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Invisiblesudly
Darwin's stagger


Registered: 01/05/15
Posts: 10,812
How 'imperfect' are you?
    #23973869 - 01/01/17 06:40 PM (7 years, 29 days ago)

What's one thing you would like to improve about yourself?

I'm starting to feel more sophisticated in life but I'm also meeting and talking to more sophisticated people too. With that said there are a lot of intelligent and respectable views of the world around us that don't all necessarily agree.

Recent events in the 2016 US election cycle have provided a decent example of how divisive one nation can be, and how divisive the human mind can be.

For me my self improvement would come from practicing awareness to draw back in the moment to be more critical and less rash in my decision making.



--------------------
I am whatever Darwin needs me to be.



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OfflineTmethylM
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Re: How 'imperfect' are you? [Re: sudly]
    #23973895 - 01/01/17 06:53 PM (7 years, 29 days ago)

I like this idea of exposing the ego by saying how imperfect I am, but I also realize this is another act of the ego to one-up itself and other egos.
"My ego is so strong it can say how imperfect it is." Whereas most egos are on the level where they cannot say anything questionable about themselves.

So if I partake in saying how imperfect I am, I just strengthen my own ego.

Fuck you ego.
(shit, this is a third level of ego, attempting to circumvent the system and looking cool doing it.)

I don't know what to do.
I am imperfect.

:lol:

(^ 4th level of ego)


--------------------
¯\_(ツ)_/¯


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Offlinebeforethedawn
Registered: 06/19/16
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Re: How 'imperfect' are you? [Re: Tmethyl]
    #23973919 - 01/01/17 07:01 PM (7 years, 29 days ago)

I attribute most of my pain in life to brain issues, not the way I'm thinking or behaving. If you want to excel then your thinking and behaviour comes into it, but if you just want to survive, happy, reasonable, okay, it's only the brain that will stop you.


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Hostile humankind
Can't you see you're fucking blind?


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OfflineLucisM
Nutritional Yeast

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Re: How 'imperfect' are you? [Re: sudly]
    #23974282 - 01/01/17 09:34 PM (7 years, 29 days ago)

Quote:

sudly said:

I'm starting to feel more sophisticated in life but I'm also meeting and talking to more sophisticated people too.





That has a lot to do with growing, if you're one of the smarter people in the room, then you need to surround yourself with new people that make you want to grow, and challenge you.


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©️


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Offlineblingbling
what you chicken stew?

Registered: 09/04/10
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Re: How 'imperfect' are you? [Re: sudly]
    #23974288 - 01/01/17 09:35 PM (7 years, 29 days ago)

There is not one thing I would like to improve about myself, there are many things. Different pursuits tend to sharpen different aspects of oneself. Its important to be well rounded.


--------------------
Kupo said:
let's fuel the robots with psilocybin.

cez said:
everyone should smoke dmt for religion.

dustinthewind13 said:
euthanasia and prostitution should be legal and located in the same building.

White Beard said:
if you see the buddha on the road, rape him, then kill him. then rape him again.


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OfflineRJ Tubs 202
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Re: How 'imperfect' are you? [Re: beforethedawn]
    #23974696 - 01/02/17 12:30 AM (7 years, 28 days ago)

Quote:

beforethedawn said:

I attribute most of my pain in life to brain issues, not the way I'm thinking or behaving.




You blame your disturbing emotions on your brain?

For me, my disturbing emotions come from my thinking.

These days it's popular to blame our brain for our problems.

But a brain never once made a "problem". We create problems.


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Invisiblesudly
Darwin's stagger


Registered: 01/05/15
Posts: 10,812
Re: How 'imperfect' are you? [Re: Tmethyl]
    #23974711 - 01/02/17 12:37 AM (7 years, 28 days ago)

Quote:

Tmethyl said:

I like this idea of exposing the ego by saying how imperfect I am, but I also realize this is another act of the ego to one-up itself and other egos.

"My ego is so strong it can say how imperfect it is."

Whereas most egos are on the level where they cannot say anything questionable about themselves.

So if I partake in saying how imperfect I am, I just strengthen my own ego.
Fuck you ego.
I don't know what to do.
I am imperfect.





If an ego was strong I don't think it would question itself.

I often question whether or not I'm scientifically illiterate.

I'm not sure if this is offensive to anyone but I think technology is a pretty good example of the power of knowledge.

I don't think my ego is strong.

I think it's somewhat adaptive.

My heart is somewhat adaptive because I believe my ego is my heart.
My ID is my gut and my super ego is my brain.

I think I've reinterpreted the concept of 7 human Chakra's into a Tripartite model of 3 nerve impulse generating centres that take form in humans as the rational brain, the emotional heart and instinctive intestines. As for karma I think Erwin Schrodinger explained it better with the idea of negative entropy and the storing of energy throughout the lifespan of an organism.

There's a question on my mind.

Quote:

Is it possible to subjugate the fight or flight response through psychedelic habituation to develop ethics by being able to draw back from instinct to think critically and make the best decision for survival?




--------------------
I am whatever Darwin needs me to be.



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OfflineRJ Tubs 202
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Re: How 'imperfect' are you? [Re: sudly]
    #23974728 - 01/02/17 12:47 AM (7 years, 28 days ago)

The ego thrives on the feeling of imperfection and perfection.

The ego supports the grandiose narcissistic and the self-loathing depressionist.


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Invisiblesudly
Darwin's stagger


Registered: 01/05/15
Posts: 10,812
Re: How 'imperfect' are you? [Re: RJ Tubs 202]
    #23974767 - 01/02/17 01:13 AM (7 years, 28 days ago)

A heartbeat in my view is imperfect perfection and the foundation of my life, for without it I'd be dead.


--------------------
I am whatever Darwin needs me to be.



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OfflineRJ Tubs 202
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Re: How 'imperfect' are you? [Re: sudly]
    #23974776 - 01/02/17 01:19 AM (7 years, 28 days ago)

Why would one wish to qualify the nature of a heartbeat?


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Invisiblesudly
Darwin's stagger


Registered: 01/05/15
Posts: 10,812
Re: How 'imperfect' are you? [Re: RJ Tubs 202]
    #23974794 - 01/02/17 01:28 AM (7 years, 28 days ago)

Because I have one.   
I feel my own heartbeat.


--------------------
I am whatever Darwin needs me to be.



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OfflineRJ Tubs 202
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Re: How 'imperfect' are you? [Re: sudly]
    #23974806 - 01/02/17 01:35 AM (7 years, 28 days ago)

And what is your motivation to label it imperfect or perfect?

Do you have the urge to qualify the nature of a rain shower?


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Invisiblesudly
Darwin's stagger


Registered: 01/05/15
Posts: 10,812
Re: How 'imperfect' are you? [Re: RJ Tubs 202]
    #23974819 - 01/02/17 01:42 AM (7 years, 28 days ago)

My motivation is the pursuit of knowledge.


--------------------
I am whatever Darwin needs me to be.



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OfflineRJ Tubs 202
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Re: How 'imperfect' are you? [Re: sudly]
    #23974861 - 01/02/17 02:08 AM (7 years, 28 days ago)

My motivation is to abandon my desire to "know" the absolute truth about anything.

And I've spent the last 25 years as a plant biologist doing research    :laugh:


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Invisiblesudly
Darwin's stagger


Registered: 01/05/15
Posts: 10,812
Re: How 'imperfect' are you? [Re: RJ Tubs 202]
    #23974892 - 01/02/17 02:26 AM (7 years, 28 days ago)

You know the absolute truth of evolution though don't you?


