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demiu5
humans, lol


Registered: 08/18/05
Posts: 43,948
Loc: the popcorn stadium
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Re: Obama just took a vicious shot at Israel [Re: ModestMouse]
#23953972 - 12/24/16 11:13 AM (7 years, 1 month ago) |
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Quote:
ModestMouse said: We're in that awkward grimmace at eachother from a distance phase.
One day we will all be friends 
don't look at me like that, bub
-------------------- channel your inner Larry David
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daytripper05
Psychonaut




Registered: 10/30/06
Posts: 6,962
Loc: In my garden
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Re: Obama just took a vicious shot at Israel [Re: ModestMouse]
#23953974 - 12/24/16 11:13 AM (7 years, 1 month ago) |
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Quote:
ModestMouse said:
Quote:
daytripper05 said: I don't see how liberals can defend such a spineless position. If you (Obama) want to stand against it, vote no. Abstaining from the vote just makes your last 8 years look that much more pathetic.
How so? Abstaining is the ultimate hands off policy Something this country was urged to follow
Hes saying the middle east can go fuck themselves.
His hand off policy is exactly what many of us disagree with and why Trump got elected. We are a part of the UN and there was a vote on this. Why wouldn't he just vote no when it has the same implication rather than doing nothing? His half assed hands off approach has led to the civil way in Syria. His hands off policy gave Iran a multi billion dollar ransom payment in cash in the middle of the night for a poorly negotiated nuclear deal. The list goes on...
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ModestMouse
IM WALKIN ON SUNSHINE



Registered: 05/06/13
Posts: 19,227
Loc: Upstate
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Re: Obama just took a vicious shot at Israel [Re: daytripper05]
#23953981 - 12/24/16 11:15 AM (7 years, 1 month ago) |
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Yes these conflicts are a result of obamas belief in leseiz faire (sp) and have nothing to do with the responsibility of the nations involved.

Let those fuckers fight themselves. We belong nowhere near the middle east
-------------------- Anyone got a lowpass filter in this biiiiash?
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demiu5
humans, lol


Registered: 08/18/05
Posts: 43,948
Loc: the popcorn stadium
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Re: Obama just took a vicious shot at Israel [Re: ModestMouse]
#23953993 - 12/24/16 11:20 AM (7 years, 1 month ago) |
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Quote:
ModestMouse said: Yes these conflicts are a result of obamas belief in leseiz faire (sp) and have nothing to do with the responsibility of the nations involved.

Let those fuckers fight themselves. We belong nowhere near the middle eastern
*laissez
if focus was directed towards domestic energy production, which there are a plethora of options available, there would be little to no reason to be involved, aside from America's imperialist, "can't-help-themselves" disability. that's not as profitable for the higher-ups and would take much time to change current infrastructure, though, which is just too damn difficult so let's continue taking the easy way out, everyone else and the land-base be damned!
daytripper also doesn't seem to want to accept America's role in virtually every civil war/uprising in that region for the last 50-70 years
-------------------- channel your inner Larry David
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daytripper05
Psychonaut




Registered: 10/30/06
Posts: 6,962
Loc: In my garden
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Re: Obama just took a vicious shot at Israel [Re: ModestMouse]
#23953995 - 12/24/16 11:21 AM (7 years, 1 month ago) |
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I agree that we belong nowhere near the middle east. But that's exactly why we are in the problem. Obama's policies, and specifically secretary of state Clinton, helped lead to a further destabilization in the middle east, as did Bush before that. I think we should have no part in nation building.
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DieCommie

Registered: 12/11/03
Posts: 29,258
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Re: Obama just took a vicious shot at Israel [Re: demiu5]
#23953998 - 12/24/16 11:21 AM (7 years, 1 month ago) |
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Quote:
demiu5 said:
Quote:
DieCommie said: Its hard to stop the movement of people and their want to build and live. Whether its Mexicans going to the states, Muslims going to Europe or Jews going to Israel. I understand the want to keep your culture and way of life "pure" and not let the foreigners dilute it. I understand it, but I don't really agree with it.
everyone seems in favor of globalization and the economic benefits thereof, yet don't want to face the realities that come with it, such as migration, expression of ideas, mixing of cultures/religions, and so on
In the end, for the vast majority of people, economic benefit trumps cultural pride and purity.
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demiu5
humans, lol


Registered: 08/18/05
Posts: 43,948
Loc: the popcorn stadium
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Re: Obama just took a vicious shot at Israel [Re: daytripper05] 1
#23954001 - 12/24/16 11:22 AM (7 years, 1 month ago) |
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Quote:
daytripper05 said: I agree that we belong nowhere near the middle east. But that's exactly why we are in the problem. Obama's policies, and specifically secretary of state Clinton, helped lead to a further destabilization in the middle east, as did Bush before that. I think we should have no part in nation building.
"nation-building"

ahem
      
-------------------- channel your inner Larry David
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daytripper05
Psychonaut




