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liquidlounge

Registered: 12/22/10
Posts: 9,256
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It's all about being the best...
#23952104 - 12/23/16 04:30 PM (7 years, 1 month ago) |
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Obviously this stems from survival of the fittest and thanks to SOTF we're here. I don't think there's much to be thankful for but thats for another topic.
It seems like most want competition and not peace and love. I am disgusted by it.
-------------------- As far as I assume to know...
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sudly
Darwin's stagger


Registered: 01/05/15
Posts: 10,812
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Re: It's all about being the best... [Re: liquidlounge]
#23952173 - 12/23/16 04:52 PM (7 years, 1 month ago) |
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It's mostly consumer corporations that push those sort of messages with corporate media.
Some corporations are pretty fucking sick.
-------------------- I am whatever Darwin needs me to be.
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RJ Tubs 202


Registered: 09/20/08
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Re: It's all about being the best... [Re: sudly]
#23953152 - 12/24/16 12:33 AM (7 years, 1 month ago) |
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When we aren't competing against others, we compete against our self.
I'm referring to the whole "beating my personal best" syndrome.
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demiu5
humans, lol


Registered: 08/18/05
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Loc: the popcorn stadium
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Re: It's all about being the best... [Re: RJ Tubs 202] 1
#23953804 - 12/24/16 09:58 AM (7 years, 1 month ago) |
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Quote:
RJ Tubs 202 said: When we aren't competing against others, we compete against our self.
I'm referring to the whole "beating my personal best" syndrome.
i think this is ingrained in us. for example, the alpha male in any given primate group is regularly challenged by the non-alphas. assuming the "betas" aren't killed, there is a learning curve, "this failed this time, how can the execution be improved upon to prevent failure"
when there is a direct relation between "working on one-self" and a resulting enhancement of one's station, be it food source, tools, or dominance, the drive continues because more can be had. in humans, specifically, most people don't have a limit of "when is enough enough?"
-------------------- channel your inner Larry David
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Duncan Rowhl
Fiducia Christum



Registered: 10/08/12
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Re: It's all about being the best... [Re: liquidlounge] 2
#23954462 - 12/24/16 03:05 PM (7 years, 1 month ago) |
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Quote:
liquidlounge said: Obviously this stems from survival of the fittest and thanks to SOTF we're here. I don't think there's much to be thankful for but thats for another topic.
It seems like most want competition and not peace and love. I am disgusted by it.
I think the largest misconception is that the 'fittest' is the best.
The 'fittest' is the person (or group) who can endure life on the physical plane to carry genes in the process of reproduction.
Before there is any merit whatsoever in the title 'The fittest', we first need to have an understanding of how desirable it actually is to be in this 'life' existence in constrast to a potential other existence.
The 'fittest' may well just be perpetuating an Earthly life which is actually a hell.
If this is so, the 'fittest', only REMAIN.
Nothing selfish is ultimately rewarding. If a selfish person values themselves far beyond others, they sacrifice feeling all and drawing benefits from the all. The selfish 'fittest' may be winning only a fight they set up for themselves, whilst all 'others' bask together in a paradise.
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LRG
Supernaut

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Re: It's all about being the best... [Re: RJ Tubs 202]
#23954604 - 12/24/16 04:18 PM (7 years, 1 month ago) |
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I'm personally more disgusted with the race to kill our Mother Earth. We knowingly kill Her and all for the sake of material wealth. That's not a race we should be trying to win because then we all lose.
Quote:
RJ Tubs 202 said: When we aren't competing against others, we compete against our self.
I'm referring to the whole "beating my personal best" syndrome.
Ought to accept that your ego can't beat yourSELF. Ego is just a tool the mind uses to subdue our Spirit. Surrender the ego and you will be glad you did. You learn what it means to "flow with the force." You won't even miss the "old you."
-------------------- "I found it is the small everyday deeds of ordinary folk that keep the darkness at bay… small acts of kindness and love.” - Gandalf The Grey. "It is the mark of an educated mind to entertain a thought without accepting it." - Aristotle "I like to think of Jesus like with giant eagle's wings, and singin' lead vocals for Lynyrd Skynyrd with like an angel band and I'm in the front row and I'm HAMMERED DRUNK!" - Cal Naughton Jr. AKA The Magic Man. Abracadabra homes! "Each tear is a drop of poison released." - Anonymous "Could it be you're afraid of what your friends might say if they knew you believe in God above? They should realize before they criticize that God is the only way to Love."
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liquidlounge

Registered: 12/22/10
Posts: 9,256
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Re: It's all about being the best... [Re: Duncan Rowhl]
#23954681 - 12/24/16 04:55 PM (7 years, 1 month ago) |
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Quote:
Duncan Rowhl said:
Quote:
liquidlounge said: Obviously this stems from survival of the fittest and thanks to SOTF we're here. I don't think there's much to be thankful for but thats for another topic.
It seems like most want competition and not peace and love. I am disgusted by it.
I think the largest misconception is that the 'fittest' is the best.
I am sure you do but that won't change the fact that the best will always adapt better to nature than the worse.
-------------------- As far as I assume to know...
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Duncan Rowhl
Fiducia Christum