--------------------
I am whatever Darwin needs me to be.



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OfflineBuster_Brown
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Re: How 'imperfect' are you? [Re: RJ Tubs 202]
    #23974951 - 01/02/17 03:41 AM (7 years, 28 days ago)

Quote:

It's just surprising that no one bats an eye at a moderator moderating his own ratings, it seems like a strong bias that really is unfair.




Quote:


The ego thrives on the feeling of imperfection and perfection.

The ego supports the grandiose narcissistic and the self-loathing depressionist.




My clairsentience isn't what it used to be.


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Offlinebeforethedawn
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Re: How 'imperfect' are you? [Re: Buster_Brown]
    #23974955 - 01/02/17 03:46 AM (7 years, 28 days ago)

Oh definitely we can have some unhealthy thoughts.

But much of the time it's actually the brain creating a whole structure of cognition that is inaccurate at deciphering reality, through chemical or structural problems. That's why we're having the thoughts.

I'm not being materialist. I think consciousness can intervene on brain structure quite a lot, especially through meditation.


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Hostile humankind
Can't you see you're fucking blind?


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OfflineBuster_Brown
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Re: How 'imperfect' are you? [Re: beforethedawn]
    #23974957 - 01/02/17 03:48 AM (7 years, 28 days ago)

My clairaudience is rudimentary.


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Invisiblesudly
Darwin's stagger


Registered: 01/05/15
Posts: 10,812
Re: How 'imperfect' are you? [Re: Buster_Brown]
    #23975014 - 01/02/17 04:43 AM (7 years, 28 days ago)



--------------------
I am whatever Darwin needs me to be.



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OfflineBuster_Brown
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Re: How 'imperfect' are you? [Re: sudly]
    #23975030 - 01/02/17 05:05 AM (7 years, 28 days ago)

How my thinking is imperfect:

"Man's freedom rests on the fact that our thinking is not real unless it becomes pure thinking. A reflection in a mirror cannot make anything happen. When you look at something that is just a mirror picture and react to it, it has not really exercised any compulsion on you. If your thinking contained reality, you could not be free. The fact that your thoughts are only pictures makes your life between birth and death a schooling in freedom. For thinking exercises no compulsion, and a free life must be one in which no First Causes operate."

Rudolf Steiner on His Book "The Philosophy of Freedom"


Edited by Buster_Brown (01/02/17 05:07 AM)


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Invisiblesudly
Darwin's stagger


Registered: 01/05/15
Posts: 10,812
Re: How 'imperfect' are you? [Re: Buster_Brown]
    #23975045 - 01/02/17 05:23 AM (7 years, 28 days ago)

What are nerve impulses; Y'know, synapses and axons..


Actions potentials..


Simply put it's chemical and electrical interactions.


--------------------
I am whatever Darwin needs me to be.



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OfflineBuster_Brown
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Re: How 'imperfect' are you? [Re: sudly]
    #23975046 - 01/02/17 05:25 AM (7 years, 28 days ago)

Quote:

sudly said:
What are nerve impulses..




Selfishness?


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Invisiblesudly
Darwin's stagger


Registered: 01/05/15
Posts: 10,812
Re: How 'imperfect' are you? [Re: Buster_Brown]
    #23975049 - 01/02/17 05:27 AM (7 years, 28 days ago)

Biological responses, that's what nerve impulses are.

Biological responses to the environment around you.


--------------------
I am whatever Darwin needs me to be.



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OfflineBuster_Brown
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Re: How 'imperfect' are you? [Re: sudly]
    #23975050 - 01/02/17 05:30 AM (7 years, 28 days ago)

Explicitly selfish.


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Invisiblesudly
Darwin's stagger


Registered: 01/05/15
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Re: How 'imperfect' are you? [Re: Buster_Brown]
    #23975058 - 01/02/17 05:34 AM (7 years, 28 days ago)

So eating food? Having sex?

Being explicitly selfish is basically stealing for your own benefit, to be able to survive in some cases, but apparently not most because we don't live in the wild any more and most of us aren't homeless or in a situation where we need to steal to eat.

There is no physical harm in sharing ideas so I don't see why you feel the need to mention 'explicit' selfishness.

Survival responses, hereditary traits, genetic inheritance, instinct, intuition all seems to fit.


--------------------
I am whatever Darwin needs me to be.



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OfflineBuster_Brown
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Re: How 'imperfect' are you? [Re: sudly]
    #23975068 - 01/02/17 05:41 AM (7 years, 28 days ago)

Note the  First Cause egoic reaction to "selfishness".


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Invisiblesudly
Darwin's stagger


Registered: 01/05/15
Posts: 10,812
Re: How 'imperfect' are you? [Re: Buster_Brown]
    #23975071 - 01/02/17 05:43 AM (7 years, 28 days ago)



--------------------
I am whatever Darwin needs me to be.



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OfflineBuster_Brown
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Re: How 'imperfect' are you? [Re: sudly]
    #23975078 - 01/02/17 05:46 AM (7 years, 28 days ago)

Note the egoic response to an unwelcome argument.


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Invisibleredgreenvines
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Re: How 'imperfect' are you? [Re: sudly]
    #23975087 - 01/02/17 05:55 AM (7 years, 28 days ago)

perfect is a score to aim for on a test, maybe.
in an artificial situation, it is an artificial goal.

you want to work with the idea of suitability, not one of perfection.
you want to move through life appreciating what you can add to good effect and when you can let things be.
when the outcome is consistent with your intentions and the needs of others then the act is suitable.

forget perfect. appreciate imperfection.


--------------------
:confused: _ :brainfart:🧠  _ :finger:


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OfflineBuster_Brown
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Re: How 'imperfect' are you? [Re: sudly]
    #23975095 - 01/02/17 05:59 AM (7 years, 28 days ago)

Quote:

sudly said:





Quote:

sudly said:
For me my self improvement would come from practicing awareness to draw back in the moment to be more critical and less rash in my decision making.





Apparently not happening.





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Invisiblesudly
Darwin's stagger


Registered: 01/05/15
Posts: 10,812
Re: How 'imperfect' are you? [Re: redgreenvines]
    #23975111 - 01/02/17 06:06 AM (7 years, 28 days ago)

Is this not appreciation of imperfection?

Quote:

A heartbeat in my view is imperfect perfection and the foundation of my life, for without it I'd be dead.




It doesn't last forever.


--------------------
I am whatever Darwin needs me to be.



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Invisiblesudly
Darwin's stagger


Registered: 01/05/15
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Re: How 'imperfect' are you? [Re: Buster_Brown]
    #23975121 - 01/02/17 06:12 AM (7 years, 28 days ago)

Look man I dunno.


--------------------
I am whatever Darwin needs me to be.



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OfflineRollin.n.Strollin
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Re: How 'imperfect' are you? [Re: sudly]
    #23975128 - 01/02/17 06:15 AM (7 years, 28 days ago)

If a majority of society considers themselves perfect, which 95% do whether they consciously admit it or not, then I'm insanely imperfect. Hope that answers this well.


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Invisiblesudly
Darwin's stagger


Registered: 01/05/15
Posts: 10,812
Re: How 'imperfect' are you? [Re: Rollin.n.Strollin]
    #23975143 - 01/02/17 06:22 AM (7 years, 28 days ago)

I think the idea of 'perfect' is largely shaped by consumer advertising and marketing campaigns.