Registered: 10/30/06
Posts: 6,962
Loc: In my garden
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Re: Obama just took a vicious shot at Israel [Re: demiu5]
#23954005 - 12/24/16 11:23 AM (7 years, 1 month ago) |
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Quote:
demiu5 said: daytripper also doesn't seem to want to accept America's role in virtually every civil war/uprising in that region for the last 50-70 years
See my last post. I definitely don't support it. I've stood with the same position as Ron Paul for years in that we need to get out of the affairs of the middle east.
But Obama's in ability to show support to either side and not vote in the UN literally is a poor attempt to save his "legacy" and not support Israel at the same time. It has nothing to do with the issues you guys are rebutting.
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daytripper05
Psychonaut




Registered: 10/30/06
Posts: 6,962
Loc: In my garden
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Re: Obama just took a vicious shot at Israel [Re: demiu5]
#23954010 - 12/24/16 11:24 AM (7 years, 1 month ago) |
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Quote:
demiu5 said:
Quote:
daytripper05 said: I agree that we belong nowhere near the middle east. But that's exactly why we are in the problem. Obama's policies, and specifically secretary of state Clinton, helped lead to a further destabilization in the middle east, as did Bush before that. I think we should have no part in nation building.
"nation-building"

ahem
       
That's an intelligently written post...
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demiu5
humans, lol


Registered: 08/18/05
Posts: 43,948
Loc: the popcorn stadium
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Re: Obama just took a vicious shot at Israel [Re: daytripper05]
#23954043 - 12/24/16 11:38 AM (7 years, 1 month ago) |
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Quote:
daytripper05 said:
Quote:
demiu5 said: daytripper also doesn't seem to want to accept America's role in virtually every civil war/uprising in that region for the last 50-70 years
See my last post. I definitely don't support it. I've stood with the same position as Ron Paul for years in that we need to get out of the affairs of the middle east.
But Obama's in ability to show support to either side and not vote in the UN literally is a poor attempt to save his "legacy" and not support Israel at the same time. It has nothing to do with the issues you guys are rebutting.
this is a domino-effect. history is incredibly important here. ultimately all this has little to do, DIRECTLY, with Obama.
Quote:
daytripper05 said:
Quote:
demiu5 said:
Quote:
daytripper05 said: I agree that we belong nowhere near the middle east. But that's exactly why we are in the problem. Obama's policies, and specifically secretary of state Clinton, helped lead to a further destabilization in the middle east, as did Bush before that. I think we should have no part in nation building.
"nation-building"

ahem
       
That's an intelligently written post...
unintelligent, or flagrantly false posts don't warrant even semi-intelligent responses. to claim the US has ever been involved in 'nation-building' in that region is just.....wow, man....so far from anything remotely true
-------------------- channel your inner Larry David
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mescalator
Stranger

Registered: 09/19/16
Posts: 156
Last seen: 6 years, 3 months
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Re: Obama just took a vicious shot at Israel [Re: daytripper05]
#23954046 - 12/24/16 11:39 AM (7 years, 1 month ago) |
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Israel should be suported IMO. They are the only civilized country in that whole cesspool of a region.
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demiu5
humans, lol


Registered: 08/18/05
Posts: 43,948
Loc: the popcorn stadium
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Re: Obama just took a vicious shot at Israel [Re: mescalator]
#23954049 - 12/24/16 11:41 AM (7 years, 1 month ago) |
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Quote:
mescalator said: Israel should be suported IMO.
Why?
Quote:
They are the only civilized country in that whole cesspool of a region.
this is not a reason to support your claim
please provide hard evidence to support why you feel Israel should be supported. And please elaborate who should be supporting them.
-------------------- channel your inner Larry David
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daytripper05
Psychonaut




Registered: 10/30/06
Posts: 6,962
Loc: In my garden
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Re: Obama just took a vicious shot at Israel [Re: demiu5]
#23954055 - 12/24/16 11:45 AM (7 years, 1 month ago) |
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Are you living under a rock dude?
We took out Sadam Hussein and had troops stationed there to train their army and brought "democracy" to Iraq. We literally toppled one government and spent billions of dollars in infrastructure there. I don't know what you call it, but that's what I am calling "nation building", which is exactly what it is.
We spend more money on aid to other nations than our own. This is why people are opposing globalization.
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Prisoner#1
Even Dumber ThanAdvertized!