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Re: It's all about being the best... [Re: liquidlounge] 1
#23954712 - 12/24/16 05:11 PM (7 years, 1 month ago) |
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Quote:
liquidlounge said:
Quote:
Duncan Rowhl said:
Quote:
liquidlounge said: Obviously this stems from survival of the fittest and thanks to SOTF we're here. I don't think there's much to be thankful for but thats for another topic.
It seems like most want competition and not peace and love. I am disgusted by it.
I think the largest misconception is that the 'fittest' is the best.
I am sure you do but that won't change the fact that the best will always adapt better to nature than the worse.
The 'best' at doing worse possibly, if 'nature' is less desirable than the possible alternative reality.
You do not know what is 'best' until you know everything that is so, thus your 'best' is only......as far as you assume to know.
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viktor
psychotechnician



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Re: It's all about being the best... [Re: Duncan Rowhl]
#23954808 - 12/24/16 06:07 PM (7 years, 1 month ago) |
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Why is Christianity such a life-denying, life-hating religion?
Hearing a Bible-thumper going on about how the world is Hell just gives me the creeps. No wonder they can do so much evil without conscience.
-------------------- "They consider me insane but I know that I am a hero living under the eyes of the gods."
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RJ Tubs 202


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Re: It's all about being the best... [Re: demiu5]
#23957613 - 12/26/16 02:37 AM (7 years, 1 month ago) |
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Quote:
demiu5 said:
Quote:
RJ Tubs 202 said:
When we aren't competing against others, we compete against our self.
I'm referring to the whole "beating my personal best" syndrome.
i think this is ingrained in us. for example, the alpha male in any given primate group is regularly challenged by the non-alphas. assuming the "betas" aren't killed, there is a learning curve, "this failed this time, how can the execution be improved upon to prevent failure"
when there is a direct relation between "working on one-self" and a resulting enhancement of one's station, be it food source, tools, or dominance, the drive continues because more can be had. in humans, specifically, most people don't have a limit of "when is enough enough?"
You make an excellent point that's well stated.
Since we no longer live in the jungle, it can help us to disengage from that reaction, right?
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nooneman


Registered: 04/24/09
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Re: It's all about being the best... [Re: liquidlounge] 1
#23957662 - 12/26/16 03:59 AM (7 years, 1 month ago) |
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Human civilization stopped being about that and became more about cooperation the moment we settled down and started farming. This is even more true in the modern age. Bill gates and steve jobs didn't found companies by themselves, they did it in groups with enormous amounts of help. That's how things are accomplished in the modern world: in groups with help. That's why when you run into super competitive assholes, they're always working min wage dead end jobs with no future.
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sudly
Darwin's stagger


Registered: 01/05/15
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Re: It's all about being the best... [Re: nooneman]
#23957665 - 12/26/16 04:02 AM (7 years, 1 month ago) |
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Quote:
Human civilization stopped being about that and became more about cooperation the moment we settled down and started farming.
-------------------- I am whatever Darwin needs me to be.
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viktor
psychotechnician



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Re: It's all about being the best... [Re: sudly]
#23957688 - 12/26/16 05:05 AM (7 years, 1 month ago) |
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Quote:
sudly said:
Quote:
Human civilization stopped being about that and became more about cooperation the moment we settled down and started farming.


Although I do think there is a huge amount of co-operation even in competition, if you look at group hunting tactics that were probably the basis for team sport.
-------------------- "They consider me insane but I know that I am a hero living under the eyes of the gods."
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liquidlounge

Registered: 12/22/10
Posts: 9,256
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Re: It's all about being the best... [Re: nooneman]
#23957870 - 12/26/16 08:53 AM (7 years, 1 month ago) |
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Quote:
nooneman said: Human civilization stopped being about that and became more about cooperation the moment we settled down and started farming. This is even more true in the modern age. Bill gates and steve jobs didn't found companies by themselves, they did it in groups with enormous amounts of help. That's how things are accomplished in the modern world: in groups with help. That's why when you run into super competitive assholes, they're always working min wage dead end jobs with no future.
Human civilization have always co-operated, and this is because we're social herd animals. But that's not the point.
Humans LOVE to compete and feel better than other people, this is how our whole society is built. Wherever I turn my face in modern society there is competition. Whether it's sports, media, fashion, education, warfare etc. It feels like people want survival of the fittest mentality. And I can't blame them because we're all here because of SOTF but it's not a necessity for surviving anymore. We can now do with love and peace.
-------------------- As far as I assume to know...
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demiu5
humans, lol


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Re: It's all about being the best... [Re: RJ Tubs 202]
#23957983 - 12/26/16 10:05 AM (7 years, 1 month ago) |
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Quote:
Duncan Rowhl said: The 'best' at doing worse possibly, if 'nature' is less desirable than the possible alternative reality.
You do not know what is 'best' until you know everything that is so, thus your 'best' is only......as far as you assume to know.
i think this has merit, unfortunately.
Quote:
LRG said: I'm personally more disgusted with the race to kill our Mother Earth. We knowingly kill Her and all for the sake of material wealth. That's not a race we should be trying to win because then we all lose.
i see it as there existing three camps:
one camp, the religious "afterlife" camp, which discounts all actions performed during this experience of life, because this experience is nothing more than a stepping stone to the next stepping stone (heaven or hell, to simplify) which, presumably, doesn't occur on Earth. Therefore, an "any-means-necessary" attitude to gain material and/or social comforts prevails, with utter abandon for future generations' or any other species' present/future well-being
the second camp are religious/spiritual people devoid of the "afterlife-complex" and non-spiritual people who simply don't care and still feel this planet belongs solely to the human species, and that we have "dominion" over it and all it contains their attitude isn't "our actions and the subsequent consequences don't matter" as of the first camp, but sheer ignorance towards or denial of action -----> consequence.
the third camp consists of religious/spiritual people and non-spiritual people who are aware of the direct, immediate consequences of actions, have a general respect for this planet and its inhabitants and concern for the well-being and health of others borne out of that respect, and largely or entirely disagree with the contamination/destruction of the environment and its constituents for short- or long-term fleeting financial gains
i've tried to imagine a fourth perspective, but i'm failing at it.
Quote:
LRG said:
Quote:
RJ Tubs 202 said: When we aren't competing against others, we compete against our self.
I'm referring to the whole "beating my personal best" syndrome.
Ought to accept that your ego can't beat yourSELF. Ego is just a tool the mind uses to subdue our Spirit. Surrender the ego and you will be glad you did. You learn what it means to "flow with the force." You won't even miss the "old you."
"beating oneself" is something of a misnomer. self-improvement and rising beyond one's previous achievement, imo, IS self cooperating with ego in effort to transcend one's current state of self-ego. while the end goal may be beyond self, as referenced in my previous post, the moments of working towards improvement is not beyond the self.
Quote:
viktor said:
Quote:
sudly said:
Quote:
Human civilization stopped being about that and became more about cooperation the moment we settled down and started farming.


