|
Some of these posts are very old and might contain outdated information. You may wish to search for newer posts instead.
|
natedawgnow
Rocky mountain hood rat



Registered: 02/09/15
Posts: 8,939
Loc: ation
|
Testing cultures? Bacterial spawn? Limited Space? Dawgy Bag it! 4
#23981421 - 01/04/17 01:10 PM (7 years, 26 days ago) |
|
|
Dawgy Bags A simple, low waste approach to testing cultures and dealing with less than optimal spawnWhat's up every one! So I altered this post a little bit to be more encompassing as I realized these are also a great way to test out clone/isolate cultures! Let's say you have 15 cultures to test out, do you really want to make 15 mini tubs? What a pain in the ass, right? Well these bags are great for testing cultures as they are their own fruiting chambers and require very little maintenance. I also see a lot of bacterial spawn posts here on the boards. No one wants to expand it, some people say to just throw it out even. Most will say it's ok to spawn it but spawn it alone and separately from everything else. Ok, so what are your options? Spawn it to a mini tub? That takes up a lot of space for just 1 or 2 jars. You can top fruit the jar; but now you can't use it for more spawn for another couple weeks. I don't have a million jars so I like to flip mine as fast as possible. Another thing about me is I like to reuse and reduce when I can. Enter Dawgy Bags. Spawn bags can be used more than once. Cook some grain and then after you spawn the grain, you can re-use the bag to spawn your bacterial grain jars for a super simple colonization/fruiting chamber. Or just dedicate a couple bags specifically for this purpose. They make great fruiting chambers. After full colonization, just cut a couple slits in the bag or even just open the bag and keep it open for a good majority of the day, either way works. I've even left the bags closed with no air exchange other than the filter patch till harvest. Some pics: Bacterial spawn Had a bacterial outbreak after a G2G or the master had some hidden bacteria, either way I had 6 bacterial jars and didn't want to just chuck em. Here is the first jar spawned to 1qt of CVG. You can use excess cvg or just make enough for a couple quarts, or however many you need. I just measure out a quart give or take of sub for each bag. A little more never hurt.   Plenty of pins in this bag. Colonized in 4 days and it's been in fruiting since the 30th. Not too bad for a bacterial quart. The other bags I just spawned the other night after some consolidation as I've been pretty busy the past week   Old grow where I tried to make a bag/mono hybrid  It worked just not the best Top fruiting vs. Bags/Cased vs. Uncased: So I decided to do a comparison since these jars are all from the same clone, and I decided to case and top fruit a jar along side the dawgy bags. Here is a pic of the jar along with a couple pics of dawgy bags, one cased and one uncased, to test and see which way the culture prefers. cased jar:  Cased bag:  Uncased bag:  As you can see, the jar, although cased a few days after the bags were spawned, is far behind the bags. The cased bag has a much more uniform pinset and much more knots than the uncased bag as well. Only thing left is to see if the cased bag yields more than the 1st bag I harvested which was uncased and put out 327 fresh grams 1st flush! Hard to beat but maybe! Once you are ready to harvest just twist and pull them out or you can remove the whole block from the bag. To dunk, just pour a little water in the bag and twist it to keep the block from floating. You may not wish to dunk and just pitch after the first flush depending on how bad your jars were. These bags take up very little space. You can just put them on a shelf, on the table, hang them in the closet, or put them on the floor in the corner. So if you're like me and you have reservations about throwing out jars that can still produce, or are low on space for clone testing, give this a try! It works with oven bags also if you don't use spawn bags and don't feel like buying them anytime soon. Grow UpdateBag 1   Bag 2 (cased comparison bag)   Bag 3  Forgot to get the canopy and final wet weight shot of this one but it was over 400g fresh Bag 4   Bag 5   Bag 6   Results: Bag 1 did the worst, which was surprising seeing as it got the most FAE since I cut slits into that bag. I am kind of baffled by it to be honest, This culture must like less FAE  The cased bag did the best at 435g, but it really wasn't that much better than the others. I'll come back with total harvest dry weight later today when the last bag finishes drying! The jar really shit the bed and has a crappy pinset, I'll post photos of that later as well
Edited by natedawgnow (01/23/17 11:19 AM)
|
natedawgnow
Rocky mountain hood rat



Registered: 02/09/15
Posts: 8,939
Loc: ation
|
Re: Bacterial spawn? Dawgy Bag it! [Re: natedawgnow]
#23993443 - 01/08/17 07:14 PM (7 years, 22 days ago) |
|
|
Bag 1: PE6
 
I'll probably harvest this flush tomorrow. The veils that have broken already are sporeless so I don't think there will be a sporesplosion.
I'll update with total harvest weights to show that bacterial spawn can still produce well enough if you don't want to throw it out
--------------------
|
natedawgnow
Rocky mountain hood rat



Registered: 02/09/15
Posts: 8,939
Loc: ation
|
Re: Bacterial spawn? Dawgy Bag it! [Re: natedawgnow]
#23994775 - 01/09/17 10:21 AM (7 years, 21 days ago) |
|
|
Even though I'm the only one following this thread, I'm still gonna update it for any one who is interested in a no waste approach to cult.
So here are some pre/post harvest and wet weight pics for you guys
canopy shot


And wet weight

So that's 327 wet grams for 1 bacterial qt of spawn, left over bucket tek cvg, and a used spawn bag. That is over 100% BE with no other fruiting chamber but the bag itself and some, what amounts to, leftover garbage
I still have 5 more bags to go. Those are actual spawn bags that I dedicated to this purpose, but they will be reused over and over after this grow. They can be washed out or you can even pc them to clean them. Just roll them up and stick them in a jar during your normal grain run
--------------------
|
Pezam
Edible Warrior



Registered: 01/01/17
Posts: 97
Last seen: 6 years, 9 months
|
Re: Bacterial spawn? Dawgy Bag it! [Re: natedawgnow]
#23994860 - 01/09/17 11:02 AM (7 years, 21 days ago) |
|
|
I agree with your mindest, though I grow for bulk so it's worth it to weed out ANY contamination. Anything with bacteria goes in the outdoor patch. Cheers
--------------------
|
fatmatic
Stranger


