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Rahz
Alive Again



Registered: 11/10/05
Posts: 9,230
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I don't think the reflex you suggest is as straight forward as you make it out to be. It's a concept some (many) people have internalized, but the universe is just a concept that exists in our mind. When looked at in this way it's seen that it's an aspect of the relationship with the self that is problematic.
Whether your life is fulfilling I haven't guessed and I'm glad that you find some enjoyment, but if there is a problem that you are pointing out then it's a problem and I'll take your word for it. If it doesn't bother you then that's great. Whether it's part of a cycle you will experience, or a level of acceptance you've achieved I don't know.
Our inability to rationalize the universe is not a simple problem because if the universe isn't rational then everything that occurs in it is also irrational. It is happening maybe because it just is and for no specific reason that we are able to be aware of. Whether that explanation is enough is a matter of whether a person is able to let go of their desire to understand things they can't, otherwise it will become an unfulfilled desire and cause pain but I suspect there are other issues at play. And I suspect this is true then or now, even though I can acknowledge times were once more simple in some ways. But even then, assuming humans had the capability to rationalize there's no reason to guess it didn't occur to them that the universe was irrational and that everything was irrational and nothing made sense. Whether this was an issue or not would depend on the individual but solidarity then just as in more modern times demands abnormalities be minimized, so the idea that modern living requires the sacrifice of the individual may not be such a new phenomena. And although the question of existence isn't simple I don't think it's the heart of the matter.
Regarding your final comment, a state of absolute freedom is probably just an idea, but our relationship in that regard is not static. If as in your case the void isn't an issue, perhaps that is good enough. But a desire to be one with the universe is deceptive and I think the truth of our desires are much closer to home. Neglect may cause a child to feel isolated and alone while another person may make it further in life before such things becomes an issue. This points to personal and interpersonal issues making up the bulk of our dilemma. If it were just that life didn't make sense that would be an easy thing to let go of, knowing that one loves and is being loved not by "the universe" but by real people, feeling primarily a sense of appreciation rather than desire. If it's just that life uses pain as well as pleasure to motivate, it would be an easy thing to deal with and laugh about in good company, not perfect but good enough. It makes sense to work on the things that are approachable rather than consider the primary problem of modern life to be one without a solution. Perhaps we can agree that there is no ultimate solution that will result in perfection, and that it is not necessary for life to be worthwhile and meaningful.
-------------------- rahz comfort pleasure power love truth awareness peace "You’re not looking close enough if you can only see yourself in people who look like you." —Ayishat Akanbi
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Ferdinando


Registered: 11/15/09
Posts: 3,664
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Re: Filling the Void [Re: Rahz]
#23995291 - 01/09/17 01:40 PM (7 years, 21 days ago) |
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I'm not encouraging you to smoke weed, but if we are useful, have been useful so that we deserve(?) weed, an occasional weed smoke is good
-------------------- with our love with our love we could save the world
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blingbling
what you chicken stew?

Registered: 09/04/10
Posts: 2,987
Last seen: 3 years, 2 months
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Re: Filling the Void [Re: Rahz]
#23995575 - 01/09/17 03:45 PM (7 years, 21 days ago) |
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I think we disagree about what people need as a spiritual foundation and what arises from the presence of lack of such a spiritual fundation, but everything else you've said I think we agree on.
The thing about this whole "spiritual connection to the universe" stuff is that these days such things seem very 'woo-woo' kinda divorced from reality and often attributed to individual inclinations. But this conception of the devine is very new. For most of human history we had a very different perspective, and in the transition from secure communal systems of redemption to our modern conception where everything is up to the individual, something important was lost that we will not get back. This might not be a bad thing in the long run, but we should still face up to it as a genuine portion of reality.
-------------------- Kupo said: let's fuel the robots with psilocybin. cez said: everyone should smoke dmt for religion. dustinthewind13 said: euthanasia and prostitution should be legal and located in the same building. White Beard said: if you see the buddha on the road, rape him, then kill him. then rape him again.
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Ferdinando


Registered: 11/15/09
Posts: 3,664
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I'm not sure it's lost forever, meditation and maybe programming can maybe fit any shape?
-------------------- with our love with our love we could save the world
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LunarEclipse
Enlil's Official Story


Registered: 10/31/04
Posts: 21,407
Loc: Building 7
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Quote:
Ferdinando said: I'm not sure it's lost forever, meditation and maybe programming can maybe fit any shape?
Prime example of the useless bullshit on here. Maybe I can trip my ass off and I can mold it into some kind of shape? If I meditate 40 minutes a day, I can be somebody? Maybe even a mod? Fuck me.
-------------------- Anxiety is what you make it.
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pineninja
Dream Weaver



