our over populated society.  Just can't get away these days, not like in the past.


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"in sterquiliniis invenitur in stercore invenitur"

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Offlineviktor
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Re: Why ate chistains obsessed with forgivness? [Re: Morel Guy]
    #23993944 - 01/08/17 10:06 PM (7 years, 21 days ago)

I think they promote a culture of forgiveness so that they can demand it when they get apprehended for kiddy-fiddling etc.


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OfflinePeyote Road
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Re: Why ate chistains obsessed with forgivness? [Re: viktor]
    #23994203 - 01/09/17 12:29 AM (7 years, 21 days ago)

Policiticans claim to be Christ worshippers because they want to get votes from the religious folks.


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The path of the herbalist is to open ourselves to nature in an innocent and pure way. SHe in turn will open her bounty and reward us with many valuable secrets. May the earth bless you. - Michael Tierra


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OfflineLRG
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Re: Why ate chistains obsessed with forgivness? [Re: Morel Guy]
    #23995564 - 01/09/17 03:40 PM (7 years, 21 days ago)

Quote:

Morel Guy said:
Seriously, they seem very unforgiving yet obsessed with the purity of blood to be forgiving.  Is it a suicide pact? 

Like some 90% of elected officials in the good 'ole USA claim to be Christ worshippers.  Whats up with the obsession of forgivness without forgivness?

Animals don't forget and humans pretend to forget.  Is it really smart to forget and forgive?  Or do we know the same shit could happen again?

Is it all a scam?  To get us the authority that another will decide our fate?





It's a sad fact many Christians are in fact not like Christ. Despite the meaning of the word. It so happens people of other faiths are more like Christ than they. Rastafarians are very genuine and accepting people. Hindus and Buddhists are much the same in their acceptance of other people's faiths.

That being said there are many fine Christian people who aren't the judgemental "holier than thou" type. The fact that they are followers of Jesus tends to bestow upon them this mindset. Yet, most are the same people sitting around talking about how great Jesus is rather than going out in the world and making the world a better place. It's very hard to get through to them.

The whole "God will forgive you, but I won't" is a poor mindset. Those are the people who regard certain parts of the Bible for their own benefit and forget the other parts when it no longer suits them.

I can forgive just about anything, but I don't forget. However, that doesn't mean because I remember I would ever hold it against you. If you're forgiven, you're forgiven and that's that. It's up to both people if they wish to continue a relationship with said party or friend.

It's not a suicide pact, just a case of the blind leading the blind gone horribly wrong in a lot of cases.

It is smart to forgive but not smart to forget. Forgetting being taken advantage of leaves you open to the same hurt again. This list could go on. Don't forget just forgive and move on.

Ultimately, you decide your own fate. There are choices to be made and paths you will walk, but only you can choose which one is right for you.


--------------------
"I found it is the small everyday deeds of ordinary folk that keep the darkness at bay… small acts of kindness and love.” - Gandalf The Grey.

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"Each tear is a drop of poison released." - Anonymous

"Could it be you're afraid of what your friends might say if they knew you believe in God above? They should realize before they criticize that God is the only way to Love."


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Re: Why ate chistains obsessed with forgivness? [Re: Morel Guy]
    #24008377 - 01/13/17 10:31 PM (7 years, 16 days ago)

Quote:

Morel Guy said:

Why are Christians obsessed with receiving forgiveness?




Christians feel they're defective, flawed, and dirty.

They wish to be saved from this hell.

Self-loathing comes in many forms.


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Re: Why ate chistains obsessed with forgivness? [Re: RJ Tubs 202] * 1
    #24010618 - 01/14/17 07:30 PM (7 years, 16 days ago)

Forgiveness is the greatest spiritual practice. Forgiveness is acceptance is love (is enlightenment?).
Christianity has got a pretty sweet handle on forgiveness. Most people get that the world and man have an evil side, but christians also believe that God redeemed all that when christ became sin. so now everything is forgiven, you just have to come into alignment with that.  to the pure, all things are pure.


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Re: Why ate chistains obsessed with forgivness? [Re: mt cleverest]
    #24011239 - 01/15/17 02:59 AM (7 years, 15 days ago)

Forgiveness is for the Obscene?

Otherwise why would we need it in the first place?

So if you can posit a reality where things go wrong, Bad people etc...

