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MycoFlora
Farmer


Registered: 10/06/14
Posts: 309
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Supplemented Cotton Seed Hulls
#23968426 - 12/30/16 03:22 PM (7 years, 1 month ago) |
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I recently came across a great opportunity for next to free cotton seed hull substrate. A few tons for 50 bucks. It is always a smart decision to reutilize waste streams when possible. And I am well aware of the arguments/debates on cotton seed hull use in terms of 'toxicity', there is already a very in-depth thread on that so I don't want to go into that here.
The idea is to switch my oyster production over to all cotton seed hulls supplemented with wheat bran. The result would be a high cellulose/high protein sub that oysters would gobble up and hopefully yield much more. I have grown on CSH before with great success, but they were not supplemented. Does anyone have experience with what I describe?? Any thoughts?
-Scott
Edited by MycoFlora (12/30/16 07:00 PM)
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MycoFlora
Farmer


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Re: Supplemented Cotton Seed Hulls [Re: MycoFlora]
#23970637 - 12/31/16 12:26 PM (7 years, 30 days ago) |
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Well I went ahead and made a few bags to test out side by side with my supp. sawdust formula (80/20). I will post my findings after they fruit!
Hope others can chime in on the mean time.
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MorePies
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Re: Supplemented Cotton Seed Hulls [Re: MycoFlora]
#23971224 - 12/31/16 03:57 PM (7 years, 30 days ago) |
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Mush grower on YouTube ran csh for a minute, there might be a formula in there somewhere.
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MycoFlora
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Re: Supplemented Cotton Seed Hulls [Re: MorePies]
#23971279 - 12/31/16 04:28 PM (7 years, 30 days ago) |
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I recall him using them, which is what initially sparked my interest in them.But he only pasteurized. When I ran them it was with lime pasteurization and had great results, but I'm wanting to see how they compare when supplemented and sterilized like you would with sawdust. Especially if they are this cheap! I only stopped using them because of cost and now that I've found this new source they are definitely my cheapest option.
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drake89
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Re: Supplemented Cotton Seed Hulls [Re: MycoFlora]
#23971469 - 12/31/16 05:58 PM (7 years, 30 days ago) |
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I would mix them with sawdust since csh have terrible moisture holding capacity. It would also fill in voids. You could try adding soy hulls as well.
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MycoFlora
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Re: Supplemented Cotton Seed Hulls [Re: drake89]
#23971681 - 12/31/16 07:37 PM (7 years, 30 days ago) |
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Quote:
drake89 said: I would mix them with sawdust since csh have terrible moisture holding capacity. It would also fill in voids. You could try adding soy hulls as well.
I was thinking about going the soy hull route after seeing your results, but they are a little pricey. On a nutritional level, I feel like the csh is pretty high in cellulose and the wheat bran is even higher in protein than soy hulls so I'm excited to give it a go.
Also just found an interesting short write up on this very subject. http://www.webpages.uidaho.edu/winr/Ekpo.htm
Good call on thw sawdust. I'll try that out at different rates.
Edited by MycoFlora (12/31/16 07:38 PM)
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Ferather
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Re: Supplemented Cotton Seed Hulls [Re: MycoFlora]
#23972742 - 01/01/17 11:19 AM (7 years, 29 days ago) |
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I have always considered CSH as an additive, rather than a main substrate. How much cheaper is CSH?
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MycoFlora
Farmer


Registered: 10/06/14
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Re: Supplemented Cotton Seed Hulls [Re: Ferather]
#23972782 - 01/01/17 11:36 AM (7 years, 29 days ago) |
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50 dollars for a few tons. I grew on them last season with incredible results. My oysters did 10+ flushed. I am trying to source more affordable bulk sub as I move into the wholesale arena and then this fell right into my lap! Running some tests as we speak I should have some results in the next few weeks.
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Ferather
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Re: Supplemented Cotton Seed Hulls [Re: MycoFlora]
#23972915 - 01/01/17 12:32 PM (7 years, 29 days ago) |
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CSH is one of the most potent additives for oysters, due to nutritional composition. I have a request if possible, bran vs CSH as an additive with comparison.
I would soon drop bran to CSH if they are better.
