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OfflineKasumi
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Pasteurising coir/verm/gypsum in regular quart jars?
    #23964926 - 12/29/16 08:50 AM (7 years, 1 month ago)

Hi Shroomery community,

I need to pasteurise my substrate but only have regular quart jars and not wide mouth, would this be an issue when I need to pour out the substrate mixture once cooled from the cooker? I have a cotton pillow case, but no roasting bags or wide mouth quart jars :undecided:


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The only thing that separates itself from 'Tao' is human ego... :mushroom2:


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Offlineolskoolgrower
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Re: Pasteurising coir/verm/gypsum in regular quart jars? [Re: Kasumi]
    #23964931 - 12/29/16 08:55 AM (7 years, 1 month ago)

Ive never used wide mouths to pasteurize always use my regular mouthed ones with 0 issues


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Invisiblevan hattonFacebookDiscord
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Re: Pasteurising coir/verm/gypsum in regular quart jars? [Re: Kasumi]
    #23964932 - 12/29/16 08:57 AM (7 years, 1 month ago)

All good I just regular mouth jars just a bit more difficult to get it out.

You can just do the bucket tek for cvg as it does not require proper pasteurization. Coir is insanely mold resistant.

:cheers:


--------------------
If I ever give out misinformation please inform me so I can have the correct information. :cheers:

Tmethyl said:
Chuck Norris once roundhouse kicked a monotub that wasn't pinning fast enough. The force of the kick rearranged the genetics of the mushrooms, we now call them Penis Envy.

Caps McGee said:
:thumbsup:
Fun part is figuring out what works best for you


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OfflineKasumi
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Re: Pasteurising coir/verm/gypsum in regular quart jars? [Re: van hatton]
    #23964938 - 12/29/16 09:00 AM (7 years, 1 month ago)

thank you ;-)


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The only thing that separates itself from 'Tao' is human ego... :mushroom2:


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OfflineKasumi
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Re: Pasteurising coir/verm/gypsum in regular quart jars? [Re: olskoolgrower]
    #23964939 - 12/29/16 09:01 AM (7 years, 1 month ago)

cool ;-)


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Offlineolskoolgrower
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Re: Pasteurising coir/verm/gypsum in regular quart jars? [Re: van hatton]
    #23964945 - 12/29/16 09:03 AM (7 years, 1 month ago)

Quote:

van hatton said:
All good I just regular mouth jars just a bit more difficult to get it out.

You can just do the bucket tek for cvg as it does not require proper pasteurization. Coir is insanely mold resistant.

:cheers:



Bucket tek is hit and miss.

Your best bet is proper pasteurization in quart jars like you were planning.


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Offlineenlightenment
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Re: Pasteurising coir/verm/gypsum in regular quart jars? [Re: olskoolgrower]
    #23964958 - 12/29/16 09:08 AM (7 years, 1 month ago)

Quote:


Your best bet is proper pasteurization in quart jars like you were planning.




Not if we are talking about coir. Coir could be sterilized without problems. Coir could be boiled or whatever.

Manure, straw, soil. peat... should be proper pasteurized.

If a grow used the bucket TEK fails it mostly was caused by bad spawn.


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Invisiblevan hattonFacebookDiscord
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Re: Pasteurising coir/verm/gypsum in regular quart jars? [Re: enlightenment]
    #23964976 - 12/29/16 09:18 AM (7 years, 1 month ago)

:whathesaid:

You can just throw some room temp water on coir and spawn it. Pretty sure azur did that.

When you heat coir your basically making it easier for the myc to colonize .

:cheers:


--------------------
If I ever give out misinformation please inform me so I can have the correct information. :cheers:

Tmethyl said:
Chuck Norris once roundhouse kicked a monotub that wasn't pinning fast enough. The force of the kick rearranged the genetics of the mushrooms, we now call them Penis Envy.

