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Offlineviktor
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An essay I wrote on the subject of planetary overpopulation * 1
    #23982984 - 01/05/17 02:26 AM (7 years, 25 days ago)

Having Three Children or More is Tantamount to Being a Murderer

Whether you realise it or not, these are exciting times for Planet Earth. We are currently in the middle of what is known as the Sixth Extinction (in the history of Earth), or the Holocene Extinction, after the geological era. This has been caused by humans, and is reshaping the biosphere of the entire planet.

The Sixth Extinction began with human migration outside of Africa. The existing megafauna of other continents – like the Woolly Mammoth and the Moa – occupied niches that were highly sensitive to the introduction of a new apex predator, and almost all of them were wiped out by human expansion.

Today, the Sixth Extinction has wiped out significant numbers of species on every land mass and ocean. The current rate of species loss is believed to be 1,000 to 10,000 times higher than what it would have been without human presence.

And it’s not just because we’re particularly wasteful or greedy.

One inescapable fact of nature and reproduction is that, for your offspring to occupy a niche within nature, they have to drive out any possible competitors in that niche, and then to defend it against all comers. So for your offspring to so much as exist and continue to exist, they have to kill other life, because nature is permanently in a state of flux and this means conflict.

Your offspring have to eat. There’s no way around that. The cattle sector of agriculture has been responsible for 80% of the rainforest destruction since 1970. And one estimate of the world’s fish stocks suggest that the number of fish in the oceans are now 10% of their pre-industrial value.

Even if you raise them to be vegans (which is itself morally questionable), the food still has to be grown somewhere and your offspring have to live somewhere, and much of the remainder of Amazon rainforest destruction is for soybean production, housing space, or for hardwoods.

This rate of destruction is not inevitable. In fact, it is a function of another variable: our rate of population increase.

Given the increase in the human population in recent centuries (as depicted in the graph above), it is simply unavoidable that we would do the amount of ecological damage that we have done. Because people have to consume the environment around them in order to continue to live, an increasing population will always alter its environment – and therefore contribute to species extinction – in so far as it needs to eat.

The central contention of this essay is this: anyone who has more than two children does an amount of environmental damage to nature which, in terms of degree of tragedy, is equal to committing murder.

After all, there is one thing we do know for certain about our increasing population, and that is the higher it increases, the higher the demand for the limited resources of the planet become, and therefore the closer we move towards war.

If a couple has two children to replace themselves they are not increasing the amount of pressure on the environment. Only by having three or more does a couple ensure that their offspring have to expand into other niches instead of (relatively) simply just inheriting those of their parents. This expansion means aggression against the previous inhabitants of those niches – and this is unavoidable.

Perhaps, if humans were serious about avoiding the environmental collapse that would kill us all, we would pass a law so that any man who could be proven to have three or more children is to be executed. If three children was considered too restrictive, we could start with a boundary of four or even five.

Original here.


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"They consider me insane but I know that I am a hero living under the eyes of the gods."


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OfflineMorel Guy
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Re: An essay I wrote on the subject of planetary overpopulation [Re: viktor]
    #23983035 - 01/05/17 03:26 AM (7 years, 25 days ago)

I don't have kids.  Some people and they tend to be very religious, have very many.  Probably some non religious large broken families as well.

Water and the health of algae are very important.  Algae produces most of the worlds O2.  They also say that wars will be fought over water.  Luckily I live in Ohio, and there is plenty of water.  But wells are running dry.  We just drilled 2 more water wells at the farm.  The driller said lot's of wells are running dry.  They didn't drill older wells deep enough.  Even the pond is several feet lower than past years.

Animals are big wasters of food.  Meat is a luxury.

It's likely that there will be a huge die off of humans.  War's are going to happen.  War's also are more likely to scar the earth more, with today's weapons.  Lot's of countries boost birth rates before and after wars.


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"in sterquiliniis invenitur in stercore invenitur"

In filth it will be found in dung it will be found


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Offlineviktor
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Re: An essay I wrote on the subject of planetary overpopulation [Re: Morel Guy]
    #23983104 - 01/05/17 04:35 AM (7 years, 25 days ago)

Quote:

Morel Guy said:
It's likely that there will be a huge die off of humans.




I think the real question is whether we ought to do anything about this or just coast along and hope we can adapt at a sufficient rate.


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"They consider me insane but I know that I am a hero living under the eyes of the gods."


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OfflineMorel Guy
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Re: An essay I wrote on the subject of planetary overpopulation [Re: viktor]
    #23983106 - 01/05/17 04:37 AM (7 years, 25 days ago)

The UN could do more but they don't seem to want to.


