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demiu5
humans, lol


Registered: 08/18/05
Posts: 43,948
Loc: the popcorn stadium
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Re: It's all about being the best... [Re: falcon]
#23958465 - 12/26/16 02:18 PM (7 years, 1 month ago) |
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Quote:
falcon said: Nah, you can't have fitness without a location and a relationship between the location or locations and the fitters. And if what sounds very much like luck happens to be a factor in making something fit, it is a factor.
in regards to the point the blnd ass was trying to make, yes, you can. fittest generally relates to dna and/or developmental stages. for an adult locked in a bunker on a PC, the biological development phases are essentially over. it's fitness is determined and highly unlikely to change.
during the developmental stages, yes location matters.
-------------------- channel your inner Larry David
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falcon



Registered: 04/01/02
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Last seen: 1 day, 5 hours
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Re: It's all about being the best... [Re: demiu5]
#23958477 - 12/26/16 02:25 PM (7 years, 1 month ago) |
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I think what blindass was saying was that if you are still alive and everyone else is either too fucked up to proceed or dead, you're the fittest. It's an exaggeration, but I think it illustrates that tending to be physically fit in the sense of healthy and alert is not the only factor that determines fitness in an generational evolutionary sense.
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Duncan Rowhl
Fiducia Christum



Registered: 10/08/12
Posts: 2,659
Loc: UK
Last seen: 1 year, 5 months
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Re: It's all about being the best... [Re: falcon]
#23958521 - 12/26/16 02:49 PM (7 years, 1 month ago) |
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It's said that intellect has no part in the SOTF model.
That in itself tells me that it really isn't a rule to heed almost as if the rule itself was concocted as a result of following in its own mistake.
The rule suggests animalism primarily (certainly to the layman, who takes it at face value) and circumvents all the subjective conditions which actually define the ongoing existence of genes.
Charisma alone, which is a psychological condition, plays an astronomical part in life, development and reproduction.
The model tends to just stand as a very small gun in an armoury against religion and spirituality. For anyone who's had good experience in the 'spiritual', they'll know that the spirit can accommodate pretty much any body and object.
Genes are mere bricks of a house.
The house can be accommodated by anyone.
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The Blind Ass
Bodhi



Registered: 08/16/16
Posts: 26,658
Loc: The Primordial Mind
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Re: It's all about being the best... [Re: falcon]
#23958547 - 12/26/16 03:02 PM (7 years, 1 month ago) |
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exactly - you may be the physically fittest with the best genetics or have a genius IQ - but at the end of the day it is the one who has adapted - unknowingly - or knowingly - to the environmental flux in whatever way is most suited to the current niche - will "win" .
ex. Basically if people had a war and ww3 unleashed all the nukes and everything else and destroyed the planet from being habitable to any living creatures - those on the International Space Station would be the last alive and so they "win", by the OP's erroneous definition/qualification of SOTF , aka, adaptation.
Those things can help you adapt to say - making money, not dying of easily avoidable diseases, or harsh environmental conditions etc, but it is not the end all be all - by OPS definition that is.
Survival of the fittest is not eugenics, eugenics is often confused with SOTF - which is the social term for something more in the realm of the environment and biology - adaptation/mutation... it is fortuitous...which later is what is left to pass on if that opportunity is available at the "end", or whatever now happens to be left when others have passed on and something is left to go on , thus it is.
Obviously being fit and intelligent is an advantage in a very niche way - but now a days the rules have changed, because the game has changed - yet the old one is still out there if our experimental society / civilization is destroyed or earth made uninhabitable to the homo sapiens.
Now it is a game within a game so to speak. Anyways just ranting not being super critical... taking things to their logical absurd is a good way to demonstrate somethings strength in terms of how well it adapts to close scrutiny with the mind. heh.
-------------------- Give me Liberty caps -or- give me Death caps
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liquidlounge

