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Shop: Kraken Kratom Kratom Capsules for Sale   Unfolding Nature Unfolding Nature: Being in the Implicate Order

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Invisibleliquidlounge

Registered: 12/22/10
Posts: 9,256
It's all about being the best...
    #23952104 - 12/23/16 04:30 PM (7 years, 1 month ago)

Obviously this stems from survival of the fittest and thanks to SOTF we're here. I don't think there's much to be thankful for but thats for another topic.

It seems like most want competition and not peace and love. I am disgusted by it.


--------------------
As far as I assume to know...


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Invisiblesudly
Darwin's stagger


Registered: 01/05/15
Posts: 10,810
Re: It's all about being the best... [Re: liquidlounge]
    #23952173 - 12/23/16 04:52 PM (7 years, 1 month ago)

It's mostly consumer corporations that push those sort of messages with corporate media.

Some corporations are pretty fucking sick. :mad:


--------------------
I am whatever Darwin needs me to be.



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OfflineRJ Tubs 202
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Re: It's all about being the best... [Re: sudly]
    #23953152 - 12/24/16 12:33 AM (7 years, 1 month ago)

When we aren't competing against others, we compete against our self.

I'm referring to the whole "beating my personal best" syndrome.


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Invisibledemiu5
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Re: It's all about being the best... [Re: RJ Tubs 202] * 1
    #23953804 - 12/24/16 09:58 AM (7 years, 1 month ago)

Quote:

RJ Tubs 202 said:
When we aren't competing against others, we compete against our self.

I'm referring to the whole "beating my personal best" syndrome.






i think this is ingrained in us.  for example, the alpha male in any given primate group is regularly challenged by the non-alphas.  assuming the "betas" aren't killed, there is a learning curve, "this failed this time, how can the execution be improved upon to prevent failure"


when there is a direct relation between "working on one-self" and a resulting enhancement of one's station, be it food source, tools, or dominance, the drive continues because more can be had.  in humans, specifically, most people don't have a limit of "when is enough enough?"


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channel your inner Larry David


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OfflineDuncan Rowhl
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Re: It's all about being the best... [Re: liquidlounge] * 2
    #23954462 - 12/24/16 03:05 PM (7 years, 1 month ago)

Quote:

liquidlounge said:
Obviously this stems from survival of the fittest and thanks to SOTF we're here. I don't think there's much to be thankful for but thats for another topic.

It seems like most want competition and not peace and love. I am disgusted by it.




I think the largest misconception is that the 'fittest' is the best.

The 'fittest' is the person (or group) who can endure life on the physical plane to carry genes in the process of reproduction.

Before there is any merit whatsoever in the title 'The fittest', we first need to have an understanding of how desirable it actually is to be in this 'life' existence in constrast to a potential other existence.

The 'fittest' may well just be perpetuating an Earthly life which is actually a hell.

If this is so, the 'fittest', only REMAIN.

Nothing selfish is ultimately rewarding.  If a selfish person values themselves far beyond others, they sacrifice feeling all and drawing benefits from the all.  The selfish 'fittest' may be winning only a fight they set up for themselves, whilst all 'others' bask together in a paradise. :thumbup:


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OfflineLRG
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Re: It's all about being the best... [Re: RJ Tubs 202]
    #23954604 - 12/24/16 04:18 PM (7 years, 1 month ago)

I'm personally more disgusted with the race to kill our Mother Earth. We knowingly kill Her and all for the sake of material wealth. That's not a race we should be trying to win because then we all lose.

Quote:

RJ Tubs 202 said:
When we aren't competing against others, we compete against our self.

I'm referring to the whole "beating my personal best" syndrome.




Ought to accept that your ego can't beat yourSELF. Ego is just a tool the mind uses to subdue our Spirit. Surrender the ego and you will be glad you did. You learn what it means to "flow with the force." You won't even miss the "old you."


--------------------
"I found it is the small everyday deeds of ordinary folk that keep the darkness at bay… small acts of kindness and love.” - Gandalf The Grey.

"It is the mark of an educated mind to entertain a thought without accepting it." - Aristotle

"I like to think of Jesus like with giant eagle's wings, and singin' lead vocals for Lynyrd Skynyrd with like an angel band and I'm in the front row and I'm HAMMERED DRUNK!" - Cal Naughton Jr. AKA The Magic Man. Abracadabra homes!

"Each tear is a drop of poison released." - Anonymous

"Could it be you're afraid of what your friends might say if they knew you believe in God above? They should realize before they criticize that God is the only way to Love."


