|
Some of these posts are very old and might contain outdated information. You may wish to search for newer posts instead.
|
BlueFire_ita
Newbie

Registered: 12/07/16
Posts: 9
Loc: Italy
Last seen: 6 years, 9 months
|
Scholastic cultivation of Panaeolus in big "Petri dish incubator" [photo]
#23987481 - 01/06/17 06:59 PM (7 years, 24 days ago) |
|
|
Hello everyone. I'm here asking for quite specific advice for a cultivation, I tried to be as clear as possible in the title, if not I'll edit it. I'll begin with premises, out you don't usually like them and want to go straight to the point read only after the photographs 
For those who like the history behind things: I'm an Italian guy who, this year, is finishing high school studies (specialized in chemistry). We usually take, for the final exam, a theoretical or practical work, which, in my case, will be psychoactive substances-based. You can't imagine the frustration of creating everything legally-doable (you can't, sadly work with psilocybin analytical standards, so in analytical chemistry I'll choose the maybe only legal option of datura's alkaloids), but, lucky me, of you check the controlled substances tables, you'll see that, even though they contains psilocybin, Panaeolus are perfectly growable.
SEMI-USEFUL PART: I'll try, then, to grow Panaeolus Goliat (the only strain whose spores are available for shipping from EU) and clone a single mushroom's mycelium. I would do everything at school, where there is a "thermal chamber" (used as incubator for Petri dishes) that I can use, since the part of program involving bacteria is usually finished until February and my exam is in June. I have made some picture of it (if you need higher higher resolution just ask):
 (That's to give an idea about dimensions. I'm ~1.70-80m)



So, my problem is: my teacher said that the temperature can go from room to ~50°C, and that's fine, but how could I regulate humidity and light? Is it possible? Is there anything I should know about a professional incubator? Do you think there's anything to say I didn't mentioned?
Thank you very much, Peace, love and psilocybin
-------------------- SPREAD KNOWLEDGE
|
PinPornProducer
Buy the ticket, take the ride



Registered: 08/23/14
Posts: 9,981
Loc: Rocky Point R.I
Last seen: 6 years, 24 days
|
Re: Scholastic cultivation of Panaeolus in big "Petri dish incubator" [photo] [Re: BlueFire_ita] 1
#23987504 - 01/06/17 07:07 PM (7 years, 24 days ago) |
|
|
Imo getting that thing to growing conditions would be way more work than its worth.
|
berlinmyc


Registered: 12/21/15
Posts: 98
|
Re: Scholastic cultivation of Panaeolus in big "Petri dish incubator" [photo] [Re: PinPornProducer]
#23988193 - 01/06/17 11:37 PM (7 years, 24 days ago) |
|
|
Are you going to fruit in the incubator or just colonize agar and spawn?
|
blindingleaf
blue collar underworld


Registered: 07/19/13
Posts: 22,008
Loc: sub-surface unseen
|
Re: Scholastic cultivation of Panaeolus in big "Petri dish incubator" [photo] [Re: berlinmyc]
#23988576 - 01/07/17 05:32 AM (7 years, 23 days ago) |
|
|
hey OP, all that stuff is really cool, but beware of maybe accidentally growing mold in that incubator and it infecting other projects unrelated (if any are in there)
the hood will be nice to have for transfers, but the incubator might do more harm then good.
don't forget that besides light, humidity, and temperature, co2 will play a role in performance. those incubators look like there will be enough light penetration without adding more inside.
measuring the exact PPM isn't necessary to succeed, but would be interesting if u could. the important part is recognizing that air should be moved around and replaced either by active or passive means during fruiting.
-------------------- A few thoughts on cultivation MICROBIAL HUSBANDRY!!!! The whole is greater than the sum of its parts
|
BlueFire_ita
Newbie

Registered: 12/07/16
Posts: 9
Loc: Italy
Last seen: 6 years, 9 months
|
Re: Scholastic cultivation of Panaeolus in big "Petri dish incubator" [photo] [Re: berlinmyc]
#23988582 - 01/07/17 05:38 AM (7 years, 23 days ago) |
|
|
Quote:
PinPornProducer said: Imo getting that thing to growing conditions would be way more work than its worth.
I agree, but since it's a school work and, mostly, since I have to pay everything, I thought that it should look professional and be as cheap as possible... Anyway: I can easily isolate the 2 half puff the incubator.
Quote:
berlinmyc said: Are you going to fruit in the incubator or just colonize agar and spawn?
I have read that having mushrooms directly from agar is quite advanced, and since its my first attempt to grow something (thank you law, we all love you...) my idea was fruiting un the incubator and then use agar to make some clones of a random lucky shroom. (Which I'll make (or not) fruit depending on how much time I'll have before the exams.
-------------------- SPREAD KNOWLEDGE
|
blindingleaf
blue collar underworld


