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Offlinexzylocybin
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loss of motor/muscle control during/after large dose of cyanescens
    #23951642 - 12/23/16 01:00 PM (7 years, 1 month ago)

every time I take a large dose of cyanescens I end up losing control of different muscle groups during and for awhile after the trip.

If I try gripping something I lose all feeling in my hands and arms and they become like lead weights.

When I try walking more then a few feet my legs sieze up and loss feeling and I collapse

When I try eating the next morning my jaw becomes weaker with every bite and the food falls out of my mouth

right now it is two days since my last trip and I still am finding it difficult to tie my shoes

Has anyone else ever experienced this? it is kinda freaking me out, even as I am typing my fingers are having a hard time finding the right keys.


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Invisibleopenmind
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Re: loss of motor/muscle control during/after large dose of cyanescens [Re: xzylocybin]
    #23951739 - 12/23/16 01:40 PM (7 years, 1 month ago)

Quote:

xzylocybin said:


Has anyone else ever experienced this? it is kinda freaking me out, even as I am typing my fingers are having a hard time finding the right keys.






It happens...Temporary paralysis happens occasionally with cyanescens and other "wood lover" mushrooms species....usually only when large doses are taken.


Surprised you haven't heard about this yet since it says you've been around the shroomery since 2012, this is a topic that's been talked about many times around here.


In most cases it seems to only last for several hours during the later portion of the trip or during the tail end of the trip, but I have definitely heard a handful of reports of residual paralysis/muscle control issues lasting for up to 48 hours after the mushrooms were consumed. Haven't heard many reports of it lasting much longer beyond that.



Do a search of "mushrooms paralysis", or "woodlover paralysis", or "cyanescens paralysis" and I'm sure you'll find all sorts of discussion on the topic.



Do you pick the cyans yourself?






-OM



.


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Offlinemusiclover420
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Re: loss of motor/muscle control during/after large dose of cyanescens [Re: openmind]
    #23951755 - 12/23/16 01:52 PM (7 years, 1 month ago)

:whathesaid:

I want to say I have even heard about people experiencing temporary paralysis after the trip.

There have been a lot of different theories as to what causes it.

From antihistamines to bacteria to pesticides.

I believe a read someone claim they took mycelium from a coastal patch known to cause paralysis and moved it up north to fruit some where it didn't cause the paralysis. Not positive as it has been awhile but I rather a story around those lines.


--------------------
Don't worry about me, I've got all that I need. And I'm singing my song to the sky

You know how it feels, With the breeze of the sun in your eyes. Not minding that time's passing by

I've got all and more, My smile, just as before. Is all that I carry with me

I talk to myself, I need nobody else. I'm lost and I'm mine, yes I'm free



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Offlinekrypto2000
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Re: loss of motor/muscle control during/after large dose of cyanescens [Re: musiclover420]
    #23951770 - 12/23/16 02:02 PM (7 years, 1 month ago)

Yup, totally normal. I wouldn't eat wood lovers for that reason, it seems benign, but even if it's harmless and temporary why would I want to risk being paralyzed for a portion of my trip if I could just eat a little more cubes and have the same experience?


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InvisibleThe Blind Ass
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Re: loss of motor/muscle control during/after large dose of cyanescens [Re: krypto2000]
    #23951780 - 12/23/16 02:05 PM (7 years, 1 month ago)

I wonder if its because somehow under the effects of certain doses of psilocybin combined with certain conditions and physiology the brain is tricked into believing it is dreaming and so locks up muscles to prevent one from moving so no harm is caused.  You know , like when you fall asleep and get sleep paralysis?  It reminds me so much of that.  I wonder... possibly just a correlation but I have  a nagging feeling it may be something related to that.


--------------------
Give me Liberty caps -or- give me Death caps


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Offlinekrypto2000
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Re: loss of motor/muscle control during/after large dose of cyanescens [Re: The Blind Ass]
    #23951787 - 12/23/16 02:10 PM (7 years, 1 month ago)

No, its definitely not that as it only happens with some woodlovers, it's not universal to psilocybin or psychedelics as a whole.


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OfflineEclipse3130
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Re: loss of motor/muscle control during/after large dose of cyanescens [Re: krypto2000]
    #23951822 - 12/23/16 02:24 PM (7 years, 1 month ago)

I've had it happen to me once on a low dose, but maybe it's something I don't notice, I usually meditate and don't move the entire trip anyway I enjoy the sedation if it does come.