Although I do think there is a huge amount of co-operation even in competition, if you look at group hunting tactics that were probably the basis for team sport.
i disagree, sudly. and i think viktor has a point on this matter. hunting/gathering, for most primates, is the pinnacle of cooperation. agriculture is a fragmentation of that inter-species cooperation, especially when "draft" animals are brought in or farm machinery in modern day. that isn't to say that all forms of agriculture are not or can't be performed under a paradigm of cooperation, just that the initial generations of farming was not, IMO. People spread out, the focus fell on the individual family unit, compared to a grouping of familial units; as more was desired, and for whatever reason became a "necessity", violence erupted between neighboring communities (think on the metaphor of Cain and Able). That same violence has become inherent in modern day, large-scale agriculture in the form of clear-cuts, habitat destruction, removal of native populations from "prime agricultural lands", pollution, and so on. Further still, as technologies increase the production/nutrition value of food commodities, governments seize what was previously farm land (in America, much of which was initially seized by farmers/government) through violence to expand the room for housing or non-ag commercial industry.
so, no, i don't see agriculture as inherently increasing direct cooperation. cooperative agriculture takes effort, and is most successful with an established and agreed upon doctrine.
Quote:
RJ Tubs 202 said:
Quote:
demiu5 said:
Quote:
RJ Tubs 202 said:
When we aren't competing against others, we compete against our self.
I'm referring to the whole "beating my personal best" syndrome.
i think this is ingrained in us. for example, the alpha male in any given primate group is regularly challenged by the non-alphas. assuming the "betas" aren't killed, there is a learning curve, "this failed this time, how can the execution be improved upon to prevent failure"
when there is a direct relation between "working on one-self" and a resulting enhancement of one's station, be it food source, tools, or dominance, the drive continues because more can be had. in humans, specifically, most people don't have a limit of "when is enough enough?"
You make an excellent point that's well stated.
Since we no longer live in the jungle, it can help us to disengage from that reaction, right?
we no longer live in tropical jungles, but we've transferred and translated the "jungle" into our (our = broadly) own terms. i see little to no signs of disengaging. even monasteries or temples have fallout or internal [political/social] issues.
-------------------- channel your inner Larry David
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liquidlounge

Registered: 12/22/10
Posts: 9,256
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Re: It's all about being the best... [Re: Duncan Rowhl]
#23958008 - 12/26/16 10:21 AM (7 years, 1 month ago) |
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Quote:
Duncan Rowhl said: You do not know what is 'best' until you know everything that is so, thus your 'best' is only......as far as you assume to know.
You do not know anything until you know everything that is so. What's your point?
Survival of the fittest:
the continued existence of organisms which are best adapted to their environment, with the extinction of others, as a concept in the Darwinian theory of evolution.
-------------------- As far as I assume to know...
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Duncan Rowhl
Fiducia Christum



Registered: 10/08/12
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Re: It's all about being the best... [Re: liquidlounge] 1
#23958348 - 12/26/16 01:21 PM (7 years, 1 month ago) |
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Quote:
liquidlounge said:
Quote:
Duncan Rowhl said: You do not know what is 'best' until you know everything that is so, thus your 'best' is only......as far as you assume to know.
You do not know anything until you know everything that is so. What's your point?
Survival of the fittest:
the continued existence of organisms which are best adapted to their environment, with the extinction of others, as a concept in the Darwinian theory of evolution.
The point was understood by someone above, who agreed, but I'll elaborate for your clarity.
The definition of SOTF is known to me, but the condition of being 'best' is only applicable within the context of nature. It cannot be known to be best - ultimately, unless we know how desirable nature is in contrast to a possible alternative. 'Ultimately' is the stringent point and clincher.
If you were born in a cave and trapped there unknowingly, a trickle of water down the rock face could be your banquet.
The world vends for what's in a mans heart. If you yearn for nature, to be the 'best' within it, it will serve you up the conditions for your to exercise that desire - repeatedly. Look beyond, yearn for less of 'nature' and you'll potentially excel beyond trying to be 'best' at something which could potentially be a fools game.
Edited by Duncan Rowhl (12/26/16 01:35 PM)
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The Blind Ass
Bodhi



