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Unfolding Nature Shop: Unfolding Nature: Being in the Implicate Order

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InvisibleCrazy_Horse
I’m Rick James, bitch!
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Registered: 08/15/16
Posts: 13,284
Loc: Hampsterdam
Re: Filling the Void [Re: Duncan Rowhl]
    #23984094 - 01/05/17 02:36 PM (7 years, 25 days ago)

Quote:

Duncan Rowhl said:
'Death' to many means the start of something profoundly and positively metaphysical and so any deeply invested interests will be readily and widely shared.







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OfflineDuncan Rowhl
Fiducia Christum
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Registered: 10/08/12
Posts: 2,659
Loc: UK Flag
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Re: Filling the Void [Re: Crazy_Horse]
    #23984188 - 01/05/17 03:20 PM (7 years, 25 days ago)

^ Superb!

I've just got back into jazz and blues guitar this week .:smile:


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Offlinebeforethedawn
Registered: 06/19/16
Posts: 1,859
Last seen: 4 years, 5 months
Re: Filling the Void [Re: Tmethyl]
    #23984910 - 01/05/17 07:17 PM (7 years, 25 days ago)

Quote:

Tmethyl said:
The world is objects arising and falling in awareness.
The awareness is not affected by the world, not affected by thoughts, not affected by suffering.
Body and mind also arise as objects in awareness.
The 'void' is also an object arising in awareness.
It's not very spiritual or mystical, it is your experience right now.
The most plain and obvious.
You are only awareness, just like a movie is only screen.
A modulation of imagery upon the blank colorless space of the screen.
Awareness is just like that, empty and colorless.
So empty and so colorless and so silent that all the world can play upon it.

:heart:

The only way out, is in.



:thumbup:


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Hostile humankind
Can't you see you're fucking blind?


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Offlineblingbling
what you chicken stew?

Registered: 09/04/10
Posts: 2,987
Last seen: 3 years, 2 months
Re: Filling the Void [Re: Rahz]
    #23985040 - 01/05/17 08:10 PM (7 years, 25 days ago)

Quote:

Rahz said:
>>>>in that painful void, they find LACK of what they desire.

It's not that it's not there but that being unable to identify it, it's unknown and appears as darkness and emptiness.

But there is no such thing as an actual void. If there was we would be unable to be aware of it since we cannot perceive something that does not exist. Better to assume it is something and get to work finding out what it is.




I disagree. We know black holes exist because we can see stuff moving around them. Similarly, we can know that a void exists in the modern heart by its effects, increasing mental illness and anxiety, rampant consumerism, new ideologies and religions designed to fill this void etc.

I guess that you could say that the absence of something is in fact a positive assertion, that nothingness perceived by a conscious entity is something, but these are just semantic games. The real meat is in the psycho-historically grounded manifestations of the void.


--------------------
Kupo said:
let's fuel the robots with psilocybin.

cez said:
everyone should smoke dmt for religion.

dustinthewind13 said:
euthanasia and prostitution should be legal and located in the same building.

White Beard said:
if you see the buddha on the road, rape him, then kill him. then rape him again.


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InvisibleRahz
Alive Again
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Registered: 11/10/05
Posts: 9,230
Re: Filling the Void [Re: blingbling]
    #23986450 - 01/06/17 12:41 PM (7 years, 24 days ago)

Quote:

blingbling said:
Quote:

Rahz said:
>>>>in that painful void, they find LACK of what they desire.

It's not that it's not there but that being unable to identify it, it's unknown and appears as darkness and emptiness.

But there is no such thing as an actual void. If there was we would be unable to be aware of it since we cannot perceive something that does not exist. Better to assume it is something and get to work finding out what it is.




I disagree. We know black holes exist because we can see stuff moving around them. Similarly, we can know that a void exists in the modern heart by its effects, increasing mental illness and anxiety, rampant consumerism, new ideologies and religions designed to fill this void etc.

I guess that you could say that the absence of something is in fact a positive assertion, that nothingness perceived by a conscious entity is something, but these are just semantic games. The real meat is in the psycho-historically grounded manifestations of the void.





I guess I'm just describing my experience. Perhaps semantics but the void is actually a fullness of emotion being held back and is generally painful. I agree with you characterizing it through psychological history. Dealing with such issues can be more painful all at once than not dealing with them and that gives rise to the idea of the void perhaps being a place of lesser pain, so I just mean to say that as opposed to seeing the void as sign that life has no worth and there's no point in trying that it's more of an illusion that can be navigated rather than believed.


