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wakeINpeople
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Question for all parents out there..... 2
#23977880 - 01/03/17 02:19 AM (7 years, 28 days ago) |
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Anyone can answer, but I'd like to hear form actual parents, especially mothers.
We are told that we are omnivores.
If schools decided to start showing kids where our current food sources come from by taking kids on field trips to crop fields, orchards and gardens to show them the plant foods.....
....and then field trips to the livestock fields and slaughterhouses to show them where our meat sources come from....
Would you have a problem with either one? Which one specifically and why? And at what age would it be ok, if you feel it is ok?
Also, would you let them partake in both the picking of the fruit and the slaughter of an animal while on the field trip, or just allow them to watch? Why or why not?
This should be interesting.....
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TopPmz
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Re: Question for all parents out there..... [Re: wakeINpeople]
#23977886 - 01/03/17 02:26 AM (7 years, 28 days ago) |
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I'm pretty sure I actually went on field trips to all of those places in elementary school. We did not participate in the slaughter of any animals though, for obvious reasons.
-------------------- "Freedom Isn't Free" is only half correct. True freedom doesn't exist in the society we exist in. What the saying really means is "The Illusion of Freedom Isn't Free"
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wakeINpeople
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Re: Question for all parents out there..... [Re: TopPmz]
#23977889 - 01/03/17 02:27 AM (7 years, 28 days ago) |
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What are the obvious reasons if you don't mind me asking?
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CookieCrumbs
Fucked off to the pub


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Re: Question for all parents out there..... [Re: wakeINpeople]
#23977890 - 01/03/17 02:27 AM (7 years, 28 days ago) |
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You shouldn't have a child under 13 slaughter an animal for a huge number of reasons. It's irresponsible and dangerous and potentially detrimental to the childs emotional well-being.
I think they should know where our food comes from and how it's made though.
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Free time is the only time
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wakeINpeople
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Re: Question for all parents out there..... [Re: CookieCrumbs]
#23977892 - 01/03/17 02:29 AM (7 years, 28 days ago) |
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Why would it be detrimental to their being specifically?
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CookieCrumbs
Fucked off to the pub


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Re: Question for all parents out there..... [Re: wakeINpeople] 2
#23977893 - 01/03/17 02:29 AM (7 years, 28 days ago) |
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Quote:
wakeINpeople said: What are the obvious reasons if you don't mind me asking?
Have you ever even been around children? they could very easily get physically hurt.
Or be emotionally traumatized. Or worse, think it's fun.
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Free time is the only time
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wakeINpeople
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Re: Question for all parents out there..... [Re: CookieCrumbs]
#23977897 - 01/03/17 02:31 AM (7 years, 28 days ago) |
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But no animals in nature show emotional scarring or issues when they catch and eat their prey, why would we?
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CookieCrumbs
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Re: Question for all parents out there..... [Re: wakeINpeople]
#23977899 - 01/03/17 02:34 AM (7 years, 28 days ago) |
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Quote:
wakeINpeople said: Why would it be detrimental to their being specifically?
I understand there have and always will be farm kids that grow up around pigs and chickens getting slaughtered. That's totally different from taking school kids, from any number of living situations and backgrounds, to a farm factory to help slaughter animals.Quote:
wakeINpeople said: But no animals in nature show emotional scarring or issues when they catch and eat their prey, why would we?
Because we don't normally grow up with it. Baby lions and bears and wolves grow up around their mothers slaughtering prey. Their mothers normally start teaching them to kill before they're even a year old. People are not raised like animals.
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Free time is the only time
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CookieCrumbs
Fucked off to the pub