Satan is this idea..that doing wrong is good for your soul..for example..

Satan can influence allot of people...by pretending to be a Freemason..But in reality he is just a monster that wants to rape people..

So the question is?

How can I become a Freemason?

Well I would just have to forgive them!


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OfflineMarkostheGnostic
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Re: Why ate chistains obsessed with forgivness? [Re: mt cleverest] * 1
    #24012019 - 01/15/17 11:47 AM (7 years, 15 days ago)

Quote:

mt cleverest said:
Forgiveness is the greatest spiritual practice. Forgiveness is acceptance is love (is enlightenment?).
Christianity has got a pretty sweet handle on forgiveness. Most people get that the world and man have an evil side, but christians also believe that God redeemed all that when christ became sin. so now everything is forgiven, you just have to come into alignment with that.  to the pure, all things are pure.




I agree with your words, and would add that in the 5-Path® method of Hypnotherapy that I use, forgiveness of self and of those who hurt us is absolutely necessary for the remission of symptoms due to traumatic events. Often clients will have difficulty forgiving self or other, but it must be done by them for a resolution of the injury. I sometimes have to explain that one does not forgive because the offender deserves it, but that one forgives in order to disengage or detach from the effects that individual has caused. Then the therapy can proceed in the session to the annihilation of negative feelings that are 'stuck' to the client like "barnacles on the hull of a boat," "emotional parasites," that need to be plucked off (or out), and incinerated in a potent visualization exercise (Gray Room technique).

But the point is, one must first sever the emotional attachment to the offender by forgiveness and then they must forgive themselves for any self-loathing they have had, or for the times they beat themselves up emotionally or physically with self-destructive behaviors for their weakness or failures to act. They were not ready, it must be explained, but they are NOW, by virtue of the very fact that they have finally arrived in a therapy chair. Paraphrasing BE HERE NOW, you cannot rip the skin off the snake, the snake must shed its skin when the time is right to do so. Forgiveness is not forgetfulness (something a lot of people request - amnesia for an event), but another snake simile is that while the image of the event will remain, the 'guts' of it will be gone. The memory will be like the hollow shed skin of a snake, having a semblance of the snake, but minus its danger.

I think forgiveness serves the same purpose in the teachings of Jesus in the gospels. Forgiveness requires detachment inasmuch as compassion (or agapé) requires detachment from any thought of reward. This is how compassion and wisdom (or emptiness) are united in Buddhism as well. Empty and meaningless in itself, a cruelty perpetrated on a child (for example) was preceded by a chain of sick events in the life of the offender. It was not deserved by the client, so the client can disown the pain visited upon him/her by a sick individual. By forgiving, they cease to process the pain as personal, like ceasing to rant at a driverless car which has rolled into your own car by gravity, not by a driver's intention. This is how I would describe the 'mechanics' behind the logical and emotional ability to forgive. :shrug:


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Re: Why ate chistains obsessed with forgivness? [Re: MarkostheGnostic]
    #24012371 - 01/15/17 02:53 PM (7 years, 15 days ago)

well on my opinion,,, yeah. if u forgive and forget ur not hateing.
hating is bad, u can harm ppl and do stuff u will regret.
so yeah... its msart but its not right enough...
couse of life.


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OfflineMorel Guy
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Re: Why ate chistains obsessed with forgivness? [Re: mitmitice1]
    #24012595 - 01/15/17 04:41 PM (7 years, 15 days ago)

I'm going to have to die many times to forget and forgive what experience has taught me.


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In filth it will be found in dung it will be found


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OfflineDuncan Rowhl
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Re: Why ate chistains obsessed with forgivness? [Re: Morel Guy]
    #24013603 - 01/16/17 01:27 AM (7 years, 14 days ago)

Quote:

Morel Guy said:
So it's an act?  An act of forgivness?

Is that what jesus meant by saying everyone is a hypocrate which means actor?




Perhaps he simply meant that people complain about things, that they themselves perpetuate.

The person of use makes the change in themselves and thus, they needn't guess nor question the fruits of forgiveness, since they witness the benefits first hand.


Edited by Duncan Rowhl (01/16/17 02:04 AM)


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Re: Why ate chistains obsessed with forgivness? [Re: Duncan Rowhl]
    #24020731 - 01/18/17 05:24 PM (7 years, 12 days ago)

Quote:

Duncan Rowhl said:

Perhaps he simply meant that people complain about things, that they themselves perpetuate.