Registered: 07/19/13
Posts: 22,008
Loc: sub-surface unseen
|
Re: Scholastic cultivation of Panaeolus in big "Petri dish incubator" [photo] [Re: BlueFire_ita]
#23988589 - 01/07/17 05:44 AM (7 years, 23 days ago) |
|
|
I've never seen pans pin on agar personally, and I have tried.
I know Muda has a pic of it happening, and maybe stonesun. so its not that it won't happen, its just that u might be waiting a long time if ur going that route.
if thats the case, u won't need to worry about co2 or humidity. just light and temp
-------------------- A few thoughts on cultivation MICROBIAL HUSBANDRY!!!! The whole is greater than the sum of its parts
|
BlueFire_ita
Newbie

Registered: 12/07/16
Posts: 9
Loc: Italy
Last seen: 6 years, 9 months
|
Re: Scholastic cultivation of Panaeolus in big "Petri dish incubator" [photo] [Re: blindingleaf]
#23988597 - 01/07/17 05:50 AM (7 years, 23 days ago) |
|
|
Quote:
blindingleaf said: hey OP, all that stuff is really cool, but beware of maybe accidentally growing mold in that incubator and it infecting other projects unrelated (if any are in there)
As I said: it will be unused from February, so it's fine
Quote:
blindingleaf said: the hood will be nice to have for transfers, but the incubator might do more harm then good.
Luckily we have a hood and I hadn't thought about it when I was planning! Thanks
Quote:
blindingleaf said: don't forget that besides light, humidity, and temperature, co2 will play a role in performance. those incubators look like there will be enough light penetration without adding more inside.
measuring the exact PPM isn't necessary to succeed, but would be interesting if u could. the important part is recognizing that air should be moved around and replaced either by active or passive means during fruiting.
I think there's sort of a valve (the little thing on left wall), so if I find a way to move air it won't be a problem. I'm also sure that inside it's completely dark: if light goes inside it can be easily gradually avoided until I reach the desired illumination, but it looks like I have to add it. Sadly I think I have no way to measure CO2 PPM neither control it (until reading your post I didn't even think it was so important). It's such a huge problem or I can solve it?
Thanks everyone, it means a lot for me
-------------------- SPREAD KNOWLEDGE
|
BlueFire_ita
Newbie

Registered: 12/07/16
Posts: 9
Loc: Italy
Last seen: 6 years, 9 months
|
Re: Scholastic cultivation of Panaeolus in big "Petri dish incubator" [photo] [Re: blindingleaf]
#23988599 - 01/07/17 05:53 AM (7 years, 23 days ago) |
|
|
Quote:
blindingleaf said: I've never seen pans pin on agar personally, and I have tried.
I know Muda has a pic of it happening, and maybe stonesun. so its not that it won't happen, its just that u might be waiting a long time if ur going that route.
if thats the case, u won't need to worry about co2 or humidity. just light and temp
That's exactly what I was thinking about: I'll try to avoid too complicated things. I could at least pot few spores in agar just turned see what happens letting them near the rest of the cultivation
-------------------- SPREAD KNOWLEDGE
|
blindingleaf
blue collar underworld


Registered: 07/19/13
Posts: 22,008
Loc: sub-surface unseen
|
Re: Scholastic cultivation of Panaeolus in big "Petri dish incubator" [photo] [Re: BlueFire_ita]
#23988634 - 01/07/17 06:26 AM (7 years, 23 days ago) |
|
|
the user "macmerdin" has a TEK for small scale pan grows basically using the ideas from PF TEK with some modifications-check that out, lots of success
maybe a clever fellow like yourself could talk the teacher into allowing that kind of approach rather than just plates. similar in size and scale, but for sure more productive.
"pastywhyte" also has an easy agar TEK with PP5 containers that are even smaller than 1/2 pints. an unassuming teacher wouldn't know the difference between dark colored deep agar or bulk substrates in those containers.
maybe worth a try....you know....for uhhh...s...s...ss..cience ?
cause as far as legality goes (and im no lawyer) I don't really think a judge will discriminate if there were fruits grown on an agar plate or there were fruits grown in a jar....if it fruits, its still a mushroom right?
-------------------- A few thoughts on cultivation MICROBIAL HUSBANDRY!!!! The whole is greater than the sum of its parts
|
berlinmyc


