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OfflineFunkyou2112
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DEAD Substrate? HELP
    #23950844 - 12/23/16 04:39 AM (7 years, 2 months ago)

Ok i got one for you experts........So i had 3 quart jars that were fully inoculated with  Ecuador  strain.......The rye grain jars were white as snow and showed no signs of contam.  My substrate was horse poop from Midwest Grow....the new stuff they are selling......coir, verm  worm casings, small amount of straw and a small amount of hydrated lime. I then mixed all that up and PC for 2 hours....... Then let to cool overnight and spawned the jars to the substrate mix.

I spawned it to a large turkey tin, lined with trash bag and lightly misted...then covered with Saran wrap with NO holes..... I then put it in my greenhouse and covered with trash bag  to keep light out.

9 days later I went back to look......opened the lid and to my surprise....NOTHING not any mycelium OR MOLD! I then started poking around and there was nothing!! It was almost like the spawn disintegrate!  I then checked the PH and it was perfect 7-8. There was no smell of mold or sour .......it did smell a little of the horse poop that was pasteurized and PCed.....but not strong. 

I have spawned many trays and had many successful flushes......BUT I am  stumped  on this situation and wanted to see if any of you have had this happen?


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InvisibleMad Season
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Re: DEAD Substrate? HELP [Re: Funkyou2112]
    #23951031 - 12/23/16 08:13 AM (7 years, 2 months ago)

10 bucks says the spawn was bacterial AF and didn't recover at all. You said you gave no gas exchange holes? Try giving it air to breathe. Also hpoo sterilized isn't good in open air.

Or maybe you forgot to spawn xD jk.


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OfflineFunkyou2112
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Re: DEAD Substrate? HELP [Re: Mad Season]
    #23963236 - 12/28/16 04:35 PM (7 years, 2 months ago)

check this out.....I then took a pint jar......mixed it up in some of  the same substrate and added some " spawnmate"/roll_eyes ( Magic worm food) and in 2 days i am now already casing.......... ! very strange.

BUT I think I know what it was.........I bought https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B000G2BESO/ref=oh_aui_detailpage_o05_s00?ie=UTF8&psc=1 and put it in the small green house i use to spawn substrate. I only had this one tray in there and it was the first and last time i will put that UV air filter in my green house.......I  think it works almost like a OZone machine  but mini version.  It was so small that I thought it would not hurt......but in a enclosed area , it became toxic?  I know it kills mold....and I bet it killed ALL my Mycelium as well.  BUT i think the dead Mycelium created a super substrate of some sort.  a learning experience.......


I am confused about your comment......once i take a fully colonized grow bag of ryegrain........and mix it with whatever substrate.....i seal it up for 4 days min, NO AIR, then i poke some small holes in whatever i used......and cover with micro-spore tape.  then in 6-7 more days I am ready to start the fruiting .......so what are you saying? It was my understanding and experience that Mycelium grows best this way and less chance of contams while it is building the bedding? AM i wrong or?


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InvisibleMad Season
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Re: DEAD Substrate? HELP [Re: Funkyou2112]
    #23963256 - 12/28/16 04:42 PM (7 years, 2 months ago)

You want gas exchange for colonization. Not fresh air exchange, which is used for fruiting. Big difference.

Gas exchange usually happens because of a filter in the container that keeps contams out, or in the case of a monotub spawned with clean spawn into a pasteurized substrate, the imperfect seal on the lid will provide gas exchange. In this case there's no need for sterility.

For bags there should be some sort of a filter, no?


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OfflineFunkyou2112
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Re: DEAD Substrate? HELP [Re: Mad Season]
    #23963376 - 12/28/16 05:35 PM (7 years, 2 months ago)

yes I either buy them online https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B004NOV2E2/ref=oh_aui_detailpage_o07_s00?ie=UTF8&psc=1

or make them myself.....but i only use the bags with rye grain then I spawn  that to substrate in a turkey tin.....inside of a monotube

Question for you...i am having a issue with green mold pooping up......other than throwing out the whole tin, any suggestions?  I have  spot cleaned the tins with salt and H2o which seems to work through the fruiting process.....I also learned a trick , by putting the infected tub outside for a few days......it seems to clear up the mold very nicely.

but there must be a way to fight off the contams........while in tubs.  I am building a clean room to help with this.but i cant seem to get rid of the =GREEN mold! grrrr
+


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InvisibleMad Season
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Re: DEAD Substrate? HELP [Re: Funkyou2112]
    #23965061 - 12/29/16 09:55 AM (7 years, 2 months ago)

I've had trich and threw it outside. It didn't die off. Just slowed down severely. You probably had something like aspergillus or penicillium. Cubensis seems to be able to manage those much easier than trichoderma.

Contam issues are because of dirty spawn. Your myc is too weak to fend off attackers probably due to Bacteria or something in the spawn. I need pics of your spawn.

And are these spawn bags? 5 microns is big for a filter size. 0.2 is what I'd use if it were me.

http://unicornbags.com/store/index.php/cPath/26


--------------------
contam and car window art
How to shroomery like a pro! (Seriously, everyone read this!)
Improve your sterile techniques! (A comprehensive guide to agar)
Links upon links of literally EVERYTHING UP TO DATE

AMU Q&A
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OfflineFunkyou2112
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Re: DEAD Substrate? HELP [Re: Mad Season]
    #23976762 - 01/02/17 05:05 PM (7 years, 1 month ago)

ok question for you....we were talking about FAE and you said that you should allow for it......but read this please?  There is so much info out there i cant seem to get it right......

