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Transgenderism Is Based on Rigid Gender Roles 3
#23961394 - 12/27/16 09:11 PM (7 years, 1 month ago) |
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The transgender phenomena highlights how rigid gender roles are in the western world. If a male adopts customs common among females that male could get classified as being a female and in that case he could undergo gender reassignment treatments.
If there was gender fluidity in the western world we wouldn't classify males who practice female customs as being actual females. We would just assume they are males who are expressing their masculinity in an unorthodox way.
The transgender phenomena highlights the rigidity of gender identity in the western world. People in the western world are very rigid in saying "these behaviors are male and these behaviors are female and if you are a male and you behave outside the behaviors designated as male then you must be female". That is the most rigid thinking when it comes to gender.
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blingbling
what you chicken stew?

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Re: Transgenderism Is Based on Rigid Gender Roles [Re: lines]
#23961401 - 12/27/16 09:19 PM (7 years, 1 month ago) |
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In western societies there is developing a culture around gender norms which is both promising and frightening.
It frightening that some people want to have people fired for not using the correct gender pronouns even though there are now dozens, which is ridiculous to ask the average person to live up to considering most people don't even know what a gender pronoun is.
It is promising because as we develop new gender identities it opens a space for new gender expressions, but my hope is that this does not kill the gender binary of man and women, but instead strengthens it by showing that those gender identities which exist outside man and woman show that the category of man and woman are real in the sense that there would be no breaking out of the gender binary if the gender binary did not in actual fact exist.
-------------------- Kupo said: let's fuel the robots with psilocybin. cez said: everyone should smoke dmt for religion. dustinthewind13 said: euthanasia and prostitution should be legal and located in the same building. White Beard said: if you see the buddha on the road, rape him, then kill him. then rape him again.
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AllGreyThumbs
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Re: Transgenderism Is Based on Rigid Gender Roles [Re: blingbling]
#23962246 - 12/28/16 09:21 AM (7 years, 1 month ago) |
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I think there is some amount of repression of feminine aspects in men. We are always expected to be hard and unemotional. This limits our ability to explore certain feeling and states of mind. When allowed to build up might eventually result in outbursts of feminine emotional expression. For example, does a man who secretly wears dresses really want to be a female, or is it just an outlet for the "feminine" feelings that are repressed in every day life?
If buried deep enough and let go long enough, these repressed emotions might even begin to confuse the individual themselves. For example someone might begin to think they could be gay because feminine feeling sometimes bubble up inside them. This can in turn lead to even more repression of the softer side of the emotional spectrum, further compounding the problem.
I thought a lot about this stuff while tripping one time. I kept seeing pinks and purples, and feeling kind of feminine. Being well trained in tripping protocols I never even considered fighting these feelings and allowed them to unfold naturally. I figured even if I was somehow secretely gay, I'd rather know that repress it.
The more I played with these feelings the more I came to realize that this was just an emotional rebalancing. Even though I would never try to act a certain way or repress something within myself, social situations always forced me into a masculine role. Men are just expected to interact in certain usually harder and less emotional ways.
All in all, playing with a wider spectrum of feeling was a nice experience but it only made me more certain of my orientation as a straight male. In fact it now seems to me like a lot of the male to female attraction is because we are drawn to the femininity we usally lack in our life experience. A woman completes us because we crave a little bit more of the softer side.
While this experience was actually on a combo of 1P and ETH-LAD it shed some insight into the notion that "shrooms make you gay." It seems like by digging up and exploring our represed or under utilized feminine side it can leave us more comelete and therefore less drawn to femininity in our lives. We don't feel as powerfully drawn to women because we don't need them to fill out our missing peices.
In fact, while not at all attracted to men, I'm actually quite a bit less attracted to women than most of my male peers. I'm quite ok with this and find excessive attraction to women to be somewhat painful. It is like a deep ache within myself. It hurts to see an attractive girl that you know you'll never know or interact deeply with.
The obvious and culturally expected response would be to use women to relieve the ache. I've learned that instead of trying to get laid, this kind of longing just means that I need to emotionally rebalance a little bit. Usually this merely means loosening up and allowing myself to be more emotionally free and expressive. Before long I can think straight again and get back to seeing women as complex human beings an not just places to stick dicks.
Of course I still enjoy sex. I'm married and we actually have a lot of fun sometimes. However I don't feel as much of a need for sex or feminine companionship. I'm also much more comfortable and patient, less desperately needy. Because of this I actually perform a lot better, and can explore more sensually than I did as a yonger and more horny guy.