Registered: 12/21/15
Posts: 98
|
Re: Scholastic cultivation of Panaeolus in big "Petri dish incubator" [photo] [Re: blindingleaf]
#23989257 - 01/07/17 11:26 AM (7 years, 23 days ago) |
|
|
You may need to figure out how to get some fresh air if you fruit it in there. I think it's awesome that your highschool will have hallucinogenic mushrooms growing in it. Fine work.
|
blindingleaf
blue collar underworld


Registered: 07/19/13
Posts: 22,008
Loc: sub-surface unseen
|
Re: Scholastic cultivation of Panaeolus in big "Petri dish incubator" [photo] [Re: berlinmyc]
#23989424 - 01/07/17 12:24 PM (7 years, 23 days ago) |
|
|
Oh Fuck!
I thought he said FINISHED high school 
I'm an idiot.
Don't grow drugs in High school, just smoke them. Growing is for adults
-------------------- A few thoughts on cultivation MICROBIAL HUSBANDRY!!!! The whole is greater than the sum of its parts
|
blackout


Registered: 07/16/00
Posts: 5,266
Last seen: 2 months, 25 days
|
Re: Scholastic cultivation of Panaeolus in big "Petri dish incubator" [photo] [Re: BlueFire_ita]
#23989910 - 01/07/17 03:47 PM (7 years, 23 days ago) |
|
|
Quote:
BlueFire_ita said: lucky me, of you check the controlled substances tables, you'll see that, even though they contains psilocybin, Panaeolus are perfectly growable.
can anybody else confirm if this is true? I never heard much about Italy. Wiki would suggest it is illegal but decriminalised.
Some countries had lists of species, but other laws could come into effect too.
|
PinPornProducer
Buy the ticket, take the ride



Registered: 08/23/14
Posts: 9,981
Loc: Rocky Point R.I
Last seen: 6 years, 24 days
|
Re: Scholastic cultivation of Panaeolus in big "Petri dish incubator" [photo] [Re: blackout]
#23989939 - 01/07/17 03:55 PM (7 years, 23 days ago) |
|
|
Pretty sure any psylocybin/psylocin containing fungi are illegal in the U.S
|
enlightenment
alchemist


Registered: 08/09/09
Posts: 1,647
Loc: Europe
Last seen: 8 months, 22 days
|
Re: Scholastic cultivation of Panaeolus in big "Petri dish incubator" [photo] [Re: PinPornProducer]
#23989950 - 01/07/17 03:58 PM (7 years, 23 days ago) |
|
|
Quote:
PinPornProducer said: Pretty sure any psylocybin/psylocin containing fungi are illegal in the U.S
The same here in Germany. But he lives in Italy. It might be different there. Maybe they ban the species and not the substances.
|
BlueFire_ita
Newbie

Registered: 12/07/16
Posts: 9
Loc: Italy
Last seen: 6 years, 9 months
|
Re: Scholastic cultivation of Panaeolus in big "Petri dish incubator" [photo] [Re: enlightenment]
#23991688 - 01/08/17 06:57 AM (7 years, 22 days ago) |
|
|
Quote:
blindingleaf said: the user "macmerdin" has a TEK for small scale pan grows basically using the ideas from PF TEK with some modifications-check that out, lots of success
maybe a clever fellow like yourself could talk the teacher into allowing that kind of approach rather than just plates. similar in size and scale, but for sure more productive.
"pastywhyte" also has an easy agar TEK with PP5 containers that are even smaller than 1/2 pints. an unassuming teacher wouldn't know the difference between dark colored deep agar or bulk substrates in those containers.
maybe worth a try....you know....for uhhh...s...s...ss..cience ?
cause as far as legality goes (and im no lawyer) I don't really think a judge will discriminate if there were fruits grown on an agar plate or there were fruits grown in a jar....if it fruits, its still a mushroom right?
Are you suggesting to grow them in different ways and see the results? Maybe, if it looks possible. Are their teks in archive?
About Ialian law: yes Panaeolus are perfectly legal, then I can grow them in school (it's pretty exciting doing that, it's definitely unusual and a thing thath fits my interest).
Italian governmen website, page about illegal substances in general: http://www.salute.gov.it/portale/temi/p2_6.jsp?id=3729&area=sostanzeStupefacenti&menu=vuoto strictly illicit substsances: http://www.salute.gov.it/imgs/C_17_pagineAree_3729_listaFile_itemName_0_file.pdf "Funghi del genere Strofaria, Conocybe, Psilocybe", "Psilocibina" and "Psilocina". Nothing about Panaeolus
-------------------- SPREAD KNOWLEDGE
|
blindingleaf
blue collar underworld