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Re: Question for all parents out there..... [Re: CookieCrumbs]
#23977903 - 01/03/17 02:36 AM (7 years, 28 days ago) |
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Plus public schools do such a shit job at education I wouldn't expect them to instill within a child the proper respect for life and an understanding of the necessity of environmental balance.
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Free time is the only time
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wakeINpeople
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Re: Question for all parents out there..... [Re: CookieCrumbs]
#23977909 - 01/03/17 02:41 AM (7 years, 28 days ago) |
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Quote:
CookieCrumbs said:
Quote:
wakeINpeople said: Why would it be detrimental to their being specifically?
I understand there have and always will be farm kids that grow up around pigs and chickens getting slaughtered. That's totally different from taking school kids, from any number of living situations and backgrounds, to a farm factory to help slaughter animals.Quote:
wakeINpeople said: But no animals in nature show emotional scarring or issues when they catch and eat their prey, why would we?
Because we don't normally grow up with it. Baby lions and bears and wolves grow up around their mothers slaughtering prey. Their mothers normally start teaching them to kill before they're even a year old. People are not raised like animals.
So you're saying 13....
I appreciate your input, thanks!! I'm doing a little test to see what peoples answers will be.
Do you think we are living like we should, and are in balance with nature?
Edited by wakeINpeople (01/03/17 02:42 AM)
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TopPmz
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Re: Question for all parents out there..... [Re: wakeINpeople]
#23977913 - 01/03/17 02:47 AM (7 years, 28 days ago) |
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Quote:
wakeINpeople said: What are the obvious reasons if you don't mind me asking?
It was an elementary school field trip. It was only for educational purposes. We weren't there to learn a skill, just to learn how our food gets to us.
-------------------- "Freedom Isn't Free" is only half correct. True freedom doesn't exist in the society we exist in. What the saying really means is "The Illusion of Freedom Isn't Free"
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Prisoner#1
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Re: Question for all parents out there..... [Re: wakeINpeople]
#23978381 - 01/03/17 10:28 AM (7 years, 27 days ago) |
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Quote:
wakeINpeople said: ....and then field trips to the livestock fields and slaughterhouses to show them where our meat sources come from....
Would you have a problem with either one?
I wouldnt have an issue with it, my daughter has taken part in butchering a deer and cows, it didnt bother her
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Vriska Serket
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Re: Question for all parents out there..... [Re: Prisoner#1]
#23978399 - 01/03/17 10:33 AM (7 years, 27 days ago) |
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OP I see you
-------------------- the queen of shitposting
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Prisoner#1
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Re: Question for all parents out there..... [Re: CookieCrumbs]
#23978406 - 01/03/17 10:36 AM (7 years, 27 days ago) |
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Quote:
CookieCrumbs said:
Quote:
wakeINpeople said: What are the obvious reasons if you don't mind me asking?
Have you ever even been around children? they could very easily get physically hurt.
Or be emotionally traumatized. Or worse, think it's fun.
kids get hurt when they're out having fun. my daughter broke her arm while riding a bike, my son broke his collarbone while playing tag. should we stop children from playing because they could get hurt? should we stop them from going to school because they could be emotionally traumatized by a bully?
maybe we should allow children to have actual life experiences
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CookieCrumbs
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Re: Question for all parents out there..... [Re: Prisoner#1]
#23978413 - 01/03/17 10:41 AM (7 years, 27 days ago) |
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You're right, we should let 6 yr olds handle heavy machinery and murder pets.
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Repertoire89
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Re: Question for all parents out there..... [Re: wakeINpeople]
#23978513 - 01/03/17 11:16 AM (7 years, 27 days ago) |
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I think they should at least see a video, if you're going to enjoy the fruits of bloodshed you should be aware of it, its natural and historically normal. If anything is weird its not being exposed to these things at a young age.
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WeAreMushroom
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Re: Question for all parents out there..... [Re: Repertoire89] 1
#23978590 - 01/03/17 11:41 AM (7 years, 27 days ago) |
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I'm vegan because I feel like it's unnatural to murder animals in cold blood for my sustained existence when I've been doing just fine eating only plants and supplements for years now.
If anything, we should start teaching children that meat comes from slaughtered animals at a young age so we can try to phase out animal consumption, which has been proven to be a massively unsustainable practice.
It makes so much more sense to grow plants and eat the plants than to grow plants, feed them to animals, and then eat the animals.
There's no such thing as world hunger, if all the space used for growing plant based food for livestock were used for growing plant based food for humans, not a single person would still be starving on this planet.
Go vegan, if not for yourself, if not for the animals, then for the sustained existence of our planet.
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CookieCrumbs
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Re: Question for all parents out there..... [Re: WeAreMushroom]
#23978605 - 01/03/17 11:48 AM (7 years, 27 days ago) |
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Inb4 NO WE NEED MEAT U NOT HEALTHY U DIE
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Supachopped719
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Re: Question for all parents out there..... [Re: CookieCrumbs] 2
#23978650 - 01/03/17 12:05 PM (7 years, 27 days ago) |
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I watched my grandma pick up chickens by their heads and swing them around over her head with a fast snapping motion in order to break their necks. It is one of my earliest memories.
My fifth grade teacher brought an elk he hunted in CO to school. He had a back room that had tile and a drain to his classroom. And he butchered it and stuff there, and allowed a few of us boys and a girl to watch and learn. He knew these kids parents and I'm sure cleared it with them.
I remember going with a friend to a girl's house that he liked when I was maybe 11-12. She lived on a farm. And we watched her dad and brothers slaughter a sheep. Held its head tight and slit it's throat. After wards they stuck hooks through its hands and hung it up. Then sliced it open and all the guts dropped to the floor.
I plan on exposing my children to the same kind of thing when I have some. It's good for you to see these things first hand at a young age.
I almost feel like people who grow up with out seeing this stuff are in for a shock when they see it as an adult. Most people probably just think meat comes from a package until they see an animal get slaughtered.
From a very very young age, I've had a huge respect for animals and the meat I eat. I know that chicken or BBQ I'm eating used to be alive. I know that one day I will be some food for other organisms. It's the circle of life.
Also my parents have always had a vegetable garden even when living in an apartment with just a patio. So I also respect the fruits and vegetables, because I know how long they took to grow just for our tastebuds.
-------------------- Real Eyes Realize Real Lies.
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r.lutece
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Re: Question for all parents out there..... [Re: CookieCrumbs]
#23978659 - 01/03/17 12:09 PM (7 years, 27 days ago) |
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I wouldn't want my kids taking part in a slaughterhouse butchering (I don't like slaughterhouses; they're inhumane and unnatural), but if I were so lucky to have them grow up on a farm like I did, you can be sure they'd be butchering chickens and pigs like we did.
As for comparing human young to lion cubs, let's keep in mind that a lion cub will grow up to continue murdering it's own food. Humans typically do nothing of the sort unless they hunt, which is an arguable small percentage of the population.
-------------------- One goes into an experiment knowing one might fail. But one does not undertake an experiment knowing one HAS failed.
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Supachopped719
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Re: Question for all parents out there..... [Re: r.lutece]
#23978667 - 01/03/17 12:12 PM (7 years, 27 days ago) |
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Yeah a slaughter house is way too much. Even for a lot of adults who have grown up on small farms.
The animals I saw slaughtered while growing up were all done as a single animal, not 100s a minute. And were all preformed by hand.
-------------------- Real Eyes Realize Real Lies.
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Konyap

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Re: Question for all parents out there..... [Re: Supachopped719]
#23978737 - 01/03/17 12:46 PM (7 years, 27 days ago) |
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I take lyfe me murder
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pineninja
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Re: Question for all parents out there..... [Re: Supachopped719] 2
#23978755 - 01/03/17 12:51 PM (7 years, 27 days ago) |
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There are many cultures around the world where children of all ages are exposed to catching killing and butchering of animals, in some cultures when and how are linked to rites of passage. Where the cycle of life and the importance of each animal is closely observed generally you find much more sustainable and ethical behavior. The West is generally divorced from the reality of the process, this leads to a collective head in the sand approach which is dangerous and ultimately Unsustainable. Education can't be a bad thing right? Surely done with the right context and appreciating the subtleties of children introducing them to the truth of what they are eating is a fundamental responsibility imo.
-------------------- Just a fool on the hill.
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CookieCrumbs
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Re: Question for all parents out there..... [Re: pineninja]
#23978829 - 01/03/17 01:16 PM (7 years, 27 days ago) |
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I'm all for more education and sustainability.
Being said the little button I was as an elementary child, and most of the children I've known, would not have done well with seeing an animal slaughtered. I mean I saw dead animals and butcher work and watched my dad thwack fish and mice to death but the idea of "every time you eat a hamburger it's because they murdered a cow like this for you you selfish cunt" would have probably fucked me up right bad.
Alot of the kids I've known would just be too sheltered to deal with seeing an animal die like that.
Perhaps start small and build as they age would be the best way to do it. Kinda like how they do with sex ed.
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Free time is the only time
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ergoticmandala