But wood lover paralysis is common!

Psilocybe Cyanescens are my favorite, and I guess if you're using them for any reason other than going deep inside yourself they will tell you to stop :wink: by paralyzing you and showing you the real truth

:cheers:

There's something different about Cyanescens compared to cubes, and it's not just the paralysis effect, the trip itself is different and more colorful. I would suspect it's just a certain combination of alkaloids which cause it, basically how smoking DMT paralyzes you, but a different mechanism of action.


--------------------
"In The Material World One seeks retirement and grows Old
In The Magical World One seeks Enlightenment and grows Wiser
In The Miraculous World One seeks nothing and grows Lighter
As we all tread the Homeward Path we will explore many Realms
And one day... we will all Realize that all experiences are Simply
Different ways in which The
All-That Is
Perceives Itself"


Edited by Eclipse3130 (12/23/16 02:34 PM)


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Offlinekrypto2000
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Re: loss of motor/muscle control during/after large dose of cyanescens [Re: Eclipse3130]
    #23951852 - 12/23/16 02:43 PM (7 years, 1 month ago)

Does DMT paralyze you? I generally don't move, but I'm not actually paralyzed, I'm just overwhelmed to where moving is the last thing on my mind.


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Offlinemusiclover420
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Re: loss of motor/muscle control during/after large dose of cyanescens [Re: krypto2000]
    #23952049 - 12/23/16 04:06 PM (7 years, 1 month ago)

Quote:

krypto2000 said:
Yup, totally normal. I wouldn't eat wood lovers for that reason, it seems benign, but even if it's harmless and temporary why would I want to risk being paralyzed for a portion of my trip if I could just eat a little more cubes and have the same experience?




Cubes and wood lovers are fairly different in their effects, hell I have even seen a lot of preference with just woodlovers where some people get the best effects from certain varieties.


--------------------
Don't worry about me, I've got all that I need. And I'm singing my song to the sky

You know how it feels, With the breeze of the sun in your eyes. Not minding that time's passing by

I've got all and more, My smile, just as before. Is all that I carry with me

I talk to myself, I need nobody else. I'm lost and I'm mine, yes I'm free



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Offlinekrypto2000
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Re: loss of motor/muscle control during/after large dose of cyanescens [Re: musiclover420]
    #23952267 - 12/23/16 05:19 PM (7 years, 1 month ago)

What kind of different effects? What do you attribute them to? I'm skeptical that it's not just placebo, people experience a lot of things in life that aren't real.


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Offlinemusiclover420
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Re: loss of motor/muscle control during/after large dose of cyanescens [Re: krypto2000]
    #23952307 - 12/23/16 05:30 PM (7 years, 1 month ago)

Quote:

krypto2000 said:
What kind of different effects? What do you attribute them to? I'm skeptical that it's not just placebo, people experience a lot of things in life that aren't real.




Have you heard of P. baeocystis?

Quote:

Psilocin was first reported in this species in Benedict et al., 1962,[2] and a few years later, Leung and Paul would report the related compound baeocystin, isolated from saprophytic culture,[3] as well as the desmethyl metabolite norbaeocystin.[4] Beug and Bigwood (1981) also reported on the concentrations of these compounds in Psilocybe baeocystis using reverse-phase HPLC and thin-layer chromatography.[5] Concentration ranges for psychoactive compounds from these studies were reported to be 0.15–0.85% psilocybin, up to 0.59% psilocin, and up to 0.10% baeocystin.




There are at least 4 related psychedelic compounds in mushrooms and they occur in varying ratios. We may eventually discover more too :shrug:

From my understanding it is a 4 chain latter that ends in psilocin or psilocybin, I forget which. So one of these compounds your body doesn't have to process at all, where as the other 3 are processed from one to the other until they end up as psilocin or whatever. I have heard this is why mushrooms such as Liberty Caps which mainly contain psilocin have one of the "cleanest" highs.

Your body has much less work to do with liberty caps compared to woodlovers which are known to contain higher amounts of the precursor alkaloids.

So we already know there is at least some variation in the alkaloids of different mushrooms, like I said we may discover other things too eventually.

Until people experiment with pure extracts of each chemical we won't know for sure though and even then they probably interact.

So in short, no I don't think it is placebo. Enough people have experienced the differences and many prefer woodlovers over cubes for various reasons.


