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Webster10
Up like Trump



Registered: 12/03/13
Posts: 9,966
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Re: More sanctions against Russia [Re: sweeper54] 3
#24032528 - 01/23/17 05:29 AM (7 years, 7 days ago) |
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Whatsup man? Why are you so fixated with trump's penis? I've never really responded to it cause I figured you were just mad and it's fizzle out, but you're still obsessing over his dick. Is there something you'd like to tell us all?
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elax420
Anal Destroyer


Registered: 10/16/12
Posts: 15,536
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Re: More sanctions against Russia [Re: Webster10]
#24036443 - 01/24/17 03:56 PM (7 years, 6 days ago) |
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He obviously hates himself cuz he is a mediocre cishet white male.
Like duh,
DouevenTumblr, bro?
mod note: not a troll on the poster but rather a troll on SJW/ mainstream liberal culture
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The Ecstatic
Chilldog Extraordinaire


Registered: 11/11/09
Posts: 33,369
Loc: 'Merica
Last seen: 7 hours, 8 minutes
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Re: More sanctions against Russia [Re: elax420] 2
#24036737 - 01/24/17 05:46 PM (7 years, 6 days ago) |
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Sjw =/= mainstream liberal culture
This sub has a real problem with sample size.
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elax420
Anal Destroyer


Registered: 10/16/12
Posts: 15,536
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Quote:
The Ecstatic said: Sjw =/= mainstream liberal culture
This sub has a real problem with sample size.
Yes it 100% is.
Did you go to any of the protests, or listen to any of Hillary Clinton's speeches? POC this, trans that, hands off my vagina, Love trumps hate, But white, christian, and male=evil. In my eyes this is just more classist bullshit to keep the people divided.
If you see how the marriage between SJW's and Neo-liberals creates a terrible undercurrent that manifests itself in the "alt-right" maybe you should stop being a liberal and finally radicalize. You keep sticking up for the liberal establishment like it is a positive positon for the working classes to take. You really think you can talk your way to a more equitable society?
Political power comes from the barrel of a gun my friend
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The Ecstatic
Chilldog Extraordinaire


Registered: 11/11/09
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Re: More sanctions against Russia [Re: elax420] 2
#24037411 - 01/24/17 10:12 PM (7 years, 6 days ago) |
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I think you're too smart to be that shortsighted.
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elax420
Anal Destroyer


Registered: 10/16/12
Posts: 15,536
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Re: More sanctions against Russia [Re: The Ecstatic] 1
#24037447 - 01/24/17 10:25 PM (7 years, 6 days ago) |
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I guess we will wait and see how this presidency plays out. Everyone seems to think it's going to be catastrophic and result in massive unrest.
Maybe I'm just being a pussy, but I don't think it's wise to underestimate Nazi's and allure of far right rhetoric. The Dems do this nonstop, maybe not even intentionally. They are just so scared of leftist populism and preoccupied with destroying it, that they have lost touch with the people.
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sweeper54



Registered: 11/07/12
Posts: 2,865
Last seen: 9 days, 5 hours
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Re: More sanctions against Russia [Re: elax420]
#24037901 - 01/25/17 07:08 AM (7 years, 5 days ago) |
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Quote:
elax420 said: He obviously hates himself cuz he is a mediocre cishet white male.
Like duh,
DouevenTumblr, bro?
mod note: not a troll on the poster but rather a troll on SJW/ mainstream liberal culture
Yes lil'dick is a mediocre cishet white male.
I have no idea what Tumblr is and don't care.
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The Ecstatic
Chilldog Extraordinaire


Registered: 11/11/09
Posts: 33,369
Loc: 'Merica
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Re: More sanctions against Russia [Re: elax420]
#24037940 - 01/25/17 07:36 AM (7 years, 5 days ago) |
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Quote:
elax420 said: I guess we will wait and see how this presidency plays out. Everyone seems to think it's going to be catastrophic and result in massive unrest.
Maybe I'm just being a pussy, but I don't think it's wise to underestimate Nazi's and allure of far right rhetoric. The Dems do this nonstop, maybe not even intentionally. They are just so scared of leftist populism and preoccupied with destroying it, that they have lost touch with the people.
Agreed.
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sweeper54