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Re: Question for all parents out there..... [Re: CookieCrumbs]
#23978856 - 01/03/17 01:27 PM (7 years, 27 days ago) |
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Quote:
the idea of "every time you eat a hamburger it's because they murdered a cow like this for you you selfish cunt" would have probably fucked me up right bad.
that could be good tho, kids would eat meat less, and value it more
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pineninja
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Re: Question for all parents out there..... [Re: ergoticmandala]
#23978865 - 01/03/17 01:32 PM (7 years, 27 days ago) |
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That's right, you say "fucked up" I say fully informed.
-------------------- Just a fool on the hill.
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CookieCrumbs
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Re: Question for all parents out there..... [Re: ergoticmandala]
#23978872 - 01/03/17 01:34 PM (7 years, 27 days ago) |
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Possibly. It has to be done carefully. Like I had really bad self worth issues. When I was 9 I stopped eating and lived on ensure nutritional drinks for most of the school year. I also missed most of the school year because I always had panic attacks around lunch time.
There should be opt out procedures like there is in sex ed.
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Free time is the only time
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CookieCrumbs
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Re: Question for all parents out there..... [Re: CookieCrumbs]
#23978875 - 01/03/17 01:35 PM (7 years, 27 days ago) |
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And I'm hardly the only kid that's had bad experiences and obvious psychological issues, so I'm saying that definitely needs to be taken into account.
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Free time is the only time
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pineninja
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Re: Question for all parents out there..... [Re: CookieCrumbs]
#23978887 - 01/03/17 01:40 PM (7 years, 27 days ago) |
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You should only be able to opt out if you don't eat meator wanna have sex
Its the clash of what is normalized as compared to the actual reality, it's never going to be easy to redress the problem this far down the road but a cultural lack of honesty is what it has taken to get here so we could start with being more open.
-------------------- Just a fool on the hill.
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Supachopped719
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Re: Question for all parents out there..... [Re: CookieCrumbs]
#23978896 - 01/03/17 01:43 PM (7 years, 27 days ago) |
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All the field trips I went on in school required me to get a permission slip signed by a parent/guardian beforehand. I know this because I had shit grades once and the teacher wanted my parents to sign a report card in addition to the permission slip in order to go on a field trip.
I didn't show my mom my shit grades out of fear. So I had to sit and watch reading rainbow all day with the other kids who didn't go on the trip.
-------------------- Real Eyes Realize Real Lies.
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CookieCrumbs
Fucked off to the pub


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Re: Question for all parents out there..... [Re: pineninja]
#23978920 - 01/03/17 01:51 PM (7 years, 27 days ago) |
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If I remember correctly there was a certain age you could not opt out of sex ed. This could be applied here too. As an older teenager you're basically a young adult and you should not only understand these things but also understand how to deal with encountering them.
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Free time is the only time
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Patlal
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Re: Question for all parents out there..... [Re: wakeINpeople]
#23978991 - 01/03/17 02:23 PM (7 years, 27 days ago) |
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Quote:
wakeINpeople said: Anyone can answer, but I'd like to hear form actual parents, especially mothers.
We are told that we are omnivores.
If schools decided to start showing kids where our current food sources come from by taking kids on field trips to crop fields, orchards and gardens to show them the plant foods.....
....and then field trips to the livestock fields and slaughterhouses to show them where our meat sources come from....
Would you have a problem with either one? Which one specifically and why? And at what age would it be ok, if you feel it is ok?
Also, would you let them partake in both the picking of the fruit and the slaughter of an animal while on the field trip, or just allow them to watch? Why or why not?
This should be interesting.....
The Millenials desperately need to toughen up. I would support the slaughterhouse visit. Shit they should be sent to a body farm...
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Edited by Patlal (01/03/17 02:23 PM)
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wakeINpeople
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Re: Question for all parents out there..... [Re: wakeINpeople]
#23979275 - 01/03/17 04:20 PM (7 years, 27 days ago) |
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Interesting answers from everyone....thanks.
So for those who think that it would be better to let the kid do it personally in nature rather than to go to a high-volume slaughterhouse, what would be the best way to get kids in touch with killing animals, if the schools wanted to start teaching EXACTLY how food gets on the plate?
Should we start collectively encouraging that every parent take their kid out and show them how to hunt? Should we allow the schools to do it? Will we be out of balance and diseased as a species until we do that? Will that solve our problems?
I think that most of us are kept away from it deliberately for a very intense personal reason, and it's the same exact reason as why most young kids will start to cry when they see someone hurting an animal.
Many young kids are sad, scared, and don't want to shoot the deer the first time they were taught to hunt. Usually the parent and grandparent who both grew up hunting stand there and just say "go on, it's alright", completely ignoring the childs gut instinct to say no.
As soon as animals in nature get off of the mothers breast milk, they start teaching their young how to capture their own food, whether it be plants or animals, which they usually learn in a year, and they do it with no remorse. So should we start showing all children to kill at 3 and 4 years old, after they are off the breast milk?
Something seems very off here, and I think it's screwing up the whole world and creating all kinds of other side-branching problems that we focus on, instead of focusing on the main problem.....
....and then there's that whole no claws, flat tooth, slow as fuck thing that us humans have going on.
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Morel Guy
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Re: Question for all parents out there..... [Re: wakeINpeople]
#23979295 - 01/03/17 04:27 PM (7 years, 27 days ago) |
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I have never slaughtered an animal. I am involved in raising goats and have eat'n some that I raised. I wouldn't want to mess up processing so leave it to the pros.
I care about dogs more than people. I worry more about putting a dog down than a goat. A goat either dies on their own, gets the needle or becomes dinner.
I don't owe goats what I owe emotionally to my dogs. The goats get a great life and are natural prey. They can be a pain in the ass and never really love a human nor trust us.
I have no interest in eating horse either. I feel every animal has purpose and it's not to be messed with. I require very little to live and take what I use, no more.
I feel bad for the critters but there is no improving. There is nothing else that can be done. We aren't raising goats for their retirement and taking us and life for granted. Maybe they will be better off next life.
-------------------- "in sterquiliniis invenitur in stercore invenitur" In filth it will be found in dung it will be found
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daytripper05
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Re: Question for all parents out there..... [Re: Morel Guy]
#23979501 - 01/03/17 05:42 PM (7 years, 27 days ago) |
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I helped my Dad kill and slaughter animals, along with various people that hunted deer, and clean fish. Yeah it's a bit awkward at first, but it's a part of nature and the cycle of life. Not all butchers and meat processing plants are bad, and not all are raised in factory farms. I've also milked animals and learned a lot of gardening and farming, all of which was essential information.
Bottom line, kids aren't nearly as fragile as we think.
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CookieCrumbs
Fucked off to the pub