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Re: It's all about being the best... [Re: Duncan Rowhl]
#23958365 - 12/26/16 01:25 PM (7 years, 1 month ago) |
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Survival of the fittest , ok.
But its actually survival of the one most adapted to the flux of a shape shifting like environment.
And that adaptation is not something static - it could be for all we know... some guy who is a dork hiding in a underground bunker on the PC all day that is the last man standing.
Or someone who is away from all the danger by chance and ends up surviving till the end -ie they are the last one standing.
-------------------- Give me Liberty caps -or- give me Death caps
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demiu5
humans, lol


Registered: 08/18/05
Posts: 43,948
Loc: the popcorn stadium
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Quote:
The Blind Ass said: Survival of the fittest , ok.
But its actually survival of the one most adapted to the flux of a shape shifting like environment.
And that adaptation is not something static - it could be for all we know... some guy who is a dork hiding in a underground bunker on the PC all day that is the last man standing.
Or someone who is away from all the danger by chance and ends up surviving till the end -ie they are the last one standing.
survival of the fittest is specific to a biological entity or process. one's physical location is irrelevant, in the sense you broach, to their fitness.
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falcon



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Re: It's all about being the best... [Re: demiu5]
#23958443 - 12/26/16 02:08 PM (7 years, 1 month ago) |
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Nah, you can't have fitness without a location and a relationship between the location or locations and the fitters. And if what sounds very much like luck happens to be a factor in making something fit, it is a factor.
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demiu5
humans, lol


Registered: 08/18/05
Posts: 43,948
Loc: the popcorn stadium
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Re: It's all about being the best... [Re: falcon]
#23958465 - 12/26/16 02:18 PM (7 years, 1 month ago) |
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Quote:
falcon said: Nah, you can't have fitness without a location and a relationship between the location or locations and the fitters. And if what sounds very much like luck happens to be a factor in making something fit, it is a factor.
in regards to the point the blnd ass was trying to make, yes, you can. fittest generally relates to dna and/or developmental stages. for an adult locked in a bunker on a PC, the biological development phases are essentially over. it's fitness is determined and highly unlikely to change.
during the developmental stages, yes location matters.
-------------------- channel your inner Larry David
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falcon



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Re: It's all about being the best... [Re: demiu5]
#23958477 - 12/26/16 02:25 PM (7 years, 1 month ago) |
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I think what blindass was saying was that if you are still alive and everyone else is either too fucked up to proceed or dead, you're the fittest. It's an exaggeration, but I think it illustrates that tending to be physically fit in the sense of healthy and alert is not the only factor that determines fitness in an generational evolutionary sense.
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Duncan Rowhl
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Re: It's all about being the best... [Re: falcon]
#23958521 - 12/26/16 02:49 PM (7 years, 1 month ago) |
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It's said that intellect has no part in the SOTF model.
That in itself tells me that it really isn't a rule to heed almost as if the rule itself was concocted as a result of following in its own mistake.
The rule suggests animalism primarily (certainly to the layman, who takes it at face value) and circumvents all the subjective conditions which actually define the ongoing existence of genes.
Charisma alone, which is a psychological condition, plays an astronomical part in life, development and reproduction.
The model tends to just stand as a very small gun in an armoury against religion and spirituality. For anyone who's had good experience in the 'spiritual', they'll know that the spirit can accommodate pretty much any body and object.
Genes are mere bricks of a house.
The house can be accommodated by anyone.
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The Blind Ass
Bodhi



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Re: It's all about being the best... [Re: falcon]
#23958547 - 12/26/16 03:02 PM (7 years, 1 month ago) |
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exactly - you may be the physically fittest with the best genetics or have a genius IQ - but at the end of the day it is the one who has adapted - unknowingly - or knowingly - to the environmental flux in whatever way is most suited to the current niche - will "win" .
ex. Basically if people had a war and ww3 unleashed all the nukes and everything else and destroyed the planet from being habitable to any living creatures - those on the International Space Station would be the last alive and so they "win", by the OP's erroneous definition/qualification of SOTF , aka, adaptation.
Those things can help you adapt to say - making money, not dying of easily avoidable diseases, or harsh environmental conditions etc, but it is not the end all be all - by OPS definition that is.
Survival of the fittest is not eugenics, eugenics is often confused with SOTF - which is the social term for something more in the realm of the environment and biology - adaptation/mutation... it is fortuitous...which later is what is left to pass on if that opportunity is available at the "end", or whatever now happens to be left when others have passed on and something is left to go on , thus it is.
Obviously being fit and intelligent is an advantage in a very niche way - but now a days the rules have changed, because the game has changed - yet the old one is still out there if our experimental society / civilization is destroyed or earth made uninhabitable to the homo sapiens.
Now it is a game within a game so to speak. Anyways just ranting not being super critical... taking things to their logical absurd is a good way to demonstrate somethings strength in terms of how well it adapts to close scrutiny with the mind. heh.
-------------------- Give me Liberty caps -or- give me Death caps
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liquidlounge