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drake89
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Re: Supplemented Cotton Seed Hulls [Re: MycoFlora]
#23973486 - 01/01/17 04:35 PM (7 years, 29 days ago) |
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Quote:
MycoFlora said: 50 dollars for a few tons. I grew on them last season with incredible results. My oysters did 10+ flushed. I am trying to source more affordable bulk sub as I move into the wholesale arena and then this fell right into my lap! Running some tests as we speak I should have some results in the next few weeks.
That is real cheap! They are 180 a ton last I checked.
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MycoFlora
Farmer


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Re: Supplemented Cotton Seed Hulls [Re: Ferather]
#23973810 - 01/01/17 06:22 PM (7 years, 29 days ago) |
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That is real cheap! They are 180 a ton last I checked.
Yea I was very stoked. I think the guy is cutting me a very good deal. Best price on any bulk sub besides fuel pellets I've seen so far.
Quote:
Ferather said: CSH is one of the most potent additives for oysters, due to nutritional composition. I have a request if possible, bran vs CSH as an additive with comparison.
I would soon drop bran to CSH if they are better.
I will try a batch out of bran vs csh on fuel pellets next round for you my man.
Here is the first small batch.
 35 lbs cotton seed hulls 12 lbs fuel pellets 8 lbs wheat bran 41 lbs water
makes 16 6lb bags. Hereeeee we go!
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Gr0wer
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Re: Supplemented Cotton Seed Hulls [Re: MycoFlora]
#23973877 - 01/01/17 06:43 PM (7 years, 29 days ago) |
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Lots of cotton growers by me. Going to have to look into a local source, probably going to be cheaper than my $15 sacks of soybean.
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drake89
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Re: Supplemented Cotton Seed Hulls [Re: Gr0wer]
#23973961 - 01/01/17 07:13 PM (7 years, 29 days ago) |
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Quote:
Gr0wer said: Lots of cotton growers by me. Going to have to look into a local source, probably going to be cheaper than my $15 sacks of soybean.
got to factor in other stuff like yield %. substrate cost is pretty easy to justify if the yields are better per lb or sq ft. Say CSH are $9 per bag and soy hulls are $15, if the yields are 2x per dry lb on SBH vs CSH, then you get say $200 more mushrooms for $6 more substrate. at least that's how I look at it. I can get sawdust by the dumptruck load from my neighbor for $50 but I drive 2 hours for wood pellets and pay way more per ton. because the product isn't bioactive (decomposing), and takes less time to sterilize.
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Gr0wer
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Re: Supplemented Cotton Seed Hulls [Re: drake89]
#23974030 - 01/01/17 07:43 PM (7 years, 29 days ago) |
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Yea i was considering getting some local mulch but ive been considering contacting a pellet mill 4 hours away in Albuquerque and seeing if they can do a run of pecan or some other hardwood for me.
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MycoFlora
Farmer


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Re: Supplemented Cotton Seed Hulls [Re: drake89]
#23974032 - 01/01/17 07:44 PM (7 years, 29 days ago) |
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Very sound logic and I actually agree. But if the csh are THIS cheap it's pretty economical to go that route. Also, that's what I'm attempting to test with supplementing the csh and comparing the yield% to folks like yourself who use sbh. What is your typical 1st flush with sbh? 20%?
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drake89
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Re: Supplemented Cotton Seed Hulls [Re: MycoFlora]
#23974053 - 01/01/17 07:49 PM (7 years, 29 days ago) |
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up to 50% usually around 30% on average, like i've had some 3lb clusters off 6.5lb bags. they weren't totally blown out either, still had curled caps. it's pretty hard to get great yields in a mixed grow room, since you want the bags soaking wet until they start pinning.
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MycoFlora
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Re: Supplemented Cotton Seed Hulls [Re: drake89]
#23974111 - 01/01/17 08:15 PM (7 years, 29 days ago) |
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Holy shit dude! Wow. I had no idea sbh packed that big of a punch. With a higher percentage of bran in the csh mix, aren't they nutritionally comparable sub mixes?