Registered: 12/22/10
Posts: 9,256
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Re: It's all about being the best... [Re: Duncan Rowhl]
#23958554 - 12/26/16 03:05 PM (7 years, 1 month ago) |
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Quote:
Duncan Rowhl said:
Quote:
liquidlounge said:
Quote:
Duncan Rowhl said: You do not know what is 'best' until you know everything that is so, thus your 'best' is only......as far as you assume to know.
You do not know anything until you know everything that is so. What's your point?
Survival of the fittest:
the continued existence of organisms which are best adapted to their environment, with the extinction of others, as a concept in the Darwinian theory of evolution.
The point was understood by someone above, who agreed, but I'll elaborate for your clarity.
The definition of SOTF is known to me, but the condition of being 'best' is only applicable within the context of nature. It cannot be known to be best - ultimately, unless we know how desirable nature is in contrast to a possible alternative. 'Ultimately' is the stringent point and clincher.
If you were born in a cave and trapped there unknowingly, a trickle of water down the rock face could be your banquet.
The world vends for what's in a mans heart. If you yearn for nature, to be the 'best' within it, it will serve you up the conditions for your to exercise that desire - repeatedly. Look beyond, yearn for less of 'nature' and you'll potentially excel beyond trying to be 'best' at something which could potentially be a fools game.
No, I understood what you meant. But you had no point in the sentence I quoted. What you said here: ยจ
Quote:
Duncan Rowhl said: You do not know what is 'best' until you know everything that is so, thus your 'best' is only......as far as you assume to know.
Goes for everything in life.
-------------------- As far as I assume to know...
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The Blind Ass
Bodhi



Registered: 08/16/16
Posts: 26,658
Loc: The Primordial Mind
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Re: It's all about being the best... [Re: liquidlounge]
#23958558 - 12/26/16 03:10 PM (7 years, 1 month ago) |
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Frankly put - since we can project - we know none of any one alive is the best suited for adaptation - in the light of the concept that is - but a concept is just a concept - and life and our adaptation to it and its environmental conditions we find ourselves in is an ongoing process - so being the best is utterly subjective to the individual, it can be looked at objectively but the terms and conditions by which we judge it will shape shift in the generations to come, so once again its like asking who is the "best" guitar player - subjective... who is the best at life? The last one standing! So we are all the best for now haha
-------------------- Give me Liberty caps -or- give me Death caps
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liquidlounge

Registered: 12/22/10
Posts: 9,256
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Quote:
The Blind Ass said: ex. Basically if people had a war and ww3 unleashed all the nukes and everything else and destroyed the planet from being habitable to any living creatures - those on the International Space Station would be the last alive and so they "win", by the OP's erroneous definition/qualification of SOTF , aka, adaptation.
Oh boy. It seems to me that you struggle with reading comprehension. As you have clearly not understood my position.
I have said being the best stems from Survival of the fittest. It's from the same mentality. I never said it's the exact same thing. The desire to win is the same mental desire to survive. To beat another contestant or eat another animal for surviving - it's the same mentality, put another human or animal down to put yourself up. This is very basic.
-------------------- As far as I assume to know...
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Duncan Rowhl
Fiducia Christum



Registered: 10/08/12
Posts: 2,659
Loc: UK
Last seen: 1 year, 5 months
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Re: It's all about being the best... [Re: liquidlounge]
#23958577 - 12/26/16 03:18 PM (7 years, 1 month ago) |
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Quote:
liquidlounge said:
Quote:
Duncan Rowhl said:
Quote:
liquidlounge said:
Quote:
Duncan Rowhl said: You do not know what is 'best' until you know everything that is so, thus your 'best' is only......as far as you assume to know.
You do not know anything until you know everything that is so. What's your point?
Survival of the fittest:
the continued existence of organisms which are best adapted to their environment, with the extinction of others, as a concept in the Darwinian theory of evolution.
The point was understood by someone above, who agreed, but I'll elaborate for your clarity.
The definition of SOTF is known to me, but the condition of being 'best' is only applicable within the context of nature. It cannot be known to be best - ultimately, unless we know how desirable nature is in contrast to a possible alternative. 'Ultimately' is the stringent point and clincher.
If you were born in a cave and trapped there unknowingly, a trickle of water down the rock face could be your banquet.
The world vends for what's in a mans heart. If you yearn for nature, to be the 'best' within it, it will serve you up the conditions for your to exercise that desire - repeatedly. Look beyond, yearn for less of 'nature' and you'll potentially excel beyond trying to be 'best' at something which could potentially be a fools game.
No, I understood what you meant. But you had no point in the sentence I quoted. What you said here: ยจ
Quote:
Duncan Rowhl said: You do not know what is 'best' until you know everything that is so, thus your 'best' is only......as far as you assume to know.
Goes for everything in life.
The point was relevant and was extracted from your own signature.
You agree then that it applies to the SOTF model and thus cannot justify what is ultimately 'best'.
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The Blind Ass
Bodhi