Registered: 12/22/10
Posts: 9,256
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Re: It's all about being the best... [Re: Duncan Rowhl]
#23958554 - 12/26/16 03:05 PM (7 years, 1 month ago) |
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Quote:
Duncan Rowhl said:
Quote:
liquidlounge said:
Quote:
Duncan Rowhl said: You do not know what is 'best' until you know everything that is so, thus your 'best' is only......as far as you assume to know.
You do not know anything until you know everything that is so. What's your point?
Survival of the fittest:
the continued existence of organisms which are best adapted to their environment, with the extinction of others, as a concept in the Darwinian theory of evolution.
The point was understood by someone above, who agreed, but I'll elaborate for your clarity.
The definition of SOTF is known to me, but the condition of being 'best' is only applicable within the context of nature. It cannot be known to be best - ultimately, unless we know how desirable nature is in contrast to a possible alternative. 'Ultimately' is the stringent point and clincher.
If you were born in a cave and trapped there unknowingly, a trickle of water down the rock face could be your banquet.
The world vends for what's in a mans heart. If you yearn for nature, to be the 'best' within it, it will serve you up the conditions for your to exercise that desire - repeatedly. Look beyond, yearn for less of 'nature' and you'll potentially excel beyond trying to be 'best' at something which could potentially be a fools game.
No, I understood what you meant. But you had no point in the sentence I quoted. What you said here: ¨
Quote:
Duncan Rowhl said: You do not know what is 'best' until you know everything that is so, thus your 'best' is only......as far as you assume to know.
Goes for everything in life.
-------------------- As far as I assume to know...
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The Blind Ass
Bodhi



Registered: 08/16/16
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Loc: The Primordial Mind
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Re: It's all about being the best... [Re: liquidlounge]
#23958558 - 12/26/16 03:10 PM (7 years, 1 month ago) |
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Frankly put - since we can project - we know none of any one alive is the best suited for adaptation - in the light of the concept that is - but a concept is just a concept - and life and our adaptation to it and its environmental conditions we find ourselves in is an ongoing process - so being the best is utterly subjective to the individual, it can be looked at objectively but the terms and conditions by which we judge it will shape shift in the generations to come, so once again its like asking who is the "best" guitar player - subjective... who is the best at life? The last one standing! So we are all the best for now haha
-------------------- Give me Liberty caps -or- give me Death caps
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liquidlounge

Registered: 12/22/10
Posts: 9,256
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Quote:
The Blind Ass said: ex. Basically if people had a war and ww3 unleashed all the nukes and everything else and destroyed the planet from being habitable to any living creatures - those on the International Space Station would be the last alive and so they "win", by the OP's erroneous definition/qualification of SOTF , aka, adaptation.
Oh boy. It seems to me that you struggle with reading comprehension. As you have clearly not understood my position.
I have said being the best stems from Survival of the fittest. It's from the same mentality. I never said it's the exact same thing. The desire to win is the same mental desire to survive. To beat another contestant or eat another animal for surviving - it's the same mentality, put another human or animal down to put yourself up. This is very basic.
-------------------- As far as I assume to know...
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Duncan Rowhl
Fiducia Christum



Registered: 10/08/12
Posts: 2,659
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Last seen: 1 year, 5 months
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Re: It's all about being the best... [Re: liquidlounge]
#23958577 - 12/26/16 03:18 PM (7 years, 1 month ago) |
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Quote:
liquidlounge said:
Quote:
Duncan Rowhl said:
Quote:
liquidlounge said:
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Duncan Rowhl said: You do not know what is 'best' until you know everything that is so, thus your 'best' is only......as far as you assume to know.
You do not know anything until you know everything that is so. What's your point?
Survival of the fittest:
the continued existence of organisms which are best adapted to their environment, with the extinction of others, as a concept in the Darwinian theory of evolution.
The point was understood by someone above, who agreed, but I'll elaborate for your clarity.
The definition of SOTF is known to me, but the condition of being 'best' is only applicable within the context of nature. It cannot be known to be best - ultimately, unless we know how desirable nature is in contrast to a possible alternative. 'Ultimately' is the stringent point and clincher.
If you were born in a cave and trapped there unknowingly, a trickle of water down the rock face could be your banquet.
The world vends for what's in a mans heart. If you yearn for nature, to be the 'best' within it, it will serve you up the conditions for your to exercise that desire - repeatedly. Look beyond, yearn for less of 'nature' and you'll potentially excel beyond trying to be 'best' at something which could potentially be a fools game.
No, I understood what you meant. But you had no point in the sentence I quoted. What you said here: ¨
Quote:
Duncan Rowhl said: You do not know what is 'best' until you know everything that is so, thus your 'best' is only......as far as you assume to know.
Goes for everything in life.
The point was relevant and was extracted from your own signature.
You agree then that it applies to the SOTF model and thus cannot justify what is ultimately 'best'.
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The Blind Ass
Bodhi



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Re: It's all about being the best... [Re: liquidlounge]
#23958626 - 12/26/16 03:47 PM (7 years, 1 month ago) |
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liquidlounge said:
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The Blind Ass said: ex. Basically if people had a war and ww3 unleashed all the nukes and everything else and destroyed the planet from being habitable to any living creatures - those on the International Space Station would be the last alive and so they "win", by the OP's erroneous definition/qualification of SOTF , aka, adaptation.
Oh boy. It seems to me that you struggle with reading comprehension. As you have clearly not understood my position.
I have said being the best stems from Survival of the fittest. It's from the same mentality. I never said it's the exact same thing. The desire to win is the same mental desire to survive. To beat another contestant or eat another animal for surviving - it's the same mentality, put another human or animal down to put yourself up. This is very basic.
Did you grow up like that? If so was it traumatizing? I had a very different introduction to the very basics of life, so thats why I am asking. It is a mentality, but I imagine it as flawed in the long term (but suitable maybe for a certain period of time in our species history)and leading to more pain and suffering than necessary.
Any mentality or belief is hypothetical, able to be interchanged with a multitude of other ones. Maybe this mentality helped you survive or cope as an individual growing up in the world around you.
-------------------- Give me Liberty caps -or- give me Death caps
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liquidlounge

