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InvisibleIntelligentxfruit
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indoor shiitake production shouldn't be concurrent with outdoor season?
    #23982846 - 01/04/17 11:44 PM (7 years, 25 days ago)

I've been seeing some pictures of huge shiitake log farms. I was thinking about making shiitake a constant in my green house but after seeing these pictures common sense is telling me to stay away until I get a feel for the market in my area. Especially during outdoor cultivation season.

Is this a good call or does the quality of indoor shiitake still allow you to grow them during the season?

Thanks for any advice


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OfflineQuadman
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Re: indoor shiitake production shouldn't be concurrent with outdoor season? [Re: Intelligentxfruit]
    #23986279 - 01/06/17 11:02 AM (7 years, 24 days ago)

You wouldn't want customers bailing out on you because of no product. Good idea to feel out the market. You might take a price hit if the market gets flooded. What sells is local, fresh, high quality, dependable supply of mushrooms. Just my opinion.


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OfflineForresterM
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Re: indoor shiitake production shouldn't be concurrent with outdoor season? [Re: Quadman]
    #23987883 - 01/06/17 09:41 PM (7 years, 24 days ago)

Quote:

Quadman said:
You wouldn't want customers bailing out on you because of no product. Good idea to feel out the market. You might take a price hit if the market gets flooded. What sells is local, fresh, high quality, dependable supply of mushrooms. Just my opinion.




I absolutely agree - not sure I understand the OP's question fully, but why not focus on indoor growing when outdoor/log growing ISN'T in season? 
Customers that depend on the seasonal outdoor log growers are going to be SOL when the season is over, so why not step in and provide them with great quality indoor shiitake?  I've no commercial experience, but I think any restaurant will take what it can get when it can get it, so follow the law of supply and demand and maybe fill the off-season gap, if there is one in your area, and few competing indoor growers, you could get top dollar.  Just my thoughts, take 'em with a grain of salt as I've never gone commercial.


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Repugnant is a creature who would squander the ability to lift an eye to heaven, conscious of his fleeting time here.
-------------------

Have some medicinal mushrooms and want to get the most out of them?  Try this double extraction method.


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InvisibleIntelligentxfruit
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Re: indoor shiitake production shouldn't be concurrent with outdoor season? [Re: Forrester]
    #23988236 - 01/07/17 12:02 AM (7 years, 23 days ago)

That is a good point quadman but if I have to drop prices to keep up if the market gets flooded it wouldn't be worth it either way. If only I had the space...

Really I think I'm working on too many hypotheticals right now and need to do solid market prospecting in my area.

But thats what I'm saying forrester, when the outdoor seasoning is going it seems pointless to try waste precious real-estate in my tiny ass greenhouse. Then when its over I can schedule shiitake to be ready to go asap.

The only way it will make sense to dedicate constant space to shiitake is if the quality of indoor is something preferred and sought out by customers - which is something I hope someone can shine some light on for me?


Thanks though guys I was wondering if this was a stupid question:lol:


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OfflineForresterM
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Re: indoor shiitake production shouldn't be concurrent with outdoor season? [Re: Intelligentxfruit]
    #23990954 - 01/07/17 09:07 PM (7 years, 23 days ago)

Quote:

Intelligentxfruit said:
But thats what I'm saying forrester, when the outdoor seasoning is going it seems pointless to try waste precious real-estate in my tiny ass greenhouse. Then when its over I can schedule shiitake to be ready to go asap.




Exactly!  Restaurants aren't going to stick to one supplier just to be "loyal", they'll take the product from whoever has got it, especially if it's out of season and you're the only one!  If that's the case, prices can naturally go right up as you'll be the one dictating them.

Quote:

Intelligentxfruit said:
The only way it will make sense to dedicate constant space to shiitake is if the quality of indoor is something preferred and sought out by customers - which is something I hope someone can shine some light on for me?





That's a really good question actually, which I can't answer with any authority.  My thoughts though:  Outdoor mushrooms get bugs.  So yeah, unless they have a way of keeping bugs/larvae away from their outdoor mushrooms, indoor could be quite superior.  If they DO have a way of keeping bugs off their outdoor mushrooms, what is it?  Pesticides/chemicals?  Mention this and indoor mushrooms = again, maybe superior.

But other than that, providing you give them the right growing conditions, I don't believe there will be much difference in the quality of indoor vs. outdoor (although shiitake contains a precursor to vitamin D, which natural sunlight converts to actual vitamin D, which would make them more healthy.  But I don't think chefs give a shit about that.)

Farmer's market shoppers might though.  It's all in marketing and who you're marketing to.  Organic is highly sought by some, but getting an actual certification is usually cost prohibitive to small growers.  But you can always say, "grown on a fully organic substrate with no chemicals or pesticides" or whatever, providing you actually do.


--------------------
Repugnant is a creature who would squander the ability to lift an eye to heaven, conscious of his fleeting time here.
-------------------

Have some medicinal mushrooms and want to get the most out of them?  Try this double extraction method.