Registered: 12/23/16
Posts: 46
Last seen: 6 years, 8 months
|
Re: Bacterial spawn? Dawgy Bag it! [Re: natedawgnow]
#23994861 - 01/09/17 11:03 AM (7 years, 21 days ago) |
|
|
Could you just use ziplock bags as well if you have them laying around? I think I have a couple bacterial quart jars that I just dont want to throw out.
|
mushboy
modboy



Registered: 04/24/05
Posts: 32,281
Loc: where?
|
Re: Bacterial spawn? Dawgy Bag it! [Re: Pezam]
#23994869 - 01/09/17 11:05 AM (7 years, 21 days ago) |
|
|
are those home made 'choke bags' i might be reading the OP wrong. i used them before(14years ago) and had similar results.
|
natedawgnow
Rocky mountain hood rat



Registered: 02/09/15
Posts: 8,939
Loc: ation
|
Re: Bacterial spawn? Dawgy Bag it! [Re: mushboy]
#23994899 - 01/09/17 11:14 AM (7 years, 21 days ago) |
|
|
No they are spawn bags. You can get them from any sponsor or ebay. I am reusing them for the purpose of spawning bacterial spawn. I find I get more out of the quart first flush if I spawn it this way vs. top fruiting the jar and it frees up the jar for more projects.
I actually have a cased jar of the same clone going right now just to compare first flush weights.
You can use any kind of bag for this, from big ziplocks to oven bags and grocery bags. I use spawn bags for bulk and I see no reason to throw them away if they can be repurposed. Our hobby has a lot of waste as it is.
Pezam, I grow for bulk too, but not everyone has the ability to just put their stuff outside. A lot of people live in rented homes/apartments and do not feel comfortable with a contam pile, but also don't want to just throw their spawn out if it can still produce, ya know?
--------------------
|
Kenetic
Nam Sayin



Registered: 08/24/14
Posts: 4,389
Loc: I don't believe in land
Last seen: 5 years, 3 months
|
Re: Bacterial spawn? Dawgy Bag it! [Re: natedawgnow]
#23995031 - 01/09/17 12:03 PM (7 years, 21 days ago) |
|
|

Will have more to say after work but hell yeah
-------------------- Todo Cambia    DMT said: Everyone know's me, they just don't know it yet
|
mushboy
modboy



Registered: 04/24/05
Posts: 32,281
Loc: where?
|
Re: Bacterial spawn? Dawgy Bag it! [Re: Kenetic]
#23995033 - 01/09/17 12:04 PM (7 years, 21 days ago) |
|
|
Quote:
natedawgnow said: I find I get more out of the quart first flush if I spawn it this way vs. top fruiting the jar and it frees up the jar for more projects.
cant argue with that
|
freespeech
disciple



Registered: 12/12/08
Posts: 1,745
Loc: PNW
|
Re: Bacterial spawn? Dawgy Bag it! [Re: mushboy]
#23995101 - 01/09/17 12:28 PM (7 years, 21 days ago) |
|
|
Cool easy and low-effort tek 
|
natedawgnow
Rocky mountain hood rat



Registered: 02/09/15
Posts: 8,939
Loc: ation
|
Re: Bacterial spawn? Dawgy Bag it! [Re: freespeech]
#23995179 - 01/09/17 01:02 PM (7 years, 21 days ago) |
|
|
Thanks guys!
--------------------
|
mushboy
modboy



Registered: 04/24/05
Posts: 32,281
Loc: where?
|
Re: Bacterial spawn? Dawgy Bag it! [Re: natedawgnow]
#23995203 - 01/09/17 01:11 PM (7 years, 21 days ago) |
|
|
how do you get the BE %%??
|
natedawgnow
Rocky mountain hood rat



Registered: 02/09/15
Posts: 8,939
Loc: ation
|
Re: Bacterial spawn? Dawgy Bag it! [Re: mushboy]
#23995210 - 01/09/17 01:15 PM (7 years, 21 days ago) |
|
|
That's going by our definition of BE, which is one oz mush per quart of spawn.
327 grams going by the 10% dry weight rule should be around 32 grams, which is over one oz. Plus the spawn was bacterial so it technically should have produced less than optimal, but it produced better than optimal in nothing but a spawn bag as a fruiting chamber.
--------------------
|
mushboy
modboy



Registered: 04/24/05
Posts: 32,281
Loc: where?
|
Re: Bacterial spawn? Dawgy Bag it! [Re: natedawgnow]
#23995218 - 01/09/17 01:18 PM (7 years, 21 days ago) |
|
|
Quote:
natedawgnow said: That's going by our definition of BE, which is one oz mush per quart of spawn.
gotcha thanks.
|
natedawgnow
Rocky mountain hood rat



Registered: 02/09/15
Posts: 8,939
Loc: ation
|
Re: Bacterial spawn? Dawgy Bag it! [Re: mushboy]
#23995229 - 01/09/17 01:21 PM (7 years, 21 days ago) |
|
|
Ya sorry I guess I should have been more specific in that quote.
Our definition of 100% BE is one ounce per quart of spawn. anything over 1 ounce is over 100% BE.
To calculate actual biological efficiency, you divide the total yield of fresh mushrooms by the dry weight of substrate used then multiply by 100.
--------------------
|
blackout


Registered: 07/16/00
Posts: 5,266
Last seen: 2 months, 25 days
|
Re: Bacterial spawn? Dawgy Bag it! [Re: natedawgnow]
#23995241 - 01/09/17 01:26 PM (7 years, 21 days ago) |
|
|
Have you any pics of the bacterial jars before you spawned them? My understanding of the theory of casing jars/top fruiting jars is that you do not disturb the mycelium colony below as it is unlikely to recover if it was spawned or shaken -shaking jars being a common test to see if a jar is fucked.
I was expecting to see some technique for removing the grains with minimal breaking up, and just casing them, rather than mixing right up.
If its a very mild contamination you might get away with it of course, I just want others thinking of doing it to see how the jars looked.
One test I do rather than shaking the entire jar is to just tap it enough to disturb the top layer of grains, and see if it recovers. If there is no recovery I can scoop out those top grains and case
I like the idea of freeing up jars. I have many plastic containers which tend to be tapered, so I could "birth" them as a solid mass and put them into a similar size container, like a flower pot or some other plastic container which might not be heat resistant.
|
natedawgnow
Rocky mountain hood rat