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"in sterquiliniis invenitur in stercore invenitur"

In filth it will be found in dung it will be found


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Invisiblesudly
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Re: An essay I wrote on the subject of planetary overpopulation [Re: viktor]
    #23983171 - 01/05/17 06:15 AM (7 years, 25 days ago)



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I am whatever Darwin needs me to be.



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Invisibleredgreenvines
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Re: An essay I wrote on the subject of planetary overpopulation [Re: sudly] * 1
    #23983203 - 01/05/17 06:54 AM (7 years, 25 days ago)

We are at the point that only industrial agriculture and multinational corporations can support our growing populations except for pockets of self reliance and organic farming and some off grid attempts at modern life.

This pattern is too complex for people to comprehend, especially since patents, trade secrets, and proprietary industrial processes are core to the social industrial machine functioning smoothly.

Reduce population pressure, and the off-grid organic movement remains healthy, but the multinational mega farm fast food reality has to shrink. In the mean time, the MacDonald's AMAZON HOLLYWOOD fabric of society has become an essential unquestioned reality - "resistance is futile".

The more population, the more unquestioned this fabric becomes, and the more dependent we become upon it.

That dependency and the inhumanity of refugee management makes me want to shrink population growth.

Also the robotics trend seems to indicate that there will be fewer jobs for the more people that eat crappy crap.


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:confused: _ :brainfart:🧠  _ :finger:


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InvisiblePsychonott
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Re: An essay I wrote on the subject of planetary overpopulation [Re: redgreenvines]
    #23983608 - 01/05/17 11:01 AM (7 years, 25 days ago)

The earth is far more resilient than climate exaggerators  try to fool people. The planet could handle  billions more but could human logistics keep up is the question.


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Enlils true purpose is to get us off topic and to cast enough logical doubts so that outsiders viewing this would be more likely to side with his fake opinions rather than our or sometimes controlled opppsotions opinions.


You see if you are too skilled at not falling for their traps and stating logically sound debunks then other accounts who purposefully agree with 90% of the truth join in and get the entire topic off the main points.

It's their 1960s version of damage control and diversion but man it's painfully obvious in 2017


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Invisibleredgreenvines
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Re: An essay I wrote on the subject of planetary overpopulation [Re: Psychonott]
    #23983691 - 01/05/17 11:37 AM (7 years, 25 days ago)

why should it accommodate the maximum conceivable number?
how did it turn into a platform for global warming denial.

where is the sanity in your  comment Mr. Psychonott?

or are you just being naughty


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:confused: _ :brainfart:🧠  _ :finger:


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Invisiblesudly
Darwin's stagger


Registered: 01/05/15
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Re: An essay I wrote on the subject of planetary overpopulation [Re: Psychonott]
    #23984398 - 01/05/17 04:25 PM (7 years, 25 days ago)

I don't know why people think the atmosphere has infinite storage..


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I am whatever Darwin needs me to be.



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Invisibleredgreenvines
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Re: An essay I wrote on the subject of planetary overpopulation [Re: sudly]
    #23984458 - 01/05/17 04:41 PM (7 years, 25 days ago)

they are just drones echoing comments from politically invested good for nothing profiteers.


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OfflineMorel Guy
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Re: An essay I wrote on the subject of planetary overpopulation [Re: redgreenvines]
    #23984549 - 01/05/17 05:08 PM (7 years, 25 days ago)

Everyone ever went into space marvels at the thin blue band, aka atmosphere.


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"in sterquiliniis invenitur in stercore invenitur"

In filth it will be found in dung it will be found


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Offlinejakefake
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Re: An essay I wrote on the subject of planetary overpopulation [Re: viktor]
    #23984604 - 01/05/17 05:23 PM (7 years, 25 days ago)

Viktor - I think you're worrying too much. Other humans,  and especially lots of them,  help to create and sustain the affluence you take for granted. Enjoy :smile:


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InvisibleDividedQuantumM
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Re: An essay I wrote on the subject of planetary overpopulation [Re: viktor] * 1
    #23984679 - 01/05/17 05:50 PM (7 years, 25 days ago)

The global population was too large at a billion.  Now we're at almost eight, and on the way to about ten billion by 2050. It's a dramatically unhealthy number of humans, and one can see that we're wiping out and displacing the animal kingdom rapidly. As viktor correctly noted, we are in the midst of a great extinction, and humans are the cause.

We have more than three billion people (almost half the world's population) below the poverty line, and the 250 richest people on Earth have more money and control more resources than the 3 billion+ poorest. One can argue that it's a matter of availability of resources, and that we can support this many people at a reasonable standard of living. My question is: when?! How much longer will it take to get over three billion people to a reasonable standard of living? And we can't expect this standard of living to be as high for everyone as it is in the West. Statistically, if everyone on Earth were to live at an American standard of living, 4.1 Earths would be required at maximum efficiency to support that level of consumption. So -- when exactly are the resources going to be available?

