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Peyote Road
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Met crazy herbalist curandero dude
#23959566 - 12/26/16 11:43 PM (7 years, 1 month ago) |
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So I was looking for places to live and found a room with very cheap rent, I went to check it out and it turns out I'll be sharing the house with this crazy old man who makes his living as a psychic herbalist/curandero and I am paying him some extra money every month to be my teacher. I really don't know what to make of him or this arrangement, but I feel like when life presents an opportunity like this I have to explore it. He says the craziest, most off the wall things but we seem to be getting along so far. I feel like I am in the 1% of the population that wouldn't think he was totally insane but I was sorely in need of a teacher/some personal attention.
-------------------- The path of the herbalist is to open ourselves to nature in an innocent and pure way. SHe in turn will open her bounty and reward us with many valuable secrets. May the earth bless you. - Michael Tierra
Edited by Peyote Road (12/26/16 11:46 PM)
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beforethedawn
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Re: Met crazy herbalist curandero dude [Re: Peyote Road]
#23959601 - 12/27/16 12:34 AM (7 years, 1 month ago) |
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-------------------- Hostile humankind Can't you see you're fucking blind?
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The Blind Ass
Bodhi



Registered: 08/16/16
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Re: Met crazy herbalist curandero dude [Re: beforethedawn] 1
#23959612 - 12/27/16 12:42 AM (7 years, 1 month ago) |
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Just... be wary. Test him so to speak...slowly over time. By his fruits and actions you'll know him not just off the cuff words. Hopefully it is a fortuitous meeting of right juncture and such. Over time, characters are revealed. Best to you and I hope he is a legitimate teacher and you develop a relationship with him where you learn the ancient tradition of herbalism and then some. Just a friendly reminder since we do live in the world after all.
-------------------- Give me Liberty caps -or- give me Death caps
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deff
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Re: Met crazy herbalist curandero dude [Re: Peyote Road]
#23959881 - 12/27/16 07:10 AM (7 years, 1 month ago) |
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sounds like an interesting arrangement! neat how things unfold how they do
as the blind ass said, keep your discernment of course. but I also hope he is a great teacher / housemate for you
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Peyote Road
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Re: Met crazy herbalist curandero dude [Re: deff]
#23960615 - 12/27/16 01:58 PM (7 years, 1 month ago) |
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To start off he is having me read The Fourth Way by Ouspensky. Any opinions on this book?
-------------------- The path of the herbalist is to open ourselves to nature in an innocent and pure way. SHe in turn will open her bounty and reward us with many valuable secrets. May the earth bless you. - Michael Tierra
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The Blind Ass
Bodhi



Registered: 08/16/16
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Re: Met crazy herbalist curandero dude [Re: Peyote Road]
#23960675 - 12/27/16 02:26 PM (7 years, 1 month ago) |
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Gurdjieff's work the 4th way? I am vaguely familiar with it. It is similar to a sadhana - of the gradual path to the great perfection. Basically a system to work on yourself with. I dont know much more than that. Heres a quip from Lonchenpa's finding comfort and ease about this graduated process. Mind you he calls it an illusion but a useful one to work with.
This third aspect of maya, the technical illusion, can be pictured as the magical illusion of Dzogchen yogis and yoginis striving to resolve the fantasies and paradoxes that the intellect creates.
Every technique of sadhana has a starting point, a path and a goal; a beginning, a middle and an end; preparation, application, 'seeing' and familiarization. In the context of this Cutting Through phase (trekcho ), 'preparation' may refer to repea~ed momentary experience of the nature of mind; 'application' to the gradual assimilation of mundane experience to the nature of mind; 'seeing' to insight into the sameness of every situation that provides a continuity of unbroken moments of pure presence; and finally 'familiarization' to the constant presence of pure presence where karma is exhausted.
Our ordinary experience, in between moments of recognition of the nature of mind, is the actuality of maya polluted by intellectual belief. The third functional aspect of maya is the illusion of decontamination, the delusion of an intentional sadhana, a graduated path, an intellectual thrust supported by a conducive lifestyle that eradicates the inveterate tendencies that relentlessly structure the immediate illusion of our experience. On a superficial, preparatory level, we can begin by shaking the bigotry of the intellect by undermining its logical certainties, its habits and presumptions. That implies a rejection-or at least a 'phenomenological bracketing' -of the overt product of the senses.
Non-action allows relaxation into the primordial purity of the ground of being where primal awareness illuminates the delusory maya that has then become immaculate maya. There is no technical meditation instruction that contrives the state of relaxation. Nonaction cannot be fabricated.
No controller exists who can set himself up for dissolution and self-destruction. The surrender . that culminates in dissolution is only reached through the precepts of the Dzogchen view that are truly no-precepts.
(mind you this is the dzogchen way - one of many ways - but I think this clears up what he gave to you - a intro into a sadhana)
I know this is long but you asked ... this is maybe important considering your position. (just replace buddhism or whatever is noted here with what your doing and see through to the essence of what it points to)
It may be appropriate here to note how the paradigm of Tibetan Buddhist sadhana was assimilated by the psychedelic movement of the 'sixties. Mind-altering substances replaced simply-sitting and the processes of creative and fulfilment meditation as the arena in which the nature of mind was recognized. While it is evident that recognition is only momentary, permitted only for the duration of the effect of the chemical, such experience can act as a touchstone upon which reality may be gauged in an ongoing sadhana wherein conviction of the 'truth' of all experience is recognized, allowing confidence in reflexive release to arise. Psychedelics remain an uncertain method of attaining a powerful experience of recognition of the ground of being. But like psychopathic states and near death experience, they seem to be able to induce a foretaste Of the nature of mind. Particularly under the rubric of shamanism they should not be rejected or belittled, especially in cultures, like the Mexican and South American, in which the tradition of substance-induced psychedelic mysticism has existed for many generations.
The fourth functional aspect of maya is what remains experientially after all belief in any substantial reality whatsoever has been expunged. When our nonmeditation, our insight into the nature of mind, reveals the wondrous essential truth that the external world and our experience of it, and the inner world of thought and emotion, is all contrived by the intellect, that it has no substantial existence, at that time the understanding of maya dawns. Both inner and the outer are illusory. It is all magical display. It is unitary maya.
-------------------- Give me Liberty caps -or- give me Death caps
Edited by The Blind Ass (12/27/16 02:41 PM)
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Duncan Rowhl
Fiducia Christum