Registered: 12/10/11
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Re: Question for all parents out there..... [Re: daytripper05]
#23979623 - 01/03/17 06:29 PM (7 years, 27 days ago) |
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Honestly we're the ones that make them fragile. School is caught in a weird crossroads and trying to teach children what their parents should teach them while at the same time not being a parent.
That's the biggest reason I don't like the idea. School isn't individual focused and doesn't take into account how best it is to introduce potentially sensitive concepts into a childs life.
There's alot of things parents should teach their kids and gets left up to school and the internet... And I think that could be why modern teens have such screwed up ideas on how alot of the real world works.
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Free time is the only time
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LSDollar


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Re: Question for all parents out there..... [Re: CookieCrumbs]
#23979767 - 01/03/17 07:36 PM (7 years, 27 days ago) |
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Slaughterhouse? Anything under 13 or 12 is unacceptable imo. Orchards? fuck bring them in when their in kindergarden
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Morel Guy
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Re: Question for all parents out there..... [Re: CookieCrumbs]
#23979784 - 01/03/17 07:42 PM (7 years, 27 days ago) |
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Depends on the teacher and school. My teachers never got very personal but one or two talked about drugs.
The world is just more sensative these days. Not all parents agree and schools want order.
-------------------- "in sterquiliniis invenitur in stercore invenitur" In filth it will be found in dung it will be found
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spirit_shadow
Feature not a bug



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Re: Question for all parents out there..... [Re: Morel Guy]
#23979809 - 01/03/17 07:51 PM (7 years, 27 days ago) |
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I will never have kids. But if i did and they were properly supervised I would have no problem with it. Many kids are taught to hunt and skin animals at very young ages
-------------------- ERROR 418 IM A TEAPOT.....(this account is automated, all posts related to illegal activities or advice thereof are strictly from numerous online sites and are for informational purposes only)- Circa 2011 Ban lotto
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Crystal G



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Re: Question for all parents out there..... [Re: spirit_shadow]
#23979821 - 01/03/17 07:53 PM (7 years, 27 days ago) |
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I'm for the idea of kids knowing where their food comes from. But going to a slaughterhouse at age 5 or 6 is the sort of thing that would turn a kid vegan for life. Not that that's necessarily a bad thing, but they should probably be a little older. It's not like hunting where you're killing an animal humanely, slaughterhouses are full of torture and a life of misery for the animals and it's just bad juju all around.
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Morel Guy
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Re: Question for all parents out there..... [Re: Crystal G]
#23979856 - 01/03/17 08:06 PM (7 years, 27 days ago) |
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I watched a video last year of awake animals having their throats cut very poorly.
Should be instant death.
-------------------- "in sterquiliniis invenitur in stercore invenitur" In filth it will be found in dung it will be found
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Prisoner#1
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Re: Question for all parents out there..... [Re: CookieCrumbs]
#23979862 - 01/03/17 08:08 PM (7 years, 27 days ago) |
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Quote:
CookieCrumbs said: You're right, we should let 6 yr olds handle heavy machinery and murder pets.
you're right, we should wrap them in bubble wrap and lock them in a closet where it's safe
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Prisoner#1
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Re: Question for all parents out there..... [Re: WeAreMushroom]
#23979896 - 01/03/17 08:18 PM (7 years, 27 days ago) |
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Quote:
WeAreMushroom said: If anything, we should start teaching children that meat comes from slaughtered animals at a young age so we can try to phase out animal consumption, which has been proven to be a massively unsustainable practice.
according to vegans claiming to do studies and propagated by vegans attempting to assert some moral superiority.
Quote:
It makes so much more sense to grow plants and eat the plants than to grow plants, feed them to animals, and then eat the animals.
apparently far more needs to be done in order to make sure kids are informed of where their food comes from, you could use a lesson in how much it costs to raise your crops in addition to how animals are actually raised, I bet you believe in factory farms and all the horror stories. outside of poultry, it's bullshit
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CookieCrumbs
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Re: Question for all parents out there..... [Re: Prisoner#1]
#23979906 - 01/03/17 08:21 PM (7 years, 27 days ago) |
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I think the pandering and coddling is a huge issue with children being brought up today.
And in part that's why I think making them watch an animal get slaughtered at a young age is a bad idea. It seems a bit contradictory.
"no timmy you can't ride a bike without a helmet, and no farther than the driveway, but you can watch this chicken get its head cut off and learn about sex in school." Conflicting values is a good way to help insure a fucked up kid.
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Morel Guy
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Re: Question for all parents out there..... [Re: CookieCrumbs]
#23979962 - 01/03/17 08:39 PM (7 years, 27 days ago) |
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It's because there is always some overly butt hurt parent out there.
If the nation goes to war on our own soil. You'd be happy to slaughter an animal for some food. Very lucky to do that too!
-------------------- "in sterquiliniis invenitur in stercore invenitur" In filth it will be found in dung it will be found
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Chakra Shock
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Re: Question for all parents out there..... [Re: CookieCrumbs]
#23980240 - 01/03/17 10:59 PM (7 years, 27 days ago) |
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It's a particular predicament of the west that we like to shelter ourselves from literally every single aspect of life which does not include comfort or the pursuit of comfort.
Death, sickness, poverty, hunger, disease, old age, mental and physical handicap, harvesting the meat of animals, etc. The list probably goes on.
I agree with those who say we should convert our industrialized animal farming into plant based farming, and that everyone should be at least 90% vegetarian. We eat far too much meat as a planet, particularly americans. It's fucked, honestly.
But so long as this way of life persists, the last thing we should do is shelter ourselves from the means of our own survival. Let people see it, show it to them, take kids to slaughterhouses. Hiding people away from the truth only causes more suffering later on, due to having lived a life in a state of ignorance or a slightly deluded perception of reality.
Think if you grew up and no one ever told kids about death, and then when you were of age someone finally told you that you will die some day... how awful would that realization be? how unprepared you might be for that kind of suffering... no, it's better to know the truth than hide from it.
Like repertoire said though, maybe just show some videos rather than an actual field trip. Idunno.
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Amanita86
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Re: Question for all parents out there..... [Re: Chakra Shock]
#23980423 - 01/04/17 01:10 AM (7 years, 27 days ago) |
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Well, I don't have children but if I did I wouldn't need some public educational shitstem teaching him/her about where food comes from or the 'circle of life' because that's my job.
Add to that..it's not 'where' it's 'how' when you start comparing slaughter houses and nature/hunting/farming. Slaughter houses aren't healthy physically or psychologically. In my opinion it's not the death that is shocking, it's the living conditions that are.
Growing up hunting with my dad and my brother, we not only learned how to kill ethically, but how the animals lived, their key roles in the balance of nature and how everything 'came together', plants, animals, fungus, weather, seasons..the whole 9. I'm not sure my child could learn much more from a slaughter house other than what a cow that has dead eyes and no more will to live looks like. It really is inspiraton for a lot of those twisted horror movies.
Is it a valid thing to learn? Yes, but in my opinion only after they see what it looks like when it's done right. I can take my kid on a deer hunt, or fishing and teach him/her where food 'comes from' and how 'life works' out there. And those lessons won't traumatize at all. Even if they don't want to kill, all the lessons can still be taught without getting any blood on their hands. Plus it's a perfect setting to start ingraining gun safety..
Once they have a solid foundation of what all that entails, well start branching out into the less 'colorful' aspects of how humans work. Childhood in my mind is a pretty magical time, in my eyes. So I don't see any real need to rush into the nitty gritty until they get a little time under their belts.. it'll all come.
The talk of slaughter houses and how humans are destroying the earth will come after they learn the nature we still in fact live in, even though some people live 'indoors' and nature is just something 'out there' to be mowed down, paved over, and construct brick boxes to sell a bunch of bullshit junk out of 90% of the time..
In other words, I'd raise mine, like mine raised me.. I'll let the teachers handle the math and shit like that..
--------------------
Orange clock, pencil "They threw me off the hay truck about noon..."
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ThatKidWithTheFace
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Re: Question for all parents out there..... [Re: Amanita86]
#23980477 - 01/04/17 02:05 AM (7 years, 27 days ago) |
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Every field trip I went on as a child was to some form of farm.
-------------------- Check Out My Beats SoundCloud
[quote]Sheekle said: [quote]ThatKidWithTheFace said: Is this the same aunt that fucks dogs?[/quote] u bet ur ass it is.[/quote]
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larry.fisherman
shoulda died already


