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Kasumi
NiNja Girl



Registered: 04/01/15
Posts: 125
Last seen: 6 years, 10 months
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Pasteurising coir/verm/gypsum in regular quart jars?
#23964926 - 12/29/16 08:50 AM (7 years, 1 month ago) |
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Hi Shroomery community,
I need to pasteurise my substrate but only have regular quart jars and not wide mouth, would this be an issue when I need to pour out the substrate mixture once cooled from the cooker? I have a cotton pillow case, but no roasting bags or wide mouth quart jars
-------------------- The only thing that separates itself from 'Tao' is human ego...
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olskoolgrower
Pro Grower


Registered: 12/27/16
Posts: 57
Last seen: 6 years, 8 months
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Re: Pasteurising coir/verm/gypsum in regular quart jars? [Re: Kasumi]
#23964931 - 12/29/16 08:55 AM (7 years, 1 month ago) |
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Ive never used wide mouths to pasteurize always use my regular mouthed ones with 0 issues
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van hatton
Still a noob



Registered: 11/23/14
Posts: 5,617
Loc: Michigan
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Re: Pasteurising coir/verm/gypsum in regular quart jars? [Re: Kasumi]
#23964932 - 12/29/16 08:57 AM (7 years, 1 month ago) |
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All good I just regular mouth jars just a bit more difficult to get it out.
You can just do the bucket tek for cvg as it does not require proper pasteurization. Coir is insanely mold resistant.
-------------------- If I ever give out misinformation please inform me so I can have the correct information. Tmethyl said: Chuck Norris once roundhouse kicked a monotub that wasn't pinning fast enough. The force of the kick rearranged the genetics of the mushrooms, we now call them Penis Envy. Caps McGee said:
Fun part is figuring out what works best for you
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Kasumi
NiNja Girl



Registered: 04/01/15
Posts: 125
Last seen: 6 years, 10 months
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Re: Pasteurising coir/verm/gypsum in regular quart jars? [Re: van hatton]
#23964938 - 12/29/16 09:00 AM (7 years, 1 month ago) |
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thank you ;-)
-------------------- The only thing that separates itself from 'Tao' is human ego...
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Kasumi
NiNja Girl



Registered: 04/01/15
Posts: 125
Last seen: 6 years, 10 months
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Re: Pasteurising coir/verm/gypsum in regular quart jars? [Re: olskoolgrower]
#23964939 - 12/29/16 09:01 AM (7 years, 1 month ago) |
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cool ;-)
-------------------- The only thing that separates itself from 'Tao' is human ego...
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olskoolgrower
Pro Grower


Registered: 12/27/16
Posts: 57
Last seen: 6 years, 8 months
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Re: Pasteurising coir/verm/gypsum in regular quart jars? [Re: van hatton]
#23964945 - 12/29/16 09:03 AM (7 years, 1 month ago) |
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Quote:
van hatton said: All good I just regular mouth jars just a bit more difficult to get it out.
You can just do the bucket tek for cvg as it does not require proper pasteurization. Coir is insanely mold resistant.

Bucket tek is hit and miss.
Your best bet is proper pasteurization in quart jars like you were planning.
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enlightenment
alchemist


Registered: 08/09/09
Posts: 1,647
Loc: Europe
Last seen: 8 months, 22 days
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Re: Pasteurising coir/verm/gypsum in regular quart jars? [Re: olskoolgrower]
#23964958 - 12/29/16 09:08 AM (7 years, 1 month ago) |
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Quote:
Your best bet is proper pasteurization in quart jars like you were planning.
Not if we are talking about coir. Coir could be sterilized without problems. Coir could be boiled or whatever.
Manure, straw, soil. peat... should be proper pasteurized.
If a grow used the bucket TEK fails it mostly was caused by bad spawn.
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van hatton
Still a noob