So I guess to address the subject at hand, I do think that rigid gender roles can definitely play a part in gender indentity confusion or exploration of alternative roles.
It may not be the only factor, for example I suspect that there can be more intellectual self idetification issues at work. People might be trying more logically and less emotionally to define themselves and figure out how they fit into life. This would have less to do with what is expected of males and female, and more like saying, "This is who I am." Like a tattoo, gender roles can be a statement of how we see ourselves.
In fact I think some people who experiment with sexual orientation and gender identity may be struggling with larger issues of self identification. They are desperately trying to figure out how they fit into life. A new sex, or sexual orientation can be an experiment to see if they feel better and life makes more sense.
Of course those experiments may or may not actually take them closer to where then need to be, which I sincerly hope everyone understands before getting surgeries and starting hormones. Many people end up regretting tattoos born out of a youthful identity crisis. I hope nobody every regrets cutting of their penis.
Any, back on subject. I suppose you might on to something.
-------------------- I only use drugs medicinally. If I don't my knees hurt from kneeling down.
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Re: Transgenderism Is Based on Rigid Gender Roles [Re: AllGreyThumbs]
#23962487 - 12/28/16 11:06 AM (7 years, 1 month ago) |
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Quote:
AllGreyThumbs said: If buried deep enough and let go long enough, these repressed emotions might even begin to confuse the individual themselves. For example someone might begin to think they could be gay because feminine feeling sometimes bubble up inside them. This can in turn lead to even more repression of the softer side of the emotional spectrum, further compounding the problem.
I know of one case where a artistic male was repeatedly told he was gay as he was going through school and at first he denied being gay but after a couple of years he started to identify as gay.
I don't think that "feminine mannerisms" in men necessarily mean those men are gay or trans, I just think there is more to masculinity than many people seem to recognize.
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AllGreyThumbs
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Re: Transgenderism Is Based on Rigid Gender Roles [Re: lines] 3
#23962531 - 12/28/16 11:28 AM (7 years, 1 month ago) |
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Men are capable of vastly more emotional range and openess that is normal acceptable in social interactions. For example I have always worked in heavy industry, a very traditional cultural subset. Pretty much the only way men communicate is via jest and banter. Everything is said as a pseudo-joke or "busting somone's balls."
I've studied the phenomenon and it is clearly a defense mechanism. It allows someone to ineract without emotional commitment. You can say anything you want without exposing yourself emotionally because everything is potential a joke and not to be taken seriously.
For example if you were concerned about someone you wouldn't simply ask them if everything is ok. Instead you would say, "You look like shit. You up banging the old lady all night or something?"
In this way you are protected. Maybe you are misunderstanding something about the situation. Maybe the guys doesn't care to talk. In any case you haven't completely committed to a position of concern. If he doesn't care to talk, he can just banter back some nonsense. Then you can make a joke and back out of the interaction. Nobody has to expose their true feelings. Everything is always protected under the guise of humor. Whatever you say, you can argue that you didn't really mean, since it was just a joke.
It's actually quite amazing to watch. Almost every single communication done through this whimsical banter. The more serious an issue or subject, the deeper it get buried in the jest.
Just another example of how men aren't really permitted to be emotionally open. I'm sure there are similar forms of self protection for woman to woman interactions, though in a way women seem to be allowed more room to talk about how they really feel.
-------------------- I only use drugs medicinally. If I don't my knees hurt from kneeling down.
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blingbling
what you chicken stew?

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Re: Transgenderism Is Based on Rigid Gender Roles [Re: AllGreyThumbs]
#23962755 - 12/28/16 01:15 PM (7 years, 1 month ago) |
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True identification with a gender role i.e. being true to yourself as existing in a gender role, should encompass the doubt that you are actually living up to the gender role designated for you. e.g. I walk into the male bathroom, but I secretly wonder whether I really am a man, this experience is totally consistent with actually being a man. If one doesn't come to terms with this doubt then they actually start acting outside of the designated gender role e.g. you call your buddy a little girl and he flips out, loses control, which is very unmanly, precisely because you is not comfortable with his own doubt about his gender role.
-------------------- Kupo said: let's fuel the robots with psilocybin. cez said: everyone should smoke dmt for religion. dustinthewind13 said: euthanasia and prostitution should be legal and located in the same building. White Beard said: if you see the buddha on the road, rape him, then kill him. then rape him again.
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virtuous_babe
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Re: Transgenderism Is Based on Rigid Gender Roles [Re: lines]
#23974433 - 01/01/17 10:25 PM (7 years, 28 days ago) |
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the way i see it the "transgender" identity wouldn't need to exist if society saw gender as a wide, fluid spectrum of identities with no clear definitions. You could just openly express your gender as you wanted without questions or categorization or judgement.