Registered: 02/09/15
Posts: 8,939
Loc: ation
|
Re: Bacterial spawn? Dawgy Bag it! [Re: blackout]
#23995392 - 01/09/17 02:19 PM (7 years, 21 days ago) |
|
|
They were pretty bad. Lots of liquid in the bottom and hard to break up.
I even used a spoon for 2 of them. I'll see if I can get a pic of the liquid in the jar on the top fruited jar. The contamination is definitely what most would consider past the point of mild.
I definitely should have included the pics of the jars originally but I had the idea for the post after spawning them
--------------------
Edited by natedawgnow (01/09/17 02:20 PM)
|
mushboy
modboy



Registered: 04/24/05
Posts: 32,281
Loc: where?
|
Re: Bacterial spawn? Dawgy Bag it! [Re: natedawgnow]
#23995398 - 01/09/17 02:22 PM (7 years, 21 days ago) |
|
|
that bacterial and it grew on the cvg? usually just with 'grains up on glass look' it goes green on me if i try to spawn. i top fruited a few and got something but nothing like your dawgy bag.
|
natedawgnow
Rocky mountain hood rat



Registered: 02/09/15
Posts: 8,939
Loc: ation
|
Re: Bacterial spawn? Dawgy Bag it! [Re: natedawgnow]
#23995409 - 01/09/17 02:29 PM (7 years, 21 days ago) |
|
|
So this is the top fruited comparison jar from the same batch
You can see all the wet grains and the thick mycelium

In this pic you can clearly see the standing slimy water line in the jar

I should mention that I did use a spoon to break up a couple of the jars, thanks for the reminder blackout 
The rest though were shaken and they still recovered just fine
--------------------
|
mushboy
modboy



Registered: 04/24/05
Posts: 32,281
Loc: where?
|
Re: Bacterial spawn? Dawgy Bag it! [Re: natedawgnow]
#23995422 - 01/09/17 02:36 PM (7 years, 21 days ago) |
|
|
i accidentally bought gigantic spawn bags and i have 3 quarts left of old bacterial leftovers from the last MS grows..
i will be doing this in a few days with one of those jars.
|
blackout


Registered: 07/16/00
Posts: 5,266
Last seen: 2 months, 25 days
|
Re: Bacterial spawn? Dawgy Bag it! [Re: natedawgnow]
#23995431 - 01/09/17 02:40 PM (7 years, 21 days ago) |
|
|
Quote:
natedawgnow said: They were pretty bad. Lots of liquid in the bottom and hard to break up.
were these jars old by any chance? I remember mycofile posting these pics of "overincubated grains" which he said lead to very potent shrooms
Quote:
mycofile said:
Quote:
Allowing your spawn to incubate for months after colonization is NOT a good thing, no matter who tells you different
Naw, you're right. Incubating spawn for months is a bad thing. It ends up pissing all over itself like this:

Yeah, Who would use such nasty looking spawn? I mean, who cares if it can grow the most potent shrooms you've ever dreamed about? The flushes are bound to be wimpy, right? I mean, didn't stamets say that spawn MUST be refrigerated if it can't be used at peak vitality (within just a few days of colonization)? And didn't he have some ominous warning for people who dared to do differently? Well, I read his words too. And I expected fruits from over-incubated spawn to be pidly, low yielding, mutated, and generally fucked up. Well, then explain this, which came from that bag above:

Don't believe everything you read, try it for yourself. Unless you still have some theoretical reason why over-incubation is bad?
EDIT: just see the previous posts now, they do not look particularly old.
Edited by blackout (01/09/17 02:42 PM)
|
natedawgnow
Rocky mountain hood rat



Registered: 02/09/15
Posts: 8,939
Loc: ation
|
Re: Bacterial spawn? Dawgy Bag it! [Re: blackout]
#23995446 - 01/09/17 02:48 PM (7 years, 21 days ago) |
|
|
Yes and no. The first jar, which is responsible for the bag above, was not consolidated at all. It was showing signs of bacteria before it ever finished colonizing, I spawned it as soon as it finished.
The other 5 that I spawned were consolidated about a week because I was busy and didn't get around to spawning. They were all part of the same G2G and all showed signs of bacteria before 100% completion.
The comparison jar IS over consolidated, as I just cased it a few days ago. But still, not that long. And it showed signs of bacteria long before colonization just like the others, just it's had a little while longer to run its course since it's still in the jar.
Now this is also not the first time I've done this, but it is the first time I can do an actual comparison with a clone culture. Based on first flush yield alone and being able to just reuse items and free up jars is a plus in my book.
--------------------
Edited by natedawgnow (01/09/17 02:49 PM)
|
Kenetic
Nam Sayin



Registered: 08/24/14
Posts: 4,389
Loc: I don't believe in land
Last seen: 5 years, 3 months
|
Re: Bacterial spawn? Dawgy Bag it! [Re: natedawgnow]
#23995535 - 01/09/17 03:29 PM (7 years, 21 days ago) |
|
|
I think it's an excellent idea. You have nothing to lose and the possibility to gain and the tek is not excessively complicated. My top fruited jars suck and while I know some people have excellent yields, I'm not a tc or anything and generally don't always get full canopies. I do spend a good amount of time prepping grains and jars though, and it really sucks to throw away bacterial jars after going through all that.
The bacteria we deal with, unlike mold, don't generally produce spores that spread throughout the air and your house and ruin future grows. They're pretty much self-contained within whatever they inhabit. They also die off fairly quickly in open air
Too bad I'm moving this week and yesterday I just threw away SEVEN old bacterial quarts I didn't want to spawn......
-------------------- Todo Cambia    DMT said: Everyone know's me, they just don't know it yet
|
ComebackKid
Multispore Enthusiast