Registered: 08/17/14
Posts: 12,468
Loc: South
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Quote:
LunarEclipse said:
Quote:
Ferdinando said: I'm not sure it's lost forever, meditation and maybe programming can maybe fit any shape?
Prime example of the useless bullshit on here. Maybe I can trip my ass off and I can mold it into some kind of shape? If I meditate 40 minutes a day, I can be somebody? Maybe even a mod? Fuck me.
"Prime example of the useless bullshit on here." Way to rise above it and value add.
-------------------- Just a fool on the hill.
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Ferdinando


Registered: 11/15/09
Posts: 3,664
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I would like to say in worst case scenario except death growth fill the void
-------------------- with our love with our love we could save the world
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Rahz
Alive Again



Registered: 11/10/05
Posts: 9,230
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Quote:
Ferdinando said: I would like to say in worst case scenario except death growth fill the void
Seems the main issue we've been debating is whether the issue is specific or general. In regards to death anxiety that could be a specific issue and one everyone gets to deal with. I've heard more than one old person express the sentiment "I'm ready to die but not in a hurry."
Death will always be an issue for someone who has a will to live, but not necessarily problematic as an unsolvable existential issue. All emotional issues are worst case scenarios just before they're resolved.
As far as whether I should smoke some weed, I agree it can be good medicine. I have my issues but as a matter of debate playing devil's advocate for the sake of the topic can be helpful in furthering the discussion. Unlike alcohol marijuana seems more likely to put the problem front and center prior to providing relief and could provide some food for though, but like alcohol it's not a magic pill. Always smoking weed for relief, or looking at emotional issues in a too general sense probably aren't going to provide resolution.
-------------------- rahz comfort pleasure power love truth awareness peace "You’re not looking close enough if you can only see yourself in people who look like you." —Ayishat Akanbi
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Kickle
Wanderer


Registered: 12/16/06
Posts: 17,856
Last seen: 1 hour, 13 minutes
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Quote:
blingbling said:
Quote:
redgreenvines said:
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meditation is the "new" denial of death
- no way jose.
immersing in the moment is the antithesis of running away, the opposite of denial.
if it starts to become death denial, then you are witnessing an internal dialog, just take note and continue the practice.
(hold off writing that book for a few years)
Through immersion in the present moment we forget the past, stop worrying about the future and for many see through to the illusory nature of the self, correct?
In order to know death we must have a sense of the unique properties of our individual self and must have knowledge of that self existing in time, and time of course will eat us alive.
Meditation denies, destroys, mystifies, whatever you want to call it; the self existing in time hence it can act as a denial of finitude.
There is also the issue of nirvana or enlightenment which for many is really just oriental heaven.
Great points IMO 
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blingbling
what you chicken stew?

Registered: 09/04/10
Posts: 2,987
Last seen: 3 years, 2 months
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Re: Filling the Void [Re: Kickle]
#24005267 - 01/12/17 07:19 PM (7 years, 18 days ago) |
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Thanks
-------------------- Kupo said: let's fuel the robots with psilocybin. cez said: everyone should smoke dmt for religion. dustinthewind13 said: euthanasia and prostitution should be legal and located in the same building. White Beard said: if you see the buddha on the road, rape him, then kill him. then rape him again.
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RJ Tubs 202


Registered: 09/20/08
Posts: 6,016
Loc: USA
Last seen: 13 hours, 27 minutes
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Re: Filling the Void [Re: Memories]
#24005318 - 01/12/17 07:33 PM (7 years, 18 days ago) |
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Quote:
Memories said:
How many of you relate to feeling a sort of ever present void inside of you, typically stemming from a general dissatisfaction with life...
We often feel empty and unfulfilled because we confuse pleasure with happiness.
And we believe that getting what we want will bring us happiness.
Of course it never does . . .
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redgreenvines
irregular verb


Registered: 04/08/04
Posts: 37,539
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but not true. My memory is fine during meditation, nothing is suppressed: the memory arises, and passes. it leaves an awareness of it's wake. I do not need to keep rethinking it - it is not forgotten or lost, but it need not re-circulate 5, 10 or a 100 times unless I am intentionally trying to memorize it. meditation is about watching - not adding, and not taking away.
I guess people have other meditations or are just making it up
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Rahz
Alive Again