Maybe ? related to the passage "Father, forgive them, for they don't know what they are doing."

In reference to the concept that we're usually ignorant of how we pave our own road to hell.


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Re: Why are Christians obsessed with forgivness? [Re: Morel Guy]
    #24021742 - 01/19/17 12:05 AM (7 years, 11 days ago)

That we commit acts against our ideals doesn't make us flawed. It makes us human.

Forgiveness is difficult because we love (LOVE) to judge and condemn others.

I don't hate anyone's behavior. That's ignorant and just creates more hate.

I could say, "I hate Hitler" but that just pours salt into my wound.


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Re: Why are Christians obsessed with forgivness? [Re: Morel Guy] * 1
    #24021760 - 01/19/17 12:25 AM (7 years, 11 days ago)

Suffering is part of life. Why hate it? That just adds more hate to the world.

Humans are passionate they are "flawed". This is a result of self-hatred.

I reject any idea that's born from self-loathing. I've give that crap up.

I don't hate Hitler's behavior is what I meant. All things considered, his actions made sense.


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OfflineDuncan Rowhl
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Re: Why ate chistains obsessed with forgivness? [Re: RJ Tubs 202] * 2
    #24021826 - 01/19/17 01:31 AM (7 years, 11 days ago)

Quote:

RJ Tubs 202 said:
Quote:

Duncan Rowhl said:

Perhaps he simply meant that people complain about things, that they themselves perpetuate.




Maybe ? related to the passage "Father, forgive them, for they don't know what they are doing."

In reference to the concept that we're usually ignorant of how we pave our own road to hell.




Exactly what I had in mind too. :thumbup:


Quote:

If you start towing the line that there's no black and white and everything is everything, the world can and will get a whole lot of this 'black' you claim doesn't exist and you'll have no grounding to argue its anything than what it already is ..





I'd see 'towing the line' as facing the notion that 'bad' is indeed bad and making effort to counter it (with 'light') instead of taking it as a mere part of the world, when it is perhaps the entire fault of the world and oneself.

If we insist on being the animal in dualism however, the world will vend to our needs, so people can be forgiven in that they can't see past that curtain that they themselves hang.

This is where 'faith' comes in, contrary to common misassumption that it simply means 'belief in God without proof'. It starts and ends with the core of the self, relinquishing the guard and the fight, trusting in heart and knowing that curtain of wrong-mindedness is there, present every day trying to veil our thoughts.

That's where the 'fight' is and that's what the 'faith' is.


Edited by Duncan Rowhl (01/19/17 02:50 AM)


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OfflineDuncan Rowhl
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Re: Why ate chistains obsessed with forgivness? [Re: Morel Guy]
    #24021989 - 01/19/17 05:11 AM (7 years, 11 days ago)

Quote:

You take heed and re-read that bible you claim to have not have a misassumption about. You seem to be centered on one of the biggest illusions of them all.




Assumptions are only on your part since I haven't read, nor do I follow The Bible.

Quote:

You got some splainin' to do Duncan




There's no onus to explain.  It's a gift which you take or leave. 

Sin, as noted, is there for repair whenever you find the courage to place faith in the essence of yourself.


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OfflineDuncan Rowhl
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Re: Why ate chistains obsessed with forgivness? [Re: Morel Guy]
    #24022037 - 01/19/17 05:54 AM (7 years, 11 days ago)

If something which I state correlates with a topic in The Bible, then that's simply something for you to quietly ponder as a scholar of the book knowing now that it's not my area of study. 

If ones efforts to understand were as potent as their desire to be correct, they would surely attain knosis sooner rather than later.

The fight is yours and yours only.


Edited by Duncan Rowhl (01/19/17 06:07 AM)


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Re: Why ate chistains obsessed with forgivness? [Re: Morel Guy]
    #24024477 - 01/19/17 11:18 PM (7 years, 10 days ago)

Quote:

proth said:

Quote:

RJ Tubs 202 said:
I don't hate Hitler's behavior is what I meant. All things considered, his actions made sense.




:knowwhatnevermind:






When we refuse to see other's humanity, we put our ego on the throne of gods.

If you had lived Hitler's life, you would understand and appreciate his behavior.

Can you stop for a moment and connect with him as a human, instead of a devil?


