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OfflineUniversaleyeni
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Re: human destruction of earth's fauna and flora [Re: Mad_Larkin]
    #23959872 - 12/27/16 06:48 AM (7 years, 1 month ago)

I think the big picture here is not our eventual wiping out, but the stages leading up to it: Exorbitant prices for shelter, food, not being able to hike 10 miles away to acquire another food source or shelter, not being able to eat out of our oceans, breathe our air, resist the sun with the ever depleting ozone layer, etc...imagine the chaos...way before we are dead.

Although graphs and research show this is a recurring natural thing, the problem in 2016 is the huge population that the earth cannot sustain. I find these arguments as funny as the global warming ones that show how this has happened in the earths history several times before and it is a perfectly natural occurrence. Only problem now is that we are 7+ billion deep, and hunting and gathering skills have switched from traditional methods to a sort of survival that requires the hunting and gathering of money as a token to feed and shelter ourselves.

When shit really starts to hit the fan, rich people will seem to be ok because they can pay for their survival. But when the masses rip them to shreds for a bite out of their $50 burgers, or a roof where not 4 but 40 people could be sheltered, then we'll have a clear-er picture of the cut throat planet we live on.

PS I ll be moved out of Florida long before its under water...which will be relatively soon (probably in my lifetime) :lol: anyone who doesn't agree should check out our king tides along the coast line and our clubbing hot spot South Beach ankle deep in water. Its slowly but surely goin under...see ya!


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InvisibleGrey Fox

Registered: 01/22/15
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Re: human destruction of earth's fauna and flora [Re: Universaleyeni]
    #23959891 - 12/27/16 07:18 AM (7 years, 1 month ago)

I was shocked to find out how big of a problem poaching is in my area.  Sadly a lot of people have the attitude that if they see a deer they should just shoot it... doesn't matter if its a doe or even a fawn.  People shoot a lot of different creatures on sight.  There's this attitude that there's plenty of them out there.  But I hike a lot and have for years.  It seems like over time I see less and less animals.

All the development is a huge problem.  More thought needs to be given to how wildlife uses the land before it is developed.  And so many people offroad all over wild places and leave trash.

I keep just keep trying to push further and further back into the hills on my hikes to get away from it all.  Seems like there's no stopping the destruction.  In fact the pace is increasing from what I see.


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IT WAS ALL A DREAM


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InvisibleMad_Larkin
Registered: 11/29/07
Posts: 18,606
Re: human destruction of earth's fauna and flora [Re: Universaleyeni] * 2
    #23959923 - 12/27/16 07:49 AM (7 years, 1 month ago)

Quote:

Universaleyeni said:
I think the big picture here is not our eventual wiping out, but the stages leading up to it: Exorbitant prices for shelter, food, not being able to hike 10 miles away to acquire another food source or shelter, not being able to eat out of our oceans, breathe our air, resist the sun with the ever depleting ozone layer, etc...imagine the chaos...way before we are dead.

Although graphs and research show this is a recurring natural thing, the problem in 2016 is the huge population that the earth cannot sustain. I find these arguments as funny as the global warming ones that show how this has happened in the earths history several times before and it is a perfectly natural occurrence. Only problem now is that we are 7+ billion deep, and hunting and gathering skills have switched from traditional methods to a sort of survival that requires the hunting and gathering of money as a token to feed and shelter ourselves.

When shit really starts to hit the fan, rich people will seem to be ok because they can pay for their survival. But when the masses rip them to shreds for a bite out of their $50 burgers, or a roof where not 4 but 40 people could be sheltered, then we'll have a clear-er picture of the cut throat planet we live on.

PS I ll be moved out of Florida long before its under water...which will be relatively soon (probably in my lifetime) :lol: anyone who doesn't agree should check out our king tides along the coast line and our clubbing hot spot South Beach ankle deep in water. Its slowly but surely goin under...see ya!




your premise that the Earth can't support 7+ billion people is just plain wrong. while our approach to the harvesting of natural resources has been fairly thoughtless until now, humans are perfectly capable of recognising problems and adapting to changing environments (it's like, what we do) when we realised we were overfishing Atlantic cod, for example, we put limits on the amount of fishing that could be done, and hence cod populations are recovering. with careful planning and management the Earth can (and will) support many more than 7 billion people.

i think these ideas of a anthropogenic ecological colapse/Malthusian correction come from some deep seated anarcho-primitivist/Luddite leanings that arose out of the 60s countercultural & new age movements and were perpetuated by people like Terence McKenna (and dare I say it, Ted Kaczynski)... they seem very popular here.


