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Invisibleblackdragon999
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Does Science disprove the existence of God?
    #23985245 - 01/05/17 09:28 PM (7 years, 24 days ago)

Disproving something supernatural is easy if you can prove that it is a natural thing (e.g. magic tricks). In reference to a supreme being; If God is only in your head...that is a natural process, not supernatural. Religion, in the context of a particular system of faith or worship has given people "rules" for understanding the supernatural as they believe it to be. Burning bushes and resurrections aside, lying to people is also a natural process, but on the other side of the curtain there is the supernatural and the unknowable.

Some Christians and a select few other religious groups have had disagreements with Darwinian Evolution partially because it changes the narrative of what they were taught their whole life (A slight exception with Old-Earth creationists). In many cases it seems that the discussions about this result in not much more than an exchange of insults. Since I am much more of a Historian than a Scientist I really don't have a dog in this fight. 

Religion at the end of the day is the Historical approach to understanding the natural world and it provided most of the explanations for the questions people had for thousands of years, and the answers to those questions were almost always attributed to the supernatural.     

Even though Religious beliefs are often used in attempts to discredit/disprove Scientific Theories they are really two separate fields of study. 
Do you believe Science can be used to disprove the existence of a supreme being?


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Offlinebeforethedawn
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Re: Does Science disprove the existence of God? [Re: blackdragon999] * 2
    #23985690 - 01/06/17 02:17 AM (7 years, 24 days ago)

What if what is asking the question is exactly the Supreme Being the scientist is looking for?

Science has created this whole 'external world' concept where 'somewhere else' is where things are, including the truth, including life.

It's a mistake, a huge mistake, and only by the individual returning to God by being That and deconditioning its mind in order to see the wealth of dimensions God's bliss creates for Him, can life actually be lived and accessed.

The whole world is essentially a set up. It's arbitrary, at least.

So no, science has no jurisdiction over your experience of pure consciousness.

That is life, that is the ride.

Everything else is, as McKenna says, a whistling past the graveyard.


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Hostile humankind
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Invisibleblackdragon999
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Re: Does Science disprove the existence of God? [Re: beforethedawn]
    #23985709 - 01/06/17 02:33 AM (7 years, 24 days ago)

Quote:

beforethedawn said:
What if what is asking the question is exactly the Supreme Being the scientist is looking for?

Science has created this whole 'external world' concept where 'somewhere else' is where things are, including the truth, including life.

It's a mistake, a huge mistake, and only by the individual returning to God by being That and deconditioning its mind in order to see the wealth of dimensions God's bliss creates for Him, can life actually be lived and accessed.

The whole world is essentially a set up. It's arbitrary, at least.

So no, science has no jurisdiction over your experience of pure consciousness.

That is life, that is the ride.

Everything else is, as McKenna says, a whistling past the graveyard.




I agree, and for me at least... external knowledge is completely different than internal knowledge...that is why I don't bother to debate it anymore.


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OfflineLucisM
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Re: Does Science disprove the existence of God? [Re: blackdragon999]
    #23985866 - 01/06/17 06:43 AM (7 years, 24 days ago)

Quote:

blackdragon999 said:

Do you believe Science can be used to disprove the existence of a supreme being?





I don't think science can disprove a supreme being, at least not yet.  I think science can illuminate the things man thought gods were responsible for, for example ancient people say a volcano explodes so the gods must be mad, well we can see it has nothing to do with gods through science.


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Invisibleblackdragon999
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Re: Does Science disprove the existence of God? [Re: Lucis]
    #23985969 - 01/06/17 08:25 AM (7 years, 24 days ago)

Quote:

Fennario said:
Quote:

blackdragon999 said:

Do you believe Science can be used to disprove the existence of a supreme being?





I don't think science can disprove a supreme being, at least not yet.  I think science can illuminate the things man thought gods were responsible for, for example ancient people say a volcano explodes so the gods must be mad, well we can see it has nothing to do with gods through science.




That goes back a little bit to what I was saying:
Quote:

Disproving something supernatural is easy if you can prove that it is a natural thing (e.g. magic tricks).



I am still waiting for the efforts in CERN to progress further... I am afraid that they may find something that they won't like.


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Offlinedeff
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Re: Does Science disprove the existence of God? [Re: Lucis] * 2
    #23986059 - 01/06/17 09:07 AM (7 years, 24 days ago)

Quote:

Fennario said:
Quote:

blackdragon999 said:

Do you believe Science can be used to disprove the existence of a supreme being?





I don't think science can disprove a supreme being, at least not yet.  I think science can illuminate the things man thought gods were responsible for, for example ancient people say a volcano explodes so the gods must be mad, well we can see it has nothing to do with gods through science.




