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Invisiblemoonrockmushy
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Registered: 07/01/05
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Re: dope poll [Re: Starstepper]
    #23983994 - 01/05/17 01:48 PM (7 years, 25 days ago)

yeah #3 can be smoked without adding something like caffiene to the mix, #4 is water soluble without using an acid so it can be snorted or injected.

Tar isn't really either, it is just extremely crude and unrefined, so who knows what the fuck the form the molecules are in.

#1 and #2 hardly mean anything outside of countries that produce heroin, and they probably call these forms something else anyway, so that doesn't matter too much.


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InvisibleBurke Dennings
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Re: dope poll [Re: sanchothestoner] * 1
    #23984063 - 01/05/17 02:23 PM (7 years, 25 days ago)

No.

I found this quote on the subject:

Quote:

The numbering system was devised by the US DEA in the very early 1970s and is as follows:

Heroin #1: Morphine Freebase or Morphine HCL

Heroin #2: Heroin Acetate or Heroin Freebase

Heroin #3: #4 heroin but specifically altered at the POM (Point of Manufacture) to make it conducive for smoking. The technical definition is a 60:40 mix, with 60 representing heroin hcl. and 40 representing caffeine hcl.

Heroin #4: Heroin hcl made specifically for injection.




...but I'm not sure how accurate that is. 


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InvisibleBurke Dennings
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Re: dope poll [Re: Burke Dennings]
    #23984074 - 01/05/17 02:27 PM (7 years, 25 days ago)

We need to get dust bunny in here, he probably knows.  I do know that it's different levels of refinement, not different forms.


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Invisiblemoonrockmushy
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Re: dope poll [Re: Burke Dennings]
    #23984106 - 01/05/17 02:41 PM (7 years, 25 days ago)

I mean the heroin they produce in Afghanistan is #3.  That is not Heroin HCL cut with caffiene, that is heroin base.


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InvisibleBurke Dennings
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Re: dope poll [Re: moonrockmushy]
    #23984112 - 01/05/17 02:47 PM (7 years, 25 days ago)

That's what I had been lead to believe as well.  And that morphine was #2 (or maybe I'm remembering it wrong).


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Invisiblemoonrockmushy
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Re: dope poll [Re: Burke Dennings]
    #23984122 - 01/05/17 02:51 PM (7 years, 25 days ago)

I mean it's a pretty arbitrary classification in any case, but from the links I see it seems people have adopted the idea without really sticking to that original numbering system the DEA made.

I mean these days you could call it number 4 and it would really be fentanyl.  Who fuckin knows what drugs is.

And I think Heroin acetate is #2, morphine is #1.


Edited by moonrockmushy (01/05/17 02:53 PM)


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InvisibleBurke Dennings
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Re: dope poll [Re: moonrockmushy] * 5
    #23984132 - 01/05/17 02:55 PM (7 years, 25 days ago)

Shit's getting crazy out there with fentanyl.  As if heroin use wasn't risky enough before, but now it's bonkers.  Scary shit for sure, glad I'm done with it finally.  In March I'll be 3 years away from heroin addiction.


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OfflineStarstepper
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Re: dope poll [Re: Burke Dennings] * 1
    #23984133 - 01/05/17 02:56 PM (7 years, 25 days ago)

Quote:

Burke Dennings said:
We need to get dust bunny in here, he probably knows.  I do know that it's different levels of refinement, not different forms.




Dustbunny knows all. I picture him in a room like russel crowe in that movie a beautiful mind with information all over the walls about all forms of drugs.





--------------------
:darkside::darkside::darkside::darkside::darkside::darkside::darkside::darkside::darkside::darkside::darkside::darkside::darkside::darkside::darkside::darkside::darkside::darkside::darkside::darkside::darkside::darkside::darkside::darkside::darkside::darkside::darkside::darkside::darkside::darkside::darkside::darkside::darkside::darkside::darkside::darkside::darkside::darkside::darkside::darkside::darkside::darkside::darkside::darkside::darkside::darkside::darkside::darkside::darkside::darkside::darkside::darkside::darkside::darkside::darkside::darkside::darkside::darkside::darkside::darkside::darkside::darkside::darkside:


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Invisiblemoonrockmushy
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Re: dope poll [Re: Burke Dennings]
    #23984167 - 01/05/17 03:12 PM (7 years, 25 days ago)

Yeah I feel like I'm done with it.  I did kick before and feel like I was done and made it 18 months, but then I got depressed or whatever.  I remember it pretty vividly I was living in my car and I was it Philadelphia and I just couldn't sleep so I drove straight back 6 hours to where I live and immediately bought some bags. 

