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Stipe-n Cap


Registered: 08/04/12
Posts: 7,623
Loc: Canada
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Re: TRUE CONFESSIONS - of an amateur mycologist [Re: Failboat]
#27294892 - 05/05/21 12:42 AM (2 years, 8 months ago) |
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To think that I lived to see the day that that saying under hydrated grains was a breeding ground for bacteria was inflammatory, lol.
Don't add non sterile nutritive shit to your sterile shit, maybe people will understand that explanation, lol.
Also I'm drunk so if I'm crass well, don't be a moron.
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Mateja



Registered: 07/14/16
Posts: 7,948
Loc: Here
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Re: TRUE CONFESSIONS - of an amateur mycologist [Re: Josex]
#27294895 - 05/05/21 12:43 AM (2 years, 8 months ago) |
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Quote:
Josex said: You say you've been reading a lot outside shroomery and you're getting your facts about all this from people who don't grow mushrooms. I'm telling you I don't read but the amount of experience over the years and all my late experimenting and testing make it so that I would be most surprised to learn that endospores can't be inside the grains, it just would not make sense then.
I'll be happy to post the link so you can check it out for yourself just gimme a hours or so to dig that up again. And for your information I didn't actually read that it's impossible for bacterial spores to be incapsulated but when I was reading this sites that are about grain preservation they all talk about bacterial spores being wedged inside the small crevices on the outside of the grain.
Quote:
Again like said before, testing needs to be done (which I have done) and documenting too (which I haven't), otherwise we're just chatting with nothing tangible on the table.
Of course all theories need to be put to the test that goes without saying and that's why I made groundbreaking discoveries after only a few weeks of reading microbiology forums. My discovery has been put to the test and I'm currently still doing experimentation with this but yeah I found out that a LC broth will in every case turn completely turbid even if you start off with the most insignificant size of bacterial colony, it will still spread so quickly that you'd be able to see the density of the bacterial colony with the naked eye and very easily at that.
It doesn't seem so long ago when lot's experienced growers were talking about their LC being "slightly bacterial" and this of course comes from not having a clue about how bacteria spreads. In a broth bacteria doesn't divide a few times then suddenly stops, it will either not grow at all or it will run through the entire broth in a matter of 2-3 days, on average bacteria divides every 15 minutes. All my experiments so far confirm this precisely
-------------------- Cakes inside Water Tub
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Stipe-n Cap


Registered: 08/04/12
Posts: 7,623
Loc: Canada
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Re: TRUE CONFESSIONS - of an amateur mycologist [Re: Mateja] 1
#27294897 - 05/05/21 12:46 AM (2 years, 8 months ago) |
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I have literally soaked oats, sterilized them and then grew bacterial spawn, why...becauseit isn't completely sterile. If yall doubt me, then do it yourself, its a fools errand. Just hydrate your grain properly and stop being lazy, this is not controversial.
Like I said before, many people can't even hydrate oats properly and still get great results. Try soaking them in fermented water, lol. Oats are awesome.
Ok, sorry shroomery. Too much whiskey, time for bed. But, despite my drunkenness its still obvious that soaking large cereal grains takes a back seat to properly hydrating those grains, unless of course you're a noob.
People should fill in our TCS on this secret. Hey Nate! Why are you boiling your grains dude, they don't need to increaseim size two fold, Didn't you know that you can soak them in a bucket?
Hey bod, your tek is useless because a noob said buckets work better. Hey josex, why bother, bucket. Pretty much delete every grain prep tek and just write bucket, water. The end.
You don't get sterile media from a non sterile source material. Prove me wrong, pics or it didn't happen.
Edited by Stipe-n Cap (05/05/21 01:06 AM)
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Josex
#cheat_code


Registered: 11/13/15
Posts: 8,995
Loc:
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Re: TRUE CONFESSIONS - of an amateur mycologist [Re: Stipe-n Cap] 1
#27294908 - 05/05/21 01:07 AM (2 years, 8 months ago) |
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Quote:
Mateah said:
It doesn't seem so long ago when lot's experienced growers were talking about their LC being "slightly bacterial" and this of course comes from not having a clue about how bacteria spreads. In a broth bacteria doesn't divide a few times then suddenly stops, it will either not grow at all or it will run through the entire broth in a matter of 2-3 days, on average bacteria divides every 15 minutes. All my experiments so far confirm this precisely 
Yeah I know what you mean. I also have a feeling that stems from having done hundreds of LC's that there's no such a thing as a slightly bacterial LC, it's either clean as a whistle or a dirty bacterial soup. That's one of the reasons why I love LC so much, it's an all or nothing art form in a sense. You know you either have perfectly axenic inoculant or some unusable crap.
Not completely discarding the notion that there may be such a thing as a slighly bacterial LC from bacteria that was introduced at inoculation, though. It's just something that I haven't experienced myself and it would not make a lot of sense in my head either.
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Mateja



