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KauaiOrca
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Re: The Gnostic Turn In Secular Society [Re: blingbling]
#24015077 - 01/16/17 03:34 PM (7 years, 14 days ago) |
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I'm not convinced at all that people, in general, found more or less meaning in their lives years ago than they are today. I think life was harder in the past with more work and a lot less time for entertainment and distraction.
Sure, there were groups that had a very active spiritual orientation like the HOPI for instance or tribes in Australia... But did the Romans find more meaning than we do? Did peasants who worked from the moment they awoke till the fell asleep find more meaning because of an oppressive church and priest class that ran the church in the town plaza?
I think there is a tendency we have to attribute things to the past that may or may not have occurred.
Personally, I find more meaning in my life now than I did 25 years ago when I spent less time with technology gizmos.
Religion, in the past, was a lot more like government than it was an inspiring experience for the masses. It was suppressive, brutally violent and unforgiving with non-believers.
-------------------- "The universe is endless, limitless and infinite. Any effort to define it's boundaries is an attempt to overcome ignorance. We are physical, mental and spiritual beings ... there is no beginning and there is no end. There is only memory. Our repeated loss of memory experiences create the illusion of beginnings and ends. Immortality is the ability to retain full memory through all consciousness transformations. Loss of memory is man's greatest curse and, in very real terms, death." -- Ancient Taoist Master
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blingbling
what you chicken stew?

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Re: The Gnostic Turn In Secular Society [Re: akira_akuma]
#24015078 - 01/16/17 03:34 PM (7 years, 14 days ago) |
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They have lost so much ground that it is hard to see them wining it back
-------------------- Kupo said: let's fuel the robots with psilocybin. cez said: everyone should smoke dmt for religion. dustinthewind13 said: euthanasia and prostitution should be legal and located in the same building. White Beard said: if you see the buddha on the road, rape him, then kill him. then rape him again.
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blingbling
what you chicken stew?