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OfflineQuadman
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Re: indoor shiitake production shouldn't be concurrent with outdoor season? [Re: Forrester]
    #23991036 - 01/07/17 09:36 PM (7 years, 23 days ago)

I was in sales a good portion of my life. Believe me the last thing I wanted was someone else to provide a service or product to my customer. Are these outdoor shiitake close or in your immediate area? If they are I would consider growing for little income short term just to keep a customer. If they aren't in your area you should be able to compete with quality products and good service and still be profitable. Be the supplier they want to use, their go to man. Know why you are that person. Sales 101


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OfflineCrispykoot
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Re: indoor shiitake production shouldn't be concurrent with outdoor season? [Re: Forrester]
    #23991086 - 01/07/17 09:54 PM (7 years, 23 days ago)

Indoor is where it's at IMO for Shiitake. They are harder to grow during the summer but you can run a chiller or a small AC. If you can control temps and have a good strain, you're set. You can dial in the size to what you want.

Certified Organic is a plus, isn't that expensive and has no transition period in some places like Canada (for mushrooms grown indoors on certified substrates with certified inputs).

Restaurants want local, don't generally care about organic for the most part. A good price and a great attitude is everything with them. As for grocery, you will get the best wholesale price if you are organic. The dried market is actually pretty big as well. Think Traditional Chinese Medicine, herbalists, soup makers, bulk food. You can really get a handle on your profit margin if things are consistant.


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:gd_icon: Shadowboxing the apocalypse and wandering the land :gd_icon:


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InvisibleIntelligentxfruit
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Re: indoor shiitake production shouldn't be concurrent with outdoor season? [Re: Crispykoot]
    #23991442 - 01/08/17 12:49 AM (7 years, 22 days ago)

Yeah I think theres a transition period of 3 years here before you can be certified and I have no clue about the price.

The closest farm I have been able to find online is about 2hrs away but I don't think most mid-sized or even large farms have website and contact info.
I've tried searching a lot...for hours...on all things locally in my area from markets to vendors and its not highly advertised.

I think I'm just going to dedicate some space, it seems better to have than not too. Its not like I'm going to be working at a serious production level :lol:
For how small scale I'm going to be at first i'm way over thinking it haha


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OfflinepoofterFroth
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Re: indoor shiitake production shouldn't be concurrent with outdoor season? [Re: Intelligentxfruit]
    #23991683 - 01/08/17 06:51 AM (7 years, 22 days ago)

If your looking to grow on a small scale fruiting actual shiitake logs indoors during the winter could save you time, money and space in the long run.

Cold soaking and fruiting them in a basement is legit and can produce good healthy fruits, especially if you have a window for natural lighting.

You could just run a small number of blocks until your logs are producing then switch over.

Organic certification for mushroom cultivation surely isn't a 3-5 year process if your not growing in outdoor/ground beds etc. I think that number has something to do with your growing fields/property needing that long before it can "cleanse" itself of non-organic processes.


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OfflineCrispykoot
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Re: indoor shiitake production shouldn't be concurrent with outdoor season? [Re: poofterFroth]
    #23991758 - 01/08/17 07:54 AM (7 years, 22 days ago)

The Canadian COR standard should be the same as USDA and should have the same transition for mushrooms grown indoors on organic substrates with organic inputs, but I can't be sure. The standards are comparable and meant to work together.


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:gd_icon: Shadowboxing the apocalypse and wandering the land :gd_icon:


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InvisibleIntelligentxfruit
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Re: indoor shiitake production shouldn't be concurrent with outdoor season? [Re: Crispykoot]
    #23993695 - 01/08/17 08:27 PM (7 years, 22 days ago)

I do about a dozen or so logs a year outdoors with plugs, I suppose I could start bringing some inside but I always have to go hunting for free wood lol

And yeah honestly I think I read about the 3 year thing on a box somewhere of a company that was transitioning, I'm going to do some research into the certs right now.


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OfflineForresterM
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Re: indoor shiitake production shouldn't be concurrent with outdoor season? [Re: Intelligentxfruit]
    #23996976 - 01/09/17 11:35 PM (7 years, 20 days ago)

Quote:

Intelligentxfruit said:
I do about a dozen or so logs a year outdoors with plugs, I suppose I could start bringing some inside but I always have to go hunting for free wood lol





Wood pellets are cheap man, if you can get 'em in your area.  You can make a lot of filter patch blocks and get pretty good yields from them indoors, much more than you'd get from having to drag a bunch of logs down to your basement!  And that's without even supplementing/sterilizing them.  I'm talking boiling water poured into a filter patch bag of wood pellets.  Spawn a whole quart and wait 3 months or so.

The only problem with that, especially in the winter, is you better have a dependable heating system, or a strain that doesn't pin easily from a small drop in temp.  I've had a lot of problems with my bags pinning way before fully browned because the heater went out and the temps went down 5-10 degrees, even if only for a few hours.  All of a sudden they're all pinning, way too early, and you're kinda screwed.


--------------------
Repugnant is a creature who would squander the ability to lift an eye to heaven, conscious of his fleeting time here.
-------------------

Have some medicinal mushrooms and want to get the most out of them?  Try this double extraction method.