Registered: 08/16/16
Posts: 26,658
Loc: The Primordial Mind
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Re: It's all about being the best... [Re: liquidlounge]
#23958626 - 12/26/16 03:47 PM (7 years, 1 month ago) |
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Quote:
liquidlounge said:
Quote:
The Blind Ass said: ex. Basically if people had a war and ww3 unleashed all the nukes and everything else and destroyed the planet from being habitable to any living creatures - those on the International Space Station would be the last alive and so they "win", by the OP's erroneous definition/qualification of SOTF , aka, adaptation.
Oh boy. It seems to me that you struggle with reading comprehension. As you have clearly not understood my position.
I have said being the best stems from Survival of the fittest. It's from the same mentality. I never said it's the exact same thing. The desire to win is the same mental desire to survive. To beat another contestant or eat another animal for surviving - it's the same mentality, put another human or animal down to put yourself up. This is very basic.
Did you grow up like that? If so was it traumatizing? I had a very different introduction to the very basics of life, so thats why I am asking. It is a mentality, but I imagine it as flawed in the long term (but suitable maybe for a certain period of time in our species history)and leading to more pain and suffering than necessary.
Any mentality or belief is hypothetical, able to be interchanged with a multitude of other ones. Maybe this mentality helped you survive or cope as an individual growing up in the world around you.
-------------------- Give me Liberty caps -or- give me Death caps
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liquidlounge

Registered: 12/22/10
Posts: 9,256
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Quote:
The Blind Ass said:
Quote:
liquidlounge said:
Quote:
The Blind Ass said: ex. Basically if people had a war and ww3 unleashed all the nukes and everything else and destroyed the planet from being habitable to any living creatures - those on the International Space Station would be the last alive and so they "win", by the OP's erroneous definition/qualification of SOTF , aka, adaptation.
Oh boy. It seems to me that you struggle with reading comprehension. As you have clearly not understood my position.
I have said being the best stems from Survival of the fittest. It's from the same mentality. I never said it's the exact same thing. The desire to win is the same mental desire to survive. To beat another contestant or eat another animal for surviving - it's the same mentality, put another human or animal down to put yourself up. This is very basic.
Did you grow up like that? If so was it traumatizing? I had a very different introduction to the very basics of life, so thats why I am asking.
You're The Blind Ass, not me. This and your reading comprehension makes me think you're projecting.
The rest of what you wrote is hogwosh.
-------------------- As far as I assume to know...
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liquidlounge

Registered: 12/22/10
Posts: 9,256
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Re: It's all about being the best... [Re: Duncan Rowhl]
#23958701 - 12/26/16 04:23 PM (7 years, 1 month ago) |
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Quote:
Duncan Rowhl said: The point was relevant and was extracted from your own signature.
You agree then that it applies to the SOTF model and thus cannot justify what is ultimately 'best'.
Let's try to be a bit more practical.
If there is a survival contest between two gladiators in ancient Rome the winner will be crowned as the best.
Nothing can ULTIMATELY be justified, AFAIK. But from what we assume to know, things can be justified.
-------------------- As far as I assume to know...
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The Blind Ass
Bodhi



Registered: 08/16/16
Posts: 26,658
Loc: The Primordial Mind
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Re: It's all about being the best... [Re: liquidlounge]
#23958707 - 12/26/16 04:24 PM (7 years, 1 month ago) |
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Think you may have misread me on that one brother - I definitely misread your original post , infact I didnt even read more than the first sentance, I was responding to someone else in the thread, but since you talked about it as a mentality when it is actually a biology concept I said you had err'd. Also I was asking if you grew up with that mentality. I did not , that is why I asked - because I do not know it from personal use besides reading about a little bit in some biology classes.
And what I said earlier was hog wash, I dont know that mentality, just it as a concept for individual biological adaptation to an environment - I merely speculated upon it by bringing it to its to its absurd logical extreme.
"You're the Blind Ass, not me" - is that from having the mentality of survival of the fittest?
and what was I projecting? Just wondering. Thanks for your time on this.
Edited by The Blind Ass (12/26/16 04:33 PM)
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Duncan Rowhl
Fiducia Christum