Caps McGee said:
:thumbsup:
Fun part is figuring out what works best for you


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Offlineolskoolgrower
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Re: Pasteurising coir/verm/gypsum in regular quart jars? [Re: enlightenment]
    #23965007 - 12/29/16 09:32 AM (7 years, 1 month ago)

Quote:

enlightenment said:
Quote:


Your best bet is proper pasteurization in quart jars like you were planning.




Not if we are talking about coir. Coir could be sterilized without problems. Coir could be boiled or whatever.

Manure, straw, soil. peat... should be proper pasteurized.

If a grow used the bucket TEK fails it mostly was caused by bad spawn.



You may think so but I dont.  I use to use the bucket tek all the time.  Then all of a sudden it stopped working for me(I havent done it in 3-4 years now)  So I thought what you said about spawn being dirty.  So I took 4 mono's 2 done via bucket tek and 2 done w proper pastuerization.  Spawn came from the same g2g.  Both bucket teks failed and the properly done ones didnt.  So I thought maybe I fuct up and did something wrong.  I did it over again and then again.  Exact same thing happened to me.  Bucket teks failed proper pasuerization worked well.  3 times the same thing.  The way I figure it now is if I am going to do all this work and then get lazy at the last little bit I kinda deserve to fail.  Bucket tek vs proper past doesnt take that much longer to do so why cut corners right at the end?  Im thinking about trying bucket tek again and see what happens but I would suggest always properly pastuerizing any and all subs.  Dont get lazy right at the end of the race...


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OfflineKasumi
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Re: Pasteurising coir/verm/gypsum in regular quart jars? [Re: van hatton]
    #23965008 - 12/29/16 09:33 AM (7 years, 1 month ago)

:takingnotes:


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Invisiblevan hattonFacebookDiscord
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Re: Pasteurising coir/verm/gypsum in regular quart jars? [Re: Kasumi]
    #23965055 - 12/29/16 09:51 AM (7 years, 1 month ago)

Was your spawn clean for every jar in the same g2g. 

Bacterial spawn can cause things to go bad quickly I feel this is especially true with partial sterilization aka bucket tek.

Did you just dump water in no set amounts then spawn without bringing to field capacity. bacteria plus to wet is no good.

Not trying to be a dick just trying to understand.

:cheers:


--------------------
If I ever give out misinformation please inform me so I can have the correct information. :cheers:

Tmethyl said:
Chuck Norris once roundhouse kicked a monotub that wasn't pinning fast enough. The force of the kick rearranged the genetics of the mushrooms, we now call them Penis Envy.

Caps McGee said:
:thumbsup:
Fun part is figuring out what works best for you


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Offlineolskoolgrower
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Registered: 12/27/16
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Re: Pasteurising coir/verm/gypsum in regular quart jars? [Re: van hatton]
    #23965082 - 12/29/16 10:03 AM (7 years, 1 month ago)

Quote:

van hatton said:
Was your spawn clean for every jar in the same g2g. 

Bacterial spawn can cause things to go bad quickly I feel this is especially true with partial sterilization aka bucket tek.

Did you just dump water in no set amounts then spawn without bringing to field capacity. bacteria plus to wet is no good.

Not trying to be a dick just trying to understand.

:cheers:



Same classic formula for coir that just about everyone uses
1 brick of coir
2 liters of verm
4 liters water
5 liters of spawn
4 day spawn run
All 60 jars for the 3 tests I ran colonized fine with 0 issues.
Im very use to bacterial contams. I highly doubt any of the jars had any.  I just truly believe that any new person shouldnt cut corners with a bucket tek.  Just spend the extra few minutes it takes to properly pasteurize any and all substrates.  I can bring up quite a few posts by TC's saying the exact same thing.  Im almost positive that RR believes that coir wont germ any contams but he will tell you the same thing properly past any and all subs.