Registered: 07/14/16
Posts: 7,948
Loc: Here
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Re: TRUE CONFESSIONS - of an amateur mycologist [Re: Josex]
#27294912 - 05/05/21 01:26 AM (2 years, 8 months ago) |
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I'm glad i joined this discussion cause now I came up with an idea for the coming experiment to either confirm or deny my theories on how bacteria spreads on grain. And for this experiment I will inoculate sterilized grain with two agar wedges. One will contain a clean cube culture and the other agar wedge will have a visible bacteria colony on it. My predictions are that (if the bacterial colony even makes it off the agar) that it will not affect the cube colonies from reaching full colonization without issues.
And I guess I will also inoculate another jar of rye with only a bacterial colony and I will shake that jar multiple times and later I will drop a cube culture on that rye to see how colonization is going.
-------------------- Cakes inside Water Tub
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Sockadin



Registered: 01/03/10
Posts: 7,244
Last seen: 2 months, 21 days
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Re: TRUE CONFESSIONS - of an amateur mycologist [Re: Stipe-n Cap]
#27295040 - 05/05/21 05:03 AM (2 years, 8 months ago) |
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If you have time. Fermenting Grains can be a fun and useful project and it will not lead to bacterial grains if your PC cycle is correct. I agree, overly wet or overly dry grains do not have anything to do with bacteria if your jars have run a proper sterile cycle.
 7 day fermented grains and then boiled and steam dried. Post proper PC cycle. I might start doing this again because the grains worked well. Plump, not sticky and the mushrooms loved them.
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Josex
#cheat_code


Registered: 11/13/15
Posts: 8,995
Loc:
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Re: TRUE CONFESSIONS - of an amateur mycologist [Re: Sockadin]
#27295052 - 05/05/21 05:20 AM (2 years, 8 months ago) |
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Quote:
Sockadin said: If you have time. Fermenting Grains can be a fun and useful project and it will not lead to bacterial grains if your PC cycle is correct. I agree, overly wet or overly dry grains do not have anything to do with bacteria if your jars have run a proper sterile cycle.
 7 day fermented grains and then boiled and steam dried. Post proper PC cycle. I might start doing this again because the grains worked well. Plump, not sticky and the mushrooms loved them.
Cool, if you're so sure a "proper cycle" trumps a good prep, I officially dare you make a thread where you do a soak/load wet kinda prep with oats (no boiling) and then do a growlog with a known culture of yours that produces well.
Better yet, soak that shit for so long that it start fermenting badly. I want to see a canopy from said experiment.
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Stipe-n Cap


Registered: 08/04/12
Posts: 7,623
Loc: Canada
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Re: TRUE CONFESSIONS - of an amateur mycologist [Re: Josex]
#27295065 - 05/05/21 05:37 AM (2 years, 8 months ago) |
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The caveat here being the part about boiling. Boiling is the proper method of hydration. The claim was that oats can be hydrated with fermentation alone, no boil, no simmering.
I didn't even say that it couldn't work, I said that it was an inferior method that will promote bacteria. (But sill probably wouldn't work, lol)
Jeez, its like I kicked Jesus's mom in the clitorus by stating what should be obvious here.
Edit:
For reference this was the grain prep method that was used to support the claim that this soak method was viable:
This farm uses fermented oats with yeast added to the fermented water:
This video is instructions on how to sop up excess water from the fermentation that's left on the exterior of the grain and will be present in the spawn bags he suggests using soy hull, and then PC the 5lb supplemented spawn bag for only 2.5 hours, lol.
I don't think that I'm being unreasonable by saying that this method may work for aggressive commercial Pleurotus cultures but would be a disaster for cubes.
Edited by Stipe-n Cap (05/05/21 06:17 AM)
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Drboomer
The lord magnificent


Registered: 09/22/19
Posts: 957
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Quote:
verum subsequentis said: I'm testing this now because a friend sent me a video from an edible farm talking about soaking oats.
That's not where I got the idea from but he is an example I used. I put zero stock into his fermenting grains theory and only do it to allow the water to start to soften the grain. When it comes out the soak it will be slightly softened and the husk will be hydrated. I then load it wet and PC. Knowing how wet to leave it is kind of the key. I'm not sure how to explain it as it's a feel thing. I guess the best way to describe it is as wet as grain that has steamed off for a minute or two after the simmer. It will likely come out slightly wet but be soak up the water in a few hours and be nice and loose dry looking well hydrated grain.
I also have to say since it keeps being brought up heat is definitely not needed to hydrate oats. Water will penetrate on its own, otherwise the seed would not hydrate enough to germinate.....
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A.k.a
Stranger



Registered: 10/27/19
Posts: 16,782
Loc: Gaming the system
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Re: TRUE CONFESSIONS - of an amateur mycologist [Re: Drboomer]
#27295145 - 05/05/21 07:14 AM (2 years, 8 months ago) |
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I confess I completely lost focus here when I realized that if somebody changes their name, it still shows the original name when their posts are quoted 
I’ve said it a bunch before but I think reading spawn is the hardest part of cult.
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LAGM2020     
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Josex
#cheat_code


