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psi
TOAST N' JAM


Registered: 09/05/99
Posts: 31,456
Loc: 613
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Re: What horrible thing will 2017 be known for? [Re: Senor_Doobie]
#23986714 - 01/06/17 02:42 PM (7 years, 24 days ago) |
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I don't know know how "immediate danger of sexual abuse" would be interpreted. Presumably this condition would be satisfied if they were about to have sex with a client. If it's a cop posing as a client, I'm not sure whether or not that would qualify (since the "danger" in the immediate situation isn't real).
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PatrickKn


Registered: 07/10/11
Posts: 20,564
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Re: What horrible thing will 2017 be known for? [Re: psi]
#23986733 - 01/06/17 02:49 PM (7 years, 24 days ago) |
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Quote:
psi said: I don't know know how "immediate danger of sexual abuse" would be interpreted. Presumably this condition would be satisfied if they were about to have sex with a client. If it's a cop posing as a client, I'm not sure whether or not that would qualify (since the "danger" in the immediate situation isn't real).
The law leaves room so that kids can be taken into custody more easily from what I can tell. This seems to be how other people have cleared up it's meaning as well over the past three days since the original article Senor Doobie was released (the same article that sparked the controversy from what I could tell looking it up). Immediate danger of sexual abuse is exactly what's going on if you're are being trafficked, and you are at risk of sexual (and physical) abuse at all times of the day until you are removed from that relationship with pimps, traffickers or unfit guardians.
The law takes away the police authority to arrest the juvenile as a criminal, and grants the authority to take them into custody to get them away from whoever is sexualizing them. It does not make pimping legal, and does not make sex with a minor legal. It makes the minor who is prostituting a victim rather than a criminal.
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Senor_Doobie
Snake Pit Champion


Registered: 08/11/99
Posts: 22,678
Loc: Trump Train
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Re: What horrible thing will 2017 be known for? [Re: PatrickKn]
#23986743 - 01/06/17 02:52 PM (7 years, 24 days ago) |
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You can more easily remove a child from the situation by adding restrictions to their ability to do so.
-------------------- "America: Fuck yeah!" -- Alexthegreat “Nothing can now be believed which is seen in a newspaper. Truth itself becomes suspicious by being put into that polluted vehicle. The real extent of this state of misinformation is known only to those who are in situations to confront facts within their knowledge with the lies of the day.” -- Thomas Jefferson The greatest sin of mankind is ignorance. The press takes [Trump] literally, but not seriously; his supporters take him seriously, but not literally. --Salena Zeto (9/23/16)
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PatrickKn


Registered: 07/10/11
Posts: 20,564
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Re: What horrible thing will 2017 be known for? [Re: Senor_Doobie]
#23986764 - 01/06/17 03:00 PM (7 years, 24 days ago) |
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Quote:
Senor_Doobie said: You can more easily remove a child from the situation by adding restrictions to their ability to do so.
I can't tell if you're sarcastically equating that to what I just said, or if you are stating it as a fact. Either way, I disagree with the assertion that this adds restrictions in the first place. The only restriction it adds is the part where they charge the young person with a crime and put them through a judicial system charged with prostitution as a juvenile despite being victims of criminal organization a lot of the time.
This is from the author of the bill:
https://pbs.twimg.com/media/C09zHS8VIAEAvEO.jpg
So while it does restrict the ability to arrest criminally, it opens up the ability to take the juvenile in and put them in the right hands. Police no longer need to arrest the person to separate them. It removes restrictions in that sense.
Edited by PatrickKn (01/06/17 03:06 PM)
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Senor_Doobie
Snake Pit Champion


Registered: 08/11/99
Posts: 22,678
Loc: Trump Train
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Re: What horrible thing will 2017 be known for? [Re: PatrickKn]
#23986874 - 01/06/17 03:36 PM (7 years, 24 days ago) |
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So you say that you don't think it adds more restrictions and then tell me about the restrictions it adds, which are specifically related to arrest, not charge.
-------------------- "America: Fuck yeah!" -- Alexthegreat “Nothing can now be believed which is seen in a newspaper. Truth itself becomes suspicious by being put into that polluted vehicle. The real extent of this state of misinformation is known only to those who are in situations to confront facts within their knowledge with the lies of the day.” -- Thomas Jefferson The greatest sin of mankind is ignorance. The press takes [Trump] literally, but not seriously; his supporters take him seriously, but not literally. --Salena Zeto (9/23/16)
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PatrickKn


Registered: 07/10/11
Posts: 20,564
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Re: What horrible thing will 2017 be known for? [Re: Senor_Doobie]
#23986880 - 01/06/17 03:37 PM (7 years, 24 days ago) |
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The police are able to do more to help the person in question is what I'm saying. I suppose I might have worded that in an odd way as I meant to say there would be fewer restrictions overall.
You did deflect on the main point though.
Edited by PatrickKn (01/06/17 03:55 PM)
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wolfiewolfie
Just wingin' it.