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OfflineSnagman17
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Re: indoor shiitake production shouldn't be concurrent with outdoor season? [Re: Forrester]
    #23997419 - 01/10/17 06:56 AM (7 years, 20 days ago)

Forrester, there was a thread a while back where he was getting some mutants off his blocks spawned with a while quart. Have you had the same issue?


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OfflineForresterM
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Re: indoor shiitake production shouldn't be concurrent with outdoor season? [Re: Snagman17]
    #23999923 - 01/10/17 11:47 PM (7 years, 19 days ago)

Quote:

Snagman17 said:
Forrester, there was a thread a while back where he was getting some mutants off his blocks spawned with a while quart. Have you had the same issue?




Occasionally, depending on strain, but to me mutants taste just as good and yields were not affected.  Quart per bag seems perfect to me if you wanna just lazy "bucket/bag-tek" pasteurize and not supplement/sterilize.  Really not an issue as far as I'm concerned.  Even if ya sell em, I can't imagine farmer's market goers NOT buying my shiitake because it has two heads, lol...


--------------------
Repugnant is a creature who would squander the ability to lift an eye to heaven, conscious of his fleeting time here.
-------------------

Have some medicinal mushrooms and want to get the most out of them?  Try this double extraction method.


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OfflineSnagman17
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Re: indoor shiitake production shouldn't be concurrent with outdoor season? [Re: Forrester]
    #24000360 - 01/11/17 06:56 AM (7 years, 19 days ago)

I'm not too concerned with farmers markets yet anyways, hopefully this summer. Right now just growing for personal use and learning more about growing them. I did spawn the "lazy" way this time. Pasteurized fuel pellets in large filter patch bags. I don't have a flow hood and I think my still air box is too small to work large bags. I'll try a whole quart next batch and compare.


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OfflineForresterM
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Re: indoor shiitake production shouldn't be concurrent with outdoor season? [Re: Snagman17]
    #24002559 - 01/11/17 10:07 PM (7 years, 19 days ago)

Yeah give it a shot and see if using a whole quart improves yields!  If it doesn't, no sense doing it.  I never really tried using less than a full quart, as I never needed to do THAT many bags at a time.


--------------------
Repugnant is a creature who would squander the ability to lift an eye to heaven, conscious of his fleeting time here.
-------------------

Have some medicinal mushrooms and want to get the most out of them?  Try this double extraction method.


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OfflineSnagman17
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Re: indoor shiitake production shouldn't be concurrent with outdoor season? [Re: Forrester]
    #24003265 - 01/12/17 07:05 AM (7 years, 18 days ago)

I need to pick up more fuel pellets but the next batch I try to do a side by side. I have plenty of spawn right now anyways. Man, that 3782 tears through Milo like there is no tomorrow!


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Re: indoor shiitake production shouldn't be concurrent with outdoor season? [Re: Snagman17]
    #24005767 - 01/12/17 10:17 PM (7 years, 18 days ago)

Quote:

Snagman17 said:
I need to pick up more fuel pellets but the next batch I try to do a side by side. I have plenty of spawn right now anyways. Man, that 3782 tears through Milo like there is no tomorrow!




Looking forward to seeing your side by side results!  Might motivate me to finally try that strain...


--------------------
Repugnant is a creature who would squander the ability to lift an eye to heaven, conscious of his fleeting time here.
-------------------

Have some medicinal mushrooms and want to get the most out of them?  Try this double extraction method.


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OfflineSnagman17
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Re: indoor shiitake production shouldn't be concurrent with outdoor season? [Re: Forrester]
    #24006390 - 01/13/17 07:06 AM (7 years, 17 days ago)

I have two bags going now, it will be the first time I've fruited shitake. I'm really impressed with the vigor of the strain, though I can't compare it to other strains of shitake. I'll try to remember to get a pic up tonight of the bags.


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Re: indoor shiitake production shouldn't be concurrent with outdoor season? [Re: Snagman17]
    #24007993 - 01/13/17 06:36 PM (7 years, 17 days ago)

Quote:

Snagman17 said:
I have two bags going now, it will be the first time I've fruited shitake. I'm really impressed with the vigor of the strain, though I can't compare it to other strains of shitake. I'll try to remember to get a pic up tonight of the bags.




Sweet dude, keep records and let us know what temps you're letting them colonize/brown at, how long they take to fully brown, and especially if you have any problems with them pinning before fully browned.  (sorry, that's all really just for me, haha :wink: )


--------------------
Repugnant is a creature who would squander the ability to lift an eye to heaven, conscious of his fleeting time here.
-------------------

Have some medicinal mushrooms and want to get the most out of them?  Try this double extraction method.


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OfflineSnagman17
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Re: indoor shiitake production shouldn't be concurrent with outdoor season? [Re: Forrester]
    #24008017 - 01/13/17 06:48 PM (7 years, 17 days ago)

Will do. I'll probably do a grow log at some point.


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InvisibleIntelligentxfruit
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Re: indoor shiitake production shouldn't be concurrent with outdoor season? [Re: Snagman17]
    #24008043 - 01/13/17 06:59 PM (7 years, 17 days ago)

Link it here if you do please:thumbup:
all i've been doing is reading through growlogs the last week or so.:lol:


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