Registered: 11/23/14
Posts: 5,617
Loc: Michigan
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Re: Pasteurising coir/verm/gypsum in regular quart jars? [Re: enlightenment]
#23964976 - 12/29/16 09:18 AM (7 years, 1 month ago) |
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You can just throw some room temp water on coir and spawn it. Pretty sure azur did that.
When you heat coir your basically making it easier for the myc to colonize .
-------------------- If I ever give out misinformation please inform me so I can have the correct information. Tmethyl said: Chuck Norris once roundhouse kicked a monotub that wasn't pinning fast enough. The force of the kick rearranged the genetics of the mushrooms, we now call them Penis Envy. Caps McGee said:
Fun part is figuring out what works best for you
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olskoolgrower
Pro Grower


Registered: 12/27/16
Posts: 57
Last seen: 6 years, 8 months
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Re: Pasteurising coir/verm/gypsum in regular quart jars? [Re: enlightenment]
#23965007 - 12/29/16 09:32 AM (7 years, 1 month ago) |
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Quote:
enlightenment said:
Quote:
Your best bet is proper pasteurization in quart jars like you were planning.
Not if we are talking about coir. Coir could be sterilized without problems. Coir could be boiled or whatever.
Manure, straw, soil. peat... should be proper pasteurized.
If a grow used the bucket TEK fails it mostly was caused by bad spawn.
You may think so but I dont. I use to use the bucket tek all the time. Then all of a sudden it stopped working for me(I havent done it in 3-4 years now) So I thought what you said about spawn being dirty. So I took 4 mono's 2 done via bucket tek and 2 done w proper pastuerization. Spawn came from the same g2g. Both bucket teks failed and the properly done ones didnt. So I thought maybe I fuct up and did something wrong. I did it over again and then again. Exact same thing happened to me. Bucket teks failed proper pasuerization worked well. 3 times the same thing. The way I figure it now is if I am going to do all this work and then get lazy at the last little bit I kinda deserve to fail. Bucket tek vs proper past doesnt take that much longer to do so why cut corners right at the end? Im thinking about trying bucket tek again and see what happens but I would suggest always properly pastuerizing any and all subs. Dont get lazy right at the end of the race...
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Kasumi
NiNja Girl



Registered: 04/01/15
Posts: 125
Last seen: 6 years, 10 months
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Re: Pasteurising coir/verm/gypsum in regular quart jars? [Re: van hatton]
#23965008 - 12/29/16 09:33 AM (7 years, 1 month ago) |
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-------------------- The only thing that separates itself from 'Tao' is human ego...
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van hatton
Still a noob



Registered: 11/23/14
Posts: 5,617
Loc: Michigan
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Re: Pasteurising coir/verm/gypsum in regular quart jars? [Re: Kasumi]
#23965055 - 12/29/16 09:51 AM (7 years, 1 month ago) |
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Was your spawn clean for every jar in the same g2g.
Bacterial spawn can cause things to go bad quickly I feel this is especially true with partial sterilization aka bucket tek.
Did you just dump water in no set amounts then spawn without bringing to field capacity. bacteria plus to wet is no good.
Not trying to be a dick just trying to understand.
-------------------- If I ever give out misinformation please inform me so I can have the correct information. Tmethyl said: Chuck Norris once roundhouse kicked a monotub that wasn't pinning fast enough. The force of the kick rearranged the genetics of the mushrooms, we now call them Penis Envy. Caps McGee said:
Fun part is figuring out what works best for you
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olskoolgrower
Pro Grower


Registered: 12/27/16
Posts: 57
Last seen: 6 years, 8 months
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Re: Pasteurising coir/verm/gypsum in regular quart jars? [Re: van hatton]
#23965082 - 12/29/16 10:03 AM (7 years, 1 month ago) |
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Quote:
van hatton said: Was your spawn clean for every jar in the same g2g.
Bacterial spawn can cause things to go bad quickly I feel this is especially true with partial sterilization aka bucket tek.
Did you just dump water in no set amounts then spawn without bringing to field capacity. bacteria plus to wet is no good.
Not trying to be a dick just trying to understand.