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InvisibleMad Season
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Re: Pasteurising coir/verm/gypsum in regular quart jars? [Re: olskoolgrower]
    #23965114 - 12/29/16 10:13 AM (7 years, 1 month ago)

Quote:

olskoolgrower said:
Quote:

enlightenment said:
Quote:


Your best bet is proper pasteurization in quart jars like you were planning.




Not if we are talking about coir. Coir could be sterilized without problems. Coir could be boiled or whatever.

Manure, straw, soil. peat... should be proper pasteurized.

If a grow used the bucket TEK fails it mostly was caused by bad spawn.



You may think so but I dont.  I use to use the bucket tek all the time.  Then all of a sudden it stopped working for me(I havent done it in 3-4 years now)  So I thought what you said about spawn being dirty.  So I took 4 mono's 2 done via bucket tek and 2 done w proper pastuerization.  Spawn came from the same g2g.  Both bucket teks failed and the properly done ones didnt.  So I thought maybe I fuct up and did something wrong.  I did it over again and then again.  Exact same thing happened to me.  Bucket teks failed proper pasuerization worked well.  3 times the same thing.  The way I figure it now is if I am going to do all this work and then get lazy at the last little bit I kinda deserve to fail.  Bucket tek vs proper past doesnt take that much longer to do so why cut corners right at the end?  Im thinking about trying bucket tek again and see what happens but I would suggest always properly pastuerizing any and all subs.  Dont get lazy right at the end of the race...



You're talking about CVG right? I'm sorry but this is BS if it is CVG. You can leave coir in a bag for a fuckin year after putting it through the PC, bucket, pasteurizer, or just hydrated with absolutely no contaminations. It comes presterile. Packaged at 900°+ it can be shit on and pissed on by reptiles in reptile bedding with no contaminations.

The moment you add spawn it contaminates. This isn't a coincidence. Since coir was packaged at such a high temperature, pasteurization doesn't mean shit. Pasteurization is meant to kill bad shit off while retaining microbes. Coir has literally ZERO microbes, so even the reason why you need pasteurization normally isn't proper.

Fuck you don't even need to heat treat coir.

Quote:

Mad Season said:
I've seen lots do it.

Quote:

eatyualive said:
day 17. exact same time frame as treated pasteurized coir. fruits seem meatier and more dense. grain was done by cornmeal plate liquid inoculation.






From https://www.shroomery.org/forums/showflat.php/Number/22728535/fpart/1/vc/1




TL;dr work on your spawn. Just because it was g2gd from the same master doesn't mean that they were all contam free, or use the coir from pet stores meant for reptile bedding?


--------------------
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Offlineolskoolgrower
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Re: Pasteurising coir/verm/gypsum in regular quart jars? [Re: Mad Season]
    #23965128 - 12/29/16 10:21 AM (7 years, 1 month ago)

What RR has to say

I can bring up lots more posts by him and other TC's about this.  Sometimes you just gotta agree to disagree.

Are you the same mad season as the vendor?


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Invisiblevan hattonFacebookDiscord
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Re: Pasteurising coir/verm/gypsum in regular quart jars? [Re: olskoolgrower]
    #23965133 - 12/29/16 10:23 AM (7 years, 1 month ago)

Your sub was probably too wet tbh I use 3.5 quarts of water roughly 3.4 liters~ and I still squeeze a bit out.

I do agree every noob should learn proper pasteurization it's just good practice

I have 4 trays of what I believed bacterial and had one big tub that contamed with trich after a small flush the trays on about to start a 3rd flush :shrug: all done with bucket tek cvg. Most cased with properly pasteurized peat/verm. Im trying a "top layer" of cvg as a "casing layer"

:cheers:


--------------------
If I ever give out misinformation please inform me so I can have the correct information. :cheers:

Tmethyl said:
Chuck Norris once roundhouse kicked a monotub that wasn't pinning fast enough. The force of the kick rearranged the genetics of the mushrooms, we now call them Penis Envy.