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Invisibleliquidlounge

Registered: 12/22/10
Posts: 9,256
Re: It's all about being the best... [Re: Duncan Rowhl]
    #23954681 - 12/24/16 04:55 PM (7 years, 1 month ago)

Quote:

Duncan Rowhl said:
Quote:

liquidlounge said:
Obviously this stems from survival of the fittest and thanks to SOTF we're here. I don't think there's much to be thankful for but thats for another topic.

It seems like most want competition and not peace and love. I am disgusted by it.




I think the largest misconception is that the 'fittest' is the best.



I am sure you do but that won't change the fact that the best will always adapt better to nature than the worse.


--------------------
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OfflineDuncan Rowhl
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Re: It's all about being the best... [Re: liquidlounge] * 1
    #23954712 - 12/24/16 05:11 PM (7 years, 1 month ago)

Quote:

liquidlounge said:
Quote:

Duncan Rowhl said:
Quote:

liquidlounge said:
Obviously this stems from survival of the fittest and thanks to SOTF we're here. I don't think there's much to be thankful for but thats for another topic.

It seems like most want competition and not peace and love. I am disgusted by it.




I think the largest misconception is that the 'fittest' is the best.



I am sure you do but that won't change the fact that the best will always adapt better to nature than the worse.




The 'best' at doing worse possibly, if 'nature' is less desirable than the possible alternative reality.

You do not know what is 'best' until you know everything that is so, thus your 'best' is only......as far as you assume to know.


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Offlineviktor
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Re: It's all about being the best... [Re: Duncan Rowhl]
    #23954808 - 12/24/16 06:07 PM (7 years, 1 month ago)

Why is Christianity such a life-denying, life-hating religion?

Hearing a Bible-thumper going on about how the world is Hell just gives me the creeps. No wonder they can do so much evil without conscience.


--------------------
"They consider me insane but I know that I am a hero living under the eyes of the gods."


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OfflineRJ Tubs 202
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Re: It's all about being the best... [Re: demiu5]
    #23957613 - 12/26/16 02:37 AM (7 years, 1 month ago)

Quote:

demiu5 said:
Quote:

RJ Tubs 202 said:

When we aren't competing against others, we compete against our self.

I'm referring to the whole "beating my personal best" syndrome.



i think this is ingrained in us.  for example, the alpha male in any given primate group is regularly challenged by the non-alphas.  assuming the "betas" aren't killed, there is a learning curve, "this failed this time, how can the execution be improved upon to prevent failure"


when there is a direct relation between "working on one-self" and a resulting enhancement of one's station, be it food source, tools, or dominance, the drive continues because more can be had.  in humans, specifically, most people don't have a limit of "when is enough enough?"




You make an excellent point that's well stated.

Since we no longer live in the jungle, it can help us to disengage from that reaction, right?


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Invisiblenooneman
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Registered: 04/24/09
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Loc: Utah
Re: It's all about being the best... [Re: liquidlounge] * 1
    #23957662 - 12/26/16 03:59 AM (7 years, 1 month ago)

Human civilization stopped being about that and became more about cooperation the moment we settled down and started farming. This is even more true in the modern age. Bill gates and steve jobs didn't found companies by themselves, they did it in groups with enormous amounts of help. That's how things are accomplished in the modern world: in groups with help. That's why when you run into super competitive assholes, they're always working min wage dead end jobs with no future.


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Invisiblesudly
Darwin's stagger


Registered: 01/05/15
Posts: 10,810
Re: It's all about being the best... [Re: nooneman]
    #23957665 - 12/26/16 04:02 AM (7 years, 1 month ago)

Quote:

Human civilization stopped being about that and became more about cooperation the moment we settled down and started farming.



:thumbup:


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Offlineviktor
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Re: It's all about being the best... [Re: sudly]
    #23957688 - 12/26/16 05:05 AM (7 years, 1 month ago)

Quote:

sudly said:
Quote:

Human civilization stopped being about that and became more about cooperation the moment we settled down and started farming.



:thumbup:




:thumbup: :thumbup:

Although I do think there is a huge amount of co-operation even in competition, if you look at group hunting tactics that were probably the basis for team sport.


--------------------
"They consider me insane but I know that I am a hero living under the eyes of the gods."