-------------------- all that may be wished for will by nature fade to nothing
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RJ Tubs 202


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Re: Transgenderism Is Based on Rigid Gender Roles [Re: AllGreyThumbs]
#23974689 - 01/02/17 12:21 AM (7 years, 28 days ago) |
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Quote:
AllGreyThumbs said:
I think there is some amount of repression of feminine aspects in men. We are always expected to be hard and unemotional.
Yeah. For example, the emotionally sensitive boy in school is teased by the jocks and called "gay" or "sissy"
Is it possible some transgenders experience extreme self-loathing about their gender, and experience less self-hatred when they adopt the appearance and role of the other gender?
Might seem unrelated but I've heard lesbians say, "I don't like dick" but never "I prefer pussy"
I wonder if self-hatred & repulsion can play more of a role than "finding oneself", regarding gender preference and identification.
or maybe I'm nuts . . .
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blingbling
what you chicken stew?

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Re: Transgenderism Is Based on Rigid Gender Roles [Re: virtuous_babe]
#23974907 - 01/02/17 02:39 AM (7 years, 28 days ago) |
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Quote:
virtuous_babe said: the way i see it the "transgender" identity wouldn't need to exist if society saw gender as a wide, fluid spectrum of identities with no clear definitions. You could just openly express your gender as you wanted without questions or categorization or judgement.
I think the concept of gender categories has merit. I would like to see a 3 gender system adopted: male, female and transgender. A "fluid spectrum of identities with no clear definitions" would alienate the majority of people on the planet.
-------------------- Kupo said: let's fuel the robots with psilocybin. cez said: everyone should smoke dmt for religion. dustinthewind13 said: euthanasia and prostitution should be legal and located in the same building. White Beard said: if you see the buddha on the road, rape him, then kill him. then rape him again.
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LRG
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Re: Transgenderism Is Based on Rigid Gender Roles [Re: blingbling]
#23975115 - 01/02/17 06:08 AM (7 years, 28 days ago) |
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I think it's pretty simple really. Are you XX or XY? If you're XX, you're a woman. If you're XY, you're a male. Don't be offended because by every scientific conclusion made possible reveals that you are what you are.
I could care less about the whole transgender thing. Don't be offended if I say "Yea, well you're still a fucking guy or woman."
Men don't have a womb and can't bear children. Therefore, if you can't give birth you're not a fucking woman.
Women can't create semen because they don't have testicles. Therefore, if you can't get a woman pregnant you're not a fucking man.
You can adopt all the customs you want, chop your dick off, and take a shit in the woman's bathroom. It doesn't change the fact that you still chopped your dick, so you were in fact born a man. Probably an unpopular opinion, but it's a simple way to look at things. If you want to be a woman... great. Who wouldn't want to be a woman without a period? I think every woman on earth might agree to that.
I personally don't like the liberalism that has infiltrated western culture. If someone wants to say that Caitlyn Jenner is in fact still a dude with fake tits and has an inside out hotdog in her pants they should be allowed to say it. Maybe not like that because you know, liberalism. You'd get crucified if you did.
Liberal America is ignorant to pretty much anyone who thinks differently than they do. Equal rights? Yes, everyone should have equal rights of course. Do I have to call Caitlyn Jenner a woman even though I believe her to be a man? No, I don't, but these people prey upon people with different beliefs than theirs and attack them in very ugly ways. They are no better than the people on the other side with all that ugliness towards transgender people.
It is honestly, inhibiting people's freedom of speech, which is wrong and one side is beginning to realize what they've done and are on a rampage with stuffing it down everyone's throat. That's really the only thing I dislike about this whole situation.
You can claim to be a man and be a woman, vice versa, whatever. I don't care. Just don't expect someone to change their beliefs for you because you want to feel accepted and beautiful. Accept who you are, know that you are beautiful, and be happy. Fuck everyone else you shouldn't need to change anyone's opinion or belief to be happy with yourself.
-------------------- "I found it is the small everyday deeds of ordinary folk that keep the darkness at bay… small acts of kindness and love.” - Gandalf The Grey. "It is the mark of an educated mind to entertain a thought without accepting it." - Aristotle "I like to think of Jesus like with giant eagle's wings, and singin' lead vocals for Lynyrd Skynyrd with like an angel band and I'm in the front row and I'm HAMMERED DRUNK!" - Cal Naughton Jr. AKA The Magic Man. Abracadabra homes! "Each tear is a drop of poison released." - Anonymous "Could it be you're afraid of what your friends might say if they knew you believe in God above? They should realize before they criticize that God is the only way to Love."