Registered: 12/22/10
Posts: 9,256
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Quote:
The Blind Ass said:
Quote:
liquidlounge said:
Quote:
The Blind Ass said: ex. Basically if people had a war and ww3 unleashed all the nukes and everything else and destroyed the planet from being habitable to any living creatures - those on the International Space Station would be the last alive and so they "win", by the OP's erroneous definition/qualification of SOTF , aka, adaptation.
Oh boy. It seems to me that you struggle with reading comprehension. As you have clearly not understood my position.
I have said being the best stems from Survival of the fittest. It's from the same mentality. I never said it's the exact same thing. The desire to win is the same mental desire to survive. To beat another contestant or eat another animal for surviving - it's the same mentality, put another human or animal down to put yourself up. This is very basic.
Did you grow up like that? If so was it traumatizing? I had a very different introduction to the very basics of life, so thats why I am asking.
You're The Blind Ass, not me. This and your reading comprehension makes me think you're projecting.
The rest of what you wrote is hogwosh.
-------------------- As far as I assume to know...
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liquidlounge

Registered: 12/22/10
Posts: 9,256
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Re: It's all about being the best... [Re: Duncan Rowhl]
#23958701 - 12/26/16 04:23 PM (7 years, 1 month ago) |
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Quote:
Duncan Rowhl said: The point was relevant and was extracted from your own signature.
You agree then that it applies to the SOTF model and thus cannot justify what is ultimately 'best'.
Let's try to be a bit more practical.
If there is a survival contest between two gladiators in ancient Rome the winner will be crowned as the best.
Nothing can ULTIMATELY be justified, AFAIK. But from what we assume to know, things can be justified.
-------------------- As far as I assume to know...
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The Blind Ass
Bodhi



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Posts: 26,658
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Re: It's all about being the best... [Re: liquidlounge]
#23958707 - 12/26/16 04:24 PM (7 years, 1 month ago) |
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Think you may have misread me on that one brother - I definitely misread your original post , infact I didnt even read more than the first sentance, I was responding to someone else in the thread, but since you talked about it as a mentality when it is actually a biology concept I said you had err'd. Also I was asking if you grew up with that mentality. I did not , that is why I asked - because I do not know it from personal use besides reading about a little bit in some biology classes.
And what I said earlier was hog wash, I dont know that mentality, just it as a concept for individual biological adaptation to an environment - I merely speculated upon it by bringing it to its to its absurd logical extreme.
"You're the Blind Ass, not me" - is that from having the mentality of survival of the fittest?
and what was I projecting? Just wondering. Thanks for your time on this.
Edited by The Blind Ass (12/26/16 04:33 PM)
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Duncan Rowhl
Fiducia Christum



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Re: It's all about being the best... [Re: liquidlounge]
#23958737 - 12/26/16 04:40 PM (7 years, 1 month ago) |
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Quote:
liquidlounge said:
Quote:
Duncan Rowhl said: The point was relevant and was extracted from your own signature.
You agree then that it applies to the SOTF model and thus cannot justify what is ultimately 'best'.
Let's try to be a bit more practical.
If there is a survival contest between two gladiators in ancient Rome the winner will be crowned as the best.
Nothing can ULTIMATELY be justified, AFAIK. But from what we assume to know, things can be justified.
Quote:
liquidlounge said:
Quote:
Duncan Rowhl said: The point was relevant and was extracted from your own signature.
You agree then that it applies to the SOTF model and thus cannot justify what is ultimately 'best'.
Let's try to be a bit more practical.
If there is a survival contest between two gladiators in ancient Rome the winner will be crowned as the best.
Nothing can ULTIMATELY be justified, AFAIK. But from what we assume to know, things can be justified.
This then represents agreement of the only point that was made.
An expansive mind accommodates for the possible and doesnt bank all chips in the provable.
You are going to efforts to be the 'fittest', certainly in reply to the other person in conversation with you here, so this lends to my understanding of why you may apdot a stance which defends the SOTF model and indeed, why you may adhere to it.
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The Blind Ass
Bodhi



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Posts: 26,658
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Re: It's all about being the best... [Re: Duncan Rowhl]
#23958743 - 12/26/16 04:43 PM (7 years, 1 month ago) |
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Quote:
Duncan Rowhl said:
You are going to efforts to be the 'fittest', certainly in reply to the other person in conversation with you here, so this lends to my understanding of why you may apdot a stance which defends the SOTF model and indeed, why you may adhere to it.
Ah , yes. I see it. So a perceived dominance over others? I still do not understand it as the OP says - as a mentality - is it composed of being more self centered, selfish, domineering, narcissistic, physically fit, high IQ?
Oh and OP, I got you now. Your expressing your distaste at the notion? I thought for a moment maybe you had grown up with it or been raised around that type of, as you call it, mentality.
Because the evolution concept of it has to do with adaptation in regards to an individual organism adapting to find a niche in the environment it can survive in well enough to live until it reproduces and continues its species' life cycle , as well as mutations on a cellular level.
does it apply on the internet? Everyone is basically anonymous.
-------------------- Give me Liberty caps -or- give me Death caps
Edited by The Blind Ass (12/26/16 05:27 PM)
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liquidlounge