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Invisibleliquidlounge

Registered: 12/22/10
Posts: 9,256
Re: It's all about being the best... [Re: nooneman]
    #23957870 - 12/26/16 08:53 AM (7 years, 1 month ago)

Quote:

nooneman said:
Human civilization stopped being about that and became more about cooperation the moment we settled down and started farming. This is even more true in the modern age. Bill gates and steve jobs didn't found companies by themselves, they did it in groups with enormous amounts of help. That's how things are accomplished in the modern world: in groups with help. That's why when you run into super competitive assholes, they're always working min wage dead end jobs with no future.



Human civilization have always co-operated, and this is because we're social herd animals. But that's not the point.

Humans LOVE to compete and feel better than other people, this is how our whole society is built. Wherever I turn my face in modern society there is competition. Whether it's sports, media, fashion, education, warfare etc. It feels like people want survival of the fittest mentality. And I can't blame them because we're all here because of SOTF but it's not a necessity for surviving anymore. We can now do with love and peace.


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Invisibledemiu5
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Re: It's all about being the best... [Re: RJ Tubs 202]
    #23957983 - 12/26/16 10:05 AM (7 years, 1 month ago)

Quote:

Duncan Rowhl said:
The 'best' at doing worse possibly, if 'nature' is less desirable than the possible alternative reality.

You do not know what is 'best' until you know everything that is so, thus your 'best' is only......as far as you assume to know.





i think this has merit, unfortunately.



Quote:

LRG said:
I'm personally more disgusted with the race to kill our Mother Earth. We knowingly kill Her and all for the sake of material wealth. That's not a race we should be trying to win because then we all lose.





i see it as there existing three camps:


one camp, the religious "afterlife" camp, which discounts all actions performed during this experience of life, because this experience is nothing more than a stepping stone to the next stepping stone (heaven or hell, to simplify) which, presumably, doesn't occur on Earth.  Therefore, an "any-means-necessary" attitude to gain material and/or social comforts prevails, with utter abandon for future generations' or any other species' present/future well-being


the second camp are religious/spiritual people devoid of the "afterlife-complex" and non-spiritual people who simply don't care and still feel this planet belongs solely to the human species, and that we have "dominion" over it and all it contains  their attitude isn't "our actions and the subsequent consequences don't matter" as of the first camp, but sheer ignorance towards or denial of action -----> consequence.


the third camp consists of religious/spiritual people and non-spiritual people who are aware of the direct, immediate consequences of actions, have a general respect for this planet and its inhabitants and concern for the well-being and health of others borne out of that respect, and largely or entirely disagree with the contamination/destruction of the environment and its constituents for short- or long-term fleeting financial gains


i've tried to imagine a fourth perspective, but i'm failing at it.


Quote:

LRG said:
Quote:

RJ Tubs 202 said:
When we aren't competing against others, we compete against our self.

I'm referring to the whole "beating my personal best" syndrome.




Ought to accept that your ego can't beat yourSELF. Ego is just a tool the mind uses to subdue our Spirit. Surrender the ego and you will be glad you did. You learn what it means to "flow with the force." You won't even miss the "old you."





"beating oneself" is something of a misnomer.  self-improvement and rising beyond one's previous achievement, imo, IS self cooperating with ego in effort to transcend one's current state of self-ego.  while the end goal may be beyond self, as referenced in my previous post, the moments of working towards improvement is not beyond the self.




Quote:

viktor said:
Quote:

sudly said:
Quote:

Human civilization stopped being about that and became more about cooperation the moment we settled down and started farming.



:thumbup:




:thumbup: :thumbup:

Although I do think there is a huge amount of co-operation even in competition, if you look at group hunting tactics that were probably the basis for team sport.






i disagree, sudly.  and i think viktor has a point on this matter.  hunting/gathering, for most primates, is the pinnacle of cooperation.  agriculture is a fragmentation of that inter-species cooperation, especially when "draft" animals are brought in or farm machinery in modern day.  that isn't to say that all forms of agriculture are not or can't be performed under a paradigm of cooperation, just that the initial generations of farming was not, IMO.  People spread out, the focus fell on the individual family unit, compared to a grouping of familial units; as more was desired, and for whatever reason became a "necessity", violence erupted between neighboring communities (think on the metaphor of Cain and Able).  That same violence has become inherent in modern day, large-scale agriculture in the form of clear-cuts, habitat destruction, removal of native populations from "prime agricultural lands", pollution, and so on.  Further still, as technologies increase the production/nutrition value of food commodities, governments seize what was previously farm land (in America, much of which was initially seized by farmers/government) through violence to expand the room for housing or non-ag commercial industry.


so, no, i don't see agriculture as inherently increasing direct cooperation.  cooperative agriculture takes effort, and is most successful with an established and agreed upon doctrine.