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OfflineDuncan Rowhl
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Re: Why ate chistains obsessed with forgivness? [Re: RJ Tubs 202]
    #24028195 - 01/21/17 01:03 PM (7 years, 9 days ago)

Quote:

RJ Tubs 202 said:
Quote:

proth said:

Quote:

RJ Tubs 202 said:
I don't hate Hitler's behavior is what I meant. All things considered, his actions made sense.




:knowwhatnevermind:






When we refuse to see other's humanity, we put our ego on the throne of gods.

If you had lived Hitler's life, you would understand and appreciate his behavior.

Can you stop for a moment and connect with him as a human, instead of a devil?




This is the fundamental fault of the current president and the majority who support him. Terms such as 'Christ' are mentioned often by these people (on TV recently in particular) in a bid to justify their position, yet their position is to the absolute contrary of what it represents.

The current presidency represents the absolute pinnacle of wrong-mindedness.  It is such a brilliant example we should be perversely grateful for it.

It's important as ever for the people to find anchor with the way.

There is a gargantuan difference between study / using terms and actual understanding.

It is evident who understands, because, by default, the true understanding leads to inevitable practice, because it represents the only truth.


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Re: Why ate chistains obsessed with forgivness? [Re: Duncan Rowhl]
    #24044865 - 01/27/17 06:31 PM (7 years, 3 days ago)

Quote:

Duncan Rowhl said:

The current presidency represents the absolute pinnacle of wrong-mindedness.




And who doesn't seek to justify their positions?

Isn't everyone guilty of that?


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OfflineDuncan Rowhl
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Re: Why ate chistains obsessed with forgivness? [Re: RJ Tubs 202]
    #24044977 - 01/27/17 07:35 PM (7 years, 3 days ago)

Quote:

RJ Tubs 202 said:
Quote:

Duncan Rowhl said:

The current presidency represents the absolute pinnacle of wrong-mindedness.




And who doesn't seek to justify their positions?

Isn't everyone guilty of that?




I think you jumped to defence when my quotation was to prove my partial agreement with you.

Many people jump to fortify their position, Q.E.D. - my reply being no exception.

The question is (in context) is, whether that chosen opinion is truly any good, any 'light', or any 'use" -  beyond the mere fuelling of the destructive ego, which just falsely reassures that we are better than the next.

There are many people who don't seek to justify opinions, simply for the fact that their knosis is enough and all.

Some write books, some remain mute.

'Positions' can be ill founded, but then one could argue subjectivity and dualism, so it's a subjective debate. 

Light is bright, but that's in the eyes of the perceiver.:thumbup:


Edited by Duncan Rowhl (01/27/17 08:06 PM)


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OfflineLucisM
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Re: Why ate chistains obsessed with forgivness? [Re: ballsalsa] * 1
    #24046098 - 01/28/17 10:18 AM (7 years, 2 days ago)

Quote:

ballsalsa said:
maybe. jesus repeatedly set standards that even his closest disciples couldn't live up to.  I think that is where the whole forgiveness thing comes in.  Scripture called for perfection, yet nobody is perfect.  I'm no biblical scholar though, so i'm not sure if i'm qualified to answer this question at all.





I think the standard was set so high because if it wasn't, then somebody would reach it the top, and possibly manipulate it somehow, so with a very high standard, we're constantly striving to be better, and never becoming complacent and lazy.


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Offlineakira_akuma
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Re: Why are Christians obsessed with forgivness? [Re: RJ Tubs 202]
    #24046307 - 01/28/17 11:50 AM (7 years, 2 days ago)

Quote:

RJ Tubs 202 said:
Suffering is part of life. Why hate it? That just adds more hate to the world.

Humans are passionate they are "flawed". This is a result of self-hatred.

I reject any idea that's born from self-loathing. I've give that crap up.

I don't hate Hitler's behavior is what I meant. All things considered, his actions made sense.





LOL there ya go with your death cult mentality.


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OfflineLucisM
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Re: Why are Christians obsessed with forgivness? [Re: Morel Guy]
    #24046937 - 01/28/17 04:47 PM (7 years, 2 days ago)

Quote:

proth said:
So, why do some people strongly claim to be one thing yet commit acts in direct contrary?
Sit them down and ask them ....  It's one of the most effective and constructive ways to heal the world.. Yet, not many can bring themselves to do it or slow themselves down enough for it to occur. Everybody's busy 'doing' you see and in that they lose the connection with why they are doing it.