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Re: Met crazy herbalist curandero dude [Re: The Blind Ass]
#23961506 - 12/27/16 10:36 PM (7 years, 1 month ago) |
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You've a bizzare, albeit interesting way of selecting and paying for a 'teacher'.
Sounds like you've met a new friend at least which is good enough in any way,
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Heyowana
Hex10 line2


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Re: Met crazy herbalist curandero dude [Re: Peyote Road]
#23961920 - 12/28/16 04:47 AM (7 years, 1 month ago) |
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Funny a Curandero would be into Ouspensky and the system. Fourth way is a good introduction to traditional Gurdjieff exercises of self observation, self remembering and realising that group study is the only option. Has interesting ideas about being present which are very functional for any generation.
Very old though. Most of the info comes from his time with Gurdjieff before 1920. In Search of the Miraculous also by Ouspensky is another introductory book for Gurdjieff's teaching.
Reason I said its funny a Curandero would recommend the Fourth way is that Ouspensky had a little to say about drugs. His ideas came from Gurdjieff even though he could not handle Gurdjieff so had a break with him. Never the less he remained faithful to his ideas until the end.
They said that drugs cannot give consciousness as in making one more present. They felt that drugs actually took one further into the world of imagination and "sleep". Gurdjieff turns a lot of things on their head though. The whole Indian philosophy about Kundalini he viewed as the power of imagination. He said it was delusional to think we can turn into other animals when we can't even be present enough to know ourselves.
The system of Gurdjieff is hardcore in its hatred of drugs as far as I know. At least that's how it was presented to me. So I would be very interested to know why he asked you to read the Fourth Way.
Edited by Heyowana (12/28/16 04:49 AM)
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The Blind Ass
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Re: Met crazy herbalist curandero dude [Re: Heyowana]
#23962719 - 12/28/16 12:54 PM (7 years, 1 month ago) |
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Quote:
Heyowana said: Funny a Curandero would be into Ouspensky and the system. Fourth way is a good introduction to traditional Gurdjieff exercises of self observation, self remembering and realising that group study is the only option. Has interesting ideas about being present which are very functional for any generation.
Very old though. Most of the info comes from his time with Gurdjieff before 1920. In Search of the Miraculous also by Ouspensky is another introductory book for Gurdjieff's teaching.
Reason I said its funny a Curandero would recommend the Fourth way is that Ouspensky had a little to say about drugs. His ideas came from Gurdjieff even though he could not handle Gurdjieff so had a break with him. Never the less he remained faithful to his ideas until the end.
They said that drugs cannot give consciousness as in making one more present. They felt that drugs actually took one further into the world of imagination and "sleep". Gurdjieff turns a lot of things on their head though. The whole Indian philosophy about Kundalini he viewed as the power of imagination. He said it was delusional to think we can turn into other animals when we can't even be present enough to know ourselves.
The system of Gurdjieff is hardcore in its hatred of drugs as far as I know. At least that's how it was presented to me. So I would be very interested to know why he asked you to read the Fourth Way.
Gurdijieff was particular to whatever group he was adressing based on their own karmic proclivities. Some groups needed to be told one thing - taught in a certain way to rouse from slumber or to learn what they needed for their own healing of old wounds or/and delusions- another group needed the opposite. Not that he was a hypocrite, but used what they call skillful means to reach people in regards to their own past and present conditions and circumstances - which is different in different individuals. He himself experimented with many drugs at a time, and had his say about them good and bad. For experimentation and healing, but not in excess, and not for all, and not continually, eventually to be abandoned.
-------------------- Give me Liberty caps -or- give me Death caps
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Heyowana
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Re: Met crazy herbalist curandero dude [Re: The Blind Ass]
#23963010 - 12/28/16 03:11 PM (7 years, 1 month ago) |
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Yes there is literature that states that Gurdjieff knew about the effects of Hashish and Opium. Also having been introduced to Sufi orders there could have been other types of drugs as well.
However the message is clear in In Search of the Miraculous that drugs don't add Consciousness. If you haven't read it then that would be a good place to start. Gurdjieff talks about schools where drugs have been used to affect the consciousness of the student.
That places a big responsibility on the teacher. By the time Gurdjieff met Ouspensky he was teaching his ideas to the public. He had formulated the ideas behind his system. Like most people he would have done experiments using drugs I assume.
I am a dropout from the system. It was made obvious to me from the first interview that recreational drugs had no place there. Medications were permitted. Times change I know but it comes back to the responsibility of the teacher.
The system places a big emphasis on being conscious of the self or selves. If you think about the amount of awareness needed to administer a drug to have a desired effect on the consciousness. Then it would demand knowledge of being that most normal humans do not have.
There was talk about some schools in more recent times since the formulation of Gurdjieff's system trying experiments with drugs. It's at the level of hearsay as far as I know. I never heard anything positive said about those schools but I don't know much in an objective sense.
As far as I know there were different teachings from Gurdjieff's system that various groups promoted who followed his ideas. He made some comments about it which could be taken subjectively. Like why the English emphasised "self remembering" as such a big thing. Whilst the Germans talked about changing the blood through conscious meditation. He had a lot to say about Americans as well.
He thought that different groups will hook onto ideas that appeal to their intentions. That doesn't mean their selective teaching is a true transmission in an objective sense. Gurdjieff travelled widely for a long time. He came in contact with lots of different teachings as far as I know.
Fourth Way ideas are supposed to be a synthesis of the information Gurdjieff was exposed to. They are his take on life and the possible evolutionary development of man.
The further something gets from its source over time the more the essence of the transmission will be changed. Its easy to say Gurdjieff taught this group this and another group that. You can justify anything with that line of thought.
He stated many times that he would go out of his way to step on the toes of anyone to help them to awaken. That in itself is subject to the consciousness of the giver and the recipient. A subjective interpretation from a witness not involved in this "shock" to awaken doesn't mean anything at all except inaccuracy to understand in a conscious sense.
Crux of the dilemma when it comes to Gurdjieff and the system. If you know what I mean?
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The Blind Ass
Bodhi