Gotta have white teeth to be on TV etc.


--------------------
I am whatever Darwin needs me to be.



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OfflineRollin.n.Strollin
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Re: How 'imperfect' are you? [Re: sudly]
    #23975154 - 01/02/17 06:29 AM (7 years, 28 days ago)

^^Pretty much, I come towards a feeling of cringing when people say shit like "I'll never be good enough, or perfect enough".

Stop stating the obvious and take hold.


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OfflineBuster_Brown
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Re: How 'imperfect' are you? [Re: Rollin.n.Strollin]
    #23975272 - 01/02/17 07:36 AM (7 years, 28 days ago)

Quote:

Rollin.n.Strollin said:

... I come towards a feeling of cringing when people say shit like "I'll never be good enough, or perfect enough".

Stop stating the obvious and take hold.




...of our pain and pleasure subject to the common good.


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Invisiblesudly
Darwin's stagger


Registered: 01/05/15
Posts: 10,812
Re: How 'imperfect' are you? [Re: Buster_Brown]
    #23975287 - 01/02/17 07:45 AM (7 years, 28 days ago)



--------------------
I am whatever Darwin needs me to be.



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OfflineBuster_Brown
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Re: How 'imperfect' are you? [Re: sudly]
    #23975310 - 01/02/17 08:02 AM (7 years, 28 days ago)



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Invisiblesudly
Darwin's stagger


Registered: 01/05/15
Posts: 10,812
Re: How 'imperfect' are you? [Re: Buster_Brown] * 1
    #23975314 - 01/02/17 08:06 AM (7 years, 28 days ago)



--------------------
I am whatever Darwin needs me to be.



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Invisibleredgreenvines
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Re: How 'imperfect' are you? [Re: Buster_Brown]
    #23975319 - 01/02/17 08:08 AM (7 years, 28 days ago)

agree: another disordered chance result


--------------------
:confused: _ :brainfart:🧠  _ :finger:


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OfflineBuster_Brown
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Re: How 'imperfect' are you? [Re: redgreenvines]
    #23975329 - 01/02/17 08:16 AM (7 years, 28 days ago)

Disordered due to it's transitory nature as opposed to the potency of the eternal substance? -more Aristotlean metaphysics


Edited by Buster_Brown (01/02/17 08:16 AM)


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Invisibleredgreenvines
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Re: How 'imperfect' are you? [Re: Buster_Brown]
    #23975467 - 01/02/17 09:22 AM (7 years, 28 days ago)

eternal substance is disorder too


--------------------
:confused: _ :brainfart:🧠  _ :finger:


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InvisibleLunarEclipse
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Re: How 'imperfect' are you? [Re: redgreenvines]
    #23975585 - 01/02/17 10:17 AM (7 years, 28 days ago)

throw enough shit onto the walls, some will stick


--------------------
Anxiety is what you make it.


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Invisibleredgreenvines
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Re: How 'imperfect' are you? [Re: LunarEclipse]
    #23975697 - 01/02/17 10:52 AM (7 years, 28 days ago)

eternal shit?


--------------------
:confused: _ :brainfart:🧠  _ :finger:


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OfflineBlueCoyote
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Re: How 'imperfect' are you? [Re: sudly]
    #23976061 - 01/02/17 12:44 PM (7 years, 28 days ago)

In a spiritual sense, I am so imperfect as it needs me to be born (again).
In a psychological sense, I am so imperfect as I can not compete in every mental and physical task given, as our brains tend for specification (at least our left side, which is most dominant in western culture).
In a physiological sense, I'm a lazy fuck and need to struggle to keep my body healthy.
In emotional sense,...
All in all I guess I am a scattered wreck who tries to keep all the parts together...
:wink:


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Invisibleredgreenvines
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Re: How 'imperfect' are you? [Re: BlueCoyote]
    #23976146 - 01/02/17 01:16 PM (7 years, 28 days ago)

that was great BC


--------------------
:confused: _ :brainfart:🧠  _ :finger:


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OfflinePsilocybinPrincess
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Re: How 'imperfect' are you? [Re: sudly]
    #23976461 - 01/02/17 03:04 PM (7 years, 28 days ago)

I don't believe that I am very imperfect at all. if I had to choose something to work on it would be my perfectionism.


--------------------
:tripping::shpongle::mushroom2::shroomer::mushroom2::shpongle::tripping:                    :tripping::shpongle::mushroom2::shroomer::mushroom2::shpongle::tripping:
"Your mind is not in the universe, the universe is in your mind."
                  :dontspillme::brainondrugs: :dontspillme:


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OfflineBuster_Brown
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Re: How 'imperfect' are you? [Re: redgreenvines]
    #23976519 - 01/02/17 03:27 PM (7 years, 28 days ago)

Quote:

redgreenvines said:
eternal substance is disorder too




Given that benevolence would acknowledge that life isn't free in the constraint of first and second causes, and grant freedom thru dispensation, I think a predilection for 'due-process' ensures a continuance albeit in a bastardized form.


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OfflineDuncan Rowhl
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Re: How 'imperfect' are you? [Re: Buster_Brown]
    #23976573 - 01/02/17 03:48 PM (7 years, 28 days ago)

Everyone's shoes shine anew.

We just need to deal with the dirt.


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InvisibleLunarEclipse
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Re: How 'imperfect' are you? [Re: redgreenvines]
    #23976590 - 01/02/17 03:58 PM (7 years, 28 days ago)

Quote:

redgreenvines said:
eternal shit?




ooh

that

smell

oh

canada



--------------------
Anxiety is what you make it.


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OfflineBuster_Brown
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Re: How 'imperfect' are you? [Re: Duncan Rowhl]
    #23976598 - 01/02/17 04:00 PM (7 years, 28 days ago)

Quote:

Duncan Rowhl said:
Everyone's shoes shine anew.

We just need to deal with the dirt.




But we depend on dirt for our sustenance, even when we try to rise above it.


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Invisibleredgreenvines
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Re: How 'imperfect' are you? [Re: Buster_Brown]
    #23976605 - 01/02/17 04:03 PM (7 years, 28 days ago)

the garden makes dirt beautiful


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Re: How 'imperfect' are you? [Re: PsilocybinPrincess]
    #23976607 - 01/02/17 04:03 PM (7 years, 28 days ago)

Quote:

PsilocybinPrincess said:
I don't believe that I am very imperfect at all. if I had to choose something to work on it would be my perfectionism.




Well that's the problem with being a princess.


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Re: How 'imperfect' are you? [Re: redgreenvines]
    #23976614 - 01/02/17 04:08 PM (7 years, 28 days ago)

Quote:

redgreenvines said:
the garden makes dirt beautiful




By cultivating the fruit of the dirt, I guess.


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Re: How 'imperfect' are you? [Re: Buster_Brown]
    #23976657 - 01/02/17 04:26 PM (7 years, 28 days ago)

Quote:

Buster_Brown said:
Quote:

Duncan Rowhl said:
Everyone's shoes shine anew.

We just need to deal with the dirt.




But we depend on dirt for our sustenance, even when we try to rise above it.




Sustenance of a world which we can perhaps rise beyond.


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Re: How 'imperfect' are you? [Re: Duncan Rowhl]
    #23976738 - 01/02/17 04:56 PM (7 years, 28 days ago)

Quote:

Duncan Rowhl said:
Sustenance of a world which we can perhaps rise beyond.