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Re: Question for all parents out there..... [Re: wakeINpeople]
#23980733 - 01/04/17 07:52 AM (7 years, 26 days ago) |
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I don't have a problem with my kids seeing death and even at some point killing their food. I believe it's a valuable lesson in respecting the animal's sacrifice, but that being said should a teacher be doing it? The butcher? Should the other kids be there to make jokes about it or amplify negative feelings as a group? No it's no different than sex-ed. Sure it's great the school wanna teach the more in-detail stuff but the most important bulk information should come from the parents.
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SARAtonin
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I'd have no issue with it, although I may be bias being a vegetarian.
Obviously not elementary kids, you gotta wait till that type of thing wouldn't traumatize them, And even if it's like high school kids, don't be showing them the actual slaughtered house or anything, Just show them the conditions the animals are forced to live in. And no, I wouldn't let them participate in the slaughter or even watch it.
But decisions like that are something only the individual can make. (Being a vegetarian) I get very frustrated when I see parents push ideologies on their children, especially religion.
-------------------- God kills indiscriminately and so shall we. For no creatures under God are as we are none so like him as ourselves. Want to join a cult? Click for details…
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larry.fisherman
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Re: Question for all parents out there..... [Re: SARAtonin] 1
#23980792 - 01/04/17 08:42 AM (7 years, 26 days ago) |
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Being vegetarian is an ideology. Only showing them the conditions of the animals defeats the point and just supports your own.
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DualWieldRake
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Re: Question for all parents out there..... [Re: SARAtonin]
#23980800 - 01/04/17 08:45 AM (7 years, 26 days ago) |
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well infact, veganism is super unsustainable. vegans are pretty much 'killing' the planet (no worries it will 'fight' back) with the acres upon acres of soy they need to function let alone stay on their feet while doing labor. this is the kind of crop rainforests are beeing cutdown for, the same rainforests that are responsible for making oxygen out of co2...
they should take all school kids to a slaughterhouse mandatory, and the ones deciding to go vegan can go die (out of malnutrition) to improve the quality of air for us sane people
Edited by DualWieldRake (01/04/17 08:48 AM)
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daytripper05
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Re: Question for all parents out there..... [Re: CookieCrumbs]
#23980861 - 01/04/17 09:13 AM (7 years, 26 days ago) |
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Quote:
CookieCrumbs said: "no timmy you can't ride a bike without a helmet, and no farther than the driveway, but you can watch this chicken get its head cut off and learn about sex in school." Conflicting values is a good way to help insure a fucked up kid.
You've obviously never been raised around farms. This stuff is ingrained in most children that live on farms from the time they are born. It's a part of life, and kids no doubt make better eating choices on their own if they see where their food comes from. I'd rather my kid watch 100 birds get humanely slaughtered and processed as real food than eat a single chicken nugget.
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Prisoner#1
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Re: Question for all parents out there..... [Re: CookieCrumbs] 1
#23980897 - 01/04/17 09:35 AM (7 years, 26 days ago) |
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Quote:
CookieCrumbs said: I think the pandering and coddling is a huge issue with children being brought up today.
yes, it makes them delicate little flowers that cant handle the shit that life throws at them
Quote:
And in part that's why I think making them watch an animal get slaughtered at a young age is a bad idea.
throughout history children were exposed to it every day, I wonder how mankind has managed to survive as long as we have with children seeing animals butchered
Quote:
"no timmy you can't ride a bike without a helmet, and no farther than the driveway, but you can watch this chicken get its head cut off and learn about sex in school." Conflicting values is a good way to help insure a fucked up kid.
it seems you're the one pushing conflicting values, my kids down own a helmet, in fact my daughter broke her arm riding her bike and the hospital wanted to be sure she didnt have a concussion because she had no helmet on... she's also seen animals slaughtered
I wont criticize you for sheltering your children in the bubble you create for them, you shouldnt criticize me for teaching mu kids some real world skills that include hunting, mechanics, electrical, construction, farming and what ever else they want to learn
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CookieCrumbs
Fucked off to the pub