Very many of our problems stem from the burgeoning population. Virtually all of our environmental problems do. It's not deleterious for some people to live the way Westerners do. It is totally deleterious for everyone to live that way. So, do we work to reduce the population, or do we settle for an extremely sparse standard of living for ten billion people, and say fuck the environment?

I'm also in agreement with viktor on limiting number of offspring, but I would say one child rather than two would be optimal, and that there should be some incentive for people not to have children at all. We need to get serious.

Way too many humans.


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Vi Veri Universum Vivus Vici


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Offlineviktor
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Re: An essay I wrote on the subject of planetary overpopulation [Re: DividedQuantum]
    #23984889 - 01/05/17 07:10 PM (7 years, 25 days ago)

Yeah I actually thought of you when I wrote this DQ, especially as I calculated how many humans the Earth could support if we went back to hunting and gathering, which I estimate to be about 50,000,000.


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"They consider me insane but I know that I am a hero living under the eyes of the gods."


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InvisibleDividedQuantumM
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Re: An essay I wrote on the subject of planetary overpopulation [Re: viktor]
    #23984922 - 01/05/17 07:20 PM (7 years, 25 days ago)

Yeah, that sounds about right. Clearly, barring some major catastrophe, that type of economy is long gone. It's a question whether there would be enough in most places to hunt or gather adequately, though. I guess some animal populations would rebound. Purely hypothetical, of course.


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Vi Veri Universum Vivus Vici


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Offlineblingbling
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Re: An essay I wrote on the subject of planetary overpopulation [Re: Psychonott]
    #23985079 - 01/05/17 08:26 PM (7 years, 25 days ago)

Quote:

Psychonott said:
The earth is far more resilient than climate exaggerators  try to fool people. The planet could handle  billions more but could human logistics keep up is the question.




Africa alone could feed the entire planet if it was managed properly. The overpopulation question is a bit misleading because it doesn't take into account standards of living. At a lower standard of living we could easily support 10 billion people.

Also, education of women has been shown to reduce family size and so reduce population. So viktor, if your really worried about overpopulation you should be promoting womens education.


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Kupo said:
let's fuel the robots with psilocybin.

cez said:
everyone should smoke dmt for religion.

dustinthewind13 said:
euthanasia and prostitution should be legal and located in the same building.

White Beard said:
if you see the buddha on the road, rape him, then kill him. then rape him again.


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Offlineviktor
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Re: An essay I wrote on the subject of planetary overpopulation [Re: blingbling]
    #23985252 - 01/05/17 09:32 PM (7 years, 25 days ago)

I think any woman from an Islamic country ought to be offered asylum in the West, so that's my offer.


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"They consider me insane but I know that I am a hero living under the eyes of the gods."


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Offlinejakefake
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Re: An essay I wrote on the subject of planetary overpopulation [Re: DividedQuantum]
    #23985390 - 01/05/17 10:32 PM (7 years, 25 days ago)

Quote:

DividedQuantum said:
The global population was too large at a billion...

I'm also in agreement with viktor on limiting number of offspring...




Rubbish! This is simply the voice of someone who doesn't like other people, and who especially doesn't like children.


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Offlinejakefake
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Re: An essay I wrote on the subject of planetary overpopulation [Re: DividedQuantum]
    #23985410 - 01/05/17 10:43 PM (7 years, 25 days ago)

Quote:

DividedQuantum said:

We have more than three billion people (almost half the world's population) below the poverty line, and the 250 richest people on Earth have more money and control more resources than the 3 billion+ poorest.




True, but this has got absolutely nothing to do with the question of how many people there are. When France faced up to the issue of social inequality 200 years ago,  their solution was was to execute the top 2 percent of the population. I don't recommend their solution, but it's much more effective than  yours, which is to try to limit breeding.


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OfflineEywa_devotee
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Re: An essay I wrote on the subject of planetary overpopulation [Re: jakefake]
    #23985561 - 01/06/17 12:06 AM (7 years, 24 days ago)

The core of the problem isn't children, it's fear based existence based on ignorance, delusion, deception, greed, and pride. At this point it is extremely obvious that this mode of thought will not change. If this continues, the sterilization of the Earth's biosphere due to the reckless abuse of technology and waste of resources is all but inevitable. The only solution at this point is a plague one as nasty as the one in the stand, or a "Skyline" style alien harvest of the human race. It is what it is.


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"Love one another." "To Love is to know me." "Love is the Law, Love under Will." "In Compassion, all sorrows end." Regardless of the Master, the message is the same- Choose love and you shall live, Choose Fear and you shall die. Help bring peace to this Earth: Love one another, and serve others before yourself.


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