Registered: 06/16/15
Posts: 2,177
Loc: Australia
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Re: What horrible thing will 2017 be known for? [Re: PatrickKn]
#23986979 - 01/06/17 04:17 PM (7 years, 24 days ago) |
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2017 The seven angels with seven trumpets, and the angel with a censer, from the Bamberg Apocalypse. Seven trumpets are sounded, one at a time, to cue apocalyptic events that were seen in the vision of the Revelation of Christ Jesus, by John of Patmos, as written in the Book of Revelation of the New Testament.
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The only reason why T-rex's can't walk backwards is because they're extinct, which perfectly explains why there are no headaches in the rainforest; The parrots eat 'em all. My Drawings
Edited by wolfiewolfie (01/06/17 04:19 PM)
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LogicaL Chaos
Ascension Energy & Alien UFOs




Registered: 05/12/07
Posts: 69,370
Loc: The Inexpressible...
Last seen: 4 seconds
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Re: What horrible thing will 2017 be known for? [Re: wolfiewolfie]
#23987365 - 01/06/17 06:22 PM (7 years, 24 days ago) |
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My God.
It was written.
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Senor_Doobie
Snake Pit Champion


Registered: 08/11/99
Posts: 22,678
Loc: Trump Train
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Re: What horrible thing will 2017 be known for? [Re: PatrickKn]
#23987587 - 01/06/17 07:46 PM (7 years, 24 days ago) |
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It's hard to say without actually reading the law. She says "no". He says "yes".
-------------------- "America: Fuck yeah!" -- Alexthegreat “Nothing can now be believed which is seen in a newspaper. Truth itself becomes suspicious by being put into that polluted vehicle. The real extent of this state of misinformation is known only to those who are in situations to confront facts within their knowledge with the lies of the day.” -- Thomas Jefferson The greatest sin of mankind is ignorance. The press takes [Trump] literally, but not seriously; his supporters take him seriously, but not literally. --Salena Zeto (9/23/16)
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blackdragon999
Mason


Registered: 07/17/06
Posts: 202
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Re: What horrible thing will 2017 be known for? [Re: Repertoire89]
#23987936 - 01/06/17 10:08 PM (7 years, 24 days ago) |
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Quote:
Repertoire89 said:
Quote:
blackdragon999 said:
Quote:
Senor_Doobie said: It's disgusting.
What is a suitable solution?
You two could try going back to college and taking reading comprehension courses, I hear that helps.
Thank you for the offer, I appreciate that. I am not sure that reading comprehension is an actual college course(not that I have knowledge of anyway). The most common course I know of in English Speaking cultures is "English Composition", which is usually the basic course.
It has been many years since I have attended college but if you are willing to pay for the courses I am very much obliged to retake those courses. The last time I took them was quite possibly before you were born so I would appreciate the opportunity to refresh my education.
Paypal works good, I don't accept check because I am a bit weary of giving out my mail address on here, I'm sure you understand. I will have to check but I think the courses are upwards of about $3000 each. I will contact you again with details. Thank you, and have a nice day!
P.S.
Quote:
You two could try going back to college and taking take reading comprehension courses, I hear that helps.
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Edited by blackdragon999 (01/06/17 10:18 PM)
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blackdragon999
Mason


Registered: 07/17/06
Posts: 202
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Re: What horrible thing will 2017 be known for? [Re: psi]
#23987993 - 01/06/17 10:28 PM (7 years, 24 days ago) |
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Quote:
psi said:
Quote:
blackdragon999 said:
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Senor_Doobie said: And the solution to that is to make it legal.
Legal for the minor perhaps but the legal guardian would be held liable if the child is evolved in sex trafficking with their knowledge. If the court determines that the minor is unable to return to a suitable legal guardian (whether a crime is committed by the minor or not) that minor becomes a ward of the state.(In The United States)
And presumably the client would still be committing multiple crimes.
Obviously the police do need to have sufficient powers to intervene. I don't think that giving them the power to lay criminal charges against the victim is a necessary requirement to achieve that.
That of course depends on the situation...child trafficking is in a league all to its own when it comes to prostitution. Charged for being a sex slave is not right...arrested for being a 15 year old working the street on her own free will...yes, charge her for prostitution.
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psi
TOAST N' JAM