--------------------
rahz

comfort pleasure power love truth awareness peace


"You’re not looking close enough if you can only see yourself in people who look like you." —Ayishat Akanbi


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Offlineblingbling
what you chicken stew?

Registered: 09/04/10
Posts: 2,987
Last seen: 3 years, 2 months
Re: Filling the Void [Re: Rahz]
    #23986800 - 01/06/17 03:14 PM (7 years, 24 days ago)

I think the diagnosis of a void in the modern heart acts like a medical diagnosis in the sense that it allows us to conseptualize a problem, but does nothing to treat said problem.


--------------------
Kupo said:
let's fuel the robots with psilocybin.

cez said:
everyone should smoke dmt for religion.

dustinthewind13 said:
euthanasia and prostitution should be legal and located in the same building.

White Beard said:
if you see the buddha on the road, rape him, then kill him. then rape him again.


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InvisibleRahz
Alive Again
Male


Registered: 11/10/05
Posts: 9,230
Re: Filling the Void [Re: blingbling]
    #23986995 - 01/06/17 04:23 PM (7 years, 24 days ago)

Bad diagnosis then.


--------------------
rahz

comfort pleasure power love truth awareness peace


"You’re not looking close enough if you can only see yourself in people who look like you." —Ayishat Akanbi


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Invisibleredgreenvines
irregular verb
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Registered: 04/08/04
Posts: 37,539
Re: Filling the Void [Re: Rahz]
    #23987043 - 01/06/17 04:41 PM (7 years, 24 days ago)

it's traditional


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:confused: _ :brainfart:🧠  _ :finger:


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Offlineblingbling
what you chicken stew?

Registered: 09/04/10
Posts: 2,987
Last seen: 3 years, 2 months
Re: Filling the Void [Re: Rahz]
    #23987665 - 01/06/17 08:18 PM (7 years, 24 days ago)

Quote:

Rahz said:
Bad diagnosis then.




Doesn't necessarily mean its a bad diagnosis, it just means there are no effective treatments. Some kinds of cancers are like that :shrug:


--------------------
Kupo said:
let's fuel the robots with psilocybin.

cez said:
everyone should smoke dmt for religion.

dustinthewind13 said:
euthanasia and prostitution should be legal and located in the same building.

White Beard said:
if you see the buddha on the road, rape him, then kill him. then rape him again.


Extras: Filter Print Post Top
Invisibleredgreenvines
irregular verb
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Registered: 04/08/04
Posts: 37,539
Re: Filling the Void [Re: blingbling]
    #23988622 - 01/07/17 06:21 AM (7 years, 23 days ago)

often a suitable treatment is rejected for poetic reasons


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:confused: _ :brainfart:🧠  _ :finger:


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InvisibleRahz
Alive Again
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Registered: 11/10/05
Posts: 9,230
Re: Filling the Void [Re: blingbling]
    #23988713 - 01/07/17 07:50 AM (7 years, 23 days ago)

Quote:

blingbling said:
Doesn't necessarily mean its a bad diagnosis, it just means there are no effective treatments. Some kinds of cancers are like that :shrug:




I think some people have genetics that are inclined to make their life more difficult than others. Thoughts of traits being unsuited for the modern age occur, but it's just a perspective. While such differences can cause value judgement it's probably best to work with what one has. The challenge is always there regardless of whether happiness occurs and paths to resolution are not always straight. I'm not suggesting Memories shouldn't feel (think actually) there is a void, only that my disagreement may be useful if not now perhaps later.


--------------------
rahz

comfort pleasure power love truth awareness peace


"You’re not looking close enough if you can only see yourself in people who look like you." —Ayishat Akanbi


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Offlineblingbling
what you chicken stew?

Registered: 09/04/10
Posts: 2,987
Last seen: 3 years, 2 months
Re: Filling the Void [Re: Rahz]
    #23989607 - 01/07/17 01:45 PM (7 years, 23 days ago)

Quote:

Rahz said:
Quote:

blingbling said:
Doesn't necessarily mean its a bad diagnosis, it just means there are no effective treatments. Some kinds of cancers are like that :shrug:




I think some people have genetics that are inclined to make their life more difficult than others. Thoughts of traits being unsuited for the modern age occur, but it's just a perspective. While such differences can cause value judgement it's probably best to work with what one has. The challenge is always there regardless of whether happiness occurs and paths to resolution are not always straight. I'm not suggesting Memories shouldn't feel (think actually) there is a void, only that my disagreement may be useful if not now perhaps later.