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Invisiblepassifloracaerulea
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Re: human destruction of earth's fauna and flora [Re: OhMrJohnson]
    #23959940 - 12/27/16 08:16 AM (7 years, 1 month ago)

Quote:

OhMrJohnson said:
I think human civilization as we all know it will soon collapse

Perhaps not in our lifetimes though, but certainly within the next few hundred years

It is sad to think about how much natural beauty has been defaced and destroyed in such a short period of time though, but as they say, karma is a bitch



Karma doesn't like being called a bitch...


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OfflineUniversaleyeni
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Re: human destruction of earth's fauna and flora [Re: Mad_Larkin]
    #23959942 - 12/27/16 08:17 AM (7 years, 1 month ago)

Quote:

Mad_Larkin said:
Quote:

Universaleyeni said:
I think the big picture here is not our eventual wiping out, but the stages leading up to it: Exorbitant prices for shelter, food, not being able to hike 10 miles away to acquire another food source or shelter, not being able to eat out of our oceans, breathe our air, resist the sun with the ever depleting ozone layer, etc...imagine the chaos...way before we are dead.

Although graphs and research show this is a recurring natural thing, the problem in 2016 is the huge population that the earth cannot sustain. I find these arguments as funny as the global warming ones that show how this has happened in the earths history several times before and it is a perfectly natural occurrence. Only problem now is that we are 7+ billion deep, and hunting and gathering skills have switched from traditional methods to a sort of survival that requires the hunting and gathering of money as a token to feed and shelter ourselves.

When shit really starts to hit the fan, rich people will seem to be ok because they can pay for their survival. But when the masses rip them to shreds for a bite out of their $50 burgers, or a roof where not 4 but 40 people could be sheltered, then we'll have a clear-er picture of the cut throat planet we live on.

PS I ll be moved out of Florida long before its under water...which will be relatively soon (probably in my lifetime) :lol: anyone who doesn't agree should check out our king tides along the coast line and our clubbing hot spot South Beach ankle deep in water. Its slowly but surely goin under...see ya!




your premise that the Earth can't support 7+ billion people is just plain wrong. while our approach to the harvesting of natural resources has been fairly thoughtless until now, humans are perfectly capable of recognising problems and adapting to changing environments (it's like, what we do) when we realised we were overfishing Atlantic cod, for example, we put limits on the amount of fishing that could be done, and hence cod populations are recovering. with careful planning and management the Earth can (and will) support many more than 7 billion people.

i think these ideas of a anthropogenic ecological colapse/Malthusian correction come from some deep seated anarcho-primitivist/Luddite leanings that arose out of the 60s countercultural & new age movements and were perpetuated by people like Terence McKenna (and dare I say it, Ted Kaczynski)... they seem very popular here.




My dear friend, im with you as far as the earth being able to sustain us with careful planning, etc...

The problem is that the earth we live on is not governed by careful, thoughtful people.

For example, what good are fishing restrictions on cod, when oil accidents pump millions of barrels a day into our oceans, destroying habitats and poisoning one of our food sources? Or what good is it to have lobster and snapper season, when Fukushima is actively leaking radioactive waste into our oceans?

What im sayin is, humans are not all so careful and thoughtful in their actions, and taking that into account, we will deplete our oceans, or the life in them will be inedible. Our air is more polluted by the minute, and our soil as well. Depletion of forests, huge ecological habitats...etc...so while you and i might come together and work out a practical solution, the elite who profit off the exploitation of the earth will never, as long as theres a profit to be made.

As for your second paragraph...too many big words :lol: ya lost me there! But no love lost, ever.


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Invisible404
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Re: human destruction of earth's fauna and flora [Re: Universaleyeni] * 1
    #23959981 - 12/27/16 08:46 AM (7 years, 1 month ago)

The bit about radiation from fukushima is less dire than ypu may think it seems. Yes it's bad, however, the ocean is incredibly vast and the radiation is very diluted and will continue to dilute until a certain point.


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Invisibledemiu5
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Re: human destruction of earth's fauna and flora [Re: 404]
    #23960028 - 12/27/16 09:19 AM (7 years, 1 month ago)

methane


--------------------
channel your inner Larry David


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OfflineUniversaleyeni
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Re: human destruction of earth's fauna and flora [Re: 404]
    #23960065 - 12/27/16 09:43 AM (7 years, 1 month ago)

Quote:

404 said:
The bit about radiation from fukushima is less dire than ypu may think it seems. Yes it's bad, however, the ocean is incredibly vast and the radiation is very diluted and will continue to dilute until a certain point.




Its cool to downplay things, i understand your logic. Perhaps its the same logic used by businessmen to defend ongoing destructive activities. Im not ragging on you at all, i know it may seem hard to tell from reading text.