Same classic formula for coir that just about everyone uses 1 brick of coir 2 liters of verm 4 liters water 5 liters of spawn 4 day spawn run All 60 jars for the 3 tests I ran colonized fine with 0 issues. Im very use to bacterial contams. I highly doubt any of the jars had any. I just truly believe that any new person shouldnt cut corners with a bucket tek. Just spend the extra few minutes it takes to properly pasteurize any and all substrates. I can bring up quite a few posts by TC's saying the exact same thing. Im almost positive that RR believes that coir wont germ any contams but he will tell you the same thing properly past any and all subs.
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Mad Season
hookers and blackjack



Registered: 09/16/12
Posts: 12,666
Loc: Canada
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Re: Pasteurising coir/verm/gypsum in regular quart jars? [Re: olskoolgrower]
#23965114 - 12/29/16 10:13 AM (7 years, 1 month ago) |
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Quote:
olskoolgrower said:
Quote:
enlightenment said:
Quote:
Your best bet is proper pasteurization in quart jars like you were planning.
Not if we are talking about coir. Coir could be sterilized without problems. Coir could be boiled or whatever.
Manure, straw, soil. peat... should be proper pasteurized.
If a grow used the bucket TEK fails it mostly was caused by bad spawn.
You may think so but I dont. I use to use the bucket tek all the time. Then all of a sudden it stopped working for me(I havent done it in 3-4 years now) So I thought what you said about spawn being dirty. So I took 4 mono's 2 done via bucket tek and 2 done w proper pastuerization. Spawn came from the same g2g. Both bucket teks failed and the properly done ones didnt. So I thought maybe I fuct up and did something wrong. I did it over again and then again. Exact same thing happened to me. Bucket teks failed proper pasuerization worked well. 3 times the same thing. The way I figure it now is if I am going to do all this work and then get lazy at the last little bit I kinda deserve to fail. Bucket tek vs proper past doesnt take that much longer to do so why cut corners right at the end? Im thinking about trying bucket tek again and see what happens but I would suggest always properly pastuerizing any and all subs. Dont get lazy right at the end of the race...
You're talking about CVG right? I'm sorry but this is BS if it is CVG. You can leave coir in a bag for a fuckin year after putting it through the PC, bucket, pasteurizer, or just hydrated with absolutely no contaminations. It comes presterile. Packaged at 900°+ it can be shit on and pissed on by reptiles in reptile bedding with no contaminations.
The moment you add spawn it contaminates. This isn't a coincidence. Since coir was packaged at such a high temperature, pasteurization doesn't mean shit. Pasteurization is meant to kill bad shit off while retaining microbes. Coir has literally ZERO microbes, so even the reason why you need pasteurization normally isn't proper.
Fuck you don't even need to heat treat coir.
Quote:
Mad Season said: I've seen lots do it.
Quote:
eatyualive said: day 17. exact same time frame as treated pasteurized coir. fruits seem meatier and more dense. grain was done by cornmeal plate liquid inoculation.
From https://www.shroomery.org/forums/showflat.php/Number/22728535/fpart/1/vc/1
TL;dr work on your spawn. Just because it was g2gd from the same master doesn't mean that they were all contam free, or use the coir from pet stores meant for reptile bedding?
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olskoolgrower
Pro Grower


Registered: 12/27/16
Posts: 57
Last seen: 6 years, 8 months
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Re: Pasteurising coir/verm/gypsum in regular quart jars? [Re: Mad Season]
#23965128 - 12/29/16 10:21 AM (7 years, 1 month ago) |
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What RR has to say
I can bring up lots more posts by him and other TC's about this. Sometimes you just gotta agree to disagree.
Are you the same mad season as the vendor?
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van hatton
Still a noob



Registered: 11/23/14
Posts: 5,617
Loc: Michigan
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Re: Pasteurising coir/verm/gypsum in regular quart jars? [Re: olskoolgrower]
#23965133 - 12/29/16 10:23 AM (7 years, 1 month ago) |
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Your sub was probably too wet tbh I use 3.5 quarts of water roughly 3.4 liters~ and I still squeeze a bit out.
I do agree every noob should learn proper pasteurization it's just good practice
I have 4 trays of what I believed bacterial and had one big tub that contamed with trich after a small flush the trays on about to start a 3rd flush all done with bucket tek cvg. Most cased with properly pasteurized peat/verm. Im trying a "top layer" of cvg as a "casing layer"
-------------------- If I ever give out misinformation please inform me so I can have the correct information. Tmethyl said: Chuck Norris once roundhouse kicked a monotub that wasn't pinning fast enough. The force of the kick rearranged the genetics of the mushrooms, we now call them Penis Envy. Caps McGee said:
Fun part is figuring out what works best for you
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olskoolgrower
Pro Grower