Caps McGee said:
:thumbsup:
Fun part is figuring out what works best for you


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Offlineolskoolgrower
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Re: Pasteurising coir/verm/gypsum in regular quart jars? [Re: van hatton]
    #23965140 - 12/29/16 10:25 AM (7 years, 1 month ago)

Quote:

van hatton said:
Your sub was probably too wet tbh I use 3.5 quarts of water roughly 3.4 liters~ and I still squeeze a bit out.

I do agree every noob should learn proper pasteurization it's just good practice

I have 4 trays of what I believed bacterial and had one big tub that contamed with trich after a small flush the trays on about to start a 3rd flush :shrug: all done with bucket tek cvg. Most cased with properly pasteurized peat/verm. Im trying a "top layer" of cvg as a "casing layer"

:cheers:



10 years ive used 4 liters with very little issues. 100's and 100's of monos....


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InvisibleMad Season
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Re: Pasteurising coir/verm/gypsum in regular quart jars? [Re: olskoolgrower]
    #23965154 - 12/29/16 10:33 AM (7 years, 1 month ago)

I can bring up tons of quotes too.. I've been here frequenting the forums for 10k posts lol.
Quote:

RogerRabbit said:
There's not a whole lot of microbial life in dried coir to worry about, which is why it does as well when sterilized as pasteurized.

As already said it's best to let it dry back out again, and then re pasteurize.

Coir is pretty contamination resistant for the reason that fungi spores have a hard time germinating on it.  I've seen wet coir in a bucket for weeks that didn't mold, but I still couldn't bring myself to use it.  I had the same coir doormat on my front porch for years and it got wet every time it rained yet I never saw mold.

Mushroom mycelium doesn't do well on non-heat-treated coir.  I suspect it's more the 'cooking' process than the pasteurization process however.
RR



Quote:

Pastywhyte said:
Quote:

invitro said:
If even a few trich spores get started when the tub is finishing, say 95% colonized for example, then the tub is in trouble and people might be better served by seriously stepping up their cleanliness practices when spawning instead of relying on coir's resistant nature.




Unless you plan to spawn your tubs in front of a flowhood, "stepping up your cleanliness practices" ain't gonna do much.

I have a Ziploc bag of coir that was bucketed 2 years ago, and shows no mold. I used to have a chameleon and would keep wet coir in his terrarium for months with no mold. Whether it is even possible for mold spores to germinate on it is moot anyway IMO, as a strong culture should be able to easily win the race to capture the nutes.

As for peoples arguments that proper pasteurization would solve this problem, I must remain skeptical. The reason pasteurization works on things like hpoo or straw is due to the beneficial bacteria remaining to help fight off the competitors. I doubt however that after the coir has been heat treated and dried, whether any beneficial bacteria would even be present. This pretty much renders pasteurization as pretty much just a means to cook the substrate, which could easily be achieved by other means.

I really feel that the root of OP's issue must be something like a non coir substance being present within the brick. Maybe a stoned worker dropped his bag of nachos or some packing straw got swept into the mix. AFAIK coir is not really a quality controlled product. IMO the solution would not necessarily be in the sub prep, but rather in strong culturing, allowing the myc to completely take over before any competitors get a chance to gain a foothold.



Quote:

Pastywhyte said:
Not all bacteria is the same. Just picking up crud through handling is a) not the bacteria you're looking for, or b) even a significant quantity of bacteria. Even thermophyles are going to die by the billions during pasteurization. Only a small number comparitivly survive.

Pasteurization is a great tool. I pasteurize all the time, critical for many substrate types. But it is moot with coir. Coir doesn't even need to be heat treated either. Muda has used simply hydrated coir to spawn to and case with. Works great as casing as the myc has a harder time colonizing it.



Quote:

MudaFuka said:
Quote:

Mycologist217 said:
About how much coir and Verm would I need to pasteurize to get a decent casing layer on a 66 quart tub like this? About 1/4 of a brick coir?