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Re: The Gnostic Turn In Secular Society [Re: KauaiOrca]
#24015090 - 01/16/17 03:37 PM (7 years, 14 days ago) |
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Don't get me wrong, I wouldn't trade places with some feudal peasant. But there was definitely a certain quality to their lives that we have lost. No matter how bad this life was, the next life is going to be glorious. Most of us can no longer say that. So we have lost that small bit of comfort. That's all I'm saying.
-------------------- Kupo said: let's fuel the robots with psilocybin. cez said: everyone should smoke dmt for religion. dustinthewind13 said: euthanasia and prostitution should be legal and located in the same building. White Beard said: if you see the buddha on the road, rape him, then kill him. then rape him again.
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KauaiOrca
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Re: The Gnostic Turn In Secular Society [Re: blingbling]
#24015097 - 01/16/17 03:39 PM (7 years, 14 days ago) |
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Quote:
blingbling said: Don't get me wrong, I wouldn't trade places with some feudal peasant. But there was definitely a certain quality to their lives that we have lost. No matter how bad this life was, the next life is going to be glorious. Most of us can no longer say that. So we have lost that small bit of comfort. That's all I'm saying.
So delusion about the afterlife gave them more meaning? Is that your point?
-------------------- "The universe is endless, limitless and infinite. Any effort to define it's boundaries is an attempt to overcome ignorance. We are physical, mental and spiritual beings ... there is no beginning and there is no end. There is only memory. Our repeated loss of memory experiences create the illusion of beginnings and ends. Immortality is the ability to retain full memory through all consciousness transformations. Loss of memory is man's greatest curse and, in very real terms, death." -- Ancient Taoist Master
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akira_akuma
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Re: The Gnostic Turn In Secular Society [Re: blingbling]
#24015100 - 01/16/17 03:40 PM (7 years, 14 days ago) |
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Quote:
blingbling said: They have lost so much ground that it is hard to see them wining it back 
i don't see it to be that hard. 
all they need to do is get the right guy in...essentially. i don't care about them "taking over" or anything...but i can see the resurgence of it, and it's not going to be pretty, nor is it, even at this stage. but that's bad enough. you say dying throes...i say, "watch the fucking sideshow", cause they ain't dead yet.
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akira_akuma
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Re: The Gnostic Turn In Secular Society [Re: KauaiOrca]
#24015102 - 01/16/17 03:41 PM (7 years, 14 days ago) |
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Quote:
KauaiOrca said:
So delusion about the afterlife gave them more meaning? Is that your point?
it is the illusions we give our children.
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KauaiOrca
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Re: The Gnostic Turn In Secular Society [Re: akira_akuma]
#24015115 - 01/16/17 03:43 PM (7 years, 14 days ago) |
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Quote:
akira_akuma said:
Quote:
KauaiOrca said:
So delusion about the afterlife gave them more meaning? Is that your point?
it is the illusions we give our children.
Promises, in an institutional way, of afterlife "riches" are, I believe, were an invention of the Romans to unify an empire and create a more obedient society that would go to war and make the sacrifices necessary in the name of Rome. Their hijacking of Christianity to meld their far flung pagan territories into a more obedient populace was brilliant but it definitely left a lasting mark on our species.
-------------------- "The universe is endless, limitless and infinite. Any effort to define it's boundaries is an attempt to overcome ignorance. We are physical, mental and spiritual beings ... there is no beginning and there is no end. There is only memory. Our repeated loss of memory experiences create the illusion of beginnings and ends. Immortality is the ability to retain full memory through all consciousness transformations. Loss of memory is man's greatest curse and, in very real terms, death." -- Ancient Taoist Master
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akira_akuma
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Re: The Gnostic Turn In Secular Society [Re: KauaiOrca]
#24015153 - 01/16/17 03:57 PM (7 years, 14 days ago) |
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and the Hebrews invented the concept of proliferating to increase the numbers in the fold, for war, for their God, whom they'd be risen by in the afterlife, after all time, save those who sin.
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KauaiOrca
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Re: The Gnostic Turn In Secular Society [Re: akira_akuma] 1
#24015159 - 01/16/17 03:59 PM (7 years, 14 days ago) |
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Quote:
akira_akuma said: and the Hebrews invented the concept of proliferating to increase the numbers in the fold, for war, for their God, whom they'd be risen by in the afterlife, after all time, save those who sin.
The Jewish concept of the afterlife was nowhere near as developed or attractive as the Christians. Heaven and hell, actually, get very little attention in the Torah or Old Testament ... Heaven, in the modern sense, is much more a creation of the Christian era than the Hebrews.
-------------------- "The universe is endless, limitless and infinite. Any effort to define it's boundaries is an attempt to overcome ignorance. We are physical, mental and spiritual beings ... there is no beginning and there is no end. There is only memory. Our repeated loss of memory experiences create the illusion of beginnings and ends. Immortality is the ability to retain full memory through all consciousness transformations. Loss of memory is man's greatest curse and, in very real terms, death." -- Ancient Taoist Master
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redgreenvines
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Re: The Gnostic Turn In Secular Society [Re: akira_akuma]
#24015164 - 01/16/17 04:01 PM (7 years, 14 days ago) |
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that's pretty convoluted, you sure you got that right? - any references?
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akira_akuma
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Re: The Gnostic Turn In Secular Society [Re: redgreenvines]
#24015173 - 01/16/17 04:06 PM (7 years, 14 days ago) |
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Quote:
KauaiOrca said:
Quote:
akira_akuma said: and the Hebrews invented the concept of proliferating to increase the numbers in the fold, for war, for their God, whom they'd be risen by in the afterlife, after all time, save those who sin.
The Jewish concept of the afterlife was nowhere near as developed or attractive as the Christians. Heaven and hell, actually, get very little attention in the Torah or Old Testament ... Heaven, in the modern sense, is much more a creation of the Christian era than the Hebrews.
yeah, i know, Sheol is basically another word for grave. it's just the fact of sitting in that dark place forever, that stay in the grave, that's basically Sheol.
until you are exhumed through Yahweh's great power.
Quote:
redgreenvines said: that's pretty convoluted, you sure you got that right? - any references?
i think the Bible makes it clear enough, doesn't it? 
you mean the "sin" part?
i mean, in the Hebrew they have more than one word that would translate into "sin". "sin" in this context, would be the later word for these type of "errors"; which is what it boils down to, essentially, sin = error. but in the Hebrew they have words for many different contexts of this type of "error" to God.
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KauaiOrca
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Re: The Gnostic Turn In Secular Society [Re: redgreenvines]
#24015191 - 01/16/17 04:13 PM (7 years, 14 days ago) |
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Quote:
redgreenvines said: that's pretty convoluted, you sure you got that right? - any references?
The bible?
-------------------- "The universe is endless, limitless and infinite. Any effort to define it's boundaries is an attempt to overcome ignorance. We are physical, mental and spiritual beings ... there is no beginning and there is no end. There is only memory. Our repeated loss of memory experiences create the illusion of beginnings and ends. Immortality is the ability to retain full memory through all consciousness transformations. Loss of memory is man's greatest curse and, in very real terms, death." -- Ancient Taoist Master
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redgreenvines
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Re: The Gnostic Turn In Secular Society [Re: KauaiOrca]
#24015225 - 01/16/17 04:25 PM (7 years, 14 days ago) |
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oh, new testament, riiight. never mind
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akira_akuma
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Re: The Gnostic Turn In Secular Society [Re: KauaiOrca]
#24015226 - 01/16/17 04:26 PM (7 years, 14 days ago) |
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PS: i will add that these things seem to be natural causes to illusory reality. but it's not exactly why we do these things.
why we do these things is alot more simple...and it's not because of death. i think there is a step above death.
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redgreenvines
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Re: The Gnostic Turn In Secular Society [Re: akira_akuma]
#24015245 - 01/16/17 04:32 PM (7 years, 14 days ago) |
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is that in the new testament too? I guess you guys are already Orthodox.
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akira_akuma
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Re: The Gnostic Turn In Secular Society [Re: redgreenvines]
#24015251 - 01/16/17 04:35 PM (7 years, 14 days ago) |
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listen, cease trying to stop-correct the flow into the depths of incision through the integument of the truth of the matter of the lies, redgreenvines, you can't deny, it's in your mind, and it's automatic, and you're human potential is inconsequential, no matter how hard you want to create waves, your erromatic grave.
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blingbling
what you chicken stew?