Registered: 07/19/13
Posts: 22,008
Loc: sub-surface unseen
|
Re: Scholastic cultivation of Panaeolus in big "Petri dish incubator" [photo] [Re: BlueFire_ita]
#23991698 - 01/08/17 07:10 AM (7 years, 22 days ago) |
|
|
it don't change the fact ur in high school bud.
seriously, go get laid a lot and smoke some drugs. thats what high school is for. later on, when ur staring at a few overdrawn bank accounts and ur baby momma is hustling you, thats when u make the next move in a country where its legal to do so
-------------------- A few thoughts on cultivation MICROBIAL HUSBANDRY!!!! The whole is greater than the sum of its parts
|
foragedfungus



Registered: 09/30/13
Posts: 1,849
Loc: out there
|
Re: Scholastic cultivation of Panaeolus in big "Petri dish incubator" [photo] [Re: BlueFire_ita]
#23991705 - 01/08/17 07:24 AM (7 years, 22 days ago) |
|
|
My understanding of the italian language may be lacking, but I think "Psilocibina" and "Psilocina" translate to the active chemicals psilocybin and psilocin. (which are found in the pans you want to grow.)
In the pdf you linked they list the chemical names "Psilocibina-diidrogeno fosfato del 3-[2-(dimetilamino)etil]indol-4-olo", "Psilocina- 3-[2-(dimetilamino)etil]indol-4-olo"
Pretty sure that means Psilocybin -[3-(2-Dimethylaminoethyl)-1H-indol-4-yl] dihydrogen phosphate Psilocin-4-hydroxy-N,N-dimethyltryptamine
You may want to consult a lawyer before starting this project.
|
blackout


Registered: 07/16/00
Posts: 5,266
Last seen: 2 months, 25 days
|
Re: Scholastic cultivation of Panaeolus in big "Petri dish incubator" [photo] [Re: BlueFire_ita]
#23991930 - 01/08/17 09:38 AM (7 years, 22 days ago) |
|
|
Quote:
BlueFire_ita said: About Ialian law: yes Panaeolus are perfectly legal,
If you think they are "perfectly legal" I would wonder what you think is a grey area.
If they really are "perfectly legal" I would expect to see them openly on sale in many of the head shops in Italy, you could take clones of them and not even bother with spores, or possibly get spores from the fresh or dry ones on sale.
|
berlinmyc


Registered: 12/21/15
Posts: 98
|
Re: Scholastic cultivation of Panaeolus in big "Petri dish incubator" [photo] [Re: blindingleaf]
#23992825 - 01/08/17 03:52 PM (7 years, 22 days ago) |
|
|
Quote:
blindingleaf said: it don't change the fact ur in high school bud.
seriously, go get laid a lot and smoke some drugs. thats what high school is for. later on, when ur staring at a few overdrawn bank accounts and ur baby momma is hustling you, thats when u make the next move in a country where its legal to do so
I think it's good to grow at that age. I believe Paul Stamets did and it was illegal. any involvement in illegal drugs is an active protest against unjust laws. Bluefire does your teacher know that it is psychoactive?
|
Panarchist
Cyanescendant



Registered: 04/02/16
Posts: 432
Loc: Copeland
Last seen: 7 months, 17 days
|
Re: Scholastic cultivation of Panaeolus in big "Petri dish incubator" [photo] [Re: blackout]
#23993749 - 01/08/17 08:45 PM (7 years, 22 days ago) |
|
|
i highly doubt that Italy would have laws against psilocybin/psilocin mushrooms yet somehow exempt panaeolus species from that law. it would be pretty awesome if somehow it was the case though. due to the fact that i have italian ancestry supposedly i can get fast-tracked for citizenship.
--------------------
|
BlueFire_ita
Newbie