Edited by MycoFlora (01/01/17 08:16 PM)
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drake89
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Re: Supplemented Cotton Seed Hulls [Re: MycoFlora]
#23974198 - 01/01/17 08:57 PM (7 years, 29 days ago) |
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Quote:
MycoFlora said: Holy shit dude! Wow. I had no idea sbh packed that big of a punch. With a higher percentage of bran in the csh mix, aren't they nutritionally comparable sub mixes?
probably pretty close, bran is almost the same N% as SBH ,it's more expensive tho.
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MycoFlora
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Re: Supplemented Cotton Seed Hulls [Re: drake89]
#23974241 - 01/01/17 09:16 PM (7 years, 29 days ago) |
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Really? I get 50lbs for $10. Guess I'm getting lucky with my sources lately. I'll have to check the price of sbh, although last time I checked they didn't carry them.
And Gr0wer- Where I used to get mine they were $8 for a 30lb sack. I think you only get good prices if you buy per ton.
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MorePies
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Re: Supplemented Cotton Seed Hulls [Re: MycoFlora]
#23974631 - 01/01/17 11:45 PM (7 years, 29 days ago) |
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In terms of carbon and protein sources, CSH is a base substrate not a supplement, as it's only 5% protein. SBH is a combo of both as it has 13% protein and 38% crude fiber. For comparison, wheat straw has 4% protein and 41% fiber.
Check out feedipedia, there is a basic nutrient breakdown for all of this stuff.
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drake89
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Re: Supplemented Cotton Seed Hulls [Re: MycoFlora]
#23975257 - 01/02/17 07:28 AM (7 years, 28 days ago) |
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Quote:
MycoFlora said: Really? I get 50lbs for $10. Guess I'm getting lucky with my sources lately. I'll have to check the price of sbh, although last time I checked they didn't carry them.
And Gr0wer- Where I used to get mine they were $8 for a 30lb sack. I think you only get good prices if you buy per ton.
Sbh are definetly available in memphis, there are a lot of huge mills by the river. I did notice they use the expensive sbh pellets that are milled in alabama at my dad's farm tho. Not sure why the co op trucks then so far. We get the co op brand ones for $4.80 a bag in Murfreesboro.
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MycoFlora
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Re: Supplemented Cotton Seed Hulls [Re: drake89]
#23975544 - 01/02/17 10:00 AM (7 years, 28 days ago) |
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I called every feed store I could find and no one has any. They say they can order soybean meal for like $18 for a 50lb bag. Is this a suitable substitute? I'm going to keep looking, but that price is insane. All the soy farmers I've talked to say they leave the hulls in the field. Guess I'm going to try some of the big mills next.
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MorePies
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Re: Supplemented Cotton Seed Hulls [Re: MycoFlora]
#23976949 - 01/02/17 06:21 PM (7 years, 28 days ago) |
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Myco-Get further up the chain and look for mills, or the folks supplying the feed stores. Y
Are the hulls what comes off the soybean when processed? A silver skin of sorts?
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MycoFlora
Farmer


Registered: 10/06/14
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Re: Supplemented Cotton Seed Hulls [Re: MorePies]
#23977010 - 01/02/17 06:51 PM (7 years, 28 days ago) |
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Just found pelleted soy hulls @ $10 per 50lb bag. Seems like a pretty good deal to me. But I'm hoping to replace the sbh with higher bran rates since it has higher protein and similar N and is the same price.
Oh and an update on the cotton seed hulls, he's giving me them for free in exchange for mushrooms.
Going to pick up a big load tomorrow and incoluating the mix I just made with some brown oyster spawn. Not the highest yielding strain to test it out, but I'm still waiting on my 3015 from Amycel. Is anyone else baffled that they only do checks/ money order and it's 2017?
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Quadman
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Re: Supplemented Cotton Seed Hulls [Re: MorePies]
#23977097 - 01/02/17 07:28 PM (7 years, 28 days ago) |
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Quote:
MorePies said: Myco-Get further up the chain and look for mills, or the folks supplying the feed stores. Y
Are the hulls what comes off the soybean when processed? A silver skin of sorts?
soy hulls are the seed coat off soybeans. They are very thin. Yes before seeds are crushed for oil they remove the hulls. Any bean becomes two pieces when the seed coat is removed.