Registered: 10/08/12
Posts: 2,659
Loc: UK
Last seen: 1 year, 5 months
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Re: It's all about being the best... [Re: liquidlounge]
#23958737 - 12/26/16 04:40 PM (7 years, 1 month ago) |
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Quote:
liquidlounge said:
Quote:
Duncan Rowhl said: The point was relevant and was extracted from your own signature.
You agree then that it applies to the SOTF model and thus cannot justify what is ultimately 'best'.
Let's try to be a bit more practical.
If there is a survival contest between two gladiators in ancient Rome the winner will be crowned as the best.
Nothing can ULTIMATELY be justified, AFAIK. But from what we assume to know, things can be justified.
Quote:
liquidlounge said:
Quote:
Duncan Rowhl said: The point was relevant and was extracted from your own signature.
You agree then that it applies to the SOTF model and thus cannot justify what is ultimately 'best'.
Let's try to be a bit more practical.
If there is a survival contest between two gladiators in ancient Rome the winner will be crowned as the best.
Nothing can ULTIMATELY be justified, AFAIK. But from what we assume to know, things can be justified.
This then represents agreement of the only point that was made.
An expansive mind accommodates for the possible and doesnt bank all chips in the provable.
You are going to efforts to be the 'fittest', certainly in reply to the other person in conversation with you here, so this lends to my understanding of why you may apdot a stance which defends the SOTF model and indeed, why you may adhere to it.
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The Blind Ass
Bodhi



Registered: 08/16/16
Posts: 26,658
Loc: The Primordial Mind
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Re: It's all about being the best... [Re: Duncan Rowhl]
#23958743 - 12/26/16 04:43 PM (7 years, 1 month ago) |
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Quote:
Duncan Rowhl said:
You are going to efforts to be the 'fittest', certainly in reply to the other person in conversation with you here, so this lends to my understanding of why you may apdot a stance which defends the SOTF model and indeed, why you may adhere to it.
Ah , yes. I see it. So a perceived dominance over others? I still do not understand it as the OP says - as a mentality - is it composed of being more self centered, selfish, domineering, narcissistic, physically fit, high IQ?
Oh and OP, I got you now. Your expressing your distaste at the notion? I thought for a moment maybe you had grown up with it or been raised around that type of, as you call it, mentality.
Because the evolution concept of it has to do with adaptation in regards to an individual organism adapting to find a niche in the environment it can survive in well enough to live until it reproduces and continues its species' life cycle , as well as mutations on a cellular level.
does it apply on the internet? Everyone is basically anonymous.
-------------------- Give me Liberty caps -or- give me Death caps
Edited by The Blind Ass (12/26/16 05:27 PM)
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liquidlounge

Registered: 12/22/10
Posts: 9,256
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Re: It's all about being the best... [Re: Duncan Rowhl]
#23958813 - 12/26/16 05:10 PM (7 years, 1 month ago) |
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Quote:
Duncan Rowhl said: You are going to efforts to be the 'fittest', certainly in reply to the other person in conversation with you here, so this lends to my understanding of why you may apdot a stance which defends the SOTF model and indeed, why you may adhere to it.
And you are no different.
Jesus christ, do you also struggle with reading comprehension? I'm clearly not in favour of SOTF, go on and read the thread once more before you spew bullshit.
-------------------- As far as I assume to know...
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Duncan Rowhl
Fiducia Christum



Registered: 10/08/12
Posts: 2,659
Loc: UK
Last seen: 1 year, 5 months
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Re: It's all about being the best... [Re: liquidlounge]
#23958825 - 12/26/16 05:15 PM (7 years, 1 month ago) |
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Quote:
liquidlounge said:
Quote:
Duncan Rowhl said: You are going to efforts to be the 'fittest', certainly in reply to the other person in conversation with you here, so this lends to my understanding of why you may apdot a stance which defends the SOTF model and indeed, why you may adhere to it.
And you are no different.
Jesus christ, do you also struggle with reading comprehension? I'm clearly not in favour of SOTF, go on and read the thread once more before you spew bullshit.
With respect, there's a difference in feeling which is projected through ones choice of delivery. My contribution is based upon interest in human evolution, philosophy and behaviour which evolves with each instance of your revolt. Aiming to reach mutual agreement differs from trying to establish personal, exclusive philosophy.
Swearing and use of certain words reveal your demeanour and undertone of goal, which coincidentally, has been noted twice, to the same conclusion - subjectively.
There are efforts made for the benefit of all, as opposed to efforts clearly made for the end of oneself.
In context, this is Q.E.D. in its most literal and effective form and speaks for your position which demands no further elaboration or attempt at justification.
Edited by Duncan Rowhl (12/26/16 05:24 PM)
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liquidlounge