Registered: 11/07/12
Posts: 2,865
Last seen: 9 days, 5 hours
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Re: More sanctions against Russia [Re: elax420]
#24037946 - 01/25/17 07:40 AM (7 years, 5 days ago) |
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Quote:
elax420 said: I guess we will wait and see how this presidency plays out. Everyone seems to think it's going to be catastrophic and result in massive unrest.
Maybe I'm just being a pussy, but I don't think it's wise to underestimate Nazi's and allure of far right rhetoric. The Dems do this nonstop, maybe not even intentionally. They are just so scared of leftist populism and preoccupied with destroying it, that they have lost touch with the people.
I think they (Dems) have realized that now that people are getting in touch with them.
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Brian Jones
Club 27



Registered: 12/18/12
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Re: More sanctions against Russia [Re: The Ecstatic] 1
#24208946 - 03/31/17 06:13 PM (6 years, 9 months ago) |
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Quote:
The Ecstatic said: Covert actions are escalating. And it appears its not in our interest to have a "war victory," we like to draw these conflicts out.
There will be kids graduating high school next year who have never lived in a world where the US WASNT invading Afghanistan. Its normalized now. And "winning" isnt needed to keep the gears turning anymore.
I just re-found your post from almost 3 months ago, and am intrigued by the 2nd sentence. I think you're right and it explains what has perplexed me for 40 years. Since Korea and certainly since Viet Nam we have not won wars. I don't think we could have won Viet Nam without the "bomb em into the stone age thesis" or complete defoliation but could have definitely negotiated a settlement many years earlier than when we pulled out. Johnson starts out refusing to be the first President to lose a war, but war weariness took a big toll and he didn't run for his last term. I will never forget listening to that speech: "My fellow Americans, I come to you with a heavy heart". In retrospect Johnson expressed his true feelings at the beginning and the end. Dick Nixon was deceptive as hell. He won his 2nd term almost entirely by conning us that he had a secret plan to end the war, and after winning promptly re-escalated it. The jungles of Viet Nam were a hard place to fight but Iraq and nearby countries are not.
So why do we not win wars. I always believed the usual litany of reasons. Regardless of how many countries we invade we are the greatest humanitarian country on earth, and it is very important domestically and abroad to maintain that propaganda talking point, so apparently that's why we don't go in for the end game kill. We kill so many people but have no stomach for finishing the job. There are so many atrocities in any war, but we get squeamish about it at the end.
Our military is the best at what they're supposed to do, but after that it becomes a police action, requiring political solutions which our soldiers cannot do, and also leaves them as sitting ducks getting killed for entirely no reason. It makes no difference how many thousand times the Generals try to tell this to the political leaders.
And the obvious stated briefest by Country Joe and the Fish at Woodstock, "There's plenty good money to be made supplying the Army with the tools of the trade".
As the years pass these reasons seem necessary but not sufficient. You must be right. We don't think it is in our interest to win wars.
-------------------- "The Rolling Stones will break up over Brian Jones' dead body" John Lennon I don't want no commies in my car. No Christians either. The worst thing about corruption is that it works so well,
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Morel Guy
Stranger


Registered: 01/23/13
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Re: More sanctions against Russia [Re: Brian Jones]
#24210656 - 04/01/17 11:41 AM (6 years, 9 months ago) |
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There is a reason why the Vietnam war is known as South East Asia. They were also limited targets in the North. Afraid of getting the Russians more involved.
The thing about Iraq and afghanistan and all the wars is who wants to win more. Americans are usually comfy and get tired of war news. It was only 9-11 that inspired so many to war. But the got bored and tired and now there is isis.
You really must win wars quickly if you are going to war, since Korea.
-------------------- "in sterquiliniis invenitur in stercore invenitur" In filth it will be found in dung it will be found
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sweeper54



Registered: 11/07/12
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Last seen: 9 days, 5 hours
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Re: More sanctions against Russia [Re: Morel Guy] 2
#24212564 - 04/02/17 05:52 AM (6 years, 9 months ago) |
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The problem is, we won the war in Iraq, we couldn't win the peace. Those people want to fight each other and they don't have a brutal dictator to hold the country together.
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Morel Guy
Stranger