Registered: 12/27/16
Posts: 57
Last seen: 6 years, 8 months
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Re: Pasteurising coir/verm/gypsum in regular quart jars? [Re: van hatton]
#23965140 - 12/29/16 10:25 AM (7 years, 1 month ago) |
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Quote:
van hatton said: Your sub was probably too wet tbh I use 3.5 quarts of water roughly 3.4 liters~ and I still squeeze a bit out.
I do agree every noob should learn proper pasteurization it's just good practice
I have 4 trays of what I believed bacterial and had one big tub that contamed with trich after a small flush the trays on about to start a 3rd flush all done with bucket tek cvg. Most cased with properly pasteurized peat/verm. Im trying a "top layer" of cvg as a "casing layer"

10 years ive used 4 liters with very little issues. 100's and 100's of monos....
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Mad Season
hookers and blackjack



Registered: 09/16/12
Posts: 12,666
Loc: Canada
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Re: Pasteurising coir/verm/gypsum in regular quart jars? [Re: olskoolgrower]
#23965154 - 12/29/16 10:33 AM (7 years, 1 month ago) |
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I can bring up tons of quotes too.. I've been here frequenting the forums for 10k posts lol.
Quote:
RogerRabbit said: There's not a whole lot of microbial life in dried coir to worry about, which is why it does as well when sterilized as pasteurized.
As already said it's best to let it dry back out again, and then re pasteurize.
Coir is pretty contamination resistant for the reason that fungi spores have a hard time germinating on it. I've seen wet coir in a bucket for weeks that didn't mold, but I still couldn't bring myself to use it. I had the same coir doormat on my front porch for years and it got wet every time it rained yet I never saw mold.
Mushroom mycelium doesn't do well on non-heat-treated coir. I suspect it's more the 'cooking' process than the pasteurization process however. RR
Quote:
Pastywhyte said:
Quote:
invitro said: If even a few trich spores get started when the tub is finishing, say 95% colonized for example, then the tub is in trouble and people might be better served by seriously stepping up their cleanliness practices when spawning instead of relying on coir's resistant nature.
Unless you plan to spawn your tubs in front of a flowhood, "stepping up your cleanliness practices" ain't gonna do much.
I have a Ziploc bag of coir that was bucketed 2 years ago, and shows no mold. I used to have a chameleon and would keep wet coir in his terrarium for months with no mold. Whether it is even possible for mold spores to germinate on it is moot anyway IMO, as a strong culture should be able to easily win the race to capture the nutes.
As for peoples arguments that proper pasteurization would solve this problem, I must remain skeptical. The reason pasteurization works on things like hpoo or straw is due to the beneficial bacteria remaining to help fight off the competitors. I doubt however that after the coir has been heat treated and dried, whether any beneficial bacteria would even be present. This pretty much renders pasteurization as pretty much just a means to cook the substrate, which could easily be achieved by other means.
I really feel that the root of OP's issue must be something like a non coir substance being present within the brick. Maybe a stoned worker dropped his bag of nachos or some packing straw got swept into the mix. AFAIK coir is not really a quality controlled product. IMO the solution would not necessarily be in the sub prep, but rather in strong culturing, allowing the myc to completely take over before any competitors get a chance to gain a foothold.
Quote:
Pastywhyte said: Not all bacteria is the same. Just picking up crud through handling is a) not the bacteria you're looking for, or b) even a significant quantity of bacteria. Even thermophyles are going to die by the billions during pasteurization. Only a small number comparitivly survive.
Pasteurization is a great tool. I pasteurize all the time, critical for many substrate types. But it is moot with coir. Coir doesn't even need to be heat treated either. Muda has used simply hydrated coir to spawn to and case with. Works great as casing as the myc has a harder time colonizing it.
Quote:
MudaFuka said:
Quote:
Mycologist217 said: About how much coir and Verm would I need to pasteurize to get a decent casing layer on a 66 quart tub like this? About 1/4 of a brick coir?
None. Neither coir or verm needs to be pasteurised. I don't even heat treat my coir when It is for a casing layer. Not heating coir makes it difficult for mycelium to digest. By just hydrating it you get a contam resistant casing that won't colonise as fast as heat treated coir. Theas days I usually just case with straight verm scooped right out of the bag and on to my substrate.
Quote:
Pastywhyte said: He got a girlfriend 
A vector is referring to the source of contamination. But improper pasteurization is not a vector with coir. People have not only used the bucket but also sterilized coir successfully. Hell people are even not heat treating coir at all with success, tho I don't recommend this myself.
Frank had thought the bucket was his problem early on but later he discovered a mold meshed in and riding along with most of his cultures. Once he sorted that out he pulled off a massive grow with the bucket, no issues.
The RR quote you posted is 5 years old. The one I did was 3. A lot changes in 2 years mate.
Also nah not the vendor. That was RR. I'm just a 90s grunge enthusiast .
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van hatton
Still a noob