You gotta understand that the demand for places like fukushima to exist, our harsh consumerism, is what puts our earth at risk.

If fukushima were a single isolated incident, i'd agree its not THAT big a deal. But when coupled with everything else going on, its an extra needle on the haystack.

I'll play with you and say that the ocean doesnt have a fresh water intake system or a man made replaceable filter system, or a place other than itself to absorb and digest the radiation, oil, plastic, etc.

The filter is actually the plant life coated in poison, absorbed by ocean life that ingests it, ultimately eaten by us. :lol: or evaporated into clouds to then rain down on our crops.

Also, the vastness of the oceans, and the critical currents and movements of water, are the crucial factors in the oceans' involvement in our existence. 70 percent of our bodies are water? Where do we draw the line?

Anywhosers, its all good im sure. The universe has no opinions. It is what it is.

:cool:


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Offlinespecialpeopleclub
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Re: human destruction of earth's fauna and flora [Re: Mad_Larkin] * 1
    #23960075 - 12/27/16 09:49 AM (7 years, 1 month ago)

This is so stupid. This is the natural cycle of things, we are nature. I do hope we don't completely destroy the rainforest based on the linier projections decades out.

Liberals make too much about the environment though. It has actually had much more carbon in the atmosphere, for example.

I must admit, cheetahs going extinct is nice. Tigers first though, fuck monsters. I don't get why people like monsters so much. Is there some sort of evolutionary advantage to people that like tigers or enjoy disaster movies where everyone dies?
Quote:

Mad_Larkin said:
Quote:

404 said:
If you take out one species the species that relied on that species for whatever reason gets more strain on it to survive.

But, for the sake of argument, what makes you say that?




it's a natural cycle. species diversity increases over long periods of time, spikes exponentially over a short period, then drops sharply in mass die offs, making way for new levels of complexity/diversity





This seems about right, though now we get to be the cause and not the victem


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InvisiblePrisoner#1
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Re: human destruction of earth's fauna and flora [Re: 404]
    #23960104 - 12/27/16 10:03 AM (7 years, 1 month ago)

Quote:

404 said:
i see a lot of development in my area too. entire swaths of forests get cut down and apartment complexes and houses go up, and there's less and less natural environment to enjoy.





is your area a cheetah habitat?


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Offlinespecialpeopleclub
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Re: human destruction of earth's fauna and flora [Re: Prisoner#1]
    #23960111 - 12/27/16 10:04 AM (7 years, 1 month ago)


Shouldn't have been vegan


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Invisibledemiu5
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Re: human destruction of earth's fauna and flora [Re: specialpeopleclub] * 1
    #23960115 - 12/27/16 10:07 AM (7 years, 1 month ago)

Quote:

specialpeopleclub said:
This is so stupid. This is the natural cycle of things, we are nature. I do hope we don't completely destroy the rainforest based on the linier projections decades out.

Liberals make too much about the environment though. It has actually had much more carbon in the atmosphere, for example.





carbon really isn't THE issue.  carbon is an issue because of mass-clearcuts all around the world (amazon rainforest, california/washington rainforests, etc...) and general habitat destruction for an ever-growing and consuming human population which reduces the vegetations' overall ability to process CO2.  exponentials in both directions


methane is the real issue, atmospherically.  and other compounds play a role as well. 


i'm going to make a blanket statement here, so i hope everyone can forgive me: any intelligent, informed person should be able to discern the difference between naturally occurring climate change, global-warming/global-cooling cycles as visible through geologic archaeology, and human-influenced climate change.  in our present time, we were already on the verge of entering into the next ice-age, as part of the natural cycle of climate change.  ice-ages are preceded by periods of warming.  however, since the industrial revolution, humans have rapidly increased the rate of which the warming is coming on, which, in turn, is likely to reduce the time before the cooling-cycle begins.  volcanic activity is what commonly and naturally aids the CO, CO2, and CH4 levels in the atmosphere, as well as other compounds.  presumably, meteoric activity within the atmosphere can also have minor effects as well.


all that being said, fresh-water systems are growing more and more toxic, as well as the land-base.


all these things will add up within the current and/or next generation to the point that the effects are no longer undeniable by anyone


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InvisibleLunarEclipse
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Re: human destruction of earth's fauna and flora [Re: specialpeopleclub]
    #23960125 - 12/27/16 10:10 AM (7 years, 1 month ago)

There's nothing natural about 4 meltdowns dumping radiation into the Pacific Ocean for 5+ years, with absolutely no end in sight.  No technology to clean up the mess, ever. 