Are you saying that multiple perspectives are needed rather than just lumping every problem into "the void"? If so, I agree with that.


--------------------
Kupo said:
let's fuel the robots with psilocybin.

cez said:
everyone should smoke dmt for religion.

dustinthewind13 said:
euthanasia and prostitution should be legal and located in the same building.

White Beard said:
if you see the buddha on the road, rape him, then kill him. then rape him again.


Extras: Filter Print Post Top
Offlineblingbling
what you chicken stew?

Registered: 09/04/10
Posts: 2,987
Last seen: 3 years, 2 months
Re: Filling the Void [Re: redgreenvines]
    #23989613 - 01/07/17 01:49 PM (7 years, 23 days ago)

Quote:

redgreenvines said:
often a suitable treatment is rejected for poetic reasons




I think you are a little hurt or frustrated because I do not give credence to your preferred method of treatment, namely meditation. If it works for you, do it. I just think the modern zeal for meditative practices needs to be tempered by alternative perspectives.


--------------------
Kupo said:
let's fuel the robots with psilocybin.

cez said:
everyone should smoke dmt for religion.

dustinthewind13 said:
euthanasia and prostitution should be legal and located in the same building.

White Beard said:
if you see the buddha on the road, rape him, then kill him. then rape him again.


Extras: Filter Print Post Top
Invisibleredgreenvines
irregular verb
 User Gallery

Registered: 04/08/04
Posts: 37,539
Re: Filling the Void [Re: blingbling]
    #23989779 - 01/07/17 03:02 PM (7 years, 23 days ago)

Quote:

blingbling said:
Quote:

redgreenvines said:
often a suitable treatment is rejected for poetic reasons




I think you are a little hurt or frustrated because I do not give credence to your preferred method of treatment, namely meditation. If it works for you, do it. I just think the modern zeal for meditative practices needs to be tempered by alternative perspectives.



so off the mark


--------------------
:confused: _ :brainfart:🧠  _ :finger:


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InvisibleRahz
Alive Again
Male


Registered: 11/10/05
Posts: 9,230
Re: Filling the Void [Re: blingbling]
    #23989827 - 01/07/17 03:20 PM (7 years, 23 days ago)

Quote:

blingbling said:
Quote:

Rahz said:
Quote:

blingbling said:
Doesn't necessarily mean its a bad diagnosis, it just means there are no effective treatments. Some kinds of cancers are like that :shrug:




I think some people have genetics that are inclined to make their life more difficult than others. Thoughts of traits being unsuited for the modern age occur, but it's just a perspective. While such differences can cause value judgment it's probably best to work with what one has. The challenge is always there regardless of whether happiness occurs and paths to resolution are not always straight. I'm not suggesting Memories shouldn't feel (think actually) there is a void, only that my disagreement may be useful if not now perhaps later.




Are you saying that multiple perspectives are needed rather than just lumping every problem into "the void"? If so, I agree with that.




Yes. A good perspective is probably based off more than one point of view. In psychological terms perhaps such feelings are best viewed as places to hibernate rather than the logical end. Life is not logical but genetic expression does have purpose. It's just hard to get at, often being intentionally deceptive. The void could be seen as a place to give up and die metaphorically speaking. If one doesn't die they can't be reincarnated. It is cyclic but each turn comes with more experience. In another recent thread I mentioned acceptance and in this case it would be good to accept things as they are, but not assume it as ultimate truth. This is the point I'm trying to get at. Such notions are not logical truths, but strategies which we often don't understand.


--------------------
rahz

comfort pleasure power love truth awareness peace


"You’re not looking close enough if you can only see yourself in people who look like you." —Ayishat Akanbi


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Offlineblingbling
what you chicken stew?

Registered: 09/04/10
Posts: 2,987
Last seen: 3 years, 2 months
Re: Filling the Void [Re: Rahz]
    #23990112 - 01/07/17 04:53 PM (7 years, 23 days ago)

Couldn't we accept the fact that life is full of unresolvable dilemmas and that the void inside the modern heart is one of these?


--------------------
Kupo said:
let's fuel the robots with psilocybin.

cez said:
everyone should smoke dmt for religion.

dustinthewind13 said:
euthanasia and prostitution should be legal and located in the same building.

White Beard said:
if you see the buddha on the road, rape him, then kill him. then rape him again.