Registered: 12/22/10
Posts: 9,256
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Re: It's all about being the best... [Re: Duncan Rowhl]
#23958813 - 12/26/16 05:10 PM (7 years, 1 month ago) |
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Quote:
Duncan Rowhl said: You are going to efforts to be the 'fittest', certainly in reply to the other person in conversation with you here, so this lends to my understanding of why you may apdot a stance which defends the SOTF model and indeed, why you may adhere to it.
And you are no different.
Jesus christ, do you also struggle with reading comprehension? I'm clearly not in favour of SOTF, go on and read the thread once more before you spew bullshit.
-------------------- As far as I assume to know...
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Duncan Rowhl
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Re: It's all about being the best... [Re: liquidlounge]
#23958825 - 12/26/16 05:15 PM (7 years, 1 month ago) |
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Quote:
liquidlounge said:
Quote:
Duncan Rowhl said: You are going to efforts to be the 'fittest', certainly in reply to the other person in conversation with you here, so this lends to my understanding of why you may apdot a stance which defends the SOTF model and indeed, why you may adhere to it.
And you are no different.
Jesus christ, do you also struggle with reading comprehension? I'm clearly not in favour of SOTF, go on and read the thread once more before you spew bullshit.
With respect, there's a difference in feeling which is projected through ones choice of delivery. My contribution is based upon interest in human evolution, philosophy and behaviour which evolves with each instance of your revolt. Aiming to reach mutual agreement differs from trying to establish personal, exclusive philosophy.
Swearing and use of certain words reveal your demeanour and undertone of goal, which coincidentally, has been noted twice, to the same conclusion - subjectively.
There are efforts made for the benefit of all, as opposed to efforts clearly made for the end of oneself.
In context, this is Q.E.D. in its most literal and effective form and speaks for your position which demands no further elaboration or attempt at justification.
Edited by Duncan Rowhl (12/26/16 05:24 PM)
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liquidlounge

Registered: 12/22/10
Posts: 9,256
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Re: It's all about being the best... [Re: Duncan Rowhl]
#23958854 - 12/26/16 05:31 PM (7 years, 1 month ago) |
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You try to speak for me now, if I were like you, I would try to argue that you're trying to manipulate me. It's evident you're jumping to conclusion with nothing at hand. I didn't swear, and the certain words I used are not against the rules.
-------------------- As far as I assume to know...
Edited by liquidlounge (12/26/16 07:33 PM)
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liquidlounge

Registered: 12/22/10
Posts: 9,256
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Quote:
The Blind Ass said: Oh and OP, I got you now. Your expressing your distaste at the notion? I thought for a moment maybe you had grown up with it or been raised around that type of, as you call it, mentality.
I was raised to question that type of mentality. I have seen it all my life in society, it's everywhere and it bothers me.
-------------------- As far as I assume to know...
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Duncan Rowhl
Fiducia Christum



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Re: It's all about being the best... [Re: liquidlounge]
#23958899 - 12/26/16 05:48 PM (7 years, 1 month ago) |
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liquidlounge said: You try to speak for me now, if I were like you, I would try to argue that you're trying to manipulate me. It's evident you're jumping to conclusion with nothing at hand. I didn't swear, and the certain words I used are not against the rules, so behave yourself.
You like to think you're smart Duncan, I can tell. 
I only speak for the impression you put forth and evidence begs no manipulataion.
'Bullshit' is swearing which is significant of personal angst expressed. It is vocal / written aggression.
If your game is to simply 'win', then you could in many instances, convince yourself that you've achieved that, but the true win is in the revelation that you are essentially the next and all.
Despite the claim that you hate competition associated with SOTF, you are serving in this very expression as a main contributor which lends towards it.
'Jesus Christ' in slur, in turn, propely understood, expresses knosis that everyone is indeed like each other.
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liquidlounge said: It seems like most want competition and not peace and love. I am disgusted by it.
First look to the self and it in turn, this initiates the change you wish to perceive in others,
The 'leap of faith' is acting out of true heart whilst the world that you perceive is attempting to impose upon you, its immoral ways.
When you change, as does your perception.
Edited by Duncan Rowhl (12/26/16 06:07 PM)
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liquidlounge

Registered: 12/22/10
Posts: 9,256
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Re: It's all about being the best... [Re: Duncan Rowhl]
#23958953 - 12/26/16 06:20 PM (7 years, 1 month ago) |
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Quote:
Duncan Rowhl said:
Quote:
liquidlounge said: You try to speak for me now, if I were like you, I would try to argue that you're trying to manipulate me. It's evident you're jumping to conclusion with nothing at hand. I didn't swear, and the certain words I used are not against the rules, so behave yourself.
You like to think you're smart Duncan, I can tell. 
I only speak for the impression you put forth and evidence begs no manipulataion.
'Bullshit' is swearing which is significant of personal angst expressed. It is vocal / written aggression.
If your game is to simply 'win', then you could in many instances, convince yourself that you've achieved that, but the true win is in the revelation that you are essentially the next and all.
The 'Jesus Christ' slur, in turn, may ring from a different angle.
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liquidlounge said: It seems like most want competition and not peace and love. I am disgusted by it.
First look to the self and then practice the change you wish to perceive in others.
Here you try to speak for me by claiming to know my "demeanour and undertone of goal":
Quote:
Duncan Rowhl said: Swearing and use of certain words reveal your demeanour and undertone of goal, which coincidentally, has been noted twice, to the same conclusion - subjectively.
I could be laughing my ass of and find this humorous, you don't know shit about how I feel. But it's clear to me that you like to think you do.
I didn't know bullshit was swearing, back that shit up and I will admit to be in the wrong.
Quote:
Duncan Rowhl said: First look to the self and then practice the change you wish to perceive in others.
Are you not trying to have the best position in this conversation?
-------------------- As far as I assume to know...
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Duncan Rowhl
Fiducia Christum