It's like you can't even really feel what it takes from you while you're on it.  How much you're missing in life.  How pathetic it is to be satisfied nodding out and drooling on yourself when you should be living your life.


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Offlineczech
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Re: dope poll [Re: czech]
    #23984185 - 01/05/17 03:19 PM (7 years, 25 days ago)

Heroin purity has been classified into four grades. No.4 is the purest form – white powder (salt) to be easily dissolved and injected. No.3 is "gunpowder" for smoking (base). No.1 and No.2 are unprocessed raw heroin (salt or base).


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InvisibleBurke Dennings
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Re: dope poll [Re: moonrockmushy] * 2
    #23984190 - 01/05/17 03:21 PM (7 years, 25 days ago)

Yeah man, well said!  It is lame as hell.  I hope you're able to stay off it this time. 

And yeah, starstepper, bunny's got a beautiful drug mind.  He'd win a Nobel prize like John Nash, if they awarded one for drugs.  The Nobel Drug Prize.


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InvisibleBurke Dennings
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Re: dope poll [Re: Burke Dennings]
    #23984199 - 01/05/17 03:25 PM (7 years, 25 days ago)

Do you have a link to a source on that, Czech?  Is gunpowder just BTH that's cut with caffeine?  I've read conflicting things.


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Offlinesanchothestoner
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Re: dope poll [Re: Burke Dennings]
    #23984262 - 01/05/17 03:48 PM (7 years, 25 days ago)

No gunpowder is tar that is mixed with powder.

Burke, that chart you posted is weird.... I've never heard of #1 and #2 from yer chart.

There seems to be a lot of different definitions for the numbers.


--------------------
I fucking hate you... God damn, I love you...
But we both know if we stick together, we'll just tear ourselves apart
You are my sunshine, my only sunshine, you make me happy, when skies are grey
You are my heroin, but there's an abscess... God damn, I miss the vein!


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Offlinesanchothestoner
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Re: dope poll [Re: czech]
    #23984266 - 01/05/17 03:49 PM (7 years, 25 days ago)

Quote:

czech said:
Heroin purity has been classified into four grades. No.4 is the purest form – white powder (salt) to be easily dissolved and injected. No.3 is "gunpowder" for smoking (base). No.1 and No.2 are unprocessed raw heroin (salt or base).




This is what I've seen


--------------------
I fucking hate you... God damn, I love you...
But we both know if we stick together, we'll just tear ourselves apart
You are my sunshine, my only sunshine, you make me happy, when skies are grey
You are my heroin, but there's an abscess... God damn, I miss the vein!


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InvisibleBurke Dennings
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Re: dope poll [Re: sanchothestoner]
    #23984275 - 01/05/17 03:52 PM (7 years, 25 days ago)

"Gunpowder is tar mixed with powder"

What kind of powder?  Caffeine powder?  Because if it's mixed with powder heroin4, then gunpowder is just 2 kinda of #4.


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InvisibleRepertoire89
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Re: dope poll [Re: Burke Dennings]
    #23984284 - 01/05/17 03:53 PM (7 years, 25 days ago)

Gunpowder?


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Offlineczech
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Re: dope poll [Re: Burke Dennings]
    #23984290 - 01/05/17 03:54 PM (7 years, 25 days ago)

I don't have a source but that's the grade system i've always known. Gunpowder is tar supplemented with pressed diamorphine salts. It should dissolve instantly in water. Caffiene is too expensive so if you were to cut it you'd have to break up the bricks, mix in vitamin b12 only (everything else has flavor or scent of some sort you can tell if h is cut with lots of things because it won't be so sickeningly sweet smelling, and re press it because if it's powder than it's not called gunpowder, just brown sugar. Gunpowder comes in bricks most of the stuff in jersey was from DNM. I think the vendor used to have a wolf stamp on the 50 gram bricks.


