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OfflineMemories
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Registered: 05/09/12
Posts: 10,484
Loc: Suwannee River
Last seen: 3 years, 9 months
Re: Filling the Void [Re: deff] * 1
    #23969331 - 12/30/16 09:35 PM (7 years, 1 month ago)

Quote:

deff said:
maybe the reason you see a void within you is more to do with how you're looking than with what's there - we have different instruments to examine life and our being with. the rational mind has a productive range of uses, but is also terrible at other endeavours, such as this one. in my experience, rather than looking for a conceptual model as an answer, it is more fruitful to feel into a feeling of who we are - and what I tend to discover is at the core there is (of course not totally describable with words) a kind of loving presence.

but when we stay in the mind, the mind is blind to this and will convince us there is nothing - and so it takes diving into the heart, into feeling-consciousness, to connect with this. and what also can help is exercising self-love to ourselves, which seems to relax and allow the heart to open more, and we can realize we are love and we are what we seek :heart:




You make great points.

It even fits with my views on reality quite well. If everything is just the proceedings of particles interacting with each other, and there is no objective hierarchy for said interactions of particles, why should i constantly place my logic on such a pedestal?

There is no reason why i should prioritize areas of thinking and feeling above others when the result is increased feelings of Angst and Ennui.

Subjectively, giving precedence to feelings that allow me to feel a part of something and less of a shell are more worthy of exploration if my goal is increased peace and contentment.


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Invisibleredgreenvines
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Registered: 04/08/04
Posts: 37,539
Re: Filling the Void [Re: Memories]
    #23969933 - 12/31/16 05:09 AM (7 years, 30 days ago)

what do you mean by "feelings"?
is this to include body sensations as well as pleasurable, painful, and neutral feelings, or is it about pain and pleasure only and not the endless sensorium?


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:confused: _ :brainfart:đź§   _ :finger:


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Offlinezzripz
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Registered: 12/23/08
Posts: 8,292
Loc: Manchester, UK
Last seen: 4 years, 7 months
Re: Filling the Void [Re: Memories]
    #23969946 - 12/31/16 05:27 AM (7 years, 30 days ago)

we have all been abused since being little. Many people do not even 'know', and won't accept this. A reason for that is that there is a suppression of the KNOWLEDGE of it.

A good example is what happened to the original inhabitants of Turtle island (Native Americans). Insane invaders, already themselves abused and dehumanized, came into their lands, and then take AWAY/force away their languages (which are deeply connected with the land), and their land and customs and names, take their children away and force them into the schools (like we were, and most of the children are), and then what we we see happen as a result? Acoholism, drug addiction, obesity, total loss, void, meaninglessness,despair. the generations that come and grow up in this are made to forget the original causes OF it. And then comes the 'experts' telling them they are 'mentally ill' when they manfest psychological disturbance and/or spontaneous visions etc--behaviours deemed not acceptable by the occupying oppressive force WHICH IS STILL HERE!

Looking at what happened/is happening to Indigenous peoples gives us a BIG clue about our OWN sense and states of meaninglessness, crime, addictions, 'mental illness' etc, and the research into this is a big part of the healing OF it, because you are becoming aware of the void:
Quote:

How the US Mental Health System Makes Natives Sick and Suicidal

'The intrusion of a new language upon a people can build bridges, tear them down, or serve an oppressive agenda. It can do all three at once. In the last 40 years, certain English words and phrases have become more acceptable to indigenous scholars, thought leaders, and elders for describing shared Native experiences. They include genocide, cultural destruction, colonization, forced assimilation, loss of language, boarding school, termination, historical trauma and more general terms, such as racism, poverty, life expectancy, and educational barriers. There are many more.

One might expect such words to be common within the mental health system in Indian Country. Yet the major funder and provider of Native mental health, the Indian Health Service (IHS), doesn’t seem to speak this language.

For example, the agency’s behavioral health manual mentions psychiatrist and psychiatric 23 times, therapy 18 times, pharmacotherapy, medication, drugs, and prescription 16 times, and the word treatment, a whopping 89 times. But it only uses the word violence once, and you won’t find a single mention of genocide, cultural destruction, colonization, historical trauma, etc.—nor even racism, poverty, life expectancy or educational barriers.

Since those days, affixing the depression label to Native experience has become big business. IHS depends a great deal upon this activity—follow-up “medication management” encounters allow the agency to pull considerable extra revenue from Medicaid. One part of the federal government supplements funding for the other. That’s one reason it might be in the best interest of IHS to diagnose and treat depression, rather than acknowledge the emotional and behavioral difficulties resulting from chronic, intergenerational oppression.