I was talking to a family member about this the other day, how many Christians are in my eyes Satanists, and vice versa.

I think many people that practice Christianity, only do so out of fear for what might happen to their soul after death, but they never actually have faith in it to begin with, just because someone says they're an adherent to a faith, doesn't mean they understand it.


I have been told I have fierce eyes, and I often wear black, some people get spooked and think this means I am down with causing hell on earth, when in reality I am probably more at peace than most people, I just think to much.:lol:

My actions, my words, come from a standpoint of love and understanding.


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Offlineakira_akuma
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Re: Why are Christians obsessed with forgivness? [Re: Morel Guy]
    #24049683 - 01/29/17 05:41 PM (7 years, 1 day ago)

christianity = a basis of "philosophy" (antiquity), based on religious prophecy from old tribal lore from a religions oral history.


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InvisibleSenor_Doobie
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Re: Why ate chistains obsessed with forgivness? [Re: Morel Guy]
    #24049780 - 01/29/17 06:15 PM (7 years, 1 day ago)

Quote:

Morel Guy said:
In society forgiveness never happens.  People guilt and express their dissapointment in so many ways.

Why are christains obesessed with rcieving forgivness?  Did we fuck up that bad?  Do we really need a fresh start?




here's what I think.  Forgiveness is necessary for Christians because they want to follow in the way of Christ, but know that they are corrupt.  The notion of forgiveness gives us the faith to proceed anyway. 

In many ways, corruption is necessary for salvation.  You can't know what good is without knowing evil.  Without forgiveness, we'd all be damned.


--------------------
"America: Fuck yeah!" -- Alexthegreat

“Nothing can now be believed which is seen in a newspaper. Truth itself becomes suspicious by being put into that polluted vehicle. The real extent of this state of misinformation is known only to those who are in situations to confront facts within their knowledge with the lies of the day.”  -- Thomas Jefferson

The greatest sin of mankind is ignorance.

The press takes [Trump] literally, but not seriously; his supporters take him seriously, but not literally. --Salena Zeto (9/23/16)


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OfflineDuncan Rowhl
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Re: Why ate chistains obsessed with forgivness? [Re: Senor_Doobie]
    #24063227 - 02/03/17 05:23 PM (6 years, 11 months ago)

Quote:

Senor_Doobie said:
Quote:

Morel Guy said:
In society forgiveness never happens.  People guilt and express their dissapointment in so many ways.

Why are christains obesessed with rcieving forgivness?  Did we fuck up that bad?  Do we really need a fresh start?




here's what I think.  Forgiveness is necessary for Christians because they want to follow in the way of Christ, but know that they are corrupt.  The notion of forgiveness gives us the faith to proceed anyway. 

In many ways, corruption is necessary for salvation.  You can't know what good is without knowing evil.  Without forgiveness, we'd all be damned.




'Christ' is just an expression for pure consciousness.

It's not confined to the religion that was labelled 'Christianity'.

Forgiveness is necessary to establish and maintain the stream of pure consciousness.

Any 'Sin' blocks the stream.

Forgiveness of another person is given in no way different from forgiving your finger from burning 'itself' on an oven grill, for it is part of the self.


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Re: Why are Christians obsessed with forgivness? [Re: Morel Guy] * 2
    #24063249 - 02/03/17 05:31 PM (6 years, 11 months ago)

everyone makes mistakes, no human is perfect.  Guilt and shame are powerful emotions.  Forgiveness is the only action and emotion powerful enough to relieve that imo.


I forgive easily.  Not because I want to sometimes but because I make mistakes and like to be forgiven.  Also it takes too much energy to live in anger and life is too short to be begrudging


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Offlinegraceful dragon
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Re: Why are Christians obsessed with forgivness? [Re: sprinkles] * 1
    #24063274 - 02/03/17 05:39 PM (6 years, 11 months ago)

Yes. This is very well said, and true.


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InvisibleThe Blind Ass
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Re: Why ate chistains obsessed with forgivness? [Re: graceful dragon]
    #24063323 - 02/03/17 06:00 PM (6 years, 11 months ago)

Forgive them father for they know not what they do. - Humpty Dumpty


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OfflineRJ Tubs 202
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Re: Why are Christians obsessed with forgivness? [Re: sprinkles]
    #24063877 - 02/03/17 10:28 PM (6 years, 11 months ago)

Quote:

sprinkles said:

everyone makes mistakes, no human is perfect.