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Re: Question for all parents out there..... [Re: daytripper05]
#23980901 - 01/04/17 09:36 AM (7 years, 26 days ago) |
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I have actually.
How many times do I have to say I'm not concerned with the farm kids?
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Free time is the only time
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CookieCrumbs
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Re: Question for all parents out there..... [Re: Prisoner#1]
#23980904 - 01/04/17 09:38 AM (7 years, 26 days ago) |
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I dunno why you have to go over to the far retard left every time I try to suggest we have discretion.
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Free time is the only time
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larry.fisherman
shoulda died already


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Re: Question for all parents out there..... [Re: Prisoner#1]
#23980905 - 01/04/17 09:38 AM (7 years, 26 days ago) |
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My son's favourite movie is Old Yeller.
As far as history goes, if it is true that these things fuck people up, then it's already genetically encoded in us so seeing some things die and learning to respect what's on your plate isn't going to make things worse. Poor parenting is far more detrimental than the overall effect things like this would have on them. We just have to talk to them.
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daytripper05
Psychonaut




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Re: Question for all parents out there..... [Re: CookieCrumbs]
#23980919 - 01/04/17 09:46 AM (7 years, 26 days ago) |
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Quote:
CookieCrumbs said: I have actually.
How many times do I have to say I'm not concerned with the farm kids?
What makes farm kids any different than kids that don't grow up on farms in their ability to handle where our food comes from? I don't think there is that much difference except their inherent exposure to life on the farm. Our kids needs to be exposed to this, and the sooner the better in my book.
And to be specific, I'm talking family farms, not huge factory farms or feed lots.
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Prisoner#1
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Re: Question for all parents out there..... [Re: CookieCrumbs]
#23980928 - 01/04/17 09:49 AM (7 years, 26 days ago) |
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Quote:
CookieCrumbs said: I dunno why you have to go over to the far retard left every time I try to suggest we have discretion.
I was just following your lead or have you forgotten little timmy that's being forced to watch animals get slaughtered but has to wear a helmet.
did you read these posts?
https://www.shroomery.org/forums/showflat.php/Number/23977890#23977890 https://www.shroomery.org/forums/showflat.php/Number/23977893#23977893 https://www.shroomery.org/forums/showflat.php/Number/23977903#23977903
this one was my favorite
Quote:
CookieCrumbs said: You're right, we should let 6 yr olds handle heavy machinery and murder pets.
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larry.fisherman
shoulda died already


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Re: Question for all parents out there..... [Re: daytripper05]
#23980934 - 01/04/17 09:52 AM (7 years, 26 days ago) |
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The difference is reponsibility. Living on a farm you're mucking stalls and feeding livestock, learning to drive heavy machinery, cutting the fuck out of yourself and getting pecked by chickens. Most city kids are lucky if mom makes them do dishes and get a part time job at 16-17.
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larry.fisherman
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Re: Question for all parents out there..... [Re: Prisoner#1]
#23980937 - 01/04/17 09:54 AM (7 years, 26 days ago) |
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I'd let my 6 year old handle heavy machinery under supervision of course.
I was letting my 2 year old shoot my pellet gun with me this summer(I held it of course). I had my first swiss army knife before I was 4, never once cut myself.
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CookieCrumbs
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Re: Question for all parents out there..... [Re: Prisoner#1]
#23980948 - 01/04/17 09:59 AM (7 years, 26 days ago) |
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Thought it was pretty obvious I went to an over the top extreme assumption because you did.
Anyway, on my absolute most serious note, for all fucks sake, yes. Take them on nature trips in preschool. Take them to zoos and orchards and farms and historical parks and teach them about life. I feel like those real world aspects are seriously lacking in modern school children and that's what really concerns me.
If you want to start with taking them to state parks and petting zoos and pulling carrots at a local farm in elementary sschool and then build up to animal butchery in middle/high school I think that could be a good idea.
I do not think taking children to a slaughter house without a solid foundation (which many children do not have) is a good idea.
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Konyap

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Re: Question for all parents out there..... [Re: CookieCrumbs]
#23980957 - 01/04/17 10:01 AM (7 years, 26 days ago) |
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Now putting children in a slaughter house on the other hand...
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daytripper05
Psychonaut




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I had a bow arrow, multiple bb/pellet guns, pocket knives, tractor, 4 wheeler, etc all as a kid. I seriously had a bb gun from as early as I can remember. I cut myself one time, and my dad took my knife away and said "told you so". Made me learn real quick because I wanted my knife back. Never had any incidents with my guns though. Never wrecked my 4wheeler and always wore a helmet, but other than that, I had the keys and rode it wherever/whenever I wanted.
I use to go out in the woods too, unsupervised for hours. Never got lost and just had to be back by dark. I'm 30 and have a 15 year old brother. His generation is totally different and he has a different dad. He cried the first time I made him pee outside. The kids today are most definitely fragile little snowflakes.
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CookieCrumbs
Fucked off to the pub


Registered: 12/10/11
Posts: 14,146
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Quote:
XLCaps said: I'd let my 6 year old handle heavy machinery under supervision of course.
I was letting my 2 year old shoot my pellet gun with me this summer(I held it of course). I had my first swiss army knife before I was 4, never once cut myself.
I had my first swiss army knife when I was about 5-6. Inherited my brothers butterfly knife at 8.
...which possibly turned out to not be a totally good idea as I started purposely cutting myself with it when I was 10. But then it might not of really made a difference. It's not like I couldn't have used a kitchen knife. And then my dumb little ass probs woulda got salmonella or some shit
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Konyap

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Re: Question for all parents out there..... [Re: daytripper05]
#23980962 - 01/04/17 10:02 AM (7 years, 26 days ago) |
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CookieCrumbs
Fucked off to the pub


Registered: 12/10/11
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Re: Question for all parents out there..... [Re: CookieCrumbs]
#23980993 - 01/04/17 10:16 AM (7 years, 26 days ago) |
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I'm concerned about little shits like me that didn't have that good foundation, didn't have a good dose of parental discretion and had trauma at a young age.
I could easily accuse you guys of being "sheltered" for not being aware of the fact that it can be damaging and especially so when a kid is already psychologically damaged. I've been around other kids that would torture and kill peoples pets. I've been around kids that have no understanding of the value of life and almost no empathy. So no I don't think it's a good idea to just shuttle each and every little 6yr old off to watch an animal get slaughtered and butchered.
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Prisoner#1
Even Dumber ThanAdvertized!