I think it is hard to truly disprove anything. Some views of existence say that the physical reality we perceive is on the level of effect, whereas the spiritual dimension that sustains it is on the level of cause. Not that I have any beliefs regarding volcanoes, but understanding the physical processes involved do not necessarily negate a spiritual component - much like understanding the apparent function of something in a dream does not negate the fact that the casual function is illusory from the perspective of it being dependent on the deeper causes of the mind creating the dream. The idea that the physical reality we perceive with our commonly accepted senses is all there is, which would be a necessary axiom to disprove things based on physical observation, is simply an assumption. So I guess in the end, I remain skeptical of people's skepticism :smile:


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OfflineLucisM
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Re: Does Science disprove the existence of God? [Re: blackdragon999] * 1
    #23986183 - 01/06/17 10:18 AM (7 years, 24 days ago)

I just wanted to say that I find that science and spiritual go hand in hand, I guess you could say my views are a bit unorthodox.:wink:


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InvisibleAsante
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Re: Does Science disprove the existence of God? [Re: Lucis] * 1
    #23987094 - 01/06/17 04:58 PM (7 years, 24 days ago)

Quote:

Fennario said:
I just wanted to say that I find that science and spiritual go hand in hand, I guess you could say my views are a bit unorthodox.:wink:





That's the only way to go. Science is one eye and spirituality the other eye. If you only use one of them, no matter which one, you don't have 3D vision.


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OfflineBlueCoyote
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Re: Does Science disprove the existence of God? [Re: blackdragon999] * 1
    #23988705 - 01/07/17 07:42 AM (7 years, 23 days ago)

First of all science would have to know for what it is looking for. Science needs the exact definition of something before it can try to proof it.

It is impossible for science to prove that there is not 'something more' adding to the results. Means that if you can exclude all other factors in an experiment and have identified all influencing variables, you would like to say that there is nothing more adding up to the results. But who says that you really have excluded all other factors only because your experiment went the same way in 1 Millions of tries ? It still can be 1 more try to have maybe another result. Besides that, the experiment is still VERY specific and limited as all the factors have to best kept constant, so the experiment is repeatable. These are lab conditions which in reality rarely keep the factors constant.
Therefore normally science says it's impossible to prove something is generally 'not existing', even if it is well defined. [see "Proving a Negative Generally (Proving Contingent Negative Existentials)"]

The other problem is that, even if science identifies all the factors, there still can be the original motivational factors be hiding behind them. Maybe just being masked by the obvious factors to our perspective.  Maybe one original factor influences more than one other secondary factor we use for the experiment, still remains hidden and only becomes obvious in a very specific combination of those 'secondary' factors we are measuring and are missing in the setup of our experiment.

Science can only say: under these and those condition doing this will result in that.

In fact for me, science will help to prove the existence of G*D, if we can find a way to define g*d well enough :wink:

Sorry for my language, I'm not english native, but I still hope you can get the (very condensed) ideas. I try to elaborate more if it's too hard to understand.


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Invisiblelaughingdog
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Re: Does Science disprove the existence of God? [Re: blackdragon999] * 1
    #23990985 - 01/07/17 09:17 PM (7 years, 22 days ago)

the basis of the question itself is misguided
"... the existence of God..."
people mix up categories constantly

Objects have characteristics: density, color, smell etc. and finally the characteristic of existing

Fantasies, such as purple unicorns, have no existence. They are characterized by nonexistence.

Abstractions, such as numbers, do not have characteristics such as location, density, etc
hence the category existent / non existent  does not apply to them any more than the category magnetic / non magnetic does.

Space, time, and awareness are all more abstract than objects, yet they are the context in which objects manifest. So abstractions cannot be dismissed like fantasies. Objects are content.

Awareness and attention are even more abstract than space, time and perceptions and thought.

Awareness and attention are context, perceptions and thought are contents.

God is also a term for context, or that which is abstract, hence the category existent / non existent  does not apply to this term. That God is a term for context is obvious because all objects are said to manifest within God or God's universe.

Due to vast amounts of unconscious emotional baggage attached to the subject, many humans fail to grasp or even suspect this simple obvious fact.

The ancient Egyptians seem to have been the most literal people as they put actual models of animals they wanted with themselves in the afterlife in their tombs. It seems children are often rather literal. That some of this human tendency carries over into adulthood when matters of belief about death, which frightens many, are involved is perhaps not surprising, given the general irrationality and emotionality of people.


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Offlinebigdoodie
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Re: Does Science disprove the existence of God? [Re: blackdragon999] * 1
    #23991190 - 01/07/17 10:26 PM (7 years, 22 days ago)

No, science actually proves that God exists but that information is withheld from the public because of the Illuminatis private agenda...