Registered: 11/23/14
Posts: 5,617
Loc: Michigan
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Re: Pasteurising coir/verm/gypsum in regular quart jars? [Re: olskoolgrower]
#23965155 - 12/29/16 10:33 AM (7 years, 1 month ago) |
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So you've used the bucket tek for 10 years?
-------------------- If I ever give out misinformation please inform me so I can have the correct information. Tmethyl said: Chuck Norris once roundhouse kicked a monotub that wasn't pinning fast enough. The force of the kick rearranged the genetics of the mushrooms, we now call them Penis Envy. Caps McGee said:
Fun part is figuring out what works best for you
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olskoolgrower
Pro Grower


Registered: 12/27/16
Posts: 57
Last seen: 6 years, 8 months
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Re: Pasteurising coir/verm/gypsum in regular quart jars? [Re: Mad Season]
#23965206 - 12/29/16 10:49 AM (7 years, 1 month ago) |
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Quote:
van hatton said: So you've used the bucket tek for 10 years?
No ive used the same coir recipe for 10 years. Damion came out with the bucket tek 6-8 years ago when he posted it i tried it for a couple years until i started running into problems every time I spawned.Quote:
Mad Season said: The RR quote you posted is 5 years old. The one I did was 3. A lot changes in 2 years mate.
Yes and no. Nothing has really changed in the last decade for growing cubes. No major improvements whatsoever that drastically change anything. I will say it again though you really should properly past your subs. Coir shit whatever. To do all that work and then risk it over speculation is shady. Believe me i understand what past and sterilization is. I understand that coir is sterilized. Im far from new to this and i dont talk shit out of my ass. Everything I say is hard won knowledge from many failures and success's. Ive personally sterilized coir in a pc just to try out past vs sterilzation w iso's. My experiments show that past coir works better than sterilized coir. Just to let you know i have taken a brick of coir right out of the wrapper added verm and water and dumped colo's grain onto it and had a very successful mono. I just dont think its a good idea to be advertising it with all the noobs on this forum. They very well could think that is the way things are done.
I havent posted but ive trolled shroomery for over a decade. Ive been growing for over 25 years. I have a pretty good idea of what I am doing.
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mushboy
modboy



Registered: 04/24/05
Posts: 32,281
Loc: where?
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Re: Pasteurising coir/verm/gypsum in regular quart jars? [Re: olskoolgrower]
#23965211 - 12/29/16 10:51 AM (7 years, 1 month ago) |
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trolling indeed
Quote:
olskoolgrower said: past vs sterilzation w iso's.
just caught that...
wtf are you talking about??
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olskoolgrower
Pro Grower


Registered: 12/27/16
Posts: 57
Last seen: 6 years, 8 months
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Re: Pasteurising coir/verm/gypsum in regular quart jars? [Re: mushboy]
#23965218 - 12/29/16 10:53 AM (7 years, 1 month ago) |
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Quote:
mushboy said: trolling indeed
Bad choice of words you need to post to troll. Yesterday was my first post ever. Ive just always visited and read the forum
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Mad Season
hookers and blackjack