We claim we aren't perfect, but does that have meaning?

A mouse bites the cheese and the trap snaps shut.

Is the mouse "imperfect" because it made a "mistake"? 

Is what we call a "mistake" just an unintended consequence?


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InvisibleSenor_Doobie
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Re: Why are Christians obsessed with forgivness? [Re: RJ Tubs 202]
    #24063889 - 02/03/17 10:32 PM (6 years, 11 months ago)

Yeah, it has meeting.  We have to recognize our imperfections in order to improve ourselves.  It's self-awareness.  If you really want to get anywhere in life, you have to be aware of your flaws and work to correct them or compensate for them.


--------------------
"America: Fuck yeah!" -- Alexthegreat

“Nothing can now be believed which is seen in a newspaper. Truth itself becomes suspicious by being put into that polluted vehicle. The real extent of this state of misinformation is known only to those who are in situations to confront facts within their knowledge with the lies of the day.”  -- Thomas Jefferson

The greatest sin of mankind is ignorance.

The press takes [Trump] literally, but not seriously; his supporters take him seriously, but not literally. --Salena Zeto (9/23/16)


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OfflineRJ Tubs 202
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Re: Why are Christians obsessed with forgivness? [Re: Senor_Doobie]
    #24063900 - 02/03/17 10:38 PM (6 years, 11 months ago)

I've abandoned the notion life is a perpetual self-improvement project.

How would it feel to give up the idea that you are flawed?

Isn't that just ego talking?


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InvisibleSenor_Doobie
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Re: Why are Christians obsessed with forgivness? [Re: RJ Tubs 202]
    #24063920 - 02/03/17 10:47 PM (6 years, 11 months ago)

It would feel empty.

The ego is the mediator betwen impulse and society.  Why is that a bad thing?


--------------------
"America: Fuck yeah!" -- Alexthegreat

“Nothing can now be believed which is seen in a newspaper. Truth itself becomes suspicious by being put into that polluted vehicle. The real extent of this state of misinformation is known only to those who are in situations to confront facts within their knowledge with the lies of the day.”  -- Thomas Jefferson

The greatest sin of mankind is ignorance.

The press takes [Trump] literally, but not seriously; his supporters take him seriously, but not literally. --Salena Zeto (9/23/16)


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Offlineakira_akuma
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Re: Why are Christians obsessed with forgivness? [Re: Senor_Doobie]
    #24063966 - 02/03/17 11:08 PM (6 years, 11 months ago)

another silly bifurcation of dichotomy (false, that is) presented.


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InvisibleSenor_Doobie
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Re: Why are Christians obsessed with forgivness? [Re: akira_akuma]
    #24063967 - 02/03/17 11:10 PM (6 years, 11 months ago)

You are babbling again.


--------------------
"America: Fuck yeah!" -- Alexthegreat

“Nothing can now be believed which is seen in a newspaper. Truth itself becomes suspicious by being put into that polluted vehicle. The real extent of this state of misinformation is known only to those who are in situations to confront facts within their knowledge with the lies of the day.”  -- Thomas Jefferson

The greatest sin of mankind is ignorance.

The press takes [Trump] literally, but not seriously; his supporters take him seriously, but not literally. --Salena Zeto (9/23/16)


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OfflineRJ Tubs 202
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Re: Why are Christians obsessed with forgivness? [Re: Senor_Doobie]
    #24064117 - 02/04/17 12:51 AM (6 years, 11 months ago)

Quote:

Senor_Doobie said:

It would feel empty.




You would feel empty if you did not believe you are flawed?

"empty" as in worthless or "empty" as in content?

It can be a challenge to abandon the notion we're defective.