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InvisibleBurke Dennings
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Registered: 11/29/04
Posts: 81,641
Re: dope poll [Re: czech]
    #23984302 - 01/05/17 03:59 PM (7 years, 25 days ago)

Since tar contains #4, and diamorphine salts are #4, why would gunpowder not be #4?


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Offlineczech
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Re: dope poll [Re: Burke Dennings]
    #23984337 - 01/05/17 04:07 PM (7 years, 25 days ago)

They do not differentiate substances it's a grading system based on purity.

That's a decent example. Diamorphine is what heroin actually is, the impurities in tar change it's properties, most of the impurities are 6-MAM,


Pure morphine and heroin are both fine powders. Tar's unique appearance and texture is due to its acetylation without benefit of the usual reflux apparatus: the Wright-Beckett process substitutes common acetic acid for high-purity acetic anhydride in the acetylating process and omits the refluxing steps, making black tar cruder but cheaper and faster to produce than true heroin. It should also be noted that the percent of the remainder[clarification needed] of black tar heroin is often other psychoactive opiate substances, like monoacetylmorphine in the form of 3- and 6-monoacetylmorphine (3-MAM and 6-MAM) as well as the toxic 6-Monoacetylcodeine as well as the usual adulterants and diluents found in other forms of heroin.

The abnormally high 3-MAM content is due to the less than optimum acetylating agent combined with a different reaction time for the acetylation procedure. Varying levels of 6-MAM are due to the process of hydrolysis or from the process of using a catalyst in the creation of the product from the beginning (6-MAM being more potent by weight than 3,6-AM or "heroin" proper), a natural decomposition of heroin, which is accelerated when the heroin comes into contact with moisture. In 2006, ten-year-old samples of black tar heroin held as evidence were found to contain 51% and 63% 6-MAM by the Vista, California, U.S. DEA laboratory.[7]

40 percent afghan heroin is equal to about 30 percent purity black tar.[citation needed] Most black tar heroin is between 55 and 93 percent purity[citation needed]. In black tar heroin the morphine is concentrated in liquid opium to approximately 90 percent purity.[citation needed] Instead of extracting the morphine from the opium, it is instead concentrated within the opium sap and acetylated as is. This is what gives it that gummy appearance.

The assumption that tar has less adulterants and diluents is a misconception. The most common adulterant is lactose, which is added to tar via dissolution of both substances in a liquid medium, reheating and filtering, and then recrystallizing. This process is very simple and can be accomplished in any kitchen with no level of expertise needed.

The price per kilogram of black tar heroin has increased from one-tenth that of South American powder heroin in the mid-1990s to between one-half and three-quarters in 2003 due to increased distributional acumen combined with increased demand in black tar's traditional realm of distribution. Black tar heroin distribution has steadily risen in recent years, while that of U.S. east coast powder varieties has dropped; heroin production in Colombia has decreased[8] as U.S.-funded efforts to eradicate Colombian poppy fields continue.


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OfflineStarstepper
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Re: dope poll [Re: czech]
    #23984371 - 01/05/17 04:17 PM (7 years, 25 days ago)

When purchasing does the # affect the price?


--------------------
:darkside::darkside::darkside::darkside::darkside::darkside::darkside::darkside::darkside::darkside::darkside::darkside::darkside::darkside::darkside::darkside::darkside::darkside::darkside::darkside::darkside::darkside::darkside::darkside::darkside::darkside::darkside::darkside::darkside::darkside::darkside::darkside::darkside::darkside::darkside::darkside::darkside::darkside::darkside::darkside::darkside::darkside::darkside::darkside::darkside::darkside::darkside::darkside::darkside::darkside::darkside::darkside::darkside::darkside::darkside::darkside::darkside::darkside::darkside::darkside::darkside::darkside::darkside:


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