I imagine "dirt", in an allegorical sense, exists in any state as a foundation upon which to cultivate a garden.


Edited by Buster_Brown (01/02/17 05:03 PM)


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Re: How 'imperfect' are you? [Re: Buster_Brown]
    #23976755 - 01/02/17 05:03 PM (7 years, 28 days ago)

Ahh, I see.


Buy seriously ores are pretty foundational.


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Re: How 'imperfect' are you? [Re: Buster_Brown]
    #23976766 - 01/02/17 05:08 PM (7 years, 28 days ago)

Quote:

Buster_Brown said:
Quote:

Duncan Rowhl said:
Sustenance of a world which we can perhaps rise beyond.




I imagine "dirt", in an allegorical sense, exists in any state as a foundation upon which to cultivate a garden.




True indeed of a dualism, which begs the question: is dualism the fundamental imperfection?


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Re: How 'imperfect' are you? [Re: Duncan Rowhl]
    #23976826 - 01/02/17 05:29 PM (7 years, 28 days ago)

A state without advantages and disadvantages. I'm having a difficult time imagining it.


Edited by Buster_Brown (01/02/17 05:31 PM)


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Re: How 'imperfect' are you? [Re: Buster_Brown]
    #23976861 - 01/02/17 05:46 PM (7 years, 28 days ago)

Quote:

Buster_Brown said:
A state without advantages and disadvantages. I'm having a difficult time imagining it.




Hence, monism stands as a theory in theology.

Ones investment is in the material or the monad.


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Re: How 'imperfect' are you? [Re: Duncan Rowhl]
    #23977410 - 01/02/17 09:44 PM (7 years, 28 days ago)

Quote:

Duncan Rowhl said:
Quote:

Buster_Brown said:
Quote:

Duncan Rowhl said:
Sustenance of a world which we can perhaps rise beyond.




I imagine "dirt", in an allegorical sense, exists in any state as a foundation upon which to cultivate a garden.




True indeed of a dualism, which begs the question: is dualism the fundamental imperfection?




What does gardening and dirt have to do with dualism?


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Re: How 'imperfect' are you? [Re: sudly]
    #23977524 - 01/02/17 10:33 PM (7 years, 28 days ago)

Dirt (sin) began on a shiny shoe (the perfection).

Dirt (sin) could also tarnish a shiny orthopaedic shoe (the highest perfection).

Different shoes for different blokes. :thumbup:


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Re: How 'imperfect' are you? [Re: Duncan Rowhl]
    #23977540 - 01/02/17 10:40 PM (7 years, 28 days ago)



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Re: How 'imperfect' are you? [Re: Duncan Rowhl]
    #23977950 - 01/03/17 03:51 AM (7 years, 27 days ago)

Quote:

Duncan Rowhl said:


Dirt (sin) could also tarnish a shiny orthopaedic shoe (the highest perfection).






That's a take on "strength made perfect in weakness", I assume.

If I am correct, we might assume that by the same agency, happiness would be made perfect in misery.


Edited by Buster_Brown (01/03/17 11:15 AM)


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Re: How 'imperfect' are you? [Re: Buster_Brown]
    #23978628 - 01/03/17 11:55 AM (7 years, 27 days ago)

Quote:

Buster_Brown said:
Quote:

Duncan Rowhl said:


Dirt (sin) could also tarnish a shiny orthopaedic shoe (the highest perfection).






That's a take on "strength made perfect in weakness", I assume.

If I am correct, we might assume that by the same agency, happiness would be made perfect in misery.





Your proposition is based on the physical, yet the 'perfect' can never be in the physical, since the physical is subject to dualism, which incorporates a 'dark' (untruth).

The 'perfect' is proposed to be the true state of the eternal spirt which has always existed in parallel to the physical plane, which is the product of the spirits 'dream' initiated for the purpose of refinement.

The furthest point of cleansing on the material plane is not where a state of perfection is, but where the state of gnosis is, to inherit awareness of the place of where perfection is and has always been.

A part of the 'dirt' then is infact life itself, but its condition is relative to it being the spirits proving ground.


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Re: How 'imperfect' are you? [Re: Duncan Rowhl]
    #23978680 - 01/03/17 12:18 PM (7 years, 27 days ago)

you romance the spirits then in hope that perfection will fall upon you.


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Re: How 'imperfect' are you? [Re: redgreenvines]
    #23978720 - 01/03/17 12:39 PM (7 years, 27 days ago)

Quote:

redgreenvines said:
you romance the spirits then in hope that perfection will fall upon you.




It's disappointing that you see yourself so remote from perfection.

You should try to become acquainted with yourself, take yourself for what you are and get on with a good life.


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Re: How 'imperfect' are you? [Re: Duncan Rowhl]
    #23978751 - 01/03/17 12:50 PM (7 years, 27 days ago)

the good life being romance of perfect spirits?
can you say what you mean, don't beat about the bush.
is this about your relationship with perfect beings?


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Re: How 'imperfect' are you? [Re: redgreenvines] * 1
    #23978758 - 01/03/17 12:52 PM (7 years, 27 days ago)

Quote:

redgreenvines said:
the good life being romance of perfect spirits?




Happiness. :thumbup:


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Re: How 'imperfect' are you? [Re: Duncan Rowhl]
    #23978774 - 01/03/17 12:56 PM (7 years, 27 days ago)

all right then,
you have admitted a mysticism that is disguised as philosophical formalism.


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Re: How 'imperfect' are you? [Re: redgreenvines]
    #23978786 - 01/03/17 01:01 PM (7 years, 27 days ago)

Quote:

redgreenvines said:
all right then,
you have admitted a mysticism that is disguised as philosophical formalism.




If it makes you happy. :wink:


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Re: How 'imperfect' are you? [Re: Duncan Rowhl]
    #23978819 - 01/03/17 01:14 PM (7 years, 27 days ago)

don't do it for me, I have no interest in it.


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Re: How 'imperfect' are you? [Re: redgreenvines]
    #23978852 - 01/03/17 01:26 PM (7 years, 27 days ago)

Quote:

redgreenvines said:
don't do it for me, I have no interest in it.




Do happiness for yourself. :thumbup:


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Re: How 'imperfect' are you? [Re: Duncan Rowhl]
    #23979889 - 01/03/17 08:16 PM (7 years, 27 days ago)

I'd like to respond to op with first things come to mind:

I'm inpatient at times, and impulsive, to a fault.  I'm failing to a degree of one of the very earliest lessons taught to my own.

I'm a little slow or oblivious at times, ignorantly optimistic in a way, and thick headed.  Some lessons I notice have to be beaten in, when a lot of frustration and toil could've been saved were I as sharp and clear as I once was. ....