Registered: 11/10/05
Posts: 9,230
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Other people have emotional issues that can't be resolved by simply meditating. Meditating is about watching so I think you should find Tubs point agreeable. If a person has issues and tries to use meditation to be happy they will fail. Meditation will bring issues to the surface and make someone less happy if happiness is the primary goal. If the goal is to relax the mind of extraneous thoughts and see what is still there they will be successful, but resolving those issues is not something meditation can do unless it's already on the tip of their tongue.
-------------------- rahz comfort pleasure power love truth awareness peace "You’re not looking close enough if you can only see yourself in people who look like you." —Ayishat Akanbi
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redgreenvines
irregular verb


Registered: 04/08/04
Posts: 37,539
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Re: Filling the Void [Re: Rahz]
#24007228 - 01/13/17 01:54 PM (7 years, 17 days ago) |
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in any case, it fills a gap (void) in one's schedule nicely without any particular drawbacks - way better than any obsessive activity. Better in the sense that as a practice, you are intensifying your mental ability to be still, rather than intensifying worrying. (all time spent practicing intensifies or 'perfects' what you practice)
some of the topics that look like questions but really are unsolvable paradoxes can really get you worrying, questioning your self-worth, self-esteem, etc. like: "what is my place in the universe?" and "what is the purpose of life?"
At least the first may lead to relativism and perspective if treated gently, but the second ask is only an opening for dogma and politics (as in dogmatic religions).
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LunarEclipse
Enlil's Official Story


Registered: 10/31/04
Posts: 21,407
Loc: Building 7
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Or, as Bill Cosby once said, Why Is There Air?
(hint: he used to be funny, like LL and other creeps and his ilk)
-------------------- Anxiety is what you make it.
Edited by LunarEclipse (01/13/17 03:33 PM)
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Kickle
Wanderer


Registered: 12/16/06
Posts: 17,856
Last seen: 1 hour, 13 minutes
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Quote:
redgreenvines said:
I guess people have other meditations or are just making it up
both IMO
-------------------- Why shouldn't the truth be stranger than fiction? Fiction, after all, has to make sense. -- Mark Twain
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RJ Tubs 202


Registered: 09/20/08
Posts: 6,016
Loc: USA
Last seen: 13 hours, 27 minutes
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My post was a reply to OP regarding "feeling a sort of ever present void"
But, on the subject of meditation . . .
Meditation is useful to learn the connection between our thoughts and our emotions. Thoughts create and fuel our disturbing feelings. To observe how we react to these thoughts is helpful in reducing or eliminating the confusion surrounding them.
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blingbling
what you chicken stew?

Registered: 09/04/10
Posts: 2,987
Last seen: 3 years, 2 months
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Quote:
redgreenvines said: in any case, it fills a gap (void) in one's schedule nicely without any particular drawbacks - way better than any obsessive activity. Better in the sense that as a practice, you are intensifying your mental ability to be still, rather than intensifying worrying. (all time spent practicing intensifies or 'perfects' what you practice)
some of the topics that look like questions but really are unsolvable paradoxes can really get you worrying, questioning your self-worth, self-esteem, etc. like: "what is my place in the universe?" and "what is the purpose of life?"
At least the first may lead to relativism and perspective if treated gently, but the second ask is only an opening for dogma and politics (as in dogmatic religions).
I think it depends on how you come at these questions. Personally I use them as exploratory tools for making sense of other peoples beliefs.
And besides, these questions will naw away at you whether you like it or not. Your probably better off having some kind of direct contact with them, but yeah, I can see how that could become pathological.
-------------------- Kupo said: let's fuel the robots with psilocybin. cez said: everyone should smoke dmt for religion. dustinthewind13 said: euthanasia and prostitution should be legal and located in the same building. White Beard said: if you see the buddha on the road, rape him, then kill him. then rape him again.
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Rahz
Alive Again



Registered: 11/10/05
Posts: 9,230
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I've played around with oneness but it never stuck. It's desirability is like wanting a pair of Nikes because all the cool kids have them. Wanting to be one with the universe is just another desire as far as I can tell, and one which requires delusion to satisfy. What makes you any different than a Christian telling me I need to accept Jesus, or a Muslim telling me I need to submit to Allah?
-------------------- rahz comfort pleasure power love truth awareness peace "You’re not looking close enough if you can only see yourself in people who look like you." —Ayishat Akanbi
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redgreenvines
irregular verb


Registered: 04/08/04
Posts: 37,539
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Re: Filling the Void [Re: Rahz]
#24009356 - 01/14/17 10:04 AM (7 years, 16 days ago) |
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yeah, spiritual materialism, and spiritual marketing.
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