Registered: 01/22/03
Posts: 193,665
Loc: Pvt. Pubfag NutSuck
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Re: Obama just took a vicious shot at Israel [Re: Bill_Oreilly]
#23954063 - 12/24/16 11:51 AM (7 years, 1 month ago) |
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Quote:
Bill_Oreilly said: I think we should create a revised copy of the bible and renovate the whole religion
yes, renovate.... that's how I'd put it
normally liberals call it nuking
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demiu5
humans, lol


Registered: 08/18/05
Posts: 43,948
Loc: the popcorn stadium
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Re: Obama just took a vicious shot at Israel [Re: daytripper05]
#23954069 - 12/24/16 11:54 AM (7 years, 1 month ago) |
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Quote:
daytripper05 said: Are you living under a rock dude?
We took out Sadam Hussein and had troops stationed there to train their army and brought "democracy" to Iraq. We literally toppled one government and spent billions of dollars in infrastructure there. I don't know what you call it, but that's what I am calling "nation building", which is exactly what it is.
We spend more money on aid to other nations than our own. This is why people are opposing globalization.
many Iraqi citizens claimed things got worse with US involvement. The sanctions against Iraq, pre-US invasion, were one of the biggest factors, economically and politically, to Iraq's lack of "progress" in those areas. I'm not defending Hussein in any way, but what was the point of invading either time? Tens of thousands still died in the years following Hussein's removal and execution, and the governments we tried to setup were as or more corrupt than Hussein, changing hands multiple times.
i don't call that nation-building. i call it nation-destruction with Iraq having yet to stabilize since
For the record, i'm opposed to globalization, and am a proponent of isolationism or limited trade. However, barring the US reneging on its debts and fueling the start of World War III, globalism is here to stay.
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mescalator
Stranger

Registered: 09/19/16
Posts: 156
Last seen: 6 years, 3 months
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Re: Obama just took a vicious shot at Israel [Re: demiu5]
#23954074 - 12/24/16 11:59 AM (7 years, 1 month ago) |
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Quote:
demiu5 said:
Quote:
mescalator said: Israel should be suported IMO.
Why?
Quote:
They are the only civilized country in that whole cesspool of a region.
this is not a reason to support your claim
Yes it is.
Quote:
And please elaborate who should be supporting them.
The whole civilized world should suppport Israel.
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vinsue
Grand Old Fart



Registered: 02/17/04
Posts: 17,953
Loc: The Garden State(NJ)
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Re: Obama just took a vicious shot at Israel [Re: Prisoner#1]
#23954080 - 12/24/16 12:02 PM (7 years, 1 month ago) |
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Trump thinks we need more nukes. https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2016/dec/23/donald-trump-nuclear-weapons-arms-race
Quote:
“Let it be an arms race,” the president in waiting was reported to have told Mika Brzezinski, co-host of MSNBC’s Morning Joe programme, in an early phone call on Friday.
According to Brzezinski he went on to say: “We will outmatch them at every pass and outlast them all.”
The incendiary comment followed a tweet on Thursday in which Trump threatened to preside over a major ramping up of the US nuclear arsenal.
“The United States must greatly strengthen and expand its nuclear capability until such time as the world comes to its senses regarding nukes,” he wrote.

. . .
--------------------
"All mushrooms are edible; but some only once." Croatian proverb. BTW ... Have You Rated Ythans Mom Yet ?? ... ... HERE'S HOW ... (be nice) . ...
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daytripper05
Psychonaut




Registered: 10/30/06
Posts: 6,962
Loc: In my garden
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Re: Obama just took a vicious shot at Israel [Re: demiu5]
#23954083 - 12/24/16 12:04 PM (7 years, 1 month ago) |
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I agree with everything you said. I didn't support going into Iraq either way. The first Iraq war in the early 90's was a little before I was really old enough to know what was going on at the time. But looking at the history and various viewpoints, I don't think it was good thing to destabilize it then, or when G.W. Bush did it.
But what we were attempting to do was very much nation building. That's how it was sold to the people and how it was sold to Congress. The outcome and hindsight is 20/20, so we can call it for it is now. But my point is that we have been nation building for way too long, and why I support Trump. If he doesn't carry through on his agenda, then he'll get lumped into that group too. I have hopes that he can start turning things around and make precedents in the other direction.
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demiu5
humans, lol


Registered: 08/18/05
Posts: 43,948
Loc: the popcorn stadium
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Re: Obama just took a vicious shot at Israel [Re: mescalator]
#23954088 - 12/24/16 12:05 PM (7 years, 1 month ago) |
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Quote:
mescalator said:
Quote:
demiu5 said:
Quote:
mescalator said: Israel should be suported IMO.
Why?
Quote:
They are the only civilized country in that whole cesspool of a region.
this is not a reason to support your claim
Yes it is.
Quote:
And please elaborate who should be supporting them.
The whole civilized world should suppport Israel.
in what way(s) should Israel be supported? why should a nation who has no interest or vestment in Israel support Israel?
again, just because YOU consider a nation to be civilized, is NOT a reason to support them. Politically, there has to be a give-and-take for one nation to support another. What can/does Israel provide the US or any other nation, that warrants our/their support for Israel?
-------------------- channel your inner Larry David
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Prisoner#1
Even Dumber ThanAdvertized!


Registered: 01/22/03
Posts: 193,665
Loc: Pvt. Pubfag NutSuck
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Re: Obama just took a vicious shot at Israel [Re: vinsue]
#23954094 - 12/24/16 12:08 PM (7 years, 1 month ago) |
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Quote:
vinsue said: Trump thinks we need more nukes.
how will we maintain a stockpile after nuking israel and the arab nations if we dont have more nukes
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