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Re: How 'imperfect' are you? [Re: DoneKildatReason]
    #23980035 - 01/03/17 09:09 PM (7 years, 27 days ago)

Also, I think I might be too tough on my ol lady..... Either that or she can't handle an acceptable/justifiable level of toughness/ass-chew - if the latter is true, and if I love her, which GOD I DO, then I need to accommodate that sensitivity by being ..... Less up front or harsh..... Damn she can sure dish it out though...... God I love her


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Re: How 'imperfect' are you? [Re: DoneKildatReason]
    #23983705 - 01/05/17 11:42 AM (7 years, 25 days ago)

yeah, I guess you are all kind of right there :smirk:
True perfection, and/or true imperfection can NOT be found in the pure physical realm.
But nevertheless it needs both sides in contrast to exist on a physical realm.
That's kind of how duality works. If you focus on the extremes to identify them, you can not find real objects for the comparison on a physical plane. And if you take facts from the physical plane, it's all interwoven parts of more or less parts of the extremes.
Duality is the combination of existence an non-existence, which forms our 'singular' physical reality.
:3rd_eye:


--------------------
Though lovers be lost love shall not  And death shall have no dominion
......................................................
"Our scientific power has outrun our spiritual power. We have guided missiles and misguided men."Martin Luther King, Jr.
'Acceptance is the absolute key - at that moment you gain freedom and you gain power and you gain courage'


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Re: How 'imperfect' are you? [Re: BlueCoyote]
    #23984401 - 01/05/17 04:27 PM (7 years, 25 days ago)

No it's not, duality is the existence of body and mind.

You can't just say shit's immaterial and get away with it, or at least you can't sound rational.


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Re: How 'imperfect' are you? [Re: sudly]
    #23984424 - 01/05/17 04:32 PM (7 years, 25 days ago)

And has there any serious definition of mind yet ? I haven't heard of one.
Body represents the existence in the material realm. Mind represents existence in the spiritual realm.
Yes, and that is why humans can be entities in between duality, by experiencing this connection and even express it.


Edited by BlueCoyote (01/05/17 04:38 PM)


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Re: How 'imperfect' are you? [Re: BlueCoyote]
    #23984454 - 01/05/17 04:39 PM (7 years, 25 days ago)

is that your definition?
existence in the "spiritual realm"
did you define spiritual?


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Re: How 'imperfect' are you? [Re: redgreenvines]
    #23984464 - 01/05/17 04:44 PM (7 years, 25 days ago)

Yes, spiritual in the sense of perfection, the physically unreachable extremes.
Mind loves to play with those concepts.

But, sorry I am not native english speaking, so there always might be room for misunderstandings.


Edited by BlueCoyote (01/05/17 04:48 PM)


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Re: How 'imperfect' are you? [Re: BlueCoyote]
    #23984521 - 01/05/17 05:00 PM (7 years, 25 days ago)

Mind = brain and spinal cord (Central Nervous System)
Body = everything outside brain and spinal cord (Peripheral Nervous System)



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Re: How 'imperfect' are you? [Re: BlueCoyote]
    #23984563 - 01/05/17 05:10 PM (7 years, 25 days ago)

Quote:

BlueCoyote said:
...
Mind loves to play with those concepts.
...



now you are using the term "Mind" to refer to self
as in
"I love to play with those concepts."

so too many words mean the same thing, or one or more of them are masking their meaning

eg is self == spirit == mind (and ==  body)?

or is each a completely different facet, and possible reflection of the others?


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Re: How 'imperfect' are you? [Re: sudly]
    #23985061 - 01/05/17 08:18 PM (7 years, 25 days ago)

Quote:

sudly said:
Mind = brain and spinal cord (Central Nervous System)
Body = everything outside brain and spinal cord (Peripheral Nervous System)






I think we are better off defining mind as the interaction between conscious meat and its environment. This makes sense colloquially. We commonly refer to my "mind being on something" or we tell people to "get your mind out of the gutter" etc. The brain and spinal cord can be considered the source of consciousness, but mind requires an environment.

Which begs the question can you be conscious without a mind? We talk a lot about "mindfulness" these days. Being mindful of our place in the world, relationships etc. We can be more or less mindful, but to be mindful in the first place you need a conscious piece of meat.


--------------------
Kupo said:
let's fuel the robots with psilocybin.

cez said:
everyone should smoke dmt for religion.

dustinthewind13 said:
euthanasia and prostitution should be legal and located in the same building.

White Beard said:
if you see the buddha on the road, rape him, then kill him. then rape him again.


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Re: How 'imperfect' are you? [Re: blingbling]
    #23985188 - 01/05/17 09:09 PM (7 years, 25 days ago)

Quote:

I think we are better off defining mind as the interaction between conscious meat and its environment.




Fair enough.

Though I don't agree with your use of the term consciousness because by dictionary definition it means to be aware of one's environment.

Quote:

Consciousness: the state of being aware of and responsive to one's surroundings.




To add to that I think something can be conscious without having a conscience.


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Re: How 'imperfect' are you? [Re: sudly]
    #23985206 - 01/05/17 09:16 PM (7 years, 25 days ago)

Yeah maybe the dictionary definition is not the best for our purposes. To me consciousness is something biological, it can be taken away with drugs, a hard hit to the head etc. You can't really say the same about a mind. Sure you still need the conscious meat to have a mind, but I still think it is not the same thing. Mind is more like an event taking place between consciousness and the rest of reality.


--------------------
Kupo said:
let's fuel the robots with psilocybin.

cez said:
everyone should smoke dmt for religion.

dustinthewind13 said:
euthanasia and prostitution should be legal and located in the same building.

White Beard said:
if you see the buddha on the road, rape him, then kill him. then rape him again.


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Re: How 'imperfect' are you? [Re: blingbling]
    #23985246 - 01/05/17 09:29 PM (7 years, 25 days ago)

Truth ain't no democracy.


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Re: How 'imperfect' are you? [Re: redgreenvines]
    #23985734 - 01/06/17 03:00 AM (7 years, 24 days ago)

Quote:

redgreenvines said:
Quote:

BlueCoyote said:
...
Mind loves to play with those concepts.
...



now you are using the term "Mind" to refer to self
as in
"I love to play with those concepts."

so too many words mean the same thing, or one or more of them are masking their meaning

eg is self == spirit == mind (and ==  body)?

or is each a completely different facet, and possible reflection of the others?



I guess the simplest explanation is that of condensed energy or coming from high frequency to lower frequency. Like, matter is condensed energy.
Our brain might be an organ (physical) which due to its function (consciousness) reaches into the realm of the spirit (mind).
:fairy:


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Re: How 'imperfect' are you? [Re: BlueCoyote]
    #23985770 - 01/06/17 04:04 AM (7 years, 24 days ago)





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Re: How 'imperfect' are you? [Re: sudly]
    #23988617 - 01/07/17 06:17 AM (7 years, 23 days ago)

Btw, you can see the body-mind duality also as a duality of existence and nonexistence.
And since you like grafix, I show you three different ways, how this could relate to the material and spiritual realm in regards of existence and non-existence, so you can see the concept:




Edited by BlueCoyote (01/07/17 06:29 AM)


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Re: How 'imperfect' are you? [Re: BlueCoyote]
    #23988667 - 01/07/17 07:06 AM (7 years, 23 days ago)

perfection is arbitrary
perfect form is a lie


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Re: How 'imperfect' are you? [Re: redgreenvines]
    #23988715 - 01/07/17 07:51 AM (7 years, 23 days ago)

Quote:

redgreenvines said:
perfection is arbitrary
perfect form is a lie




A lie aspires to perfection in a metaphor
If a metaphor is a lie


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Re: How 'imperfect' are you? [Re: Buster_Brown]
    #23989037 - 01/07/17 10:16 AM (7 years, 23 days ago)

symbolic resonance (like metaphors) is not a lie, it is a link to something similar, links are not lies, but they are not truths either.

bridges are important joinings but they are not more truthful than just joining.