Registered: 05/27/16
Posts: 3,951
Loc: ked in the trunk of a car
|
Re: Bacterial spawn? Dawgy Bag it! [Re: Kenetic]
#23996270 - 01/09/17 07:09 PM (7 years, 21 days ago) |
|
|
Dawgy bag clever name! Definitely a good idea if you need to free up some jars in a pinch!
--------------------
Substrate surface conditions / Monotub prep and care
Look around you... Everything you see exists inside the mind. Consciousness, the awareness that is experiencing this mind, is peering in from outside the universe. Our individual experiences are all part of the universe's experience of itself
|
Pezam
Edible Warrior



Registered: 01/01/17
Posts: 97
Last seen: 6 years, 9 months
|
Re: Bacterial spawn? Dawgy Bag it! [Re: natedawgnow]
#23996570 - 01/09/17 08:49 PM (7 years, 21 days ago) |
|
|
Quote:
natedawgnow said: That's going by our definition of BE, which is one oz mush per quart of spawn.
327 grams going by the 10% dry weight rule should be around 32 grams, which is over one oz. Plus the spawn was bacterial so it technically should have produced less than optimal, but it produced better than optimal in nothing but a spawn bag as a fruiting chamber.
Well played.
--------------------
|
natedawgnow
Rocky mountain hood rat



Registered: 02/09/15
Posts: 8,939
Loc: ation
|
Re: Bacterial spawn? Dawgy Bag it! [Re: Pezam]
#24010709 - 01/14/17 08:03 PM (7 years, 16 days ago) |
|
|
Updated the op and changed the title to make it a little more detailed and inclusive!
--------------------
|
natedawgnow
Rocky mountain hood rat



Registered: 02/09/15
Posts: 8,939
Loc: ation
|
Re:Testing Cultures? Bacterial spawn? Limited Space? Dawgy Bag it! [Re: natedawgnow] 1
#24025457 - 01/20/17 12:05 PM (7 years, 10 days ago) |
|
|
Update:
Cased bag did better than the uncased for sure, which is good cause i cased the tub of the same culture i'm running at the moment



The difference with these bags and the first bag I did is that these were unmodified. No slits were cut and the bag was just left open for a good portion of the day with light mistings here and there.
Here are a couple uncased bags
 This one didn't do too bad. The difference between the uncased bags with slits cut and uncased bags with no slits is definitely noticeable! Uncased with slits cut did much better. I can only imagine how the cased bag would have done if I cut slits in it's bag
This bag and another bag are pretty far behind. I think they may have been more bacterial than the others as they are showing more signs of stress
 The other has about the same pinset but my phone died so I can't get pics of it quite yet
Here's the cased jar comparison. As you can see it is much slower than the bags and a lot less dense of a pinset, plus the jar has been occupied now for a few weeks.
--------------------
Edited by natedawgnow (01/20/17 12:23 PM)
|
Kenetic
Nam Sayin



Registered: 08/24/14
Posts: 4,389
Loc: I don't believe in land
Last seen: 5 years, 3 months
|
Re: Bacterial spawn? Dawgy Bag it! [Re: natedawgnow]
#24025489 - 01/20/17 12:21 PM (7 years, 10 days ago) |
|
|
Excellent work!
-------------------- Todo Cambia    DMT said: Everyone know's me, they just don't know it yet
|
natedawgnow
Rocky mountain hood rat



Registered: 02/09/15
Posts: 8,939
Loc: ation
|
Re: Bacterial spawn? Dawgy Bag it! [Re: Kenetic]
#24025587 - 01/20/17 01:02 PM (7 years, 10 days ago) |
|
|
Thanks man
--------------------
|
Thedenthead



Registered: 04/19/16
Posts: 531
Last seen: 4 months, 27 days
|
Re: Bacterial spawn? Dawgy Bag it! [Re: natedawgnow]
#24028052 - 01/21/17 11:52 AM (7 years, 9 days ago) |
|
|
These seem like viable candidates for a dawgy bag?
-------------------- Nothing but my meandering thoughts.
An ounce of prevention is worth a pound of cure.
|
natedawgnow
Rocky mountain hood rat



Registered: 02/09/15
Posts: 8,939
Loc: ation
|
Re: Bacterial spawn? Dawgy Bag it! [Re: Thedenthead]
#24028074 - 01/21/17 12:05 PM (7 years, 9 days ago) |
|
|
Do it up, mange!!
Those seem a little on the bacterial side but not so bad that they won't recover in a bag. Go for it and post up your results here if you want!
Update:
from this

To this

In 24 hours

So far, each bag has put out almost 1.5oz from 1 qt of spawn each
--------------------
Edited by natedawgnow (01/21/17 03:39 PM)
|
Thedenthead



Registered: 04/19/16
Posts: 531
Last seen: 4 months, 27 days
|
Re: Bacterial spawn? Dawgy Bag it! [Re: Thedenthead]
#24028244 - 01/21/17 01:38 PM (7 years, 9 days ago) |
|
|
I'll keep ya posted. Bought a different brand of WBS for these jars and it had way too much cracked corn, turned to shit. Be nice to salvage em somewhat.
-------------------- Nothing but my meandering thoughts.
An ounce of prevention is worth a pound of cure.
|
Thedillestpickle
cultured



Registered: 02/02/16
Posts: 1,170
Loc: Canada
Last seen: 3 years, 7 months
|
Re: Bacterial spawn? Dawgy Bag it! [Re: Thedenthead]
#24029221 - 01/21/17 09:44 PM (7 years, 9 days ago) |
|
|
Good idea, might have to try this out rather than dump my sub-par spawn.
Do you just prep a bucket tek and use it as needed/ store until needed again? If i prep a a full bucket I'll have leftovers that may sit for a few weeks. Might go bad, but I guess it's worth a shot.
|
natedawgnow
Rocky mountain hood rat



Registered: 02/09/15
Posts: 8,939
Loc: ation
|
|
No, it shouldn't go bad. That is what this tek is meant for. A low waste approach and an easy way to test cultures and make use of less than optimal spawn. For the first bag, I used nothing but left over bucket tek coir that I added a bit of water to in order to get it back to capacity. All bags were made with bacterial spawn.
The other 5 bags were made by breaking off a small portion of a brick, enough for 4 hydrated quarts before verm and gypsum were added, bacterial spawn (same clone) and that's it.
--------------------
|
blindingleaf
blue collar underworld