There's nothing natural about 20 million tons of alumina etc. being sprayed into the atmosphere every year.  Now the latest proposal by Dr. David Keith the famous geoengineering scientist, is to spray calcium carbonate instead of alumina.  Less "risk" according to Dr. Keith. 

There's nothing natural about the salmon number acute drop off in 2016.  It was predictable after Fukushima, salmon go to sea for 5 years.  Those numbers will continue to drop off in 2017 as even admitted recently by NOAA.


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Anxiety is what you make it.


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InvisiblePrisoner#1
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Re: human destruction of earth's fauna and flora [Re: LunarEclipse]
    #23960138 - 12/27/16 10:17 AM (7 years, 1 month ago)

Quote:

LunarEclipse said:
There's nothing natural about 20 million tons of alumina etc. being sprayed into the atmosphere every year.  Now the latest proposal by Dr. David Keith the famous geoengineering scientist, is to spray calcium carbonate instead of alumina.  Less "risk" according to Dr. Keith.





DAH KIMTRALEZ!!!!

my how that conspiracy drivel has changed from the extermination of the population to geoengineering


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Offlinespecialpeopleclub
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Re: human destruction of earth's fauna and flora [Re: LunarEclipse]
    #23960143 - 12/27/16 10:20 AM (7 years, 1 month ago)

We are in an ice age right now.

Your post about intelligent people is so pretentious. I've heard scientists make arguments against this that seem pretty valid, along with that the disaster predictions of the late 90's not coming true.

Rohan had Cancel Carlson on and he had a whole thing about how cooling is so much worse.

I think alot of this is fearful liberals that hear something like 'ocian acidification' and can use arguments from authority trying trying to have a cause to yell about
Like pronouns, gay marriage, racism


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OfflineUniversaleyeni
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Re: human destruction of earth's fauna and flora [Re: Prisoner#1]
    #23960165 - 12/27/16 10:27 AM (7 years, 1 month ago)

Quote:

Prisoner#1 said:
Quote:

LunarEclipse said:
There's nothing natural about 20 million tons of alumina etc. being sprayed into the atmosphere every year.  Now the latest proposal by Dr. David Keith the famous geoengineering scientist, is to spray calcium carbonate instead of alumina.  Less "risk" according to Dr. Keith.





DAH KIMTRALEZ!!!!

my how that conspiracy drivel has changed from the extermination of the population to geoengineering




Where I live, planes sprayed a pesticide that is illegal in Europe, all over Miami Beach to kill mosquitos that may be transmitting Zika. Like all over residential neighborhoods, parks, etc more than 4 times I think. Really smart.

Conspiracy or not...

Humans, lol! :laugh2:

I love that demiu5...yea I was gonna mention the methane but I dodged a brainiac saying: "yea bruh cow farts are causing climate change" :facepalm:

And as you and lunar point out, there is nothing natural about this shit. It's all our human doing.


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InvisibleSheekle
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Re: human destruction of earth's fauna and flora [Re: Universaleyeni]
    #23960168 - 12/27/16 10:30 AM (7 years, 1 month ago)

at least the air in cities is dramatically cleaner than it was in the 80's & 90's


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Invisibledemiu5
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Re: human destruction of earth's fauna and flora [Re: specialpeopleclub]
    #23960170 - 12/27/16 10:31 AM (7 years, 1 month ago)

Quote:

specialpeopleclub said:
We are in an ice age right now.

Your post about intelligent people is so pretentious. I've heard scientists make arguments against this that seem pretty valid, along with that the disaster predictions of the late 90's not coming true.

Rohan had Cancel Carlson on and he had a whole thing about how cooling is so much worse.

I think alot of this is fearful liberals that hear something like 'ocian acidification' and can use arguments from authority trying trying to have a cause to yell about
Like pronouns, gay marriage, racism






hence why i acknowledged it was a blanket statement.

i didn't mention anything about time frames. 


the fact that you mention politics and "political/social issues" shows how ignorant you and others are on this matter.  this is not a political issue.  this is an issue that has the potential to affect every living thing on this planet now and in the future


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Offlinespecialpeopleclub
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Re: human destruction of earth's fauna and flora [Re: demiu5]
    #23960191 - 12/27/16 10:40 AM (7 years, 1 month ago)

Alot of possibly intake things have the potential to effect everything. Of course it's political. You think people in power won't use a panic filled issue like that to their advantage, true or not?

I've watched alot on it, and really, I'm not convinced it's what liberals seem to say.


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InvisibleCookieCrumbsM
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Re: human destruction of earth's fauna and flora [Re: Universaleyeni] * 2
    #23960198 - 12/27/16 10:42 AM (7 years, 1 month ago)

Yeah basically the entire problem is humanity is a mass of greedy selfish fucktards.


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