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Re: Met crazy herbalist curandero dude [Re: Heyowana]
#23963028 - 12/28/16 03:18 PM (7 years, 1 month ago) |
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Well Peyote Road please update me with how things evolve with this man you have met. I am interested in knowing what becomes of it - curious, I feel!
-------------------- Give me Liberty caps -or- give me Death caps
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Peyote Road
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Re: Met crazy herbalist curandero dude [Re: The Blind Ass] 1
#23969696 - 12/31/16 12:14 AM (7 years, 30 days ago) |
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Update. Curanderos are truly magical beings.
-------------------- The path of the herbalist is to open ourselves to nature in an innocent and pure way. SHe in turn will open her bounty and reward us with many valuable secrets. May the earth bless you. - Michael Tierra
Edited by Peyote Road (12/31/16 12:30 AM)
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LunarEclipse
Enlil's Official Story


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Re: Met crazy herbalist curandero dude [Re: Peyote Road]
#23971168 - 12/31/16 03:34 PM (7 years, 30 days ago) |
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Quote:
Peyote Road said: Update. Curanderos are truly magical beings.
Did he double your silver holdings?
-------------------- Anxiety is what you make it.
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Peyote Road
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Re: Met crazy herbalist curandero dude [Re: LunarEclipse]
#23972363 - 01/01/17 05:51 AM (7 years, 29 days ago) |
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He sure did.
-------------------- The path of the herbalist is to open ourselves to nature in an innocent and pure way. SHe in turn will open her bounty and reward us with many valuable secrets. May the earth bless you. - Michael Tierra
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LunarEclipse
Enlil's Official Story


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Re: Met crazy herbalist curandero dude [Re: Peyote Road]
#23972980 - 01/01/17 01:03 PM (7 years, 29 days ago) |
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Quote:
Peyote Road said: He sure did.
-------------------- Anxiety is what you make it.
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xzylocybin
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Re: Met crazy herbalist curandero dude [Re: LunarEclipse]
#24031544 - 01/22/17 07:02 PM (7 years, 8 days ago) |
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Can he look you in the eye when he talks to you?
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