Registered: 07/19/13
Posts: 22,008
Loc: sub-surface unseen
|
Re: Bacterial spawn? Dawgy Bag it! [Re: natedawgnow]
#24029627 - 01/22/17 03:42 AM (7 years, 8 days ago) |
|
|
Quote:
natedawgnow said: from this

To this

In 24 hours

So far, each bag has put out almost 1.5oz from 1 qt of spawn each 
nice dude
-------------------- A few thoughts on cultivation MICROBIAL HUSBANDRY!!!! The whole is greater than the sum of its parts
|
natedawgnow
Rocky mountain hood rat



Registered: 02/09/15
Posts: 8,939
Loc: ation
|
Re: Bacterial spawn? Dawgy Bag it! [Re: blindingleaf]
#24033026 - 01/23/17 11:21 AM (7 years, 7 days ago) |
|
|
Ok guys all the bags finished up and the op is updated with pics and wet weights of each bag.
Final wet weight harvest totaled 2354.4 grams for roughly 6 quarts of spawn I'll come and update with the dry weight once the last bag finishes drying
--------------------
|
wildernessjunkie
Reshitivest


Registered: 06/13/10
Posts: 8,118
Loc: HTTP 404 Not Found
|
Re: Bacterial spawn? Dawgy Bag it! [Re: natedawgnow] 1
#24033270 - 01/23/17 01:35 PM (7 years, 7 days ago) |
|
|
Fruiting in the bag is awesome, been doing it for a long time. Simple and low cost, though there is a waste factor involved.
One note about your Biologic Efficiency though.
Quote:
Biological efficiency of a yield is calculated by the fresh weight harvest over dry substrate weight used.
100 grams fresh yield 100 grams dry substrate = 100% BE
It's not about the quart, it's about the weight of dry substrate.
|
mushboy
modboy



Registered: 04/24/05
Posts: 32,281
Loc: where?
|
|
Quote:
wildernessjunkie said: Fruiting in the bag is awesome, been doing it for a long time. Simple and low cost, though there is a waste factor involved.
One note about your Biologic Efficiency though.
Quote:
Biological efficiency of a yield is calculated by the fresh weight harvest over dry substrate weight used.
100 grams fresh yield 100 grams dry substrate = 100% BE
It's not about the quart, it's about the weight of dry substrate.
d'oh. i thought it was based off volume.. so its weight????.. gotcha. is it relative to each grain? how do you calculate each one? or do we not do that BS hence me thinking it was based of 1 quart per oz..????
fakk
|
natedawgnow
Rocky mountain hood rat



Registered: 02/09/15
Posts: 8,939
Loc: ation
|
|
Quote:
wildernessjunkie said: Fruiting in the bag is awesome, been doing it for a long time. Simple and low cost, though there is a waste factor involved.
One note about your Biologic Efficiency though.
Quote:
Biological efficiency of a yield is calculated by the fresh weight harvest over dry substrate weight used.
100 grams fresh yield 100 grams dry substrate = 100% BE
It's not about the quart, it's about the weight of dry substrate.
If you had read my next comment after that one, I say that OUR definition is that 1qt=1oz for 100% BE, but in actuality it is the equation you just put. In psych mush cult, 1qt to 1oz is accepted as 100% BE.
Also, the whole point of this tek is to limit waste. I reuse every spawn bag I have. The first bag I pictured, the one at the top of the OP, is from a run I did 2 years ago...
--------------------
Edited by natedawgnow (01/23/17 02:39 PM)
|
natedawgnow
Rocky mountain hood rat



Registered: 02/09/15
Posts: 8,939
Loc: ation
|
Re: Bacterial spawn? Dawgy Bag it! [Re: natedawgnow]
#24033309 - 01/23/17 01:47 PM (7 years, 7 days ago) |
|
|
Quote:
natedawgnow said: Ya sorry I guess I should have been more specific in that quote.
Our definition of 100% BE is one ounce per quart of spawn. anything over 1 ounce is over 100% BE.
To calculate actual biological efficiency, you divide the total yield of fresh mushrooms by the dry weight of substrate used then multiply by 100.
--------------------
|
wildernessjunkie
Reshitivest


Registered: 06/13/10
Posts: 8,118
Loc: HTTP 404 Not Found
|
Re: Bacterial spawn? Dawgy Bag it! [Re: mushboy]
#24033314 - 01/23/17 01:49 PM (7 years, 7 days ago) |
|
|
Everything is a learning process.
If you're going to measure the BE then you need to know the dry weight of the total substrate. Best time to do that is in the beginning, before hydration.
You weren't wrong on the yield estimate though. Anything upwards of a dry Oz per quarter is decent enough.
|
natedawgnow
Rocky mountain hood rat



Registered: 02/09/15
Posts: 8,939
Loc: ation
|
|
Again reference my last comment.
This tek is about getting the most out of less than optimal spawn so you don't have to dump it out and also about reusing materials that you have lying around (i.e. old spawn bags, left over cvg, etc. etc.)
Pasty and many other tc's have said that the 1qt to 1oz ratio is a good enough estimate of 100% BE without having to do all the measurements prior to prep.
Thanks for viewing the thread though! (Even if you didn't read it )
--------------------
|
wildernessjunkie
Reshitivest


Registered: 06/13/10
Posts: 8,118
Loc: HTTP 404 Not Found
|
Re: Bacterial spawn? Dawgy Bag it! [Re: natedawgnow]
#24033414 - 01/23/17 02:34 PM (7 years, 7 days ago) |
|
|
I read it.
|
magicMerlin



Registered: 01/26/12
Posts: 617
Loc: Toronto
|
|
Great idea! I was about to case some grain jars I have doubts about but I think this is my route
|
natedawgnow
Rocky mountain hood rat



Registered: 02/09/15
Posts: 8,939
Loc: ation
|
Re: Bacterial spawn? Dawgy Bag it! [Re: magicMerlin]
#24040589 - 01/26/17 07:53 AM (7 years, 4 days ago) |
|
|
Thanks man i hope you do!
Update
So the cased jar shit the bed. It was fruited with a plastic bag over the top and the pinset was just awful.

