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InvisibleballsalsaMDiscord
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Re: Socialism fails again [Re: qman]
    #23973071 - 01/01/17 01:36 PM (7 years, 29 days ago)

Quote:

qman said:
Quote:

ballsalsa said:
also, are we not going to acknowledge that the premise of this thread is an erroneous opinion piece?




What is the status of Price and his company today?

Is his business model sustainable over the longer term?




Why do you want me to repost shit i already posted ITT?  Just scroll up the page a few posts


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Offlineqman
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Re: Socialism fails again [Re: akira_akuma]
    #23973073 - 01/01/17 01:37 PM (7 years, 29 days ago)

Quote:

akira_akuma said:
Quote:

qman said:
The main reason for the current economic inequality is the high level of people relative to employment, wasn't it the socialists that wanted tens of millions of illegals to saturate the US labor market?

Also, shipping jobs out of the US also put labor in the US at a major disadvantage.



then why are you here?




With chaos comes order, I guess that's why we are all "here". :shrug:


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Offlineqman
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Re: Socialism fails again [Re: ballsalsa]
    #23973078 - 01/01/17 01:39 PM (7 years, 29 days ago)

Quote:

ballsalsa said:
Yeah!  I would gladly take no risk and live at a subsistence level with no taxes to pay than be a multi-millionaire who has to pay taxes...




Because the process to become a multimillionaire comes with no risks?  And paying 75% in taxes truly inspires one to take those risks in the first place?


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InvisibleballsalsaMDiscord
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Re: Socialism fails again [Re: qman]
    #23973095 - 01/01/17 01:48 PM (7 years, 29 days ago)

did i say there were no risks?  Its pretty simple,  be poor, and pay no(or little) income tax, or make money, and pay the taxes.  Whatever the risks, those are the options.  The only inspiration necessary is the inspiration to have more money than the next guy, a goal that seems almost universal among humans.  Not feeling inspired yet?  Fine, you can be one of what the WSJ calls "lucky duckies".  People so poor that they don't pay taxes, and can't generate debt because nobody will extend credit to them.


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Offlineqman
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Re: Socialism fails again [Re: ballsalsa]
    #23973108 - 01/01/17 01:52 PM (7 years, 29 days ago)

Quote:

ballsalsa said:
did i say there were no risks?  Its pretty simple,  be poor, and pay no(or little) income tax, or make money, and pay the taxes.  Whatever the risks, those are the options.  The only inspiration necessary is the inspiration to have more money than the next guy, a goal that seems almost universal among humans.  Not feeling inspired yet?  Fine, you can be one of what the WSJ calls "lucky duckies".  People so poor that they don't pay taxes, and can't generate debt because nobody will extend credit to them.




I not disagreeing with what you're saying, my main point of contention is a 75% rate of taxation. Of course tax rates and real rates are two different things entirely. 

BTW, no one in the US ever paid 90% of their income in Federal taxes, are you starting to see my point yet?  It goes back to the old Risk vs Reward equation.


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Offlineakira_akuma
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Re: Socialism fails again [Re: qman]
    #23973112 - 01/01/17 01:54 PM (7 years, 29 days ago)

Quote:

qman said:

With chaos comes order, I guess that's why we are all "here". :shrug:



and chaos doesn't stop, which frankly, is seemingly a misconception on your part, that you have. :shrug: entropy increases. it doesn't decrease with more or less order. :ripebanana:


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InvisibleballsalsaMDiscord
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Re: Socialism fails again [Re: qman]
    #23973122 - 01/01/17 01:58 PM (7 years, 29 days ago)

75% may be too much, and yes, i know the difference between marginal and effective tax rates.  The real solution isn't to hike income taxes so much as to match capital gains to income taxes.  There is absolutely no reason that gamblers should pay less tax on their earnings than productive members of the labor force.


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Offlinehostileuniverse
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Re: Socialism fails again [Re: akira_akuma]
    #23973125 - 01/01/17 01:59 PM (7 years, 29 days ago)

The lower class pays next or no taxes, the rich and middle class pay them all

The lower class hasn't paid taxes in generations, how's that working out?

The evidence is clear, or just keep pushing hopey changey BS :lol:


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Offlinehostileuniverse
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Re: Socialism fails again [Re: hostileuniverse]
    #23973132 - 01/01/17 02:00 PM (7 years, 29 days ago)

Quote:

There is absolutely no reason that gamblers should pay less tax on their earnings than productive members of the labor force.




:whathesaid:

Now let's look at what has caused that to happen, a progressive tax system

It doesn't work.