"Place bag away from light in a warm place for 14 days (~80 F). Let no air exchange happen during this stage."  this is after inoculation.


https://www.dmt-nexus.me/forum/default.aspx?g=posts&t=19500

Edited by Funkyou2112 (01/02/17 05:08 PM)

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InvisibleMad Season
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Re: DEAD Substrate? HELP [Re: Funkyou2112]
    #23978243 - 01/03/17 09:31 AM (7 years, 1 month ago)

You want gas exchange not fresh air exchange. Gas exchange is basically just having very small amounts of filtered air go through. Co2 ppm should be 10-20k. Fresh air exchange, which is done ONLY in fruiting is 600-1000 ppm of co2. Also you want ambient light at all stages of growth.

So yes that link is somewhat accurate. Colonization stage should have very small amounts of air exchange, if there's absolutely no exchanges the myc will stall and go anaerobic.


--------------------
contam and car window art
How to shroomery like a pro! (Seriously, everyone read this!)
Improve your sterile techniques! (A comprehensive guide to agar)
Links upon links of literally EVERYTHING UP TO DATE

AMU Q&A
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OfflineFunkyou2112
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Re: DEAD Substrate? HELP [Re: Mad Season]
    #23981474 - 01/04/17 01:33 PM (7 years, 1 month ago)

could that have caused "the dead substrate"? if i let no air or gas exchange?


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InvisibleMad Season
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Re: DEAD Substrate? HELP [Re: Funkyou2112]
    #23981511 - 01/04/17 01:48 PM (7 years, 1 month ago)

OK after rereading the OP, you should store bags in open areas with lots of air. A tiny filter will be enough, but if you cover it with a trash bag inside of a green house, you're just asking for problems with air exchange and filter wetness. Light is beneficial at all stages, don't you forget that :wink:.

I'd store on a shelf in an open room with ambient sunlight :smile:.

But I've also had white spawn jars spawned to tubs with absolutely no recovery due to hidden bacteria in the spawn jars.

Right off the bat you can triple check your procedures and inoculation stuff, as well as let those bags breathe and not get wet filters. I'd recommend agar inoculant cleanup as well if you aren't.


--------------------
contam and car window art
How to shroomery like a pro! (Seriously, everyone read this!)
Improve your sterile techniques! (A comprehensive guide to agar)
Links upon links of literally EVERYTHING UP TO DATE

AMU Q&A
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OfflineFunkyou2112
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Re: DEAD Substrate? HELP [Re: Mad Season]
    #23988598 - 01/07/17 05:52 AM (7 years, 1 month ago)

Quote:

Mad Season said:
I'd recommend agar inoculation cleanup as well if you aren't.


  Would you be so kind to please explain that?  I am using agar to inoculate spores syringes and LC i have to, then I am spawning the agar to rye grain then to a straw / poo / coir based substrate.

I have been reading about  a H202 based agar to use to inoculate spores to that makes the mycilium more resistant to mold?  Do you have exp with this or a opinion?  and again please explain what you mean by "agar inoculation cleanup" ?  oh and is it normal for H2o2 to start smelling bad if mixed with water after a while?  I noticed my spray bottle that i have H202 in to try to contain contam break outs......smells odd.

Thanks in advance....for any and all info.


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InvisibleMad Season
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Re: DEAD Substrate? HELP [Re: Funkyou2112]
    #23988951 - 01/07/17 09:40 AM (7 years, 1 month ago)

Ugh peroxide.. No it is shit in agar, it evaporates away way too quickly to be used for anything in agar. Also it weakens the network of mycelium, making it more susceptible to other contaminations. The only time you really should be using peroxide is when you catch cobweb really early. Other than that, it's always caused me more harm than good.

What I mean by cleanup is ensure you have no hidden contams.


--------------------
contam and car window art
How to shroomery like a pro! (Seriously, everyone read this!)
Improve your sterile techniques! (A comprehensive guide to agar)
Links upon links of literally EVERYTHING UP TO DATE

AMU Q&A
No trees were killed in the sending of this message. However, a large number of electrons were terribly inconvenienced.

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OfflineFunkyou2112
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Re: DEAD Substrate? HELP [Re: Mad Season]
    #24032052 - 01/22/17 10:01 PM (7 years, 1 month ago)

Hey Mad........can you look at this and tell me if you know.......what the HECK this is? look at these pictures? 

https://www.shroomery.org/forums/upload.php?action=viewthumb


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InvisibleMad Season
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Re: DEAD Substrate? HELP [Re: Funkyou2112]
    #24032192 - 01/22/17 11:16 PM (7 years, 1 month ago)

Inky caps (coprinoids)?


--------------------
contam and car window art
How to shroomery like a pro! (Seriously, everyone read this!)
Improve your sterile techniques! (A comprehensive guide to agar)
Links upon links of literally EVERYTHING UP TO DATE

AMU Q&A
No trees were killed in the sending of this message. However, a large number of electrons were terribly inconvenienced.

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