Registered: 09/16/12
Posts: 12,666
Loc: Canada
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Re: Pasteurising coir/verm/gypsum in regular quart jars? [Re: mushboy]
#23965229 - 12/29/16 10:58 AM (7 years, 1 month ago) |
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Haha no major improvements have happened in the last 10 years? 
Talk about walking all over the people's hard work on here.. and no you don't need to past a coir sub. That was also hard work figured out by the good people on here. Noobs every day use the bucket tek with success. If you don't believe them, get clean spawn and try it again.
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enlightenment
alchemist


Registered: 08/09/09
Posts: 1,647
Loc: Europe
Last seen: 8 months, 22 days
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Re: Pasteurising coir/verm/gypsum in regular quart jars? [Re: olskoolgrower]
#23965236 - 12/29/16 11:01 AM (7 years, 1 month ago) |
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Quote:
Ive been growing for over 25 years. I have a pretty good idea of what I am doing.
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mushboy
modboy



Registered: 04/24/05
Posts: 32,281
Loc: where?
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Re: Pasteurising coir/verm/gypsum in regular quart jars? [Re: enlightenment]
#23965242 - 12/29/16 11:03 AM (7 years, 1 month ago) |
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Quote:
olskoolgrower said: sterilzation w iso's.
i still wanna know what that means...
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van hatton
Still a noob



Registered: 11/23/14
Posts: 5,617
Loc: Michigan
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Re: Pasteurising coir/verm/gypsum in regular quart jars? [Re: mushboy]
#23965249 - 12/29/16 11:06 AM (7 years, 1 month ago) |
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-------------------- If I ever give out misinformation please inform me so I can have the correct information. Tmethyl said: Chuck Norris once roundhouse kicked a monotub that wasn't pinning fast enough. The force of the kick rearranged the genetics of the mushrooms, we now call them Penis Envy. Caps McGee said:
Fun part is figuring out what works best for you
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olskoolgrower
Pro Grower


Registered: 12/27/16
Posts: 57
Last seen: 6 years, 8 months
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Re: Pasteurising coir/verm/gypsum in regular quart jars? [Re: mushboy]
#23965257 - 12/29/16 11:10 AM (7 years, 1 month ago) |
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Quote:
Mad Season said: Haha no major improvements have happened in the last 10 years? 
Talk about walking all over the people's hard work on here.. and no you don't need to past a coir sub. That was also hard work figured out by the good people on here. Noobs every day use the bucket tek with success. If you don't believe them, get clean spawn and try it again.
Its been the same teks over and over and over and over and over and over and over over and over and over and over and over and over and over over and over and over and over and over and over and over over and over and over and over and over and over and over over and over and over and over and over and over and over over and over and over and over and over and over and over over and over and over and over and over and over and over over and over and over and over and over and over and over over and over and over and over and over and over and over again and again. Show me something new of substance in the last decade and ill show you its just the same or a slight change to something that has already been done. Really the only thing really new that i have seen is violet's (Who is either anne halonium or learned from her) PP5 pom tek. If you think that is a new and good tek then  Quote:
mushboy said:
Quote:
olskoolgrower said: sterilzation w iso's.
i still wanna know what that means...
What i meant is I sterilized coir in a pc and then properly pasteurized coir and ran them side by side using an isolate to see which performed better. Guess your gonna tell me that is the wrong way to test something in mycology....
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Invader Zim
Peace Love & Hippyness



Registered: 05/14/14
Posts: 387
Loc: Maritimes
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Re: Pasteurising coir/verm/gypsum in regular quart jars? [Re: olskoolgrower]
#23965280 - 12/29/16 11:21 AM (7 years, 1 month ago) |
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As already mentioned, coir really doesn't need pasteurization. I likely end up with partially sterilized coir as I heat it in a pot, probably very un-evenly. One thing I'd like to mention as I've seen it brought up in other threads before, zoo med coco coir is shit. Get Exo Terra or Cannacoir instead.
Everything went green before the first flush when I temporarily switched to zoo med coir. I left out the worm castings, tried pasteurization vs. sterilization, no visible contaminants in my spawn, etc... I lost 13 tubs in a row, fuck zoo med.
@olskoolgrower, nobody that has been growing 25 years grows in tinfoil pans like in your avatar. Look at the bottom of the pan after your grow...With the link between Alzheimer's and aluminum, I wouldn't eat them.
Edited by Invader Zim (12/29/16 11:23 AM)
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Mycolorado
Hobbyist