God is defined (as well in the dictionary) as, the supreme reality, it/he is not alive nor dead, he/it is both unconscious and conscious, as well as the root of nothingness which doesn't actually exist ("nothing" is simply an idea). God is nothing further than objective reality but it most certainly is a source that is valuable in the spiritual realm and is the basis of all religions, the true human nature, but In science the only thing that is quantifiable is consciousness and the division between matter and anti-matter, nothing else exists, not even God


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Offlinealfonseelrick
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Re: Does Science disprove the existence of God? [Re: bigdoodie]
    #23991566 - 01/08/17 03:17 AM (7 years, 22 days ago)

science doesnt prove or disprove much.... science is only a method of disinformation nowadays.


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Im just a fictional character everything stated by me is purely fictional and simply lies, those who like me are liars who where bribed or blackmailed in some way Muahahaha :stoned:


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Invisibleblackdragon999
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Re: Does Science disprove the existence of God? [Re: alfonseelrick]
    #24076254 - 02/08/17 11:04 PM (6 years, 11 months ago)

Quote:

alfonseelrick said:
science doesnt prove or disprove much.... science is only a method of disinformation nowadays.




Apparently it is being used mostly as a form of information politics.


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InvisibleThe Blind Ass
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Re: Does Science disprove the existence of God? [Re: blackdragon999]
    #24076313 - 02/08/17 11:34 PM (6 years, 11 months ago)

Mu


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OfflineHalayudha
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Re: Does Science disprove the existence of God? [Re: The Blind Ass]
    #24076319 - 02/08/17 11:37 PM (6 years, 11 months ago)

I did not see it coming, but, nice :smile:



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Call me not rebel, though { here at every word
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If I no longer hail thee  { King and Lord
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Invisibleblackdragon999
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Re: Does Science disprove the existence of God? [Re: The Blind Ass]
    #24076376 - 02/09/17 12:00 AM (6 years, 11 months ago)

Quote:

The Blind Ass said:
Mu




There is no such thing.


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OfflineHalayudha
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Re: Does Science disprove the existence of God? [Re: blackdragon999]
    #24076482 - 02/09/17 01:19 AM (6 years, 11 months ago)

Now we are getting this thing heated up.

Jump in, Lunar, with a nice refrain?

We are the Mutes who say Mu.


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Call me not rebel, though { here at every word
                          {in what I sing
If I no longer hail thee  { King and Lord
                          { Lord and King


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InvisibleAsante
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Re: Does Science disprove the existence of God? [Re: Halayudha]
    #24076540 - 02/09/17 02:26 AM (6 years, 11 months ago)

Whats your definition of God?

Mine is that the Universe IS the God, that everything even a grain of sand, is endowed with consciousness and a degree of sentience and that everything is a universe upon its own.

Some interpretations of quantum physics point in that direction.

So, bearded guy on birkenstocks on a cloud? Probably not? Divine Universe? Possibly.


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Omnicyclion.org
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InvisibleThe Blind Ass
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Re: Does Science disprove the existence of God? [Re: Asante]
    #24076736 - 02/09/17 06:55 AM (6 years, 11 months ago)

Pan...god using god to look for god in god with god for god as god by god, good god its everything not 1 thing excluded!


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Give me Liberty caps -or- give me Death caps


Edited by The Blind Ass (02/09/17 09:26 AM)


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OfflineDuncan Rowhl
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Re: Does Science disprove the existence of God? [Re: blackdragon999]
    #24076930 - 02/09/17 09:24 AM (6 years, 11 months ago)

The supreme being owns science.

Science, together with time and space become a thing of nothing when perception ceases and eternal takes the lead that it has always retained.


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Invisiblehowsyournaggerdoin
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Re: Does Science disprove the existence of God? [Re: Duncan Rowhl]
    #24076945 - 02/09/17 09:30 AM (6 years, 11 months ago)

Does Religion prove the existence of God ?

No


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OfflineFun-Gee
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Re: Does Science disprove the existence of God? [Re: howsyournaggerdoin]
    #24082639 - 02/11/17 04:40 PM (6 years, 11 months ago)

No,  science doesn't deal with the supernatural.  But it certainly makes it to look bloody unlikely


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InvisibleDieCommie

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Re: Does Science disprove the existence of God? [Re: blackdragon999]
    #24082731 - 02/11/17 05:16 PM (6 years, 11 months ago)

Prove and disprove are tough words to fulfill.  I would phrase it as, Modern scientific theories are necessarily incompatible with every god man has come up with.  The only god that is compatible with modern scientific theories is the "god of the gaps" which nobody really worships, who's realm is constantly shrinking, and is only used as a debate tool against agnostics and atheists.