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Re: Question for all parents out there..... [Re: CookieCrumbs]
#23981042 - 01/04/17 10:36 AM (7 years, 26 days ago) |
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Quote:
CookieCrumbs said: Thought it was pretty obvious I went to an over the top extreme assumption because you did.
so you're was predictive retardation, you knew I would eventually post here so you decided to get all retarded before I even posted

Quote:
I do not think taking children to a slaughter house without a solid foundation (which many children do not have) is a good idea.
no one is talking about putting a bolt gun in their hands and making them work the killing floor at 6 years old... except you, you seem to believe this is what people are advocating
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larry.fisherman
shoulda died already


Registered: 11/03/12
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Re: Question for all parents out there..... [Re: Prisoner#1]
#23981047 - 01/04/17 10:37 AM (7 years, 26 days ago) |
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What if they get to take home the cow?
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Prozac
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The first time I watched an animal get slaughtered was when I was about 8 years old. I saw the insides and everything. I was fascinated by it. Then I went on an animal torturing spree.
If I had children I would not expose them to these types of things as I am afraid they might inherit that same disgusting sickness that I had. Not forever though. Just not at a very young age.
-------------------- https://www.youtube.com/c/ExurbiA <<Check that out for puppy videos.
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CookieCrumbs
Fucked off to the pub


Registered: 12/10/11
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Re: Question for all parents out there..... [Re: Prisoner#1]
#23981118 - 01/04/17 11:16 AM (7 years, 26 days ago) |
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Quote:
Prisoner#1 said:
no one is talking about putting a bolt gun in their hands and making them work the killing floor at 6 years old... except you, you seem to believe this is what people are advocating
OP actually specifically asked that. Or specifically if they should be allowed to take part in the slaughter.
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CookieCrumbs
Fucked off to the pub


Registered: 12/10/11
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Re: Question for all parents out there..... [Re: Prisoner#1]
#23981189 - 01/04/17 11:49 AM (7 years, 26 days ago) |
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Quote:
Prisoner#1 said:
Quote:
CookieCrumbs said: Thought it was pretty obvious I went to an over the top extreme assumption because you did.
so you're was predictive retardation, you knew I would eventually post here so you decided to get all retarded before I even posted

Quote:
Prisoner#1 said:
Quote:
CookieCrumbs said: I dunno why you have to go over to the far retard left every time I try to suggest we have discretion.
I was just following your lead or have you forgotten little timmy that's being forced to watch animals get slaughtered but has to wear a helmet.
did you read these posts?
https://www.shroomery.org/forums/showflat.php/Number/23977890#23977890 https://www.shroomery.org/forums/showflat.php/Number/23977893#23977893 https://www.shroomery.org/forums/showflat.php/Number/23977903#23977903
I meant what I said in those prior posts but that was just partial and ineffective communication, the kind of retarded that comes with shit sleep and not enough pain killers.
Though it irritated me that you took that to mean we should bubble wrap our children tho.
I'm for a good pop on the ass when the kid gets out of hand, I'm for personal responsibility, I'm for exploring and playing and getting hurt and learning as that is what children of all mammalian species do in order to grow into successful adults. The biggest point I was trying (and apparently failing) to make is that if we are to do such a system of education it has to be done carefully and taking into account the variety of backgrounds children come from and include a steady step-by-step build up over years.
And that schools generally suck at teaching kids important life things so unless the education system gets revamped I think a nationwide undertaking of such a program would probably be a failure in many cases. With society and schools being the way they are right now I think it would encourage the idea of conflicting values.
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Free time is the only time
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daytripper05
Psychonaut




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Re: Question for all parents out there..... [Re: CookieCrumbs]
#23981298 - 01/04/17 12:26 PM (7 years, 26 days ago) |
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I actually don't think spanking kids it's effective means of punishment at all. My dad never hit me one time and I was scared as shit to do something wrong on his watch. My mom was the same way too. Teaching kids that hitting is a form of punishment doesn't transcend into adulthood, and it doesn't really do anything for children, except teach them to use hitting as a method of getting what they want.
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CookieCrumbs
Fucked off to the pub


Registered: 12/10/11
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Re: Question for all parents out there..... [Re: daytripper05]
#23981344 - 01/04/17 12:43 PM (7 years, 26 days ago) |
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That's neither here nor there and I'm probably not even having kids.
I don't consider a "pop" a spanking or an actual hit tho. My mom popped the backs of our hands and while it didn't really hurt it made the same effect. In some situations you kind of need that immediate punishment tho and unfortunately I feel the places this is most needed is the places it can't be done. I've known children to act up really bad in grocery stores and it's cuz they know mom or dad can't do anything about it right at that moment.
But god there's so much that goes into being a good parent and having a well behaved but well balanced child... I'm pretty well aware of the fact that mine was a mess because my older brother was an ADHD out of control shit and my parents nerves were frayed out by the time I was around. I got popped. I got spanked. My brother had things thrown at him.
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Free time is the only time
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Masked
The Nutter


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Re: Question for all parents out there..... [Re: wakeINpeople]
#23981534 - 01/04/17 01:58 PM (7 years, 26 days ago) |
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I havent read the whole thread but question for the OP...
Are you vegan or vegetarian?
Because it seems to me you are trying to establish some sort of link between the hypothetical field trip scenario and the morals behind our distaste for it.
Its illogical and weak if thats the case
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Crystal G



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Re: Question for all parents out there..... [Re: Prisoner#1]
#23981909 - 01/04/17 04:42 PM (7 years, 26 days ago) |
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Quote:
Prisoner#1 said: it seems you're the one pushing conflicting values, my kids down own a helmet, in fact my daughter broke her arm riding her bike and the hospital wanted to be sure she didnt have a concussion because she had no helmet on... she's also seen animals slaughtered
No helmet?! The brain is the most important organ there is, one hard crash and you could end up with seizures for life or something
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Konyap

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Re: Question for all parents out there..... [Re: Crystal G]
#23981939 - 01/04/17 04:53 PM (7 years, 26 days ago) |
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if your kid needs a helmet to ride a bike then he shouldn't be riding a bike there
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Crystal G



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Re: Question for all parents out there..... [Re: Konyap]
#23982008 - 01/04/17 05:14 PM (7 years, 26 days ago) |
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That is ridiculous, you're essentially balancing on two wheels, and kids aren't known for having the best coordination so of course they're going to spill sometimes. And even if you do everything perfectly there are the other things you can't control for, like getting hit by a car.
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Supachopped719
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Re: Question for all parents out there..... [Re: Crystal G]
#23982075 - 01/04/17 05:39 PM (7 years, 26 days ago) |
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I've never worn a helmet on a byke nd em not stoopid. Em fin!
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pirate-blues