Extras: Filter Print Post Top
Offlineblingbling
what you chicken stew?

Registered: 09/04/10
Posts: 2,987
Last seen: 3 years, 2 months
Re: Filling the Void [Re: redgreenvines]
    #23990117 - 01/07/17 04:55 PM (7 years, 23 days ago)

Quote:

redgreenvines said:
Quote:

blingbling said:
Quote:

redgreenvines said:
often a suitable treatment is rejected for poetic reasons




I think you are a little hurt or frustrated because I do not give credence to your preferred method of treatment, namely meditation. If it works for you, do it. I just think the modern zeal for meditative practices needs to be tempered by alternative perspectives.



so off the mark




Well it's either that or your just being fasicious which is both annoying and boring.


--------------------
Kupo said:
let's fuel the robots with psilocybin.

cez said:
everyone should smoke dmt for religion.

dustinthewind13 said:
euthanasia and prostitution should be legal and located in the same building.

White Beard said:
if you see the buddha on the road, rape him, then kill him. then rape him again.


Extras: Filter Print Post Top
Invisibleredgreenvines
irregular verb
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Registered: 04/08/04
Posts: 37,539
Re: Filling the Void [Re: blingbling] * 1
    #23990225 - 01/07/17 05:22 PM (7 years, 23 days ago)

what you are ignoring is that people fall in love with thoughts, and that love is poetry.


--------------------
:confused: _ :brainfart:🧠  _ :finger:


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InvisibleRahz
Alive Again
Male


Registered: 11/10/05
Posts: 9,230
Re: Filling the Void [Re: blingbling]
    #23990605 - 01/07/17 07:30 PM (7 years, 23 days ago)

Quote:

blingbling said:
Couldn't we accept the fact that life is full of unresolvable dilemmas and that the void inside the modern heart is one of these?




I think people do well to accept things as they are. To view one's personal situation through the hypothetical notion that it will never change is presumptuous. Natural perhaps, but I don't think it's necessarily true and is part of the deceptive nature of our feelings.

What's not seen and not predictable is how the next cycle will evolve and differentiate itself.

That said, I think it's likely that certain genetic aspects of personality aren't generally changeable and such things become apparent through many cycles. Still, I don't think nature has set us up for eternal torment or heaven, it's just doing what works in the moment. With enough time and experience some individuals do manage to change the quality of their existential musings and to some extent cast off the slavery of their lymbic system, or find a way to live within the dictates of it that doesn't conjure an ever present void.

Also, I don't know what you mean by modern heart. It's an old heart in a modern world. We imagine a time when religion was more meaningful, but plenty of people find it meaningful today. I suspect plenty of people found it ludicrous in times of yore and deal with the same existential concepts we talk about here. The difference is for the most part they kept their mouths shut in fear for their lives. I see the foundations of Buddhism as an addressing of the existential dilemma and even the commonalities that gave rise to Hinduism if viewed through the lens of life experiences rather than physical lives can be seen as addressing existentialism rather than a romantic belief set. If we go back far enough to a more animist period I suspect the idea of everyone sharing the same vision of a world alive is romantic, though constant worry and effort for fear of ones physical survival probably does have the effect of putting ones melancholy on the back burner. Which brings us back to the idea that life has become too easy. The idea of a modern heart is romantic, a pat on the back for apathy. Go out and get it broken until something new happens, and if it doesn't, at least one can die feeling they were right.


--------------------
rahz

comfort pleasure power love truth awareness peace


"You’re not looking close enough if you can only see yourself in people who look like you." —Ayishat Akanbi


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Offlineblingbling
what you chicken stew?

Registered: 09/04/10
Posts: 2,987
Last seen: 3 years, 2 months
Re: Filling the Void [Re: redgreenvines]
    #23990611 - 01/07/17 07:33 PM (7 years, 23 days ago)

Quote:

redgreenvines said:
what you are ignoring is that people fall in love with thoughts, and that love is poetry.




I'm not following... Could you please explain how this is relevant.


--------------------
Kupo said:
let's fuel the robots with psilocybin.

cez said:
everyone should smoke dmt for religion.

dustinthewind13 said:
euthanasia and prostitution should be legal and located in the same building.

White Beard said:
if you see the buddha on the road, rape him, then kill him. then rape him again.


Extras: Filter Print Post Top
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Unfolding Nature Shop: Unfolding Nature: Being in the Implicate Order


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