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Offlineakira_akuma
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Re: Why are Christians obsessed with forgivness? [Re: Senor_Doobie]
    #24064224 - 02/04/17 02:47 AM (6 years, 11 months ago)

Quote:

Senor_Doobie said:
You are babbling again.



if you thought i was babbling the first time, you'd still be wrong.

more so than your "ego", and more so than RJ's perennial philosophy, there is a the union of those ideas that is a more accurate representation of reality. so why argue over quibbles. well.  you know you believe these things are so real, so i guess there is no stopping you. :shrug:


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InvisibleSenor_Doobie
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Re: Why are Christians obsessed with forgivness? [Re: RJ Tubs 202]
    #24064513 - 02/04/17 07:52 AM (6 years, 11 months ago)

Quote:

RJ Tubs 202 said:
Quote:

Senor_Doobie said:

It would feel empty.




You would feel empty if you did not believe you are flawed?

"empty" as in worthless or "empty" as in content?

It can be a challenge to abandon the notion we're defective.




It's a challenge because it's false.

And both. 

If you believe that you are perfect, what is the point of living?  - worthless
If you believe that you are perfect, where do you derive meaning?  - content


--------------------
"America: Fuck yeah!" -- Alexthegreat

“Nothing can now be believed which is seen in a newspaper. Truth itself becomes suspicious by being put into that polluted vehicle. The real extent of this state of misinformation is known only to those who are in situations to confront facts within their knowledge with the lies of the day.”  -- Thomas Jefferson

The greatest sin of mankind is ignorance.

The press takes [Trump] literally, but not seriously; his supporters take him seriously, but not literally. --Salena Zeto (9/23/16)


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OfflineRJ Tubs 202
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Re: Why are Christians obsessed with forgivness? [Re: Senor_Doobie]
    #24080736 - 02/10/17 08:15 PM (6 years, 11 months ago)

To find meaning in life we must view ourselves as defective?

Perfection and imperfection is a lie we've been sold.

It's based in self-hatred, and fuels anxiety, rage, and depression.


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InvisibleSenor_Doobie
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Re: Why are Christians obsessed with forgivness? [Re: RJ Tubs 202]
    #24083243 - 02/11/17 09:08 PM (6 years, 11 months ago)

Perfection is an ideal.

Ideals are impossible to meet.

But if we don't try, what the hell are we doing?


--------------------
"America: Fuck yeah!" -- Alexthegreat

“Nothing can now be believed which is seen in a newspaper. Truth itself becomes suspicious by being put into that polluted vehicle. The real extent of this state of misinformation is known only to those who are in situations to confront facts within their knowledge with the lies of the day.”  -- Thomas Jefferson

The greatest sin of mankind is ignorance.

The press takes [Trump] literally, but not seriously; his supporters take him seriously, but not literally. --Salena Zeto (9/23/16)


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InvisibleThe Blind Ass
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Re: Why are Christians obsessed with forgivness? [Re: Senor_Doobie]
    #24083245 - 02/11/17 09:09 PM (6 years, 11 months ago)

Dune.


--------------------
Give me Liberty caps -or- give me Death caps


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InvisibleSenor_Doobie
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Re: Why are Christians obsessed with forgivness? [Re: The Blind Ass]
    #24083247 - 02/11/17 09:12 PM (6 years, 11 months ago)

How come?


--------------------
"America: Fuck yeah!" -- Alexthegreat

“Nothing can now be believed which is seen in a newspaper. Truth itself becomes suspicious by being put into that polluted vehicle. The real extent of this state of misinformation is known only to those who are in situations to confront facts within their knowledge with the lies of the day.”  -- Thomas Jefferson

The greatest sin of mankind is ignorance.

The press takes [Trump] literally, but not seriously; his supporters take him seriously, but not literally. --Salena Zeto (9/23/16)


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OfflineRJ Tubs 202
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Re: Why are Christians obsessed with forgivness? [Re: Senor_Doobie]
    #24083448 - 02/11/17 11:06 PM (6 years, 11 months ago)

Quote:

Senor_Doobie said:

Perfection is an ideal.

Ideals are impossible to meet.

But if we don't try, what the hell are we doing?




Why would we set ourselves up for failure? That's not wise.

Why would we create a value that's impossible to meet?

We can set values without creating impossible ideals.

We have the ability to set values that don't fluctuate.

It is possible for people to act based on their values.


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InvisibleHuehuecoyotl
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Re: Why are Christians obsessed with forgivness? [Re: RJ Tubs 202]
    #24083493 - 02/11/17 11:34 PM (6 years, 11 months ago)

cause they need self forgiveness and cannot grant this themselves...due to rigid authoritarian structure.