Registered: 10/15/12
Posts: 13,656
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Re: Question for all parents out there..... [Re: Crystal G]
#23982104 - 01/04/17 05:50 PM (7 years, 26 days ago) |
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Disclaimer: not a parent, and a meat eater - however, I am trying to eat less meat(I don't want to give it up completely, but kinda phase it out of my diet), be more ethical with my meat choices and trying to figure out how best to go about that.
I think more people need to be aware of where our food comes from, and that this is a wonderful idea - however, I would hate to see it presented in any kind of biased and emotional way - I don't know how I would feel about my kid seeing animals slaughtered(God knows I stumbled upon PETA videos when I was 12 and became vegan for a hot second myself) but I think that they need to know where their food comes from not only in order to fully appreciate the farms, farmers, and laborers and areas of the country that feed us all but the impact it has on the environment, in fact I think it's extremely important.
This is a great idea, it needs to be carried out in a sensitive but unemotional, objective manner and it's aim should be to inform and create a healthier and more knowledgeable relationship with food in general.
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Prisoner#1
Even Dumber ThanAdvertized!


Registered: 01/22/03
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Re: Question for all parents out there..... [Re: Crystal G]
#23982962 - 01/05/17 01:52 AM (7 years, 26 days ago) |
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Quote:
Crystal G said:
Quote:
Prisoner#1 said: it seems you're the one pushing conflicting values, my kids down own a helmet, in fact my daughter broke her arm riding her bike and the hospital wanted to be sure she didnt have a concussion because she had no helmet on... she's also seen animals slaughtered
No helmet?! The brain is the most important organ there is, one hard crash and you could end up with seizures for life or something

how many years did people function without helmets?
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Crystal G



Registered: 06/05/07
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Re: Question for all parents out there..... [Re: Prisoner#1]
#23982977 - 01/05/17 02:11 AM (7 years, 26 days ago) |
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Quote:
Prisoner#1 said:
how many years did people function without helmets?
What does that have to do with anything, the original automobiles didn't have seat belts either. Do you think it's a good idea to drive on a freeway without wearing a seatbelt too?
Gary Busey is a perfect example of why you should wear helmets while biking. And why somebody should take it easy on the drugs sometimes.
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larry.fisherman
shoulda died already


Registered: 11/03/12
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Re: Question for all parents out there..... [Re: Crystal G]
#23983201 - 01/05/17 06:53 AM (7 years, 25 days ago) |
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My cousin's husband was in a serious wreck with his buddy years and years ago. He wasn't wearing a seatbelt, was ejected through the windshield and survived. Buddy was wearing a seatbelt but wasn't so lucky. I'd say the fact that most people agree it should be a choice is relevant to the fact that it's safety is limited to the idea that it's infallible.
As someone who has done a lot of stupid shit on bikes, I can safely say that you're far more likely to smash or break everything but your head. Should kids wear helmets? At a certain age, if you can make them at all, sure maybe. That doesn't mean they won't take it off though.
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Konyap

Registered: 06/30/07
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if you hit your head at 40mph you're dead or at least paralyzed
people get punched in the street fall over and die all it takes is a blood clot
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CookieCrumbs
Fucked off to the pub


Registered: 12/10/11
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Re: Question for all parents out there..... [Re: Konyap] 1
#23983862 - 01/05/17 12:44 PM (7 years, 25 days ago) |
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Very young children don't have fully formed skulls or only recently formed skulls. I'm sure someone can better explain the developmental science of why. There was a girl in my 1st grade class that broke her skull on the gym's carpeted floor after falling off the pull up bars.
So yeah I can see why people make their kids wear a bike helmet. And it is law in some places. I had bad motor skills so I wrecked my bike alot. Got scraped up pretty bad. Only hit my head once and it was from pulling back too hard going over a ramp. Funny enough I was wearing a helmet but it was one of those stupid aerodynamic speed helmets so I still smashed the back of my head on the ramp.
I didn't break it. I was like 10 or 11 tho. Children are often more limber and unbreakable than us old folk but they are little and their heads are fragile.
I smacked my little brother in the head with a baseball bat when he was like 3 or 4 and I think he may be borderline retarded because of it we wrestled all the time. We both took alot of hits to the head/face and scared the fuck out of our parents... My older brother is the one that had repeated visits to the hospital. Was it the fact he was ADHD? Or was it because there wasn't as much "safety awareness" in the 80s?
a helmet costs 10 bucks and doesn't bother a kid if it fits properly. We can debate all day about the safety measures that have been implemented in the last 20 years but I'd rather see a kid bike around the block with a helmet than be forced to bike in a 1500sf backyard without one. I think our paranoia that is effecting their social lives and situational awareness is worse to their development than making them use safety scissors and wear helmets. Like it's okay to take precautions. It's not okay to keep them inside all the time and not let them do anything for themselves.
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Crystal G



Registered: 06/05/07
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Quote:
XLCaps said: As someone who has done a lot of stupid shit on bikes, I can safely say that you're far more likely to smash or break everything but your head. Should kids wear helmets? At a certain age, if you can make them at all, sure maybe. That doesn't mean they won't take it off though.
The brain is the most important organism though. You hurt your leg or your arm, big deal, it'll heal. And even if it doesn't, you can live just fine without an arm or a leg and your quality of life can still be good. You hit your head too hard one time though, and you could end up with epilepsy or amnesia or go into a coma. That's the sort of thing that leaves you with no choice but to live off disability checks for the rest of your life.
Edited by Crystal G (01/05/17 01:29 PM)
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pinedownpioneer

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Re: Question for all parents out there..... [Re: Crystal G]
#23983942 - 01/05/17 01:26 PM (7 years, 25 days ago) |
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I never wore a helmet growing up none of us did. But once I started doing triathlons I started wearing a helmet. Mainly because sooner or later a car would hit me, I'd wipeout on a sharp turn on wet roads, or eat shit coming down a big steep hill. Luckily none of those have happened. Ive taken a couple falls but nothing bad just fractured wrists. I'm surprised none of my brothers and I ended up a vegetable. Many many years ago a kid was sitting on a tennis court net, fell backwards hitting his head and either died or is a vegetable now. I cannot remember I was very young when my dad told me. It happened at the courts by the pool that I spent much of my childhood at working out and running wild.
-------------------- Trade list Need kratom? Message me now.
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