...What’s truly remarkable is that this is not the first time the mental health movement in Indian Country has helped to destroy Native people. Today’s making of a Mentally Ill Indian to “treat” is just a variation on an old idea, a fitting example of George Santayana’s overused adage: “Those who cannot remember the past are condemned to repeat it.” The Native mental health system has been a tool of cultural genocide for over 175 years—seven generations. Long before there was this Mentally Ill Indian to treat, this movement was busy creating and perpetuating the Crazy Indian, the Dumb Indian, and the Drunken Indian.

We need to expose what has been made invisible and forgotten. We need to revisit the displaced and poverty-stricken ancestors subjected to Indian Lunacy Determinations and sent away from their homes and families. We need to learn more about the Hiawatha Asylum for Insane Indians, where people were kept shackled until the cuffs of their chains meshed with their skin.




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InvisibleLunarEclipse
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Registered: 10/31/04
Posts: 21,407
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Re: Filling the Void [Re: Duncan Rowhl]
    #23969962 - 12/31/16 05:41 AM (7 years, 30 days ago)

Quote:

Duncan Rowhl said:
The void is unconscious yearning for the source - for 'God'.

We dont feel complete as beings because we are part of a split.

The spirit is out on its work experience, refining itself out in the challenges of the great jungle to be better upon its return,

The best thing we can do is try to and get as close to to the source as possible.

This is achievement by moral living, liking, then loving the self and others and the mind loses its boundaries.

Show sinners their TV dinners and urge them to try caviar. :thumbup:




TV Dinners fill the void.



--------------------
Anxiety is what you make it.


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InvisibleSatya


Registered: 11/11/15
Posts: 175
Re: Filling the Void [Re: Memories]
    #23970022 - 12/31/16 06:29 AM (7 years, 30 days ago)

I find that attachments can influence how one experiences this emptiness.

We often come from the view that temporary things were somehow going to be fulfilling and satisfying, so seeing things are empty and dissatisfying can be difficult to face at first. If our attitude is to resist impermanence and remain attached to things that come and go, it can bring suffering. If embraced as a fundamental truth of all things, it can be liberating... as how can temporary things ever bring lasting peace?

Seeing that things are unsatisfactory as they don't last can actually help to appreciate things while they do last, as there's no longer this grasping trying to derive happiness from them. It allows some space to see that happiness doesn't necessarily come from things themselves - it's what we imbue them with, our attitude and desires towards things.


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Invisibleredgreenvines
irregular verb
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Registered: 04/08/04
Posts: 37,539
Re: Filling the Void [Re: Satya]
    #23970151 - 12/31/16 08:24 AM (7 years, 30 days ago)

Quote:

What Satya said, substituting and eliminating a few words:
I find that mental associations influence how one experiences this emptiness.

We often come from the view that temporary things were somehow going to be fulfilling and satisfying, so seeing things are empty and dissatisfying can be difficult to face at first. If our attitude is inflexible, it can bring suffering. If change is embraced as a fundamental truth of all things, it can be liberating...

Seeing that things are unsatisfactory as they don't fulfill needs can actually help to appreciate things as they are. It allows some space to see that happiness doesn't necessarily come from things themselves - it's what we imbue them with, our attitude towards things.




this now hangs together for me and the meaning is simpler, less black and white, more honest.


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:confused: _ :brainfart:đź§   _ :finger:


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Offlineblingbling
what you chicken stew?

Registered: 09/04/10
Posts: 2,987
Last seen: 3 years, 2 months
Re: Filling the Void [Re: Memories]
    #23974318 - 01/01/17 09:48 PM (7 years, 29 days ago)

Quote:

Memories said:
It's been a while since I've posted here. Hope some familiar faces will be able to chime in.

How many of you relate to feeling a sort of ever present void inside of you, typically stemming from a general dissatisfaction with life and the lack of any sort of concrete meaning or purpose on how, or even why, one should continue living?

I was sober for over a year, and i was able to find some relatively effective distractions in the forms of art, exercise, and meaningful social interaction, but even with these tools, there always seems to be that emptiness inside of me.

Lately i feel like i've been coming back to the idea of death anxiety being the primary human motivator, and the diverse actions we engage in primarily serving the purpose of distracting us from the ultimate fate we will all share.




I've been toying with the idea of writing a self help book for people like you. The working title is "This Is Not A Self Help Book: Why Life Is Unfulfilling And Why Its Not Your Fault"

The essential thrust of the book would be that over the last 500 years or so life has become increasingly easier materially due to the advance of science and rationality which ironically has resulted in the dissipation of communal systems of redemption designed to shelter us from the pain of death anxiety.

life used to be much harder, but this did not really worry people because this life was just a precursor to eternal happiness and the entire community of the faithful were redeemed because of this. Modern life although materially, morally and in terms of health is much better off, but we are in a spiritual decline and the malaise you feel is a result of this.