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OfflineLucisM
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Re: Does Science disprove the existence of God? [Re: DieCommie]
    #24082880 - 02/11/17 06:16 PM (6 years, 11 months ago)

If I have an experience which I might categorize as being spiritual in nature, and I think god has touched me in that moment, does it matter if the god that I encountered is all a product of my mind?  It doesn't make that experiences any less true.  It doesn't make that "god" any less real.

Now if I go out and tell others that god has touched me, and that I am the mouthpiece of god so others should listen, then we have a problem.


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InvisibleDieCommie

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Re: Does Science disprove the existence of God? [Re: Lucis]
    #24083181 - 02/11/17 08:38 PM (6 years, 11 months ago)

I would never want to deny your experience.  I would reject your label of god though.  Thats just a new,  made up definition of god.  People do that, they redefine god to appease their beliefs about their experiences.  In a world where being an atheist is a terrible thing one must find something,  anything,  to play a god-like role for them.

Your experience is real,  undeniable.  Calling it god is supposing extra above that.


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InvisibleThe Blind Ass
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Re: Does Science disprove the existence of God? [Re: DieCommie]
    #24083184 - 02/11/17 08:40 PM (6 years, 11 months ago)

I wonder who sold you on that idea.


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OfflineDuncan Rowhl
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Re: Does Science disprove the existence of God? [Re: Lucis]
    #24084327 - 02/12/17 10:37 AM (6 years, 11 months ago)

Quote:

Fennario said:
If I have an experience which I might categorize as being spiritual in nature, and I think god has touched me in that moment, does it matter if the god that I encountered is all a product of my mind?  It doesn't make that experiences any less true.  It doesn't make that "god" any less real.

Now if I go out and tell others that god has touched me, and that I am the mouthpiece of god so others should listen, then we have a problem.




If God is everything, then he is also the mind.

You wouldn't teach as an exclusive person of God.  You'd teach knowing that everyone is God

That knowing would demonstrate that you aren't focused on yourself as an assumed almighty, which, in a lesser form, is generally the problem with those who don't surrender the ego to 'see'.


Edited by Duncan Rowhl (02/12/17 10:50 AM)


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OfflineBlueCoyote
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Re: Does Science disprove the existence of God? [Re: Duncan Rowhl]
    #24093112 - 02/15/17 03:09 PM (6 years, 11 months ago)

We are all tiny little wabbits, pretending to be G:heart:D, in a world of G:sun:d(/s), by being g*d. :fairy:


Edited by BlueCoyote (02/15/17 03:22 PM)


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Invisibledemiu5
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Re: Does Science disprove the existence of God? [Re: beforethedawn]
    #24094403 - 02/16/17 03:23 AM (6 years, 11 months ago)

Quote:

beforethedawn said:
Science has created this whole 'external world' concept where 'somewhere else' is where things are, including the truth, including life.







really?  i view it completely the opposite.  science tries to bring the focus on this world, this body, this universe, this experience. kind of like having arms/hands and legs/feet to swim in/with/against an ocean, as opposed to having little or no means to move about as one desires, to explore or change course.

i feel religion introduces and emphasizes something external, something "somewhere else", where something or things are "higher" than "we" are or are "more progressed" or has some value placed on them that is not placed on us




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InvisibleDark_Star
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Re: Does Science disprove the existence of God? [Re: blackdragon999]
    #24094604 - 02/16/17 06:31 AM (6 years, 11 months ago)

No, science does not disprove god at all. What it does, is show that all of this is possible without divine intervention/intelligent design. Doesn't mean there aren't other forces at work. Atheists of course, miss this point & falsely claim that science disproves god. Same way that christians for example, claim that the Bible provides that god is real. The reality is that none of us truly know. We believe what we believe, and that's fine. However, we don't truly know....probably never will. And anyone that claims to know without doubt is foolish & naive.


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Offlinebigdoodie
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Re: Does Science disprove the existence of God? [Re: blackdragon999]
    #24122523 - 02/26/17 11:54 PM (6 years, 10 months ago)

If the only thing that is truly quantifiable is conscious and the division between matter and antimatter, then God is not relevant to our existence. God is defined as the supreme reality, it is similar to how we use rules in mathematics to solve problems, this thing we call God evolved long after the existence of what we now call satan or hell, it is training wheels for the human race and aliens alike, most likely held in place by mass belief throughout the cosmos, our belief in something is what allows it to become "real". Try perceiving the world as if you are the last one alive, you will see that guilt and shame is an illusion, as well as truth, forgiveness, and freedom.


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OfflineMarkostheGnostic
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Re: Does Science disprove the existence of God? [Re: blackdragon999]
    #24124654 - 02/27/17 08:11 PM (6 years, 10 months ago)

No. Comparing apples to oranges (or perhaps hard-balls to apples). :wink:


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γνῶθι σαὐτόν - Gnothi Seauton - Know Thyself


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