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Re: More sanctions against Russia [Re: sweeper54] 1
#24212684 - 04/02/17 07:42 AM (6 years, 9 months ago) |
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I am not so sure the war was won. Sure the regime changed then Isis formed. Seems like it has a ways to go, but why would it not?
Saddam held the place together. Isis probably wouldn't had such a strong hold. Saddam would gas them. It's hard to rebel under a dictator.
-------------------- "in sterquiliniis invenitur in stercore invenitur" In filth it will be found in dung it will be found
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sweeper54



Registered: 11/07/12
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Last seen: 9 days, 5 hours
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Re: More sanctions against Russia [Re: Morel Guy]
#24212788 - 04/02/17 09:06 AM (6 years, 9 months ago) |
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We won, Isis formed in the vacuum of leadership and wouldn't have formed under Saddam until his sons took overs and it would have been different. I would have been a 3 way civil war Sunnis against Shiites against Kurds and no room for Isis.
And yes that is an oversimplification of the it.
Edited by sweeper54 (04/02/17 09:59 AM)
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ballsalsa
Universally Loathed and Reviled



Registered: 03/11/15
Posts: 20,876
Loc: Foreign Lands
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Re: More sanctions against Russia [Re: sweeper54] 1
#24212924 - 04/02/17 10:46 AM (6 years, 9 months ago) |
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Quote:
Morel Guy said: I am not so sure the war was won. Sure the regime changed then Isis formed. Seems like it has a ways to go, but why would it not?
Saddam held the place together. Isis probably wouldn't had such a strong hold. Saddam would gas them. It's hard to rebel under a dictator.
Quote:
sweeper54 said: We won, Isis formed in the vacuum of leadership and wouldn't have formed under Saddam until his sons took overs and it would have been different. I would have been a 3 way civil war Sunnis against Shiites against Kurds and no room for Isis.
And yes that is an oversimplification of the it.
You military guys may appreciate this
excerpted from Strategy second revised edition by Sir B.H. Liddel Hart pg. 357
Quote:
Victory in the true sense implies that the state of peace, and of one's people, is better after the war than before. Victory in this sense is only possible if a quick result can be gained or if long effort can be economically proportioned to the national resources. The end must be adjusted to the means. Failing a fair prospect of such a victory, wise statesmanship will miss no opportunity for negotiating peace. Peace through stalemate, based on a coincident recognition by each side of the opponent's strength, is at least preferable to peace through common exhaustion-- and has often provided a better foundation for lasting peace. It is wiser to run the risks of war for the sake of preserving peace than to run risks of exhaustion in war for the sake of finishing with victory--a conclusion that runs counter to custom but is supported by experience. Perseverance in war is only justifiable if there is a good chance of a good end--the prospect of a peace that will balance the sum of human misery incurred in the struggle. Indeed, deepening study of past experience leads to the conclusion that nations might often have come nearer to their object by taking advantage of a lull in the struggle to discuss a settlement than by pursuing the war with the aim of "victory".
The experience of history brings ample evidence that the downfall of civilized States tends to come not from the direct assaults of foes, but from internal decay, combined with the consequences of exhaustion in war. A state of suspense is trying--it has often led nations as well as individuals to commit suicide because they were unable to bear it. But suspense is better than to reach exhaustion in pursuit of the mirage of victory. Moreover, a truce to actual hostilities enables a recovery and development of strength, while the need for vigilance helpts to keep a nation "on its toes". Peaceful nations are apt, however, to court unnecessary danger, because once aroused they are more inclined to proceed to extremes than predatory nations. For the latter, making war as a means of gain, are usually more ready to call it off when they find an opponent too strong to be easily overcome. It is the reluctant fighter, impelled by emotion and not be calculation, who tends to press a fight to the bitter end. Thereby he too often defeats his own end, even if he does not produce his own direct defeat. For the spirit of barbarism can be weakened only during a cessation of hostilities;war strengthens it--pouring fuel on the flames.
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Enlil
OTD God-King




