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Astral G
Muni


Registered: 12/19/16
Posts: 12
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Frozen Fresh Mushroom Extracts
#23952111 - 12/23/16 04:31 PM (7 years, 1 month ago) |
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Hello all, just wondering if freezing fresh shrooms would aid in extraction as it does with cacti. Would it not also retain the (25%?) of actives lost to the drying process most use before extraction?
In theory, whether your solvent is water, alcohol or honey, freezing fresh would result in
1. a (25%?) higher alkaloid/fruits ratio than dry extraction 2. the full spectrum trace alkaloids of fresh fruits 3. quicker/more effective extraction without cell walls
What are the drawbacks of freezing before extraction? How would the water content of the fruit effect the process?
Would like to hear thoughts on this as it doesn't seem to be a popular method despite the supposed benefits.
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Morel Guy
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Registered: 01/23/13
Posts: 15,577
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Re: Frozen Fresh Mushroom Extracts [Re: Astral G]
#23952342 - 12/23/16 05:38 PM (7 years, 1 month ago) |
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Those are all tinctures or evaporated tinctures. Yes water will dilute and be an impurity.
-------------------- "in sterquiliniis invenitur in stercore invenitur" In filth it will be found in dung it will be found
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Astral G
Muni


Registered: 12/19/16
Posts: 12
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Re: Frozen Fresh Mushroom Extracts [Re: Morel Guy]
#23952622 - 12/23/16 07:10 PM (7 years, 1 month ago) |
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Tinctures are somewhat new to me but a quick search says they are "drugs desolved in alcohol" and may contain water.
I agree that the water would dilute the solution but couldn't you still evaporate to your preferred grams/ml?
I'm not quite sure what you mean by impure. Would it cause it to go bad or oxidize the goodies?
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naum


Registered: 10/09/07
Posts: 4,069
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Re: Frozen Fresh Mushroom Extracts (moved) [Re: Astral G]
#23952812 - 12/23/16 08:38 PM (7 years, 1 month ago) |
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This thread was moved from The Ethnobotanical Garden.
Reason: This thread is better off here as The Garden is a forum for discussion of cultivation of plants.
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Astral G
Muni


Registered: 12/19/16
Posts: 12
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Re: Frozen Fresh Mushroom Extracts (moved) [Re: naum] 1
#23952865 - 12/23/16 09:27 PM (7 years, 1 month ago) |
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my bad, thanks naum.
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krypto2000
Unknown


Registered: 12/05/06
Posts: 11,579
Last seen: 4 years, 3 months
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Re: Frozen Fresh Mushroom Extracts (moved) [Re: Astral G]
#23952978 - 12/23/16 10:41 PM (7 years, 1 month ago) |
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There's no need to freeze mushrooms, they extract very quickly and efficiently with acidic water. If you're worried about losing alkaloids from an extraction then why not just extract immediately after you harvest? I would think that the psilocin would be much more protected within the mushroom than once the mushroom is all torn up from the ice crystals where it can be more readily exposed to oxygen.
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Morel Guy
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Registered: 01/23/13
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Re: Frozen Fresh Mushroom Extracts (moved) [Re: krypto2000]
#23953524 - 12/24/16 07:56 AM (7 years, 1 month ago) |
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Tinctures are sexy and classy. I have zero experience with shroom tinctures.
-------------------- "in sterquiliniis invenitur in stercore invenitur" In filth it will be found in dung it will be found
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Astral G
Muni


Registered: 12/19/16
Posts: 12
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Re: Frozen Fresh Mushroom Extracts (moved) [Re: Morel Guy]
#23953554 - 12/24/16 08:13 AM (7 years, 1 month ago) |
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Haha Morel guy I think we are on the same page. Sexy idea, but no xp.
Alright so the extraction is easy enough for the solvent without having the cell walls burst. And freezing will expose psilocin to O2?
-------------------- This account is run solely during sleep, specifically the deep rim dream state, without the knowledge of my woken, alert states of consciousness. As-Salaam-Alaikum, one love
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Astral G
Muni