I think the main reasons it didn't do so well are A) water available in the bags vs. The jar. The bags have a much higher water content.
B) the bags were spawned before the bacteria had a chance to multiply out of control. The jar has a half inch of goo in it now compared to just a little when i first cased it. The bags were spawned within a week of reaching 100% and i think this made it so the grains could colonize faster than the bacteria could. I have 2 bags still sitting on my table with NO mold whatsoever
My concensus, bacteria doesn't always lead to mold if you can spawn the jars before the bacteria can multiply out of hand. Also that not all bacterial infections were created equal.
If it is a really bad infection from the get go, you may not be able to spawn them. But if the jars reached 100% but are a bit bacterial, give this shit a try, you won't regret it
--------------------
|
mushpunx
Fungus Punk


Registered: 04/20/14
Posts: 13,394
Last seen: 11 days, 17 hours
|
Re: Bacterial spawn? Dawgy Bag it! [Re: natedawgnow]
#24040720 - 01/26/17 08:59 AM (7 years, 4 days ago) |
|
|
Some of my best flushes on BRF cakes are from when I've tossed out sketchy sub's into small plastic shopping bags and left the on my front porch. .
When I went to take out the garbage- boom! Couldnt fit another mushroom on those caked
--------------------
 Amateur Mycologists United AMU Q&A
|
magicMerlin



Registered: 01/26/12
Posts: 617
Loc: Toronto
|
Re: Bacterial spawn? Dawgy Bag it! [Re: mushpunx]
#24041361 - 01/26/17 01:53 PM (7 years, 4 days ago) |
|
|
4 quarts of questionable oats going to Dawgy bags today! I guess I never bought more filter patch bags when I ran out so I'll be using grocery bags. Excited to at least free up some jars!
|
Kenetic
Nam Sayin



Registered: 08/24/14
Posts: 4,389
Loc: I don't believe in land
Last seen: 5 years, 3 months
|
Re: Bacterial spawn? Dawgy Bag it! [Re: magicMerlin]
#24041542 - 01/26/17 02:50 PM (7 years, 4 days ago) |
|
|
I threw out like 7 quarts of spawn a half hour before he came out with this thread....
-------------------- Todo Cambia    DMT said: Everyone know's me, they just don't know it yet
|
mushboy
modboy



Registered: 04/24/05
Posts: 32,281
Loc: where?
|
Re: Bacterial spawn? Dawgy Bag it! [Re: mushpunx]
#24041591 - 01/26/17 03:09 PM (7 years, 4 days ago) |
|
|
Quote:
mushpunx said: Some of my best flushes on BRF cakes are from when I've tossed out sketchy sub's into small plastic shopping bags and left the on my front porch. .
When I went to take out the garbage- boom! Couldnt fit another mushroom on those caked 
cubes fruit in my garbage all the time!
|
2 cats freckles
Just wondering


Registered: 11/03/11
Posts: 256
Loc: Someplace West of Jesus a...
Last seen: 6 years, 2 months
|
Re: Testing cultures? Bacterial spawn? Limited Space? Dawgy Bag it! [Re: natedawgnow]
#24044971 - 01/27/17 07:33 PM (7 years, 3 days ago) |
|
|
Sorry to bother you, but I am returning to the Shroomery after a hiatus of some years. What happened to Mad Bags? How or where can I purchase bags containing substrate?
-------------------- When I looked up, the clouds shimmered....when I looked up again, they were gone, followed by the sound of distant shattering crystals
|
wildernessjunkie
Reshitivest


Registered: 06/13/10
Posts: 8,118
Loc: HTTP 404 Not Found
|
Re: Testing cultures? Bacterial spawn? Limited Space? Dawgy Bag it! [Re: 2 cats freckles] 1
#24044986 - 01/27/17 07:39 PM (7 years, 3 days ago) |
|
|
Quote:
2 cats freckles said: Sorry to bother you, but I am returning to the Shroomery after a hiatus of some years. What happened to Mad Bags? How or where can I purchase bags containing substrate?
Some of the sponsors have them. Off the top of my head I know that Out-Grow and High Mountain Compost both have them.
|
The Mycologist
Explorer

Registered: 05/06/16
Posts: 3,024
Last seen: 30 days, 8 hours
|
Re: Bacterial spawn? Dawgy Bag it! [Re: natedawgnow]
#24045012 - 01/27/17 07:54 PM (7 years, 3 days ago) |
|
|
You might want to use a different grain, might not have as many issues.
-------------------- "That you are here—that life exists, and identity; That the powerful play goes on, and you will contribute a verse.” ― Walt Whitman, Leaves of Grass

|
2 cats freckles
Just wondering


Registered: 11/03/11
Posts: 256
Loc: Someplace West of Jesus a...
Last seen: 6 years, 2 months
|
Re: Testing cultures? Bacterial spawn? Limited Space? Dawgy Bag it! [Re: wildernessjunkie]
#24045098 - 01/27/17 08:26 PM (7 years, 3 days ago) |
|
|
Thanks. I did some searching and found that there are some entities out there that have them, and that The Hawks Eye is now Mushrooms.com
-------------------- When I looked up, the clouds shimmered....when I looked up again, they were gone, followed by the sound of distant shattering crystals
|
natedawgnow
Rocky mountain hood rat



Registered: 02/09/15
Posts: 8,939
Loc: ation
|
|
Quote:
The Mycologist said: You might want to use a different grain, might not have as many issues.
I don't have a lot of issues with oats, just that I had a G2G go bad with bacteria, probably from myself or possibly hidden in the master jar.
On the other hand, I am officially done with this bag of oats and I'm thinking of making a switch Thinking of using millet or possibly rye if I can find it cheap enough in town
--------------------
|
ComebackKid
Multispore Enthusiast



Registered: 05/27/16
Posts: 3,951
Loc: ked in the trunk of a car
|
Re: Bacterial spawn? Dawgy Bag it! [Re: natedawgnow]
#24046102 - 01/28/17 10:19 AM (7 years, 2 days ago) |
|
|
It may be just pure luck but I haven't had any issues with wheat kernels yet. I have never had a reason to PC for more than 90 mins and all my runs before Christmas were all 11psi
Don't quote me on this but I have a feeling that wheat has a lower endospore count than other grains. May be worth switching to or at least giving it a shot. ...Or actually researching it rather than accepting a noobs assumptons based off a handful of grows
--------------------
Substrate surface conditions / Monotub prep and care
Look around you... Everything you see exists inside the mind. Consciousness, the awareness that is experiencing this mind, is peering in from outside the universe. Our individual experiences are all part of the universe's experience of itself
|
Cagney
Hanging with my Shroomy's