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Re: How 'imperfect' are you? [Re: redgreenvines]
    #23989078 - 01/07/17 10:32 AM (7 years, 23 days ago)

Possibly; It's a stretch of the imagination to see the similarities between being strapped for cash and feeling needy enough to strap on a gun with the equivalent of being physically beaten, but the limitation of imagination is my own imperfection.


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Re: How 'imperfect' are you? [Re: Buster_Brown]
    #23989100 - 01/07/17 10:40 AM (7 years, 23 days ago)

even strapping on a gun, you are bound by the limits of physics, and the constraints of each situation, stretching the imagination is a matter of elongating the bridges that join similar ideas.


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Re: How 'imperfect' are you? [Re: BlueCoyote]
    #23989842 - 01/07/17 03:24 PM (7 years, 23 days ago)

Quote:

BlueCoyote said:
Btw, you can see the body-mind duality also as a duality of existence and nonexistence.
And since you like grafix, I show you three different ways, how this could relate to the material and spiritual realm in regards of existence and non-existence, so you can see the concept:







Nonexistence is non-existent.



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Re: How 'imperfect' are you? [Re: sudly]
    #23990796 - 01/07/17 08:20 PM (7 years, 23 days ago)

It's lack of existence
:kingtard:


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Re: How 'imperfect' are you? [Re: BlueCoyote]
    #23990834 - 01/07/17 08:33 PM (7 years, 23 days ago)

Personally I'm horrified by the suggestion my mind doesn't exist or is in a state where it lacks existence.

If you really want to simplify dualism without going full tard then just say the world is explicit and objective while thoughts are implicit and subjective.

If you realise that the human brain and nervous system work on chemical and electrical signals then you cannot in good faith say the mind lacks existence.


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Re: How 'imperfect' are you? [Re: sudly]
    #23991600 - 01/08/17 04:16 AM (7 years, 22 days ago)

Don't worry, even if the mind doesn't exist or you are out of it, or maybe lost it, you still have your brain and consciousness :wink:
Normally it's not an on-off condition for existence. It's most of the time a smooth gradual transition, or just partly lacking. That's where 'imperfection' stems from.


Edited by BlueCoyote (01/08/17 04:23 AM)


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Re: How 'imperfect' are you? [Re: BlueCoyote]
    #23991631 - 01/08/17 05:04 AM (7 years, 22 days ago)

Do you not see a correlation between the brain and the mind?


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Re: How 'imperfect' are you? [Re: sudly]
    #23991781 - 01/08/17 08:10 AM (7 years, 22 days ago)

Of course. A brain is needed to make us aware and conscious so we can delve into the concepts of the eternal.
For us it seems as like with the development of our brain we developed all those concepts.
Wrong. The concepts have been there all along already and we only start to discover them with the development of our brains :wink:


--------------------
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......................................................
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Re: How 'imperfect' are you? [Re: BlueCoyote]
    #23991794 - 01/08/17 08:19 AM (7 years, 22 days ago)

blue, how do you know that a concept (idea) existed before we were here to think it, share it, codevelop it etc.


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Re: How 'imperfect' are you? [Re: redgreenvines] * 1
    #23992707 - 01/08/17 03:15 PM (7 years, 22 days ago)

Maybe just let's take 'fire' as an example.
Our ancestors did exist very long without the usage of fire. Like generally every other animal on this planet (there might be exceptions). They didn't have the concept of using it yet, right ?
Maybe they wished for it, knew it was making light and warmth but they had no idea how to start, use or possess it.
It was not conceptualized yet, even it existed before.

I'm speculating now, but I guess you can take any (basic) human invention and you will find relevance and similarities of those concepts already functioning in nature itself. They might be better called 'discoveries'. Isn't it funnily often called the 'invention of fire', the 'invention' of morse code, even the 'invention' of electricity ? :lol:
Of course that's not true for specific complex machines, I guess, but the 'concept' of machines even exists in nature before we had any idea of it anyhow :smile:

We could move on to social concepts, such like family, friendship, war, etc... We didn't invent it. It all was there before in nature.

And by a side note. Exactly that is why it is so horrifying to loose this nature by our human idiocy. We are cut off from our roots to verify the concepts in plain nature and how they work together. So as a result it is much easier to propagate idiotic concepts (which work, but regularly have other huge disadvantages) to influence and control the non knowing population into some desired direction.

Sorry for the ramble.


Edited by BlueCoyote (01/08/17 03:37 PM)


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Re: How 'imperfect' are you? [Re: BlueCoyote]
    #23992816 - 01/08/17 03:50 PM (7 years, 22 days ago)

Quote:

BlueCoyote said:
Maybe just let's take 'fire' as an example.



the idea of fire occurred as soon as a person or animal saw it.
the idea of using or starting a fire came later
Quote:

BlueCoyote said:
... but I guess you can take any (basic) human invention and you will find relevance and similarities of those concepts already functioning in nature itself. They might be better called 'discoveries'. Isn't it funnily often called the 'invention of fire', the 'invention' of morse code, even the 'invention' of electricity ? :lol:
Of course that's not true for specific complex machines, I guess, but the 'concept' of machines even exists in nature before we had any idea of it anyhow :smile:

We could move on to social concepts, such like family, friendship, war, etc... We didn't invent it. It all was there before in nature.

And by a side note.



this sounds great but it is full of assumptions that ignore the basic difference between the thing existing and the idea of a thing existing.
An idea of a thing only exists when a mind picks up, holds, or records that idea. The idea of it did not exist because the thing existed on it's own.

Below you go on about relationships existing before they were imagined which is a double disconnect for me, since in any culture a relationship is shaped by the culture, but the culture itself was shaped by history after evolution. Even the relationships of wolves who have social structure evolved to what it is today.

parentage existed, but as societies exist through time, the meaning of parentage has expanded etc. from merely genetic donor to moral and cultural interpreter.

things give rise to ideas, which become things in themselves, and condition the things they were derived from by conditioning the culture that exists because it 'functionally' formalizes relationships.

Quote:

BlueCoyote said:Exactly that is why it is so horrifying to loose this nature by our human idiocy. We are cut off from our roots to verify the concepts in plain nature and how they work together. So as a result it is much easier to propagate idiotic concepts (which work, but regularly have other huge disadvantages) to influence and control the non knowing population into some desired direction.

Sorry for the ramble.




good ramble


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Re: How 'imperfect' are you? [Re: BlueCoyote]
    #23992913 - 01/08/17 04:14 PM (7 years, 22 days ago)

That's a pretty platonic way of looking at things. Plato argued that geometry existed before it was conceptualised and used the fact that it can be 'realised' rather than 'taught' as evidence for this. It's kinda hard to explain. It's kinda like how what is logical is logical regardless of the facts. 2+2=4 no matter whether we are talking about apples or oranges. So logic and by extension geometry must exist prior to material reality. All things exist in the ether before they find material existence. I'm not really into that sort of thing, but it is interesting.


--------------------
Kupo said:
let's fuel the robots with psilocybin.

cez said:
everyone should smoke dmt for religion.

dustinthewind13 said:
euthanasia and prostitution should be legal and located in the same building.

White Beard said:
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Re: How 'imperfect' are you? [Re: redgreenvines]
    #23992969 - 01/08/17 04:34 PM (7 years, 22 days ago)

Nobody needs to name a concept for it to exist in reality :wink:

[Aehm except for creation mode, lol. But that's another story where things go vice versa :grin:]


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Re: How 'imperfect' are you? [Re: blingbling]
    #23992971 - 01/08/17 04:34 PM (7 years, 22 days ago)

'zackly "geometry" did not exist until it was thought through, but geometries and geometric shapes and relations have been fundamental physical realities long before they were observed, before life even existed,, and certainly way before they were thought about.