So, the main thing you should take away from this post is its not your fault, your just a victim of history like the rest of us.


--------------------
Kupo said:
let's fuel the robots with psilocybin.

cez said:
everyone should smoke dmt for religion.

dustinthewind13 said:
euthanasia and prostitution should be legal and located in the same building.

White Beard said:
if you see the buddha on the road, rape him, then kill him. then rape him again.


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Offlineblingbling
what you chicken stew?

Registered: 09/04/10
Posts: 2,987
Last seen: 3 years, 2 months
Re: Filling the Void [Re: Memories]
    #23974327 - 01/01/17 09:52 PM (7 years, 29 days ago)

I made a thread pretty similar to this a while ago that you might like

https://www.shroomery.org/forums/showflat.php/Number/23735160


--------------------
Kupo said:
let's fuel the robots with psilocybin.

cez said:
everyone should smoke dmt for religion.

dustinthewind13 said:
euthanasia and prostitution should be legal and located in the same building.

White Beard said:
if you see the buddha on the road, rape him, then kill him. then rape him again.


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Offlineblingbling
what you chicken stew?

Registered: 09/04/10
Posts: 2,987
Last seen: 3 years, 2 months
Re: Filling the Void [Re: Memories] * 1
    #23974369 - 01/01/17 10:02 PM (7 years, 29 days ago)

Quote:

Memories said:
Quote:

laughingdog said:
Quote:

Memories said:


The best we can hope to do is find the best distraction for us personally.




with that attitude you will remain stuck




You're right.

Fixating on this negative outlook only hinders my ability to successfully distract myself and find meaning.

The most fulfillment i've found comes when i let go of this habit of dissociating from life to analyze the distasteful perceptions of things, and instead, I allow myself to enter the flow. It is really an application of meditation to the proceedings of each day.




Meditation (like hedonism used to be) is the new denial of death. it is used in modern circles as a means to distract oneself from the inevitable, which is fine if that's what you want to do. But, I wouldn't say its much different from playing video games, sex or any other kind of distraction. However, once this is fully realised it seems to take the zing out of the experience. I think there is a secret hope in the meditator that by reaching enlightenment they will make a connection with a realm beyond death and hence never die.


--------------------
Kupo said:
let's fuel the robots with psilocybin.

cez said:
everyone should smoke dmt for religion.

dustinthewind13 said:
euthanasia and prostitution should be legal and located in the same building.

White Beard said:
if you see the buddha on the road, rape him, then kill him. then rape him again.


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Invisibleredgreenvines
irregular verb
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Registered: 04/08/04
Posts: 37,539
Re: Filling the Void [Re: blingbling] * 4
    #23975074 - 01/02/17 05:44 AM (7 years, 28 days ago)

Quote:

meditation is the "new" denial of death


- no way jose.

immersing in the moment is the antithesis of running away, the opposite of denial.

if it starts to become death denial, then you are witnessing an internal dialog, just take note and continue the practice.

(hold off writing that book for a few years)


--------------------
:confused: _ :brainfart:đź§   _ :finger:


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OfflineDuncan Rowhl
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Registered: 10/08/12
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Re: Filling the Void [Re: redgreenvines]
    #23976906 - 01/02/17 06:02 PM (7 years, 28 days ago)

Quote:

Meditation (like hedonism used to be) is the new denial of death. it is used in modern circles as a means to distract oneself from the inevitable, which is fine if that's what you want to do. But, I wouldn't say its much different from playing video games, sex or any other kind of distraction.




It's as close to 'death' as we can possibly achieve as well, non-toxicated beings.  It adheres to complete and total acceptance of death in preparing oneself to be spiritually matured and attuned.

It is not in any way the same as video games which are a death distraction and in many cases, a will of alternative reality.  Video games can be absolutely toxic to Spirit.

Sex is for the purpose of reproduction which can be abused to the point of vice which is often a repercussion of a spirit that is out of alignment.  Craving poor quality foods comes part and parcel as a similar vice.

You're likely to find that your destructive ego is restraining you from benefits which will challenge its own existence or you've been guided towards a form of meditation by the destructive ego which is presenting a tainted, untrue version.