--------------------
"A warrior is a hunter. He calculates everything. That's control. Once his calculations are over, he acts. He lets go. That's abandon. A warrior is not a leaf at the mercy of the wind. No one can push him; no one can make him do things against himself or against his better judgment. A warrior is tuned to survive, and he survives in the best of all possible fashions." ― Carlos Castaneda


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OfflineRJ Tubs 202
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Re: Why are Christians obsessed with forgivness? [Re: Huehuecoyotl]
    #24083560 - 02/12/17 12:28 AM (6 years, 11 months ago)

Isn't that perspective rooted in shame?


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InvisibleSenor_Doobie
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Re: Why are Christians obsessed with forgivness? [Re: RJ Tubs 202]
    #24083918 - 02/12/17 07:28 AM (6 years, 11 months ago)

No.  It's rooted in introspection.  That's where the need for forgiveness comes from, is the ability to recognize your wrongs. 

Quote:

Why would we set ourselves up for failure? That's not wise




Thhis depends on how you define failure.  People who pursue perfection are fully aware that they can not realize that ultimate goal.  So, in a sense, perfection is not a goal at all, but a target that can be neared through proper living.

Quote:

Why would we create a value that's impossible to meet?




How else can you hope to maximize your worth?  If you set goals that can be met, how do you ever push yourself? 

Quote:

We can set values without creating impossible ideals.




We can set personal values anyway we want, sure.  The argument is which strategy is the best strategy.

Quote:

We have the ability to set values that don't fluctuate.



Why is this good?  Your values should change as you learn more.  Defining your values more sharply over time gives you something more specific to aim for. 

Quote:

It is possible for people to act based on their values.




People act on their values all the time.  This is a given.


--------------------
"America: Fuck yeah!" -- Alexthegreat

“Nothing can now be believed which is seen in a newspaper. Truth itself becomes suspicious by being put into that polluted vehicle. The real extent of this state of misinformation is known only to those who are in situations to confront facts within their knowledge with the lies of the day.”  -- Thomas Jefferson

The greatest sin of mankind is ignorance.

The press takes [Trump] literally, but not seriously; his supporters take him seriously, but not literally. --Salena Zeto (9/23/16)


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Offlinebigdoodie
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Re: Why are Christians obsessed with forgivness? [Re: Morel Guy]
    #24084142 - 02/12/17 09:34 AM (6 years, 11 months ago)

Fuckem


Edited by bigdoodie (02/12/17 03:21 PM)


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InvisibleSenor_Doobie
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Re: Why are Christians obsessed with forgivness? [Re: bigdoodie]
    #24084177 - 02/12/17 09:47 AM (6 years, 11 months ago)

Quote:

bigdoodie said:
Same reason we do anything at all, because we still want to believe anything actually matters, and many of them believe freedom lies in forgiveness, but when we are free it is because we do not belong to anything, and we all want to belong somewhere, church seems like a safe place to belong to, and I think most of us, fearing the unknown, want a sense of security around us.




How is "freedom from anything" a worthy value?


--------------------
"America: Fuck yeah!" -- Alexthegreat

“Nothing can now be believed which is seen in a newspaper. Truth itself becomes suspicious by being put into that polluted vehicle. The real extent of this state of misinformation is known only to those who are in situations to confront facts within their knowledge with the lies of the day.”  -- Thomas Jefferson

The greatest sin of mankind is ignorance.

The press takes [Trump] literally, but not seriously; his supporters take him seriously, but not literally. --Salena Zeto (9/23/16)


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InvisibleSenor_Doobie
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Re: Why are Christians obsessed with forgivness? [Re: Senor_Doobie]
    #24087852 - 02/13/17 05:39 PM (6 years, 11 months ago)

Where'd everybody go?

Have we reached the depths of nihilism?

"Freedom from anything" is a valid way to live because..."whatever"?

Wow, what an attractive "philosophy".


--------------------
"America: Fuck yeah!" -- Alexthegreat

“Nothing can now be believed which is seen in a newspaper. Truth itself becomes suspicious by being put into that polluted vehicle. The real extent of this state of misinformation is known only to those who are in situations to confront facts within their knowledge with the lies of the day.”  -- Thomas Jefferson

The greatest sin of mankind is ignorance.

The press takes [Trump] literally, but not seriously; his supporters take him seriously, but not literally. --Salena Zeto (9/23/16)


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