Registered: 07/23/16
Posts: 8,529
Loc: Interdimensional Bootcamp
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Re: Pasteurising coir/verm/gypsum in regular quart jars? [Re: Kasumi]
#23965304 - 12/29/16 11:30 AM (7 years, 1 month ago) |
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Quote:
Kasumi said: Hi Shroomery community,
I need to pasteurise my substrate but only have regular quart jars and not wide mouth, would this be an issue when I need to pour out the substrate mixture once cooled from the cooker? I have a cotton pillow case, but no roasting bags or wide mouth quart jars 
I would pasteurize in something besides jars...what a pain in the ass. If I do "bucket tek", I do it in a large pot with lid and then throw in the oven at 170F for 15min, turn off the oven and let it sit for another 15min and remove.
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Mad Season
hookers and blackjack



Registered: 09/16/12
Posts: 12,666
Loc: Canada
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Re: Pasteurising coir/verm/gypsum in regular quart jars? [Re: Invader Zim]
#23965314 - 12/29/16 11:34 AM (7 years, 1 month ago) |
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I'm not talking about the teks. I'm talking about the study of mushrooms. We've vastly changed the ideas of what's ideal for them.
Humidity is not as important as people made it out to be back then. Coir doesn't need to be pasteurized, that was within the last 5 years. Open air growing was sparse and people would be too scared to mist their subs/pins, FAE is much more important than humidity, surface hydration is where it's at, and that's just to name a few things. If you're looking for teks there's bottle tek, there's LI, there's spawn and fruiting at the same time, to name a few.
If you actually have been here on the front lines you'd have seen the stupid questions and quotes people pull from even 5 years ago. The teks don't need to be changed because they're the perfect starting tool to understand what ideal conditions are so you can grow in pretty much any environment for a very cheap price.
Besides what more teks need to be made? It's not hard. Clean spawn, good sub, a good grower, a tub, done. Beats tubes and gh's, and it beats constantly refilling humidifiers. Shit really can't get much easier.
Edited by Mad Season (12/29/16 11:42 AM)
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olskoolgrower
Pro Grower


Registered: 12/27/16
Posts: 57
Last seen: 6 years, 8 months
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Re: Pasteurising coir/verm/gypsum in regular quart jars? [Re: Mad Season]
#23965336 - 12/29/16 11:45 AM (7 years, 1 month ago) |
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Quote:
Mad Season said: I'm not talking about the teks. I'm talking about the study of mushrooms. We've vastly changed the ideas of what's ideal for them.
Humidity is not as important as people made it out to be back then. Coir doesn't need to be pasteurized, that was within the last 5 years. Open air growing was sparse and people would be too scared to mist their subs, FAE is much more important than humidity, surface hydration is where it's at, and that's just to name a few things. If you're looking for teks there's bottle tek, there's LI, there's spawn and fruiting at the same time, to name a few.
If you actually have been here on the front lines you'd have seen the stupid questions and quotes people pull from even 5 years ago. The teks don't need to be changed because they're the perfect starting tool to understand what ideal conditions are so you can grow in pretty much any environment.
Besides what more teks need to be made? It's not hard. Clean spawn, good sub, a good grower, done.
Yes I agree with you that our understanding of mushrooms has changed alot but that hasnt trickled over into the grow yet. Not alot has changed since TMC was written 30 years ago. Things have improved but not really any changes have been made with this new knowledge. Ok we soak and boil our grain before sterilizing instead of adding dry grain and water into your jar then pc'ing but really thats just an improvement on the same idea. LI? liquid inoculant? Dont tell me thats annes idea again of an agar slurry used to innocluate? 
Its all just slight variations of the same thing.
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Mad Season
hookers and blackjack