Registered: 12/22/10
Posts: 9,256
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Re: It's all about being the best... [Re: Duncan Rowhl]
#23958854 - 12/26/16 05:31 PM (7 years, 1 month ago) |
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You try to speak for me now, if I were like you, I would try to argue that you're trying to manipulate me. It's evident you're jumping to conclusion with nothing at hand. I didn't swear, and the certain words I used are not against the rules.
-------------------- As far as I assume to know...
Edited by liquidlounge (12/26/16 07:33 PM)
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liquidlounge

Registered: 12/22/10
Posts: 9,256
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Quote:
The Blind Ass said: Oh and OP, I got you now. Your expressing your distaste at the notion? I thought for a moment maybe you had grown up with it or been raised around that type of, as you call it, mentality.
I was raised to question that type of mentality. I have seen it all my life in society, it's everywhere and it bothers me.
-------------------- As far as I assume to know...
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Duncan Rowhl
Fiducia Christum



Registered: 10/08/12
Posts: 2,659
Loc: UK
Last seen: 1 year, 5 months
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Re: It's all about being the best... [Re: liquidlounge]
#23958899 - 12/26/16 05:48 PM (7 years, 1 month ago) |
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Quote:
liquidlounge said: You try to speak for me now, if I were like you, I would try to argue that you're trying to manipulate me. It's evident you're jumping to conclusion with nothing at hand. I didn't swear, and the certain words I used are not against the rules, so behave yourself.
You like to think you're smart Duncan, I can tell. 
I only speak for the impression you put forth and evidence begs no manipulataion.
'Bullshit' is swearing which is significant of personal angst expressed. It is vocal / written aggression.
If your game is to simply 'win', then you could in many instances, convince yourself that you've achieved that, but the true win is in the revelation that you are essentially the next and all.
Despite the claim that you hate competition associated with SOTF, you are serving in this very expression as a main contributor which lends towards it.
'Jesus Christ' in slur, in turn, propely understood, expresses knosis that everyone is indeed like each other.
Quote:
liquidlounge said: It seems like most want competition and not peace and love. I am disgusted by it.
First look to the self and it in turn, this initiates the change you wish to perceive in others,
The 'leap of faith' is acting out of true heart whilst the world that you perceive is attempting to impose upon you, its immoral ways.
When you change, as does your perception.
Edited by Duncan Rowhl (12/26/16 06:07 PM)
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liquidlounge

Registered: 12/22/10
Posts: 9,256
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Re: It's all about being the best... [Re: Duncan Rowhl]
#23958953 - 12/26/16 06:20 PM (7 years, 1 month ago) |
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Quote:
Duncan Rowhl said:
Quote:
liquidlounge said: You try to speak for me now, if I were like you, I would try to argue that you're trying to manipulate me. It's evident you're jumping to conclusion with nothing at hand. I didn't swear, and the certain words I used are not against the rules, so behave yourself.
You like to think you're smart Duncan, I can tell. 
I only speak for the impression you put forth and evidence begs no manipulataion.
'Bullshit' is swearing which is significant of personal angst expressed. It is vocal / written aggression.
If your game is to simply 'win', then you could in many instances, convince yourself that you've achieved that, but the true win is in the revelation that you are essentially the next and all.
The 'Jesus Christ' slur, in turn, may ring from a different angle.
Quote:
liquidlounge said: It seems like most want competition and not peace and love. I am disgusted by it.
First look to the self and then practice the change you wish to perceive in others.
Here you try to speak for me by claiming to know my "demeanour and undertone of goal":
Quote:
Duncan Rowhl said: Swearing and use of certain words reveal your demeanour and undertone of goal, which coincidentally, has been noted twice, to the same conclusion - subjectively.
I could be laughing my ass of and find this humorous, you don't know shit about how I feel. But it's clear to me that you like to think you do.
I didn't know bullshit was swearing, back that shit up and I will admit to be in the wrong.
Quote:
Duncan Rowhl said: First look to the self and then practice the change you wish to perceive in others.
Are you not trying to have the best position in this conversation?
-------------------- As far as I assume to know...
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