Registered: 12/07/16
Posts: 9
Loc: Italy
Last seen: 6 years, 9 months
|
Re: Scholastic cultivation of Panaeolus in big "Petri dish incubator" [photo] [Re: Panarchist]
#23994178 - 01/09/17 12:13 AM (7 years, 22 days ago) |
|
|
Quote:
foragedfungus said: My understanding of the italian language may be lacking, but I think "Psilocibina" and "Psilocina" translate to the active chemicals psilocybin and psilocin. (which are found in the pans you want to grow.)
In the pdf you linked they list the chemical names "Psilocibina-diidrogeno fosfato del 3-[2-(dimetilamino)etil]indol-4-olo", "Psilocina- 3-[2-(dimetilamino)etil]indol-4-olo"
Pretty sure that means Psilocybin -[3-(2-Dimethylaminoethyl)-1H-indol-4-yl] dihydrogen phosphate Psilocin-4-hydroxy-N,N-dimethyltryptamine
You may want to consult a lawyer before starting this project.
Correct. It's like DMT: the substance is illegal but the plants containing it can be grown or possesed without any consequence, since there are no mimosas or acacias written there (pratica example: you can order mimosas hostilis and drink ayahuasca (technically you couldn't, since its written that substances and preparations containing that are both illegal, but thanks to Santo Daime it's now legal) but not extract DMT and smoke it.
Quote:
blackout said:
Quote:
BlueFire_ita said: About Ialian law: yes Panaeolus are perfectly legal,
If you think they are "perfectly legal" I would wonder what you think is a grey area.
If they really are "perfectly legal" I would expect to see them openly on sale in many of the head shops in Italy, you could take clones of them and not even bother with spores, or possibly get spores from the fresh or dry ones on sale.
Ok, I admit it's grey area. They're not sold because they're not socially accepted at all and bureaucracy is something insane even to pay taxes or sell pizzas (just Google "Italian bureaucracy" and look yourself). Moreover there aren't many headshops since the average policeman has only one working neuron (we have tons of police jokes, and most of them are sadly, if not true, plausible) and they make their life impossible. Spores and seeds are even another thing, since there aren't any principles in them. You can buy grow kits and spores (or, at least, they're not controlled) but not already-inoculated grow kits, cause mycelium counts as mushroom for the law.
Quote:
berlinmyc said: Bluefire does your teacher know that it is psychoactive?
Quoting his words: "As far it's legal, you don't harm yourself or other people and I don't have to pay for expensive stuff you can do everything you want". He's a "crazy scientist", he always wants to try something new (and because of that I'm one of the 5 (out of 25 people in my classroom) who always understand him while he's teaching). He was pretty interested in it. He checked personally the file I sent you and said it was fine for him.
Quote:
Panarchist said: i highly doubt that Italy would have laws against psilocybin/psilocin mushrooms yet somehow exempt panaeolus species from that law. it would be pretty awesome if somehow it was the case though. due to the fact that i have italian ancestry supposedly i can get fast-tracked for citizenship.
They aren't actually exempted, I think that they just forgot it, and since who grows shrooms is usually a bit (<-- irony) smarter than who makes laws they didn't say "uh, excuse me... You forgot to me me one illegal". That is because it's spontaneous too, so it can be picked in the woods. Here a lot of users prefer hunting for shrooms (it's full of Psilocybe Semilanceata, not that they're legal).
I hope I clarified all your doubts (blindingleaf, sorry but I'm not the kind of guy who usually smoke things: I think I'll jump from nothing to psychedelics this summer), if so I'd try to stay in topic, since in June I'll have my exams and I need to make a flush and at least begin to clone one ("I have some "Petris" there in the lab, I can show you some" and "I wanted to clone one but I didn't" have a really different effect. Maybe it would be even better show them the dishes than DNA analysis which proves they're the same mushroom. More impact)
-------------------- SPREAD KNOWLEDGE
Edited by BlueFire_ita (01/09/17 09:48 AM)
|
BlueFire_ita
Newbie

Registered: 12/07/16
Posts: 9
Loc: Italy
Last seen: 6 years, 9 months
|
Re: Scholastic cultivation of Panaeolus in big "Petri dish incubator" [photo] [Re: BlueFire_ita]
#23997079 - 01/10/17 12:40 AM (7 years, 21 days ago) |
|
|
Since I hate just writing "up" (it looks quite spammy), here's some new photis, in case they're useful 
 Valve (outside) dimension
 Valve (inside) dimension... And there's a plug on the other side!
 I asked the technicians what is this for, and they answered it's probably to change humidity or CO2.
Well, one of the problem seems to be solved.
Edit. My teacher said it's probably to change the oil heating resistance (don't know English name) are immersed in
-------------------- SPREAD KNOWLEDGE
Edited by BlueFire_ita (01/10/17 01:17 AM)
|
|