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Invisibleliquidlounge

Registered: 12/22/10
Posts: 9,256
Re: Filling the Void [Re: Duncan Rowhl]
    #23976910 - 01/02/17 06:05 PM (7 years, 28 days ago)

Quote:

Duncan Rowhl said:
Quote:

Meditation (like hedonism used to be) is the new denial of death. it is used in modern circles as a means to distract oneself from the inevitable, which is fine if that's what you want to do. But, I wouldn't say its much different from playing video games, sex or any other kind of distraction.




It's as close to 'death' as we can possibly achieve as well, non-toxicated beings.



And how do you know this?


--------------------
As far as I assume to know...


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OfflineDuncan Rowhl
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Re: Filling the Void [Re: liquidlounge]
    #23976915 - 01/02/17 06:08 PM (7 years, 28 days ago)

Quote:

liquidlounge said:
Quote:

Duncan Rowhl said:
Quote:

Meditation (like hedonism used to be) is the new denial of death. it is used in modern circles as a means to distract oneself from the inevitable, which is fine if that's what you want to do. But, I wouldn't say its much different from playing video games, sex or any other kind of distraction.




It's as close to 'death' as we can possibly achieve as well, non-toxicated beings.



And how do you know this?




As far as I assume to know...


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Invisibleredgreenvines
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Registered: 04/08/04
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Re: Filling the Void [Re: Duncan Rowhl]
    #23976939 - 01/02/17 06:16 PM (7 years, 28 days ago)

meditation is not close to death.
it is hyper alive but calm as fuck.
this is not like death.


--------------------
:confused: _ :brainfart:đź§   _ :finger:


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OfflineDuncan Rowhl
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Re: Filling the Void [Re: redgreenvines]
    #23976946 - 01/02/17 06:19 PM (7 years, 28 days ago)

Quote:

redgreenvines said:
meditation is not close to death.
it is hyper alive but calm as fuck.
this is not like death.




The one who meditates decides and swearing in a sentence containing 'calm' is not calm.

We can only question then if you actually meditate. :thumbup:


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Invisibleliquidlounge

Registered: 12/22/10
Posts: 9,256
Re: Filling the Void [Re: Duncan Rowhl]
    #23976957 - 01/02/17 06:25 PM (7 years, 28 days ago)

Quote:

Duncan Rowhl said:
Quote:

liquidlounge said:
Quote:

Duncan Rowhl said:
Quote:

Meditation (like hedonism used to be) is the new denial of death. it is used in modern circles as a means to distract oneself from the inevitable, which is fine if that's what you want to do. But, I wouldn't say its much different from playing video games, sex or any other kind of distraction.




It's as close to 'death' as we can possibly achieve as well, non-toxicated beings.



And how do you know this?




As far as I assume to know...



Fair enough, elaborate why it's somehow close to death.

Because I think it's a best guess.


--------------------
As far as I assume to know...


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OfflineDuncan Rowhl
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Re: Filling the Void [Re: liquidlounge]
    #23976967 - 01/02/17 06:31 PM (7 years, 28 days ago)

^ We're still in wait of your contribution, so let us know why you don't believe it is so (if this is indeed the case), based upon your guess. :thumbup:


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Invisibleliquidlounge

Registered: 12/22/10
Posts: 9,256
Re: Filling the Void [Re: Duncan Rowhl]
    #23976983 - 01/02/17 06:39 PM (7 years, 28 days ago)

Don't be silly, Duncan. You put forward the claim, and so you should really go first.

But I think it's a best guess as you have most likely no clue what death is, at all.

Unless you prove me wrong of course.


--------------------
As far as I assume to know...


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OfflineDuncan Rowhl
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Re: Filling the Void [Re: liquidlounge]
    #23977017 - 01/02/17 06:53 PM (7 years, 28 days ago)

Quote:

liquidlounge said:
Don't be silly, Duncan. You put forward the claim, and so you should really go first.

But I think it's a best guess as you have most likely no clue what death is, at all.

Unless you prove me wrong of course.





My meditation is my comfort, my words my contribution, proving you wrong - not my onus.

A civil exchange does not stem from simply naysaying.

Bidding you a milder night. :thumbup:


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Invisibleredgreenvines
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Registered: 04/08/04
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Re: Filling the Void [Re: Duncan Rowhl]
    #23977022 - 01/02/17 06:55 PM (7 years, 28 days ago)

Quote:

Duncan Rowhl said:
Quote:

redgreenvines said:
meditation is not close to death.
it is hyper alive but calm as fuck.
this is not like death.




The one who meditates decides and swearing in a sentence containing 'calm' is not calm.

We can only question then if you actually meditate. :thumbup:


who is 'we'? and why would 'we' question;
is it  because I am not part of your tribe?
I an allowed to use the word 'fuck' when I mean things and want to shake things up a bit.


--------------------
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