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Gr0wer
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Re: Supplemented Cotton Seed Hulls [Re: drake89]
#23977147 - 01/02/17 07:44 PM (7 years, 28 days ago) |
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Quote:
drake89 said: up to 50% usually around 30% on average, like i've had some 3lb clusters off 6.5lb bags. they weren't totally blown out either, still had curled caps. it's pretty hard to get great yields in a mixed grow room, since you want the bags soaking wet until they start pinning.
Yea i see around %40 id say first flush usually like 35-45 lbs from 100 lbs dry sub over 3 days for a fresh set of bags. After 6 weeks i get about 70-80 lbs. per batch. Im actually at a crazy overload right now from the holidays. All my auxiliary outlets like farmers markets are closed.
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MorePies
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Re: Supplemented Cotton Seed Hulls [Re: MycoFlora]
#23977927 - 01/03/17 03:18 AM (7 years, 27 days ago) |
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Quote:
MycoFlora said: Just found pelleted soy hulls @ $10 per 50lb bag. Seems like a pretty good deal to me. But I'm hoping to replace the sbh with higher bran rates since it has higher protein and similar N and is the same price.
Oh and an update on the cotton seed hulls, he's giving me them for free in exchange for mushrooms.
Going to pick up a big load tomorrow and incoluating the mix I just made with some brown oyster spawn. Not the highest yielding strain to test it out, but I'm still waiting on my 3015 from Amycel. Is anyone else baffled that they only do checks/ money order and it's 2017?
Awesome score! I have a feeling with a little searching I could get rice hulls by the ton as well. So I'll be following your trials .
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Pistil-Whipped
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Re: Supplemented Cotton Seed Hulls [Re: MycoFlora]
#23977990 - 01/03/17 05:05 AM (7 years, 27 days ago) |
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Quote:
MycoFlora said:
Is anyone else baffled that they only do checks/ money order and it's 2017?
Yes. Also they aren't that interested in the product after it ships. I ordered a couple of cases of 3015 (perfect) and then moved to their shiitake. The first case came dropped and rebagged by ups, the replacement ( I had to pay full price, no refund for destroyed bag) was triched out. All that money, work and all that prepared substrate- green. I sent pictures, I complained- nothing. Manuella is a nice lady and all but I expect better when doing business that that. No stars out of ten. Will not ever re-order.
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drake89
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Quote:
Pistil-Whipped said:
Quote:
MycoFlora said:
Is anyone else baffled that they only do checks/ money order and it's 2017?
Yes. Also they aren't that interested in the product after it ships. I ordered a couple of cases of 3015 (perfect) and then moved to their shiitake. The first case came dropped and rebagged by ups, the replacement ( I had to pay full price, no refund for destroyed bag) was triched out. All that money, work and all that prepared substrate- green. I sent pictures, I complained- nothing. Manuella is a nice lady and all but I expect better when doing business that that. No stars out of ten. Will not ever re-order.
well most of their business is moved by the truckload. all mushroom spawn companies ship shippers risk.
once you start ordering a lot, you can get 30 day terms so you just send one check in every month with say $500 or $1000 credit line.
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Gr0wer
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Re: Supplemented Cotton Seed Hulls [Re: drake89]
#23978711 - 01/03/17 12:34 PM (7 years, 27 days ago) |
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You dont even need to order a lot. Just on a schedule even if its just a box a month. They are not set up for hobbiest scale retail like drake said, wholesale bulk. Thats why you pay only $1 per lb in spawn. You can stop using them and bash all you want but the culture is excellent.
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Pistil-Whipped
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Re: Supplemented Cotton Seed Hulls [Re: Gr0wer]
#23980541 - 01/04/17 03:02 AM (7 years, 26 days ago) |
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Quote:
You can stop using them and bash all you want but the culture is excellent.
Not at all meant as bashing. Reporting my experience, note the "perfect" next to 3015, just honest reporting of my experience, not everything is done with malice. I agree the culture is amazing. I am still running it and it is contamination resistant, has an amazing shelf life plus it is gorgeous to look at.
My comment was merely a response to Myco-Floras statement that the billing process was unusual for this day and age. I had no intent of de-railing your conversation.
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drake89
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TBH they mostly exist to fulfill their parent company's needs. Monterey mushrooms, biggest farm in north america.
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