Registered: 12/19/16
Posts: 12
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Re: Frozen Fresh Mushroom Extracts (moved) [Re: Astral G]
#23954238 - 12/24/16 01:23 PM (7 years, 1 month ago) |
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So I've been looking for threads on frozen fresh liquid shrooms for about a week now and stumbled upon this dinosour.
https://www.shroomery.org/forums/showflat.php/Cat/0/Number/352518
"This is from experience;
You can freeze fresh shrooms as normal, but it's what you do during the thawing that makes a big difference. The ruptured cell walls that occur during freezing can be bad or good; Bad if you allow oxidizing conditions to prevail during thawing [completely thawing them out on your counter]. Good if you make a preparation/extraction WHILE they are thawing--the ruptured cell walls give more available alkaloids, but if they are made 'available' they are also 'exposed' to whatever surrounding conditions they may be in.
Fungal cell walls are a real tough thing for our digestive tracts, Stamets and Dr. Weil always cook their edible mushrooms until they brown, BOTH for the toxin issue of some species, AND ALSO to liberate additional nutrients. Cooking and freezing both contribute to fungal cell lysis [cooking is said to break down psilocybin, but I have yet to notice it in any of my hot preparations using decent fruits].
When you eat a fresh shroom, a portion of the cells will pass through your small intestine un-lysed, taking their contents to the large intestine and beyond where they cannot be assimilated. The reason complete thawing often turns to nasty goo is that the cell walls have been broken, and now the innards of the cell [where alkaloids and other cpnds are] are exposed to outside air [oxidizing] conditions. I'd bet the bank you'll get better alcohol extractions using a ground up frozen shroom that thaws in the extraction solvent. But of course, if you're going to use frozen fresh fruits, you will want to reduce the time between thawing and munching as much as possible regardless of your preparation/extraction method.
I've had phenomenal results with frozen shrooms put directly into warm Ditty Moore stew. Holy shit yummy."
According to the post, the break down of cell walls would be beneficial to extraction IF thawed in the solvent to reduce oxidation.
But it also suggests to "reduce the time between thawing and munching" when using fresh shrooms. Does this mean that a tincture that contains water will degrade faster than a tincture with no water? Mushroom tea can be stored for years in the freezer and with some citric acid I feel like this method could be stable long term.
Any evidence that this logic is bogus?
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Astral G
Muni


Registered: 12/19/16
Posts: 12
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Re: Frozen Fresh Mushroom Extracts (moved) [Re: Astral G]
#23958329 - 12/26/16 01:11 PM (7 years, 1 month ago) |
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Alright, well 90 grams fresh, frozen, blended with half a fifth of everclear and a lemon getting it's soak on. Will let it sit for a day in the fridge, shaking occasionally, then filter and repeat?
Edited by Astral G (12/26/16 01:18 PM)
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Astral G
Muni


Registered: 12/19/16
Posts: 12
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Re: Frozen Fresh Mushroom Extracts (moved) [Re: Astral G]
#23992035 - 01/08/17 10:27 AM (7 years, 22 days ago) |
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Success! So the everclear/blended frozen shrums sat at room temp, not in the fridge, for 1 day, filtered, repeated for a second soak. The original plan was to use a fan to evaporate it down but at this point there was 600ml of liquid and not much patience. So the yellow juice was triple boiled down to 27ml, or 3ml/g to complete this version of soma . I have yet to notice ANY bluing and from my subjective perspective the trip felt measurably more powerful with less body load than the same dose dry. Very similar to the same dose fresh but slightly more power. We'll se how long it lasts in the freezer but until then, suck it trebecks. 
Next step, I think, is to compare to a dry extract.
-------------------- This account is run solely during sleep, specifically the deep rim dream state, without the knowledge of my woken, alert states of consciousness. As-Salaam-Alaikum, one love
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