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blingbling
what you chicken stew?

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Re: Transgenderism Is Based on Rigid Gender Roles [Re: LRG]
#23977246 - 01/02/17 08:29 PM (7 years, 28 days ago) |
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Yeah its not as simple as you've tried claim it is. People are often born with both sets of genitals, many men are impotent etc. There is room for ambiguity, but that ambiguity does not totally destroy gender categories just as the ambiguity between species does not totally destroy the categorisation of species.
-------------------- Kupo said: let's fuel the robots with psilocybin. cez said: everyone should smoke dmt for religion. dustinthewind13 said: euthanasia and prostitution should be legal and located in the same building. White Beard said: if you see the buddha on the road, rape him, then kill him. then rape him again.
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virtuous_babe
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Re: Transgenderism Is Based on Rigid Gender Roles [Re: LRG]
#23977397 - 01/02/17 09:37 PM (7 years, 27 days ago) |
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this is why I think it's important to distinguish sex from gender.
your sex is male if you have an X and Y chromosome. Your sex is female if you have two X chromosomes. If you differ from that, you have a genetic disorder and your sex is ambiguous.
Gender is more difficult to define. I see gender as the position where a person lies on the femininity-masculinity spectrum, which is dependent upon the cultural context they exist in. Gender identifications are relative to gender norms. One's gender identification does not have to be defined by their sex chromosomes. If your XY, you can identify as male when asked about your sex, but express yourself as female, and feel female, so your gender identification is female.
-------------------- all that may be wished for will by nature fade to nothing
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quinn
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Re: Transgenderism Is Based on Rigid Gender Roles [Re: AllGreyThumbs]
#23980595 - 01/04/17 05:15 AM (7 years, 26 days ago) |
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Quote:
AllGreyThumbs said: I've studied the phenomenon and it is clearly a defense mechanism. It allows someone to ineract without emotional commitment. You can say anything you want without exposing yourself emotionally because everything is potential a joke and not to be taken seriously.
...
In this way you are protected. Maybe you are misunderstanding something about the situation. Maybe the guys doesn't care to talk. In any case you haven't completely committed to a position of concern.
extremely this!
great post.. i have noticed this as well in similar jobs as well as sports teams
it is weird
i saw a billboard the other day advertising a rugby talk show (for those who dont know rugby is manliest man sport of all time)
the billboard had a picture of the 3 gruff hosts in suits, unshaven, slightly grinning
the caption said
"Justin Beaver? never heard of him."
this seemed important to me. it seems like exactly the kind of joke men make. and aside from the joke being bad and not related to rugby at all and it's subtext being bad (that liking JB is 'unmanly') the really strange thing about it is how it negates the knowledge that is needed to make it.
to call Justin Bieber Justin Beaver as a joke, you must have heard of Justin Bieber.
so denying that puts you in a kind of unassailable position.
it's really quite cunning and deceptive and i have met guys who behave just like this, act dumber than they are while secretly pulling the strings from the shadows..
i remember i was working as a maintenance assistant at a university and the maintenance guy (not much older than me) would constantly be throwing me off guard, making 'jokes' like 'dont drop this or i'll send you home' and then actually threatening to send me home and then telling me that actually really liked me.
it was very disorientating and he had this act like he was quite stupid when really i could tell he was secretly quite manipulative...
anyway im sorry for the slightly incoherent stream of consciousness make of it what u will
-------------------- dripping with fantasy
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blackdragon999
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Re: Transgenderism Is Based on Rigid Gender Roles [Re: lines]
#23980737 - 01/04/17 07:55 AM (7 years, 26 days ago) |
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Quote:
lines said: The transgender phenomena highlights how rigid gender roles are in the western world. If a male adopts customs common among females that male could get classified as being a female and in that case he could undergo gender reassignment treatments.
If there was gender fluidity in the western world we wouldn't classify males who practice female customs as being actual females. We would just assume they are males who are expressing their masculinity in an unorthodox way.
The transgender phenomena highlights the rigidity of gender identity in the western world. People in the western world are very rigid in saying "these behaviors are male and these behaviors are female and if you are a male and you behave outside the behaviors designated as male then you must be female". That is the most rigid thinking when it comes to gender.
The western world in my opinion is the least ridged when it comes to defining these things...the rest of the world makes it very clear what their gender roles are.(with the exception of a few cultures) The western world is in the vast minority when it comes to it's particular views on these issues. The idea that the west even views this as an issue at all is a little embarrassing.
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