Registered: 09/05/99
Posts: 31,456
Loc: 613
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Re: What horrible thing will 2017 be known for? [Re: blackdragon999]
#23988119 - 01/06/17 11:14 PM (7 years, 24 days ago) |
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Quote:
blackdragon999 said: arrested for being a 15 year old working the street on her own free will...yes, charge her for prostitution.
Why though? IMO the real criminal there is the adult client taking advantage of a child's poor decision making skills, probably with desperation for money on top of that. This is also why age of consent laws are in place. The discrepancy in mental capacity is so great that it's inherently exploitative on the adult's part.
The victim of the client's crime is the child. The victim of the child's "crime" is... the child.
Compare also to regular prostitution, where everyone's an adult and potentially there is no victim at all. If there is, it's probably the prostitute being abused by a pimp or a client (and having no legal recourse because their own activities are considered criminal.)
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Prisoner#1
Even Dumber ThanAdvertized!


Registered: 01/22/03
Posts: 193,665
Loc: Pvt. Pubfag NutSuck
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Re: What horrible thing will 2017 be known for? [Re: stzacrack]
#23988137 - 01/06/17 11:19 PM (7 years, 24 days ago) |
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Quote:
stzacrack said:
Quote:
Asante said: 1917's worst event was introduction of mustard gas in the Great War by the Germans in Ypres in July.
2017, Trump's Presidency?
What's with your incessant fear of trump?
he's the liberal hate machine
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blackdragon999
Mason


Registered: 07/17/06
Posts: 202
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Re: What horrible thing will 2017 be known for? [Re: psi]
#23988186 - 01/06/17 11:34 PM (7 years, 24 days ago) |
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Quote:
psi said:
Quote:
blackdragon999 said: arrested for being a 15 year old working the street on her own free will...yes, charge her for prostitution.
Why though? IMO the real criminal there is the adult client taking advantage of a child's poor decision making skills, probably with desperation for money on top of that. This is also why age of consent laws are in place. The discrepancy in mental capacity is so great that it's inherently exploitative on the adult's part.
The victim of the client's crime is the child. The victim of the child's "crime" is... the child.
Compare also to regular prostitution, where everyone's an adult and potentially there is no victim at all. If there is, it's probably the prostitute being abused by a pimp or a client (and having no legal recourse because their own activities are considered criminal.)
To be fair, the client and the prostitute should both be charged. When you commit a crime (even if you are 15 years old) it is still a crime. Compared with regular prostitution BOTH the client and prostitute would be charged as well.
If it makes you feel any better, you could charge the parents for child abuse too for allowing their 15 year old child to wander the streets at night. Making it legal for children to sell their bodies to strangers knowing there are no repercussions for them is completely inexcusable.
That way when they have an adult buy them alcohol so they can get drunk and drive their car over a bunch of 3rd graders...but when they are sitting in front of the judge all they have to say is: "buuht ittzz muh poor decision making skills" it was that evil adult buying me alcohol...
Consensual Prostitution is a crime in most western countries, it should apply to everyone involved. Like I said before...the exception is sex trafficking and it is different and there should be special laws protecting people that a subject to that type of abuse. Being forced to commit a crime against your will is a different issue than prostitution itself. But if you are the one making the choice to commit a crime...it is to late to pull the victim card at that point.
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Edited by blackdragon999 (01/06/17 11:50 PM)
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Prisoner#1
Even Dumber ThanAdvertized!


Registered: 01/22/03
Posts: 193,665
Loc: Pvt. Pubfag NutSuck
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Re: What horrible thing will 2017 be known for? [Re: blackdragon999] 1
#23988202 - 01/06/17 11:43 PM (7 years, 24 days ago) |
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Quote:
blackdragon999 said: Consensual Prostitution is a crime in most western countries, it should apply to everyone involved.
do you believe it should be a crime?
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blackdragon999
Mason


Registered: 07/17/06
Posts: 202
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Re: What horrible thing will 2017 be known for? [Re: Prisoner#1] 1
#23988223 - 01/06/17 11:55 PM (7 years, 24 days ago) |
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Quote:
Prisoner#1 said:
Quote:
blackdragon999 said: Consensual Prostitution is a crime in most western countries, it should apply to everyone involved.
do you believe it should be a crime?
For consenting adults, no. Being hired as an adult actor/actress in adult movies is almost the same situation...and that is legal. But I believe that there should be certain protections in any line of work.
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howsyournaggerdoin
Happy


Registered: 02/04/16
Posts: 1,600
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Re: What horrible thing will 2017 be known for? [Re: Prisoner#1]
#23994296 - 01/09/17 02:13 AM (7 years, 21 days ago) |
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Quote:
blackdragon999 said: Consensual Prostitution is a crime in most western countries
Not true
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Prostitution_by_country
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