Registered: 09/16/12
Posts: 12,666
Loc: Canada
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Re: Pasteurising coir/verm/gypsum in regular quart jars? [Re: olskoolgrower]
#23965397 - 12/29/16 12:11 PM (7 years, 1 month ago) |
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Well it was these slight variations that made us understand them more, and there's still more work to be done on the study of them. The teks haven't changed because they were made for high FAE in mind, and with almost no cost. When designing them they actually noticed better growth with more fae than humidity and for some reason that really didn't translate to higher fae is better until more recent years for some reason. RR actually made the SGFC with 3/8" holes and noticed better fruiting, but decided on 1/4" holes so people don't need to mist as much. Nothing really beats a tub lol. Idk what could possibly be cheaper and better than tubs tbh. You could drill holes in many different places just fine, and you can even still grow like a boss without drilling any holes.
But besides all this, you are correct too that the teks themselves haven't changed much.
Anyways for you and for the OP, try the bucket tek, literally thousands of people use it every single day with no issues. It can't just be a coincidence.
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mushboy
modboy



Registered: 04/24/05
Posts: 32,281
Loc: where?
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Re: Pasteurising coir/verm/gypsum in regular quart jars? [Re: olskoolgrower]
#23965441 - 12/29/16 12:36 PM (7 years, 1 month ago) |
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olskoolgrower said: What i meant is I sterilized coir in a pc and then properly pasteurized coir and ran them side by side using an isolate to see which performed better. Guess your gonna tell me that is the wrong way to test something in mycology....
people do not usually abrivate a word like 'isolate' when iso's is 2 chars shorter then isolate ...anyway usually it means isopropyl alcohol. you made it seem like you sterilized cvg with iso.
you are rather touchie for someone whos been doing this for years n years. the mushrooms should of cured you of that by now.
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olskoolgrower
Pro Grower


Registered: 12/27/16
Posts: 57
Last seen: 6 years, 8 months
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Re: Pasteurising coir/verm/gypsum in regular quart jars? [Re: mushboy]
#23965499 - 12/29/16 12:59 PM (7 years, 1 month ago) |
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Quote:
Mad Season said: without drilling any holes.
This is the way ive done mono's for about 6 years now. I got so sick of holes and poly that I just said fuck it and grew with out them. Well its almost the same. I dont bother with a liner. Im glad you showed me this cause I was about to rewrite this tek cause i hadnt seen anyone else do it.
Quote:
mushboy said:
Quote:
olskoolgrower said: What i meant is I sterilized coir in a pc and then properly pasteurized coir and ran them side by side using an isolate to see which performed better. Guess your gonna tell me that is the wrong way to test something in mycology....
people do not usually abrivate a word like 'isolate' when iso's is 2 chars shorter then isolate ...anyway usually it means isopropyl alcohol. you made it seem like you sterilized cvg with iso.
you are rather touchie for someone whos been doing this for years n years. the mushrooms should of cured you of that by now.
Years ago iso was used commonly as an abbreviation for isolate 
I didnt think i was getting touchy
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Mad Season
hookers and blackjack



Registered: 09/16/12
Posts: 12,666
Loc: Canada
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Re: Pasteurising coir/verm/gypsum in regular quart jars? [Re: olskoolgrower]
#23965515 - 12/29/16 01:05 PM (7 years, 1 month ago) |
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Yeah I don't grow with a liner too. It's all about the surface conditions haha.
I'm not sure why the OPs post got deleted but 4 1" holes on a 20 qt tub is plenty, as long as there's 2 on the bottom near the surface of the substrate, and 2 on the top. It's more about dialing it in than the holes tbh
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Kasumi
NiNja Girl



Registered: 04/01/15
Posts: 125
Last seen: 6 years, 10 months
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Re: Pasteurising coir/verm/gypsum in regular quart jars? [Re: Mad Season]
#23965522 - 12/29/16 01:08 PM (7 years, 1 month ago) |
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thank you ! I thought it might be too many holes and affect the grow, I deleted it just because it seemed silly to post my query in the wrong topic, did not realise it had been seen :-D
-------------------- The only thing that separates itself from 'Tao' is human ego...
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