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Offlineqman
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Re: Socialism fails again [Re: ballsalsa] * 1
    #23973138 - 01/01/17 02:03 PM (7 years, 29 days ago)

Quote:

ballsalsa said:
75% may be too much, and yes, i know the difference between marginal and effective tax rates.  The real solution isn't to hike income taxes so much as to match capital gains to income taxes.  There is absolutely no reason that gamblers should pay less tax on their earnings than productive members of the labor force.




That's a fair debate for sure, considering that the ultra rich now have the bulk of the capital gains today.


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Offlineakira_akuma
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Re: Socialism fails again [Re: hostileuniverse]
    #23973141 - 01/01/17 02:03 PM (7 years, 29 days ago)

you seem to think that you can just take something that's keeping everyone lives from falling apart at a moments notice, deracinate it, and then plant something new that'll just make everything instantly better for everyone.

:shrug:

never have i suggested that the lower class shouldn't pay taxes...no one should pay exorbitant taxes over someone else. but the rich don't pay hardly any, and that is also an exorbitant tax burden on everyone else whom can't afford it, whereas the rich CAN. see how that works yet? i suggest making them pay their fair share...getting corporate money out of politics seems like a good idea...and then when things are fair game, you can employ a flat tax rate, to encourage businesses to grow, and spending...right now spending is encouraged through retarded means because people under this current system can't get their priorities straight...i have no faith in people doing any different under this new system...i can only hope the change will shock them into realizing what sacrifices they'll have to make for their current lifestyles in order to persist.

Quote:

Now let's look at what has caused that to happen, a progressive tax system

It doesn't work.




a tax system which was introduced because the flat tax "didn't work, either. :shrug: it's a matter of rolling with the punches. if you were in the days of the federally employed flat tax, you'd be boffing old Mary Jane Rottencrotch in the back of apartment with hardly nothing to your name but a maybe a phone.


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InvisibleZanthius
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Re: Socialism fails again [Re: qman] * 1
    #23973161 - 01/01/17 02:13 PM (7 years, 29 days ago)

Quote:

qman said:
Why would a person take huge risks in the capital markets only to pay out 75% of income in taxes?

Do you understand the risks that come from trying to make millions of dollars in a competitive market place?




So? If you take risks and fail, you earn less, but you also pay less taxes. In order for you to be obligated to pay 75% marginal tax you need to earn more than 5 million USD. That is a lot of money for most people.


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Offlinehostileuniverse
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Re: Socialism fails again [Re: Zanthius]
    #23973170 - 01/01/17 02:16 PM (7 years, 29 days ago)

Quote:

you seem to think that you can just take something that's keeping everyone lives from falling apart at a moments notice, deracinate it, and then plant something new that'll just make everything instantly better for everyone




Have you not been paying attention the last eight years? This is what the whole obama agenda has LITERALLY been about


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Offlineqman
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Re: Socialism fails again [Re: Zanthius]
    #23973184 - 01/01/17 02:22 PM (7 years, 29 days ago)

Quote:

Zanthius said:
Quote:

qman said:
Why would a person take huge risks in the capital markets only to pay out 75% of income in taxes?

Do you understand the risks that come from trying to make millions of dollars in a competitive market place?




So? If you take risks and fail, you earn less, but you also pay less taxes. In order for you to be obligated to pay 75% taxes you need to earn more than 5 million USD. That is a lot of money for most people.




That's a very simplistic view on the investing and business world, do you know what it's like to lose 6 figures when a investment goes bad?  I do.

Losing capital is more complicated than "you also pay less taxes". It could mean you lost money and no longer have any capital to start over, it can also mean you're cut off from capital, it can also mean you owe debts from the poor investment.

With that being said, entrepreneurship has been dying in the developed economies of the world, the capitalists are dominating capital and are not dealing with as many real world risks that a small business has to deal with, this is what happens when crony capitalism takes over the economy.


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InvisibleZanthius
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Re: Socialism fails again [Re: qman]
    #23973189 - 01/01/17 02:25 PM (7 years, 29 days ago)

Quote:

qman said:
Losing capital is more complicated than "you also pay less taxes". It could mean you lost money and no longer have any capital to start over, it can also mean you're cut off from capital, it can also mean you owe debts from the poor investment.




Okay, maybe investor, businessmen and entrepreneurs would take a little less risks, and play a bit more safe, but is that really such a bad thing? Wasn't too much risk-taking one of the causes of the 2008 financial crisis? Germany has a very good economy and infrastructure, and Germans are very good at playing safe. So maybe playing safe isn't necessarily so bad?


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Offlineakira_akuma
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Re: Socialism fails again [Re: qman]
    #23973193 - 01/01/17 02:27 PM (7 years, 29 days ago)

business is such a failure of human endeavor...as a field or practice.

but i can communicate with the internet...so that's cool.


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