Registered: 09/12/16
Posts: 332
Last seen: 3 years, 11 months
|
Re: Bacterial spawn? Dawgy Bag it! [Re: ComebackKid]
#24081973 - 02/11/17 11:08 AM (6 years, 11 months ago) |
|
|
--------------------
"The time has come," the Walrus said, "To talk of many things: Of shoes--and ships--and sealing-wax-- Of cabbages--and kings-- And why the sea is boiling hot-- And whether pigs have wings."
|
shumer44


Registered: 11/15/16
Posts: 255
Last seen: 5 years, 11 months
|
Re: Bacterial spawn? Dawgy Bag it! [Re: Cagney]
#24082073 - 02/11/17 11:54 AM (6 years, 11 months ago) |
|
|
Is gypsum required in this tek?
|
Cagney
Hanging with my Shroomy's


Registered: 09/12/16
Posts: 332
Last seen: 3 years, 11 months
|
Re: Bacterial spawn? Dawgy Bag it! [Re: shumer44]
#24082082 - 02/11/17 12:02 PM (6 years, 11 months ago) |
|
|
I believe gypsum is optional mate
--------------------
"The time has come," the Walrus said, "To talk of many things: Of shoes--and ships--and sealing-wax-- Of cabbages--and kings-- And why the sea is boiling hot-- And whether pigs have wings."
|
shumer44


Registered: 11/15/16
Posts: 255
Last seen: 5 years, 11 months
|
Re: Bacterial spawn? Dawgy Bag it! [Re: shumer44]
#24082089 - 02/11/17 12:06 PM (6 years, 11 months ago) |
|
|
Alright. Then Im good to go then. Coz I had to travel far to get gypsum.
|
Cagney
Hanging with my Shroomy's


Registered: 09/12/16
Posts: 332
Last seen: 3 years, 11 months
|
Re: Bacterial spawn? Dawgy Bag it! [Re: shumer44]
#24082093 - 02/11/17 12:08 PM (6 years, 11 months ago) |
|
|
Yea many people use coffee grinds and or gypsum but it's a personal preference really, it's not required.
--------------------
"The time has come," the Walrus said, "To talk of many things: Of shoes--and ships--and sealing-wax-- Of cabbages--and kings-- And why the sea is boiling hot-- And whether pigs have wings."
|
natedawgnow
Rocky mountain hood rat



Registered: 02/09/15
Posts: 8,939
Loc: ation
|
Re: Bacterial spawn? Dawgy Bag it! [Re: Cagney]
#24083172 - 02/11/17 08:35 PM (6 years, 11 months ago) |
|
|
All those bags were made with cvg so ya they had gypsum but no it's not required
--------------------
|
shumer44


Registered: 11/15/16
Posts: 255
Last seen: 5 years, 11 months
|
Re: Bacterial spawn? Dawgy Bag it! [Re: natedawgnow]
#24098763 - 02/17/17 08:11 PM (6 years, 11 months ago) |
|
|
Are these the correct steps?
1. Get a huge ziplock bag, make a hole on side of it and tape it with micropore.
2. Put inside 1 quart of coir and throw in the spawn and mix it.
3. close the top of ziplock bag.
4. (NOT SURE ) cover the whole bag or maybe put it in dark place??
5. If the coir has been colonized, place the bags out in open.
|
natedawgnow
Rocky mountain hood rat



Registered: 02/09/15
Posts: 8,939
Loc: ation
|
Re: Bacterial spawn? Dawgy Bag it! [Re: shumer44]
#24098810 - 02/17/17 08:33 PM (6 years, 11 months ago) |
|
|
You do not have to poke holes in the bag at all if you don't want to. Only one of the bags in the OP had holes cut in them, the rest were just left with the tops open during the day and misted as needed.
No, do not put the bags in a dark place. On a table or shelf with regular indirect light is best.
When you are ready to fruit, open the tops of the bags or cut slits at sub level and towards the tops of the bags.
If you use ziplock bags, try to make the sub surface as flat as possible for better pinning
--------------------
|
shumer44


Registered: 11/15/16
Posts: 255
Last seen: 5 years, 11 months
|
Re: Bacterial spawn? Dawgy Bag it! [Re: natedawgnow]
#24098897 - 02/17/17 09:23 PM (6 years, 11 months ago) |
|
|
Quote:
natedawgnow said: You do not have to poke holes in the bag at all if you don't want to. Only one of the bags in the OP had holes cut in them, the rest were just left with the tops open during the day and misted as needed.
No, do not put the bags in a dark place. On a table or shelf with regular indirect light is best.
When you are ready to fruit, open the tops of the bags or cut slits at sub level and towards the tops of the bags.
If you use ziplock bags, try to make the sub surface as flat as possible for better pinning
Ok. So this is what I understood.
1. Get a big ziplock bag, put coir inside and spawn, mix them well, make the surface of the bag flat (not tight flat).
2. Close the ziplock bag from top. FULLY CLOSED.
3. After it has been colonized, just open fully the top of ziplock bags and wait, mist when needed.
|
magicMerlin



Registered: 01/26/12
Posts: 617
Loc: Toronto
|
Re: Bacterial spawn? Dawgy Bag it! [Re: shumer44] 1
#24112197 - 02/22/17 10:06 PM (6 years, 11 months ago) |
|
|
I made 3 Dawgybags with Target plastic bags. They fully colonized normal times but I had trouble using the plastic bag to fruit. I ended up cutting the bags like liners and tossing them in mini-monos and they all knotted within 2 days and 2 of the 3 are beginning to pin.
-------------------- My favorite threads
|
natedawgnow
Rocky mountain hood rat



Registered: 02/09/15
Posts: 8,939
Loc: ation
|
Re: Bacterial spawn? Dawgy Bag it! [Re: magicMerlin]
#24112245 - 02/22/17 10:27 PM (6 years, 11 months ago) |
|
|
Dialing in a shopping bag is definitely a little more difficult than spawn bags 
I would just leave the shopping bag open completely and mist regularly to get them to fruit but I'm glad they colonized and fruited for you regardless!
--------------------
|
magicMerlin