Registered: 11/13/15
Posts: 8,995
Loc:
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Re: TRUE CONFESSIONS - of an amateur mycologist [Re: A.k.a]
#27295149 - 05/05/21 07:19 AM (2 years, 8 months ago) |
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Quote:
A.k.a said: I confess I completely lost focus here when I realized that if somebody changes their name, it still shows the original name when their posts are quoted 
I’ve said it a bunch before but I think reading spawn is the hardest part of cult.
No lol that was me changing the name to "Mateah" when I quoted "Some Dude". He knows I didn't like that name change
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Sockadin



Registered: 01/03/10
Posts: 7,244
Last seen: 2 months, 21 days
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Re: TRUE CONFESSIONS - of an amateur mycologist [Re: Josex]
#27295242 - 05/05/21 08:42 AM (2 years, 8 months ago) |
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OK "I officially dare you make a thread where you do a soak/load wet kinda prep with oats (no boiling) and then do a growlog with a known culture of yours that produces well." Josex. Gauntlet thrown down! Lol
I really don't think that we are disagreeing guys. I think improperly prepared grains will lead to all kinds of issues excess water in jars can make clumps and inhibit even growth through out the jar.
I think that fermenting grains and then properly preparing them (Boiling and steam drying) doesn't make the grains absorbe more water but it helps the germ layer on the outside of the oats break down during the fermentation process. It makes the grain colonize faster and cleaner. I don't think oats should be prepared without boiling. I also think soaking and loading sucks. I came into the conversation late it appears.
To be clear the amount of time it takes to ferment your grains is wasted if it promotes a faster colonization, but takes 7 more days before prep. It was just an experiment I did. Also I thought the claim was Fermenting grains leads to bacteria issues so I miss understood.
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Inthepit
Aum Mani Padme Hum


Registered: 08/20/19
Posts: 1,742
Loc: Puerto Rico
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Re: TRUE CONFESSIONS - of an amateur mycologist [Re: Sockadin]
#27295293 - 05/05/21 09:18 AM (2 years, 8 months ago) |
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I use Crackatoa's easy oats Works great! That is, bring water to a boil, turn off heat, add oats for 45 minutes. I see fewer damaged oats by just sitting in the hot water rather than boiling.
After 40 minutes I start cutting some oats open to see if they are fully hydrated. That's where the rubber meets the road.
Then they go to the screen to dry off. A very quick process.
 And no! that's not bottles of piss!
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A.k.a
Stranger



Registered: 10/27/19
Posts: 16,782
Loc: Gaming the system
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Re: TRUE CONFESSIONS - of an amateur mycologist [Re: Josex]
#27295312 - 05/05/21 09:42 AM (2 years, 8 months ago) |
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Wouldn’t fermenting them create alcohol and kill most stuff??
Quote:
Josex said:
Quote:
A.k.a said: I confess I completely lost focus here when I realized that if somebody changes their name, it still shows the original name when their posts are quoted 
I’ve said it a bunch before but I think reading spawn is the hardest part of cult.
No lol that was me changing the name to "Mateah" when I quoted "Some Dude". He knows I didn't like that name change 
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LAGM2020     
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Crackatoa
Stranger in a strange land



Registered: 03/31/19
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Re: TRUE CONFESSIONS - of an amateur mycologist [Re: Inthepit]
#27295336 - 05/05/21 10:09 AM (2 years, 8 months ago) |
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Sockadin



Registered: 01/03/10
Posts: 7,244
Last seen: 2 months, 21 days
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Re: TRUE CONFESSIONS - of an amateur mycologist [Re: Crackatoa]
#27295587 - 05/05/21 02:10 PM (2 years, 8 months ago) |
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To be fair I did use Potassium Metabisulfite to inhibit wild yeast and bacteria. I imagine if they had enough sugar you would be able to create grain alcohol but I don't think basic oats do. I am not a chemist so I could be (and am usually wrong).
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Mateja



Registered: 07/14/16
Posts: 7,948
Loc: Here
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Re: TRUE CONFESSIONS - of an amateur mycologist [Re: Josex]
#27296434 - 05/06/21 12:58 AM (2 years, 8 months ago) |
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-------------------- Cakes inside Water Tub
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tiptrippy
The Mechanic



Registered: 09/09/20
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Re: TRUE CONFESSIONS - of an amateur mycologist *DELETED* [Re: Mateja] 1
#27300862 - 05/08/21 09:57 PM (2 years, 8 months ago) |
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I confess I dream of the day when I have my own sterile work space and don't have to setup and tear down the SAB every time I have to do some work
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Wall.E
Bacteria's Bitch



Registered: 06/05/20
Posts: 2,860
Loc: Fungal Void
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Re: TRUE CONFESSIONS - of an amateur mycologist *DELETED* [Re: tiptrippy]
#27300876 - 05/08/21 10:11 PM (2 years, 8 months ago) |
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Dude you and me both. I know it's only 20 feet but trying to move a 110 qt sab through 2 doorways is enough of a burden to deter my cult some days
-------------------- Life’s shit, but I’m loving it
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Failboat
Fuck Up
Registered: 02/01/18
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Re: TRUE CONFESSIONS - of an amateur mycologist *DELETED* [Re: Wall.E]
#27300899 - 05/08/21 10:43 PM (2 years, 8 months ago) |
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It's nice having permanent flow
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