Registered: 10/08/12
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Re: It's all about being the best... [Re: liquidlounge]
#23958973 - 12/26/16 06:28 PM (7 years, 1 month ago) |
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You still continue the angst and the answer to your initial question pertains to be in yourself.
When you stop to understand, you'll know that knowing is in everyone.
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liquidlounge

Registered: 12/22/10
Posts: 9,256
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Re: It's all about being the best... [Re: Duncan Rowhl]
#23959018 - 12/26/16 06:53 PM (7 years, 1 month ago) |
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Quote:
Duncan Rowhl said: You still continue the angst and the answer to your initial question pertains to be in yourself.
You still claim to know what I feel. And you're not right.
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Duncan Rowhl said: Despite the claim that you hate competition associated with SOTF, you are serving in this very expression as a main contributor which lends towards it.
I will give you kudos for what was written above, I have not been a role model in this thread.
-------------------- As far as I assume to know...
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Buster_Brown
L'une


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Re: It's all about being the best... [Re: Duncan Rowhl]
#23959023 - 12/26/16 06:56 PM (7 years, 1 month ago) |
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Expletive-a vulgar word or phrase (such as “Damn it!”)
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Duncan Rowhl
Fiducia Christum



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Re: It's all about being the best... [Re: liquidlounge]
#23959036 - 12/26/16 07:01 PM (7 years, 1 month ago) |
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I see what you project and alas, two people did.
A contributor needn't be a role model - and in this case, one who does not solve a problem which they themselves highlite.
All that remains is to ask yourself is what you are contributing yourself in a bid to solve your initial question which has bothered you enough to deem posting for public guidance, which you reject readily.
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liquidlounge

Registered: 12/22/10
Posts: 9,256
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Re: It's all about being the best... [Re: Buster_Brown]
#23959063 - 12/26/16 07:19 PM (7 years, 1 month ago) |
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Quote:
Buster_Brown said: Expletive-a vulgar word or phrase (such as “Damn it!”)
Then I was wrong.
-------------------- As far as I assume to know...
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Buster_Brown
L'une


Registered: 09/17/11
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Re: It's all about being the best... [Re: liquidlounge]
#23959074 - 12/26/16 07:25 PM (7 years, 1 month ago) |
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No. Civilities are merely formal claptrap.
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liquidlounge

Registered: 12/22/10
Posts: 9,256
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Re: It's all about being the best... [Re: Duncan Rowhl]
#23959121 - 12/26/16 07:48 PM (7 years, 1 month ago) |
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Quote:
Duncan Rowhl said:
Quote:
liquidlounge said:
Quote:
Duncan Rowhl said: The point was relevant and was extracted from your own signature.
You agree then that it applies to the SOTF model and thus cannot justify what is ultimately 'best'.
Let's try to be a bit more practical.
If there is a survival contest between two gladiators in ancient Rome the winner will be crowned as the best.
Nothing can ULTIMATELY be justified, AFAIK. But from what we assume to know, things can be justified.
Quote:
liquidlounge said:
Quote:
Duncan Rowhl said: The point was relevant and was extracted from your own signature.
You agree then that it applies to the SOTF model and thus cannot justify what is ultimately 'best'.
Let's try to be a bit more practical.
If there is a survival contest between two gladiators in ancient Rome the winner will be crowned as the best.
Nothing can ULTIMATELY be justified, AFAIK. But from what we assume to know, things can be justified.
This then represents agreement of the only point that was made.
An expansive mind accommodates for the possible and doesnt bank all chips in the provable.
You are going to efforts to be the 'fittest', certainly in reply to the other person in conversation with you here, so this lends to my understanding of why you may apdot a stance which defends the SOTF model and indeed, why you may adhere to it.
I retract my statement, you had a point. But is the point of importance? Why is it relevant to my question?
-------------------- As far as I assume to know...
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liquidlounge

Registered: 12/22/10
Posts: 9,256
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Re: It's all about being the best... [Re: Duncan Rowhl]
#23959128 - 12/26/16 07:49 PM (7 years, 1 month ago) |
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Quote:
Duncan Rowhl said: All that remains is to ask yourself is what you are contributing yourself in a bid to solve your initial question which has bothered you enough to deem posting for public guidance, which you reject readily.
Many more things remain, Duncan.
-------------------- As far as I assume to know...
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Duncan Rowhl
Fiducia Christum



Registered: 10/08/12
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Loc: UK
Last seen: 1 year, 5 months
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Re: It's all about being the best... [Re: liquidlounge]
#23959145 - 12/26/16 07:55 PM (7 years, 1 month ago) |
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You'll find that's the primary answer to your question and sole importance.
You get to see what's left, when you've done your part, which is all that can ever be asked of you.
Edited by Duncan Rowhl (12/26/16 08:02 PM)
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redgreenvines
irregular verb


Registered: 04/08/04
Posts: 37,539
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Re: It's all about being the best... [Re: Duncan Rowhl]
#23964842 - 12/29/16 08:00 AM (7 years, 1 month ago) |
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the protection industry which includes the best fighters working for the queen, working for the drug cartels, working in the pentagon, even operating in the schoolyard at recess, has taken it's share of taxes from me in return for more oppression and the off chance that they may champion me against some evil invader or dragon.
my response has always been to keep to the edge of the thicket, and to appear as marginal and enigmatically non-threatening as possible. I try to elude the grasp of the whole trogladytic competitive process.
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The Blind Ass
Bodhi



Registered: 08/16/16
Posts: 26,658
Loc: The Primordial Mind
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amen...
-------------------- Give me Liberty caps -or- give me Death caps
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