Registered: 01/26/12
Posts: 617
Loc: Toronto
|
Re: Bacterial spawn? Dawgy Bag it! [Re: natedawgnow]
#24112254 - 02/22/17 10:31 PM (6 years, 11 months ago) |
|
|
I tried that with one. I tied another bag up and cut holes which were patched with MP tape. The third bag I cut the handles off of and made some stupid tape contraption trying to get a big FAE port going on. I realized I was going to need to mist and I had it all taped up so that was kind of a factor when deciding to just throw them into minis
-------------------- My favorite threads
|
2 cats freckles
Just wondering


Registered: 11/03/11
Posts: 256
Loc: Someplace West of Jesus a...
Last seen: 6 years, 2 months
|
Re: Bacterial spawn? Dawgy Bag it! [Re: magicMerlin]
#24122006 - 02/26/17 07:12 PM (6 years, 10 months ago) |
|
|
Waiting for a big shipment of port bags, which I intend to inject with Penis Envy, B Plus, Golden Teachers, Ps Azurescens. Should be a good haul. Looking forward to it. Personal use only, not for sale.
-------------------- When I looked up, the clouds shimmered....when I looked up again, they were gone, followed by the sound of distant shattering crystals
|
Psicomb



Registered: 01/13/18
Posts: 4,636
Loc: the womb
|
Re: Testing cultures? Bacterial spawn? Limited Space? Dawgy Bag it! [Re: natedawgnow]
#24936627 - 01/23/18 04:16 PM (6 years, 7 days ago) |
|
|
Wow, this is great. I am definitely going to have to try this!
--------------------
When we constantly pull things apart trying to see how it works, we may end up with only an understanding of how to destroy something - nick sand
|
natedawgnow
Rocky mountain hood rat



Registered: 02/09/15
Posts: 8,939
Loc: ation
|
Re: Testing cultures? Bacterial spawn? Limited Space? Dawgy Bag it! [Re: Psicomb]
#24936731 - 01/23/18 04:56 PM (6 years, 7 days ago) |
|
|
--------------------
|
wtfcrazymofo
foil hater



Registered: 07/26/15
Posts: 1,201
Loc: Colonial alley
Last seen: 10 hours, 49 minutes
|
Re:Testing Cultures? Bacterial spawn? Limited Space? Dawgy Bag it! [Re: natedawgnow]
#24937165 - 01/23/18 07:06 PM (6 years, 7 days ago) |
|
|
Great simple Awesome post. Perfect name.
Quote:
natedawgnow said:

Is that like a V-tek?
Check out these Dawgey like bags. You can change the direction. http://www.fungi.com/product-detail/product/the-antler-reishi-mushroom-patch.html
-------------------- If you want to eat->https://www.shroomery.org/forums/showflat.php/Number/8553541 Bag sealers are to bulky (my hood isn't that big) https://www.shroomery.org/forums/showflat.php/Number/28622922
|
Germs
Space Force


Registered: 06/26/11
Posts: 4,607
Loc: Texas
|
Re:Testing Cultures? Bacterial spawn? Limited Space? Dawgy Bag it! [Re: wtfcrazymofo]
#24937228 - 01/23/18 07:30 PM (6 years, 7 days ago) |
|
|
Cool thread Nate, never seen this before great write up
--------------------
|
ImCurious
Snowy Owl



Registered: 06/04/18
Posts: 62
Last seen: 1 day, 6 hours
|
Re: Testing cultures? Bacterial spawn? Limited Space? Dawgy Bag it! [Re: natedawgnow]
#25373921 - 08/08/18 02:39 AM (5 years, 5 months ago) |
|
|
So, NateDawgNow,
I just posted questions looking for an efficient method for testing cultures like this! (https://www.shroomery.org/forums/showflat.php/Number/25372971#25372971) Your dawgy bag method seems to make more sense than anything else I've run across. A few questions:
1. I've got no bags and will need to buy whatever. Do you suggest I buy spawn bags, or . . . ?
2. Were you using the small (4" x 3" x 18") bags?
3. When you case the bag, you added the casing after full colonization, right?
4. What and how much do you use for the casing?
Thanks!
Edited by ImCurious (08/08/18 02:48 AM)
|
natedawgnow
Rocky mountain hood rat



Registered: 02/09/15
Posts: 8,939
Loc: ation
|
Re: Testing cultures? Bacterial spawn? Limited Space? Dawgy Bag it! [Re: ImCurious]
#25390113 - 08/15/18 12:27 PM (5 years, 5 months ago) |
|
|
Quote:
ImCurious said: So, NateDawgNow,
I just posted questions looking for an efficient method for testing cultures like this! (https://www.shroomery.org/forums/showflat.php/Number/25372971#25372971) Your dawgy bag method seems to make more sense than anything else I've run across. A few questions:
1. I've got no bags and will need to buy whatever. Do you suggest I buy spawn bags, or . . . ?
2. Were you using the small (4" x 3" x 18") bags?
3. When you case the bag, you added the casing after full colonization, right?
4. What and how much do you use for the casing?
Thanks!
Hey dude my bad on the late reply
Any kind of bag will do but i was using .5m medium spawn bads. Grocery bags and the like work also but spawn bags are best.
I cased at spawning with a handful of leftover coir substrate but the uncased bags did just fine if not better than the cased ones. This may be genetic dependant though.
Good luck with your grow dude!
--------------------
|
Land Trout
Stranger



Registered: 01/08/18
Posts: 3,085
Last seen: 15 minutes, 22 seconds
|
Re: Testing cultures? Bacterial spawn? Limited Space? Dawgy Bag it! [Re: natedawgnow]
#25605160 - 11/10/18 10:47 AM (5 years, 2 months ago) |
|
|
Do you get multiple flushes? This worked great for some bad spawn. I had to totally cut the bag apart to harvest, lots of side pins. Going to put the blocks in a sgfc to try for next flush. Thanks for the tek!
Edited by Land Trout (11/10/18 12:46 PM)
|
|