--------------------
Don't worry about me, I've got all that I need. And I'm singing my song to the sky

You know how it feels, With the breeze of the sun in your eyes. Not minding that time's passing by

I've got all and more, My smile, just as before. Is all that I carry with me

I talk to myself, I need nobody else. I'm lost and I'm mine, yes I'm free



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Offlinekrypto2000
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Re: loss of motor/muscle control during/after large dose of cyanescens [Re: musiclover420]
    #23952468 - 12/23/16 06:19 PM (7 years, 1 month ago)

I don't know if beocystin produces a different experience, but it is supposed to be weaker than psilocin/psilocybin and per your numbers it would make up, at most, 10% of the alkaloids, usually much less than that. Your reference is for p. baeocystis btw and not the wood lovers in question, but azures have been reported as high as 0.3%, however they also have much higher amounts of psilocin and psilocybin compared to p. baeocystis as well so it's still going to be 10% on a very good day. Any other alkaloids present are going to be in quantities below that still so unless you believe there is something highly potent yet discovered and analyzed it doesn't seem likely to be contributing anything.

I do believe wood lovers are supposed to have a higher psilocin:psilocybin content than cubes so it probably is a somewhat faster onset and having to eat less mushroom matter would result in less gastrointestinal distress and body load. To me that seems much more likely to be the cause if there are any actual differences outside of placebo, which wouldn't be due to the chemicals but the route of ingestion. If you make tea you would achieve the same effect by making the alkaloids more bioavailable and converting the psilocybin to psilocin. Also just look out how common it is for people to believe B+ gives them a different trip than golden teachers or something, or even people saying their mushrooms were laced with PCP :rofl:; the placebo effect is definitely strong in the psychedelic community.


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Offlinemusiclover420
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Re: loss of motor/muscle control during/after large dose of cyanescens [Re: krypto2000]
    #23952517 - 12/23/16 06:36 PM (7 years, 1 month ago)

Well one thing to consider is they might interact so even if it makes up 10% or even 1% of the alkaloids it could still effect the experience.

Placebos are strong outside of psychedelics which enhance the mind and can make it even worse.

Still though I believe enough people have noticed the difference that there is at least something to it.

You could be right about people just eating more then they are used to becouse of the potency but I still think there is more to it then that.

For example I have heard Pan Cyans have a very "warm/ tropical feel" and give very bright colorful visuals, where as woodlovers can feel more "dark". It could entirely be an environmental thing but I also believe psychedelics can pick up on the energy of their surroundings so it makes sense to me that tropical mushrooms would have a different feel possibly.

Clearly the only way to really know would be some tests where people were given various mushrooms with a placebo control group and the effects were compared.


--------------------
Don't worry about me, I've got all that I need. And I'm singing my song to the sky

You know how it feels, With the breeze of the sun in your eyes. Not minding that time's passing by

I've got all and more, My smile, just as before. Is all that I carry with me

I talk to myself, I need nobody else. I'm lost and I'm mine, yes I'm free



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Offlinekrypto2000
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Re: loss of motor/muscle control during/after large dose of cyanescens [Re: musiclover420]
    #23952571 - 12/23/16 06:53 PM (7 years, 1 month ago)

Yeah, you could be right, I guess we both agree the other could and that we just don't know :shrug:. Without any more studies we can only speculate with the limited info we have. I also do not know how much cyans have been studied, nor have I done much research on them, so perhaps they do have other components. Perhaps even this paralyzing component has psychological effects itself for that matter.

With that said too though I have exclusively eaten cubes, as far as mushrooms go, and I've had warm happy trips, dark trips, spiritual trips, and confusing trips, just the whole gamut you know? There's just so much variance in the psychedelic experience itself, I mean literally walking from one room to another or changing the tv/music can dramatically alter a trip. Even taking much less related compounds, say LSD, it is quite distinct from psilocin in effects, but outside of the duration I would say there are probably more differences contributed from the set/setting than the drug. That's something rather impossible to quantify, but when you take an opiate you get opiated every time, alcohol you get drunk, the same drunk every time, but when you eat a psychedelic the most accurate we can say is that it takes you on a trip, we never really know where.


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OfflineHeyowana
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Re: loss of motor/muscle control during/after large dose of cyanescens [Re: krypto2000]
    #23953377 - 12/24/16 05:18 AM (7 years, 1 month ago)

I totally agree with the first post. Very common with P.subaeruginosa in Australia. Depending on dosage I get those paralysis symptoms the next day.