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Re: The Gnostic Turn In Secular Society [Re: KauaiOrca] 1
#24015288 - 01/16/17 04:55 PM (7 years, 14 days ago) |
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Quote:
KauaiOrca said:
Quote:
blingbling said: Don't get me wrong, I wouldn't trade places with some feudal peasant. But there was definitely a certain quality to their lives that we have lost. No matter how bad this life was, the next life is going to be glorious. Most of us can no longer say that. So we have lost that small bit of comfort. That's all I'm saying.
So delusion about the afterlife gave them more meaning? Is that your point?
The delusion of the afterlife is just one way that people have created a meaningful connection to the cosmos. Its hard for an atheist to understand. When christians say that life would be meaningless without God I think they are partly correct. But many of us can no longer believe in God, so we just denigrate the christian view because we don't want to admit what was lost.
-------------------- Kupo said: let's fuel the robots with psilocybin. cez said: everyone should smoke dmt for religion. dustinthewind13 said: euthanasia and prostitution should be legal and located in the same building. White Beard said: if you see the buddha on the road, rape him, then kill him. then rape him again.
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akira_akuma
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Re: The Gnostic Turn In Secular Society [Re: blingbling]
#24015304 - 01/16/17 05:02 PM (7 years, 14 days ago) |
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this is true, by the way, as i said, the illusion of our children...literally.
you're not out of the christian age yet...we still have baggage...and yes...it tied us to the cosmos...now everything is....
un-life.
it's duplicitous and things seem jarred.
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RJ Tubs 202


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Re: The Gnostic Turn In Secular Society [Re: Duncan Rowhl] 1
#24020043 - 01/18/17 01:45 PM (7 years, 12 days ago) |
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Quote:
Duncan Rowhl said:
No-one who understands Christ or Buddha would ever want the condition to be otherwise.
Hence, a lot of people who are battling against it, just haven't found it, because they are too busy battling.
Independent ground is the egos dream.
Dependency is also the ego's dream.
Many choose to believe in a higher power rather than believe in themselves.
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RJ Tubs 202


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Re: The Gnostic Turn In Secular Society [Re: blingbling]
#24020062 - 01/18/17 01:50 PM (7 years, 12 days ago) |
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Quote:
blingbling said:
The delusion of the afterlife is just one way that people have created a meaningful connection to the cosmos. Its hard for an atheist to understand.
What's challenging for some atheists to understand is why eternal life is the prerequisite for a "meaningful connection to the cosmos"
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