None. Neither coir or verm needs to be pasteurised.  I don't even heat treat my coir when It is for a casing layer. Not heating coir makes it difficult for mycelium to digest. By just hydrating it you get a contam resistant casing that won't colonise as fast as heat treated coir. Theas days I usually just case with straight verm scooped right out of the bag and on to my substrate.



Quote:

Pastywhyte said:
He got a girlfriend :lol:

A vector is referring to the source of contamination. But improper pasteurization is not a vector with coir. People have not only used the bucket but also sterilized coir successfully. Hell people are even not heat treating coir at all with success, tho I don't recommend this myself.

Frank had thought the bucket was his problem early on but later he discovered a mold meshed in and riding along with most of his cultures. Once he sorted that out he pulled off a massive grow with the bucket, no issues.



The RR quote you posted is 5 years old. The one I did was 3. A lot changes in 2 years mate.


Also nah not the vendor. That was RR. I'm just a 90s grunge enthusiast :wink:.


--------------------
contam and car window art
How to shroomery like a pro! (Seriously, everyone read this!)
Improve your sterile techniques! (A comprehensive guide to agar)
Links upon links of literally EVERYTHING UP TO DATE

AMU Q&A
No trees were killed in the sending of this message. However, a large number of electrons were terribly inconvenienced.


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Invisiblevan hattonFacebookDiscord
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Re: Pasteurising coir/verm/gypsum in regular quart jars? [Re: olskoolgrower]
    #23965155 - 12/29/16 10:33 AM (7 years, 1 month ago)

So you've used the bucket tek for 10 years?


--------------------
If I ever give out misinformation please inform me so I can have the correct information. :cheers:

Tmethyl said:
Chuck Norris once roundhouse kicked a monotub that wasn't pinning fast enough. The force of the kick rearranged the genetics of the mushrooms, we now call them Penis Envy.

Caps McGee said:
:thumbsup:
Fun part is figuring out what works best for you


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Offlineolskoolgrower
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Re: Pasteurising coir/verm/gypsum in regular quart jars? [Re: Mad Season]
    #23965206 - 12/29/16 10:49 AM (7 years, 1 month ago)

Quote:

van hatton said:
So you've used the bucket tek for 10 years?



No ive used the same coir recipe for 10 years.  Damion came out with the bucket tek 6-8 years ago when he posted it i tried it for a couple years until i started running into problems every time I spawned.
Quote:

Mad Season said:
The RR quote you posted is 5 years old. The one I did was 3. A lot changes in 2 years mate.





Yes and no.  Nothing has really changed in the last decade for growing cubes.  No major improvements whatsoever that drastically change anything.  I will say it again though you really should properly past your subs.  Coir shit whatever.  To do all that work and then risk it over speculation is shady.  Believe me i understand what past and sterilization is.  I understand that coir is sterilized.  Im far from new to this and i dont talk shit out of my ass.  Everything I say is hard won knowledge from many failures and success's.  Ive personally sterilized coir in a pc just to try out past vs sterilzation w iso's.  My experiments show that past coir works better than sterilized coir.  Just to let you know i have taken a brick of coir right out of the wrapper added verm and water and dumped colo's grain onto it and had a very successful mono.  I just dont think its a good idea to be advertising it with all the noobs on this forum.  They very well could think that is the way things are done.

I havent posted but ive trolled shroomery for over a decade.  Ive been growing for over 25 years.  I have a pretty good idea of what I am doing.


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InvisiblemushboyMDiscord
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Re: Pasteurising coir/verm/gypsum in regular quart jars? [Re: olskoolgrower]
    #23965211 - 12/29/16 10:51 AM (7 years, 1 month ago)

trolling indeed

Quote:

olskoolgrower said:
past vs sterilzation w iso's. 




just caught that...

wtf are you talking about??


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