However P.semilanceata contains psilocybin with only traces of psilocin.

Copelandia cyanscens AKA Panaeolus cyanescens AKA blue meanies are high in psilocin. They hit hard and fast. Paranoid reactions are common with high dosages in Australia.

About habitat and climate influencing woodlovers paralysis I'm uncertain. Coastal P.subaeruginosa are more potent than mountain ones. Yet both types give woodlovers paralysis in large dosages. So the paralysis effects seem independant to the amount of psilocybin these mushrooms contain.


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Re: loss of motor/muscle control during/after large dose of cyanescens [Re: Heyowana]
    #23953455 - 12/24/16 07:03 AM (7 years, 1 month ago)

Semilanceata will usually make me quite jello feeling and pretty much unable to walk for a good couple hours of my trip. Cubes have a far lighter feel for me and can do a lot of walking or activities on them.


--------------------
"We are a way for the cosmos to know itself."



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Offlinexzylocybin
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Re: loss of motor/muscle control during/after large dose of cyanescens [Re: SonicTitan]
    #23955267 - 12/24/16 10:19 PM (7 years, 1 month ago)

thanks everyone, glad to know it is common, I had looked it up before and it doesn't seem like the actual physiological cause is known yet, unless I skipped over reading someone's post? I am very curious to know why this happens and how to counteract it, as it can be very disconcerting especially to first time users. I am thinking maybe tea or some kind of extraction may help.

I am seeing some people saying paralysis only happens with wood lovers, and others saying it happens with all psilocybin, or with all psyches.

I myself have only experienced it with wood lovers, it would make a very interesting experiment if anyone is up to it.


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OfflinePrimalSoup
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Re: loss of motor/muscle control during/after large dose of cyanescens [Re: xzylocybin]
    #23955358 - 12/24/16 10:57 PM (7 years, 1 month ago)

:lol: The people that say it happens with all psilocybins haven't experienced the particular terror of the woodlover attack, I suspect. :shrug:


--------------------

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OfflineBlabble40
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Re: loss of motor/muscle control during/after large dose of cyanescens [Re: krypto2000]
    #23955460 - 12/24/16 11:44 PM (7 years, 1 month ago)

Quote:

krypto2000 said:
No, its definitely not that as it only happens with some woodlovers, it's not universal to psilocybin or psychedelics as a whole.



I think this may be accurate enough which is why woodlover's paralysis might not be an actual thing. Mold is known to accumulate on the mushroom fruit bodies however, and if you consume that maybe some sickly reaction can happen?
With salvia, DMT, and even weed, you can get stoned enough, and basically "paralyzed". It's purely physiological. The part that worries me about your post though is the after effects, like next day having trouble eating or putting shoes on. Maybe you are extra sensitive, had a bad trip/product, or there actually is some kind of rot in the wood.


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Offlineeyesdown
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Re: loss of motor/muscle control during/after large dose of cyanescens [Re: xzylocybin]
    #24072911 - 02/07/17 04:23 PM (6 years, 11 months ago)

hi, I get the woodlover paralysis and know what you are talking about. I found lots of ps.cyans this season in the uk and if I dose more than once in a few days I get the paralysis quite bad, sometimes after the trip and a few hours sleep so 10-11 hours after dose.

during the come up and first few hours I piss like a racehorse every 20-30 min... So now after searching and trying to figure it out I think the woodlovers either contain something that builds up, after repeat doses, and then some how effects contraction of muscles( thumbs and fingers for me mostly, cant do laces, buttons, roll cigs, turn key in a lock)  No evidence, just assumption^

Or the massive amounts of urine I pass is stripping my body of electrolites or other essential vits or minerals .... I usually drink plain water while tripping, mabe people who eat woodlovers and never experience the paralysis are people who drink iso tonic sports drinks/ energy drinks... Also no evidence just personal experience and more assumption...Never had this from high doses of h.grown GTs, just ps cyans

Anyway sorry  for adding to an oldish post, just wanted to say my thoughts on it.


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Offlinekrypto2000
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Re: loss of motor/muscle control during/after large dose of cyanescens [Re: eyesdown]
    #24072969 - 02/07/17 04:41 PM (6 years, 11 months ago)

I really doubt it's the electrolytes, no matter how much water you drink in a day you're not going to flush everything out, especially to that extent to cause paralysis. Plus you would think people would experience it with other psychedelics, it has to be a compound or a group of compounds present within the mushroom.


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