Quote:

RJ Tubs 202 said:
Quote:

demiu5 said:
Quote:

RJ Tubs 202 said:

When we aren't competing against others, we compete against our self.

I'm referring to the whole "beating my personal best" syndrome.



i think this is ingrained in us.  for example, the alpha male in any given primate group is regularly challenged by the non-alphas.  assuming the "betas" aren't killed, there is a learning curve, "this failed this time, how can the execution be improved upon to prevent failure"


when there is a direct relation between "working on one-self" and a resulting enhancement of one's station, be it food source, tools, or dominance, the drive continues because more can be had.  in humans, specifically, most people don't have a limit of "when is enough enough?"




You make an excellent point that's well stated.

Since we no longer live in the jungle, it can help us to disengage from that reaction, right?






we no longer live in tropical jungles, but we've transferred and translated the "jungle" into our (our = broadly) own terms.  i see little to no signs of disengaging.  even monasteries or temples have fallout or internal [political/social] issues.


--------------------
channel your inner Larry David


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Invisibleliquidlounge

Registered: 12/22/10
Posts: 9,256
Re: It's all about being the best... [Re: Duncan Rowhl]
    #23958008 - 12/26/16 10:21 AM (7 years, 1 month ago)

Quote:

Duncan Rowhl said:
You do not know what is 'best' until you know everything that is so, thus your 'best' is only......as far as you assume to know.



You do not know anything until you know everything that is so. What's your point?

Survival of the fittest:

the continued existence of organisms which are best adapted to their environment, with the extinction of others, as a concept in the Darwinian theory of evolution.


--------------------
As far as I assume to know...


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OfflineDuncan Rowhl
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Re: It's all about being the best... [Re: liquidlounge] * 1
    #23958348 - 12/26/16 01:21 PM (7 years, 1 month ago)

Quote:

liquidlounge said:
Quote:

Duncan Rowhl said:
You do not know what is 'best' until you know everything that is so, thus your 'best' is only......as far as you assume to know.



You do not know anything until you know everything that is so. What's your point?

Survival of the fittest:

the continued existence of organisms which are best adapted to their environment, with the extinction of others, as a concept in the Darwinian theory of evolution.




The point was understood by someone above, who agreed, but I'll elaborate for your clarity.

The definition of SOTF is known to me, but the condition of being 'best' is only applicable within the context of nature.  It cannot be known to be best - ultimately, unless we know how desirable nature is in contrast to a possible alternative. 'Ultimately' is the stringent point and clincher.

If you were born in a cave and trapped there unknowingly, a trickle of water down the rock face could be your banquet.

The world vends for what's in a mans heart.  If you yearn for nature, to be the 'best' within it, it will serve you up the conditions for your to exercise that desire - repeatedly. Look beyond, yearn for less of 'nature' and you'll potentially excel beyond trying to be 'best' at something which could potentially be a fools game. 


Edited by Duncan Rowhl (12/26/16 01:35 PM)


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InvisibleThe Blind Ass
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Re: It's all about being the best... [Re: Duncan Rowhl]
    #23958365 - 12/26/16 01:25 PM (7 years, 1 month ago)

Survival of the fittest , ok.

But its actually survival of the one most adapted to the flux of a shape shifting like environment.

And that adaptation is not something static - it could be for all we know... some guy who is a dork hiding in a underground bunker on the PC all day that is the last man standing.

Or someone who is away from all the danger by chance and ends up surviving till the end -ie they are the last one standing.


--------------------
Give me Liberty caps -or- give me Death caps


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Invisibledemiu5
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Re: It's all about being the best... [Re: The Blind Ass]
    #23958383 - 12/26/16 01:37 PM (7 years, 1 month ago)

Quote:

The Blind Ass said:
Survival of the fittest , ok.

But its actually survival of the one most adapted to the flux of a shape shifting like environment.

And that adaptation is not something static - it could be for all we know... some guy who is a dork hiding in a underground bunker on the PC all day that is the last man standing.

Or someone who is away from all the danger by chance and ends up surviving till the end -ie they are the last one standing.







survival of the fittest is specific to a biological entity or process.  one's physical location is irrelevant, in the sense you broach, to their fitness.


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Offlinefalcon
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Re: It's all about being the best... [Re: demiu5]
    #23958443 - 12/26/16 02:08 PM (7 years, 1 month ago)

Nah, you can't have fitness without a location and a relationship between the location or locations and the fitters. And if what sounds very much like luck happens to be a factor in making something fit, it is a factor.


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