Registered: 08/16/03
Posts: 65,518
Loc: Uncanny Valley
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Re: More sanctions against Russia [Re: ballsalsa] 2
#24213228 - 04/02/17 01:05 PM (6 years, 9 months ago) |
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We haven't won a war since wwii
-------------------- Censoring opposing views since 2014. Ask an Attorney Fuck the Amish
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ballsalsa
Universally Loathed and Reviled



Registered: 03/11/15
Posts: 20,876
Loc: Foreign Lands
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Re: More sanctions against Russia [Re: Enlil]
#24213271 - 04/02/17 01:27 PM (6 years, 9 months ago) |
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exactly.
Quote:
Victory in the true sense implies that the state of peace, and of one's people, is better after the war than before. Victory in this sense is only possible if a quick result can be gained or if long effort can be economically proportioned to the national resources.
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Brian Jones
Club 27



Registered: 12/18/12
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Re: More sanctions against Russia [Re: Enlil]
#24214240 - 04/02/17 10:02 PM (6 years, 9 months ago) |
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Quote:
sweeper54 said: The problem is, we won the war in Iraq, we couldn't win the peace. Those people want to fight each other and they don't have a brutal dictator to hold the country together.
Quote:
Morel Guy said: I am not so sure the war was won. Sure the regime changed then Isis formed. Seems like it has a ways to go, but why would it not?
Saddam held the place together. Isis probably wouldn't had such a strong hold. Saddam would gas them. It's hard to rebel under a dictator.
Quote:
Enlil said: We haven't won a war since wwii
I agree with all of you. Sweeper54 just used different semantics. If you accept that definition it describes the situation in every conflict since at least post Viet Nam. (Unless we fought Russia or China with conventional weapons) our invasion would be successful against any country in the middle east, etc. Still not sure about jungles in S.E. Asia but not a factor now because we get along. We will win real battles. We can't win the peace because our military is not equipped to win political battles that our politicians are useless at.
I agree with Morel Guy and the bottom of Sweepers post. Eliminating Saddam had unforeseen consequences that cost us and the civilians over there greatly. The bad guy held things together. Reminds me of when Guiliani and the RICO act took down the NYC mafia and the power vacuum led to a multitude of ethnic gangs that killed many more civilians than the 5 families.
And of course I agree with Enlil. We haven't WON a war since WWII. (But surely you've forgotten our tremendous victory in Grenada) There should be a public service announcement flooding media that just lists the length of the 2 World Wars and every war since. Fox News wouldn't do it but many others would, if funding to pay for it was there since it would say anything else.
You probably all read it but in case you didn't, Yesterday The Ecstatic said It appears it's not in our interest to have a "war victory", we like to draw these conflicts out.
If anybody in this forum disagrees, I would like to hear their reasoning.
Edit, my mistake the Ecstatic said that many months ago. I stumbled across it and quoted him and commented yesterday.
-------------------- "The Rolling Stones will break up over Brian Jones' dead body" John Lennon I don't want no commies in my car. No Christians either. The worst thing about corruption is that it works so well,
Edited by Brian Jones (04/02/17 10:44 PM)
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sweeper54



Registered: 11/07/12
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Last seen: 9 days, 5 hours
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Re: More sanctions against Russia [Re: Brian Jones]
#24214659 - 04/03/17 06:46 AM (6 years, 9 months ago) |
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Both times the US went to war with Iraq we crushed them. They are in the win column, the shrub fucked it up afterwards does take away from the overall victory, but the demonstration of power was overwhelming. A country has to know that pushing the US into a fight they will lose, but we don't know how to or want to manage the peace, Russia/China not included.
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Enlil
OTD God-King




Registered: 08/16/03
Posts: 65,518
Loc: Uncanny Valley
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Re: More sanctions against Russia [Re: sweeper54] 1
#24214661 - 04/03/17 06:51 AM (6 years, 9 months ago) |
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No one is questioning whether or not Iraq lost. That's obvious. We didn't win, though. The fact that you think there is a "win column" says a lot about how the military trains people to think.
The bottom line is that the military isn't made up of our brightest and best. It's made up of those who didn't have a lot of options when they graduated high school. It's not a bad way to build a fighting force, but it's definitely not a good way to build a military that can effect the changes that need to happen without creating even bigger problems for us in the long run.
-------------------- Censoring opposing views since 2014. Ask an Attorney Fuck the Amish
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