Later these relationships and shapes were formalized into the language of geometry with the analytic mathematics that weaves through those ideas.

All relate to realities that existed before being observed and considered (before having been given mental weight, presence, mental-materiality: ideas)

but until they were mentally picked up, they did not exist as ideas


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Re: How 'imperfect' are you? [Re: redgreenvines]
    #23993529 - 01/08/17 07:44 PM (7 years, 22 days ago)

Well logic must be a truth regardless of what physical material exists in the universe, so in some sense I guess it must exist prior to someone having the idea 2+2=4. But this stuff can get pretty tricky and I don't really know enough about it to be sure one way or the other. Some of the quantum mechanics stuff seems to defy logic, but that could just be because we haven't measured it right, don't have the right theory etc.


--------------------
Kupo said:
let's fuel the robots with psilocybin.

cez said:
everyone should smoke dmt for religion.

dustinthewind13 said:
euthanasia and prostitution should be legal and located in the same building.

White Beard said:
if you see the buddha on the road, rape him, then kill him. then rape him again.


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Re: How 'imperfect' are you? [Re: blingbling]
    #23993705 - 01/08/17 08:30 PM (7 years, 22 days ago)

We may have named physics physics but we didn't invent it.



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Re: How 'imperfect' are you? [Re: sudly]
    #23994415 - 01/09/17 05:25 AM (7 years, 21 days ago)

Maybe it doesn't make sense, but the great thing about philosophy is that now we get to spend the next 5000 years arguing over why it doesn't make sense :cheersyoufuck:


--------------------
Kupo said:
let's fuel the robots with psilocybin.

cez said:
everyone should smoke dmt for religion.

dustinthewind13 said:
euthanasia and prostitution should be legal and located in the same building.

White Beard said:
if you see the buddha on the road, rape him, then kill him. then rape him again.


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Re: How 'imperfect' are you? [Re: BlueCoyote]
    #23995362 - 01/09/17 02:06 PM (7 years, 21 days ago)

To add a bit to this beautiful thread:
Quote:

BlueCoyote said:
Nobody needs to name a concept for it to exist in reality :wink:



But it helps our minds a lot to understand what's going on...
But be aware, even if concepts reach into the spiritual realm, most of them are by no way eternal, but also only conditional.
And ideas, are kind of even more spiritual than concepts, I guess. They reach into the ideal (edit:back to the thread), which is the iconic unchanging, which is not physically representable.

:holyshitbubbles:


Edited by BlueCoyote (01/09/17 02:22 PM)


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Re: How 'imperfect' are you? [Re: BlueCoyote]
    #23995416 - 01/09/17 02:33 PM (7 years, 21 days ago)

That's one position. Another is, yes, we did invent it. Depends who you ask.


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Re: How 'imperfect' are you? [Re: blingbling]
    #23995508 - 01/09/17 03:16 PM (7 years, 21 days ago)

Well then, how about we ask a different question.

Quote:

Was calculus discovered or invented?






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Re: How 'imperfect' are you? [Re: sudly]
    #24004291 - 01/12/17 02:26 PM (7 years, 18 days ago)

:thumbup: Great find !


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Re: How 'imperfect' are you? [Re: sudly]
    #24005330 - 01/12/17 07:38 PM (7 years, 18 days ago)

Quote:

sudly said:

What's one thing you would like to improve about yourself?





Abandoning the notion I can become an improved version of myself.


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Re: How 'imperfect' are you? [Re: RJ Tubs 202]
    #24005380 - 01/12/17 07:56 PM (7 years, 18 days ago)

I know I'm not perfect, nor do I ever plan to be. I feel like a piece of shit sometimes even though I'm actually at a point in my life where I'm doing way better than I've ever did. My greatest achievements from back in my problem days don't really mean shit to me today. But I try to not let my thoughts of where I think I should be overwhelm me. I'm me bitches!


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Re: How 'imperfect' are you? [Re: RJ Tubs 202]
    #24005446 - 01/12/17 08:13 PM (7 years, 18 days ago)

Quote:

RJ Tubs 202 said:
Quote:

sudly said:

What's one thing you would like to improve about yourself?





Abandoning the notion I can become an improved version of myself.




:awesomenod:

It would be like putting lipstick on a turd.
Sure the turd is prettier than it was, but it's still a turd.

Maybe I undervalue personal identity? :lol:
Personal identity wrote this post. :lol::lol:
I watched it happen. :lol::lol::lol:


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Re: How 'imperfect' are you? [Re: sudly]
    #24005522 - 01/12/17 08:41 PM (7 years, 18 days ago)

Cutting back on beer would be a big plus for mind/body/soul


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Re: How 'imperfect' are you? [Re: Tmethyl]
    #24008277 - 01/13/17 09:04 PM (7 years, 17 days ago)

I refuse to make my life a perpetual self-improvement project.


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Re: How 'imperfect' are you? [Re: RJ Tubs 202]
    #24008553 - 01/14/17 12:23 AM (7 years, 16 days ago)

And yet we are clay in the potter's hands.


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Re: How 'imperfect' are you? [Re: Buster_Brown] * 1
    #24008602 - 01/14/17 12:54 AM (7 years, 16 days ago)

So imperfect I fucked up my agar both too moist and too dry, eeenuhhhh.


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Re: How 'imperfect' are you? [Re: redgreenvines]
    #24076585 - 02/09/17 03:48 AM (6 years, 11 months ago)

Quote:

redgreenvines said:
perfection is arbitrary
perfect form is a lie




In examination, one may accept environmental vectors as 'whips'
and parents wielding the whip over their child's education.

However the vector of vanity will object to the terminology
due to the image of a mother whipping her children.

Indeed perfection may be a lie but the pursuit of justice
may accept a woman's vanity and objection.

The vector of improved form then supplying notions of sugar-plums,lol.


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Re: How 'imperfect' are you? [Re: Buster_Brown] * 1
    #24076807 - 02/09/17 08:01 AM (6 years, 11 months ago)

Whipping Post



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Re: How 'imperfect' are you? [Re: LunarEclipse]
    #24076916 - 02/09/17 09:17 AM (6 years, 11 months ago)

I retract the argument in consideration that I stand to be held to similar arguments concerning etiquette.

On the face of it, it's natural to correct perceived deficiencies, but in concordance with doing unto others as I want done to myself I must desist.


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Re: How 'imperfect' are you? [Re: Buster_Brown]
    #24077434 - 02/09/17 01:17 PM (6 years, 11 months ago)

Very nice use of the English language Buster. :ooo:


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Re: How 'imperfect' are you? [Re: Buster_Brown]
    #24080578 - 02/10/17 07:15 PM (6 years, 11 months ago)

Quote:

redgreenvines said:

perfection is arbitrary




Amen. Very well said . . .  Perfection is a fantasy that will never reach fruition.

It's one way we employ self-hatred. This notion we're lacking and not good enough.


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Re: How 'imperfect' are you? [Re: RJ Tubs 202]
    #24080637 - 02/10/17 07:36 PM (6 years, 11 months ago)

Why isn't it that we start off as babies and we mature to be able to defend for ourselves and provide our own resources.

I think it means we are good enough but we can always get better.


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Re: How 'imperfect' are you? [Re: sudly]
    #24080654 - 02/10/17 07:43 PM (6 years, 11 months ago)

What part of ourselves, exactly, can be "improved"?

Why do we insist on proclaiming change is qualitative in nature?


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Re: How 'imperfect' are you? [Re: RJ Tubs 202]
    #24081115 - 02/10/17 11:25 PM (6 years, 11 months ago)

Skill wise/ability wise. e.g. I don't know how to build a go kart but I can learn.


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Re: How 'imperfect' are you? [Re: Tmethyl]
    #24081735 - 02/11/17 08:57 AM (6 years, 11 months ago)

Quote:

Tmethyl said:
Very nice use of the English language Buster. :ooo:




I dreamed Ratatosk was pleased.


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Re: How 'imperfect' are you? [Re: Buster_Brown]
    #24083205 - 02/11/17 08:52 PM (6 years, 11 months ago)

The ego wants to attain..and so I say this..As a Grandmaster Freemason..

I am 33.379689471345689012389% imperfect!

other than that..the lack or suffering..or loss for example..each person has a bit of this in them..

otherwise everything would be perfect..

the reasons are otherwise abstruce?


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Re: How 'imperfect' are you? [Re: sudly]
    #24083429 - 02/11/17 10:53 PM (6 years, 11 months ago)

Quote:

sudly said:

Skill wise/ability wise. e.g. I don't know how to build a go kart but I can learn.




If you learn how to build a go-kart, have you really "improved" your self?

There're significant repercussions for adopting the belief we can improve ourselves.

The self-improvement project never ends. If we live to 110, we still have more to improve.

It's a deal with the Devil. If we believe we can improve, we believe we can worsen and deteriorate. 

If you lose 10 pounds, it creates a positive feeling of success (improvement).

Then, if you gain 10 pounds, that creates a negative feeling of failure.

This perspective makes life an emotional roller-coaster (leads to anxiety/depression)


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Re: How 'imperfect' are you? [Re: RJ Tubs 202]
    #24083503 - 02/11/17 11:47 PM (6 years, 11 months ago)

Quote:

If you learn how to build a go-kart, have you really "improved" your self?




That's a pretty sweet gain in my view.


What if you learned to build a tv or a radio? Did they "improve" anything?
Has anyone ever made a difference in their own lives?


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Re: How 'imperfect' are you? [Re: sudly]
    #24083549 - 02/12/17 12:21 AM (6 years, 11 months ago)

If I learned to build a new type of radio, did I "improve" anything?    Even if I worked for Hitler?

Why do we label change "good" or "bad"?    Isn't this the original sin?

Many claim this is a fundamental cause of suffering. 

It is not my idea . . .


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Re: How 'imperfect' are you? [Re: RJ Tubs 202]
    #24083561 - 02/12/17 12:29 AM (6 years, 11 months ago)

I think the point is that we label it ourselves.


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Re: How 'imperfect' are you? [Re: sudly] * 1
    #24083585 - 02/12/17 12:47 AM (6 years, 11 months ago)

I agree.  "Improvement" is what we decide it is.  It is arbitrary.

But no matter our definition, it still comes with the downfalls.


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Re: How 'imperfect' are you? [Re: RJ Tubs 202]
    #24083608 - 02/12/17 01:11 AM (6 years, 11 months ago)

Like the effort of time management and such.


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Re: How 'imperfect' are you? [Re: sudly] * 1
    #24087590 - 02/13/17 03:48 PM (6 years, 11 months ago)

Quote:

sudly said:
Like the effort of time management and such.



I guess, what he meant is 'improvement' is like a tool. It can be used for good and bad. Improvement in itself is morally neutral.


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Re: How 'imperfect' are you? [Re: BlueCoyote]
    #24087608 - 02/13/17 03:53 PM (6 years, 11 months ago)

It's a thing for the individual.
The idea is that you choose your own path and hopefully what you learn benefits you in life by teaching you valuable skills and knowledge.


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Re: How 'imperfect' are you? [Re: RJ Tubs 202]
    #24101804 - 02/19/17 01:30 AM (6 years, 11 months ago)

Quote:

RJ Tubs 202 said:
I agree. "Improvement" is what we decide it is. It is arbitrary.

But no matter our definition, it still comes with the downfalls.



I thought improvement came from making your own decisions whether for better or worse, that's also a part of taking responsibility and awareness of one's self. 

If so then arbitrary isn't universal.

Because the human nervous system is rational and reasoned.
If you poison it, it won't respond well.


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Re: How 'imperfect' are you? [Re: BlueCoyote]
    #24101813 - 02/19/17 01:39 AM (6 years, 11 months ago)

Quote:

BlueCoyote said:
Quote:

sudly said:
Like the effort of time management and such.



I guess, what he meant is 'improvement' is like a tool. It can be used for good and bad. Improvement in itself is morally neutral.




Exactly.

A bank robber, stalker, rapist, or suicide-bomber can "improve" their methods.


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Re: How 'imperfect' are you? [Re: RJ Tubs 202]
    #24101822 - 02/19/17 01:56 AM (6 years, 11 months ago)

We as a human society have decided through law that acts such as robbery, stalking, rape or terrorism are illegal.

"Improvement in itself is morally neutral."

Not if improvement results from making an informed decision.

In order to make a decision you have to have a moral compass to decide between what is right and what is wrong, or?


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OfflineRJ Tubs 202
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Registered: 09/20/08
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Re: How 'imperfect' are you? [Re: sudly]
    #24101834 - 02/19/17 02:08 AM (6 years, 11 months ago)

Some societies have decided terrorism is a moral imperative.

I don't think there is any prerequisite for decision-making.


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Invisiblesudly
Darwin's stagger


Registered: 01/05/15
Posts: 10,812
Re: How 'imperfect' are you? [Re: RJ Tubs 202]
    #24102736 - 02/19/17 01:34 PM (6 years, 11 months ago)

Can't people have a different moral compass?

I mean isn't that how Saudia Arabia came to be..


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InvisibleWesker
I'm a teapot

Registered: 09/07/15
Posts: 225
Re: How 'imperfect' are you? [Re: sudly]
    #24112785 - 02/23/17 07:25 AM (6 years, 11 months ago)

I think too much.


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OfflineBlueCoyote
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Registered: 05/07/04
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Re: How 'imperfect' are you? [Re: sudly]
    #24113597 - 02/23/17 01:53 PM (6 years, 11 months ago)

Quote:

sudly said:
Can't people have a different moral compass?

I mean isn't that how Saudi Arabia came to be..



I lost the red hmm thread ? But yah, Saudis Arabia proves, that in improvements in itselves doesn't lie a morality. The morality you can decypher from, is how it is used.
Like someone invented a hammes for putting a nail into the wall, and on the other side, someone invented a hammer to smash somethings head. (do things have heads?)
The improvement in itself can not be morally valuated, only the useage of it.
The improvement is a magnifier/multiplier of the user's morality in acting, as every tool is.


Edited by BlueCoyote (02/23/17 02:01 PM)


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Invisiblesudly
Darwin's stagger


Registered: 01/05/15
Posts: 10,812
Re: How 'imperfect' are you? [Re: BlueCoyote]
    #24122672 - 02/27/17 03:35 AM (6 years, 10 months ago)

I just think morality lies in value, be it formed through individual or cultural conditioning.


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