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OfflineMarkosheehan
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5ht2b agonism *DELETED*
    #23948670 - 12/22/16 10:14 AM (7 years, 1 month ago)

Post deleted by Markosheehan

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Offlinekrypto2000
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Re: 5ht2b agonism [Re: Markosheehan]
    #23948858 - 12/22/16 11:29 AM (7 years, 1 month ago)

I've heard this, but not seen any proof of it in humans. You have to consider the studies may just have not been done though so I sure wouldn't conclude they don't, they are illegal after all so much research has not been done.


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Invisiblenooneman
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Registered: 04/24/09
Posts: 14,568
Loc: Utah
Re: 5ht2b agonism [Re: Markosheehan]
    #23948924 - 12/22/16 11:48 AM (7 years, 1 month ago)

Only certain 5HT2B agonists affect the heart, and only some psychedelics are agonists of 5HT2B. Some don't bind very well at the site, the notable exception being mushrooms which have a relatively high affinity for 5HT2B. Given that mushrooms are the most commonly used psychedelic, and given that there is zero history of heart problems in users of mushrooms, I would suspect that most psychedelics probably do not affect the heart significantly especially given the low frequency of use relative to other drugs.


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Offlinekrypto2000
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Re: 5ht2b agonism [Re: nooneman] * 1
    #23948970 - 12/22/16 12:04 PM (7 years, 1 month ago)

Quote:

nooneman said:
Only certain 5HT2B agonists affect the heart, and only some psychedelics are agonists of 5HT2B. Some don't bind very well at the site, the notable exception being mushrooms which have a relatively high affinity for 5HT2B. Given that mushrooms are the most commonly used psychedelic, and given that there is zero history of heart problems in users of mushrooms, I would suspect that most psychedelics probably do not affect the heart significantly especially given the low frequency of use relative to other drugs.




Is that a given though? How do you feel it is? I would not be so quick to draw such a conclusion. Some mushroom users certainly have heart problems. When the heart problems arose it's not like they or their dr thought, "Oh, it must be from those 20 times I ate mushrooms over the last two years." Since the damage is mild, cumulative, and not immediately apparent finding such a correlation is likely to go unnoticed. It's not as if most people tell their dr they take mushrooms either, if they don't think it's relevant they're not likely to volunteer that info, and even when asked some people will not admit it.


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OfflineSabnock
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Re: 5ht2b agonism [Re: krypto2000]
    #23949124 - 12/22/16 01:06 PM (7 years, 1 month ago)

DMT supposedly also activates the 2B receptor, and i took it orally near daily for a year back in 2012, my heart is fine.

I see this question posted a lot, and i also would like to know, but i don't think it's that big of a deal/risk, especially for something you take once or maybe twice a week like Shrooms, i'd be more worried about something like DMT than Shrooms since DMT can be taken anytime and doesn't build tolerance.


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Offlinekrypto2000
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Re: 5ht2b agonism [Re: Sabnock]
    #23949394 - 12/22/16 02:59 PM (7 years, 1 month ago)

I wouldn't be worried about DMT because while you take it every day, or can, it's so rapidly metabolized that's it's not going to be around long to do much. Also keep in mind that individuals will vary. With fluxamine or w/e it was called that first caused the 5ht2b valve issues it's not as if everyone experienced problems, but enough did that it was taken off the market and banned around the world.


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Invisibleopenmind
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Re: 5ht2b agonism [Re: Sabnock] * 1
    #23949493 - 12/22/16 03:39 PM (7 years, 1 month ago)

Quote:

Sabnock said:

I see this question posted a lot...






The OP has posted a bunch of different threads over the past few months, and they're all basically about the same thing, dude is worried that psychedelics are going to do something bad to his heart.


heart distress

Shrooms and heart damage

Safest psychedelic

Weed and heart

receptor information

other psychedelics

supplements while tripping

heart







Markosheehan...how do you actually enjoy your trips if you have such a huge fear of heart related issues? That's all you ever post about.







-OM


.


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OfflineSabnock
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Re: 5ht2b agonism [Re: Markosheehan]
    #23949812 - 12/22/16 06:18 PM (7 years, 1 month ago)

Markosheehan - Don't worry about this issue, just enjoy your Psychedelic experiences, and if you're really worried, get a check up with a doc every now and then to make sure you're doing fine. I do think if 2B activation by Psychedelics caused valvular heart disease, we'd know about it by now. That's not to say that all Psychedelics are safe, because some compounds might have that effect, but mushrooms, cacti, aya, and other natural psychoactives have been used for a long time and we really haven't seen much in the way of physical damage/harm from them.


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Offlinekrypto2000
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Registered: 12/05/06
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Re: 5ht2b agonism [Re: Sabnock]
    #23949913 - 12/22/16 07:12 PM (7 years, 1 month ago)

How can you guys so readily conclude that? It seems like cognitive bias to me.


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Invisiblenooneman
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Registered: 04/24/09
Posts: 14,568
Loc: Utah
Re: 5ht2b agonism [Re: krypto2000]
    #23950241 - 12/22/16 09:28 PM (7 years, 1 month ago)

Quote:

krypto2000 said:
Quote:

nooneman said:
Only certain 5HT2B agonists affect the heart, and only some psychedelics are agonists of 5HT2B. Some don't bind very well at the site, the notable exception being mushrooms which have a relatively high affinity for 5HT2B. Given that mushrooms are the most commonly used psychedelic, and given that there is zero history of heart problems in users of mushrooms, I would suspect that most psychedelics probably do not affect the heart significantly especially given the low frequency of use relative to other drugs.




Is that a given though? How do you feel it is? I would not be so quick to draw such a conclusion. Some mushroom users certainly have heart problems. When the heart problems arose it's not like they or their dr thought, "Oh, it must be from those 20 times I ate mushrooms over the last two years." Since the damage is mild, cumulative, and not immediately apparent finding such a correlation is likely to go unnoticed. It's not as if most people tell their dr they take mushrooms either, if they don't think it's relevant they're not likely to volunteer that info, and even when asked some people will not admit it.



There is zero evidence that mushrooms cause heart problems though. So in the absence of evidence, it isn't logical to assume that it does cause problems.


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OfflineSabnock
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Re: 5ht2b agonism [Re: krypto2000]
    #23950353 - 12/22/16 10:07 PM (7 years, 1 month ago)

Quote:

krypto2000 said:
How can you guys so readily conclude that? It seems like cognitive bias to me.




Not at all, i'm simply saying if there were heart issues related to chronic/long term 2B receptor activation through the use of naturally occurring Psychedelic compounds/substances, we'd more than likely know about it by now. I'm all for them doing future research/studies to determine for sure though, as a part of me also is a little bit concerned but like i said so far we just really don't know but can most likely conclude that if there is a risk, it's probably rare. And as far as i know, not all 2B agonists cause valvular heart disease, and the ones that do usually happen from chronic/frequent/regular and long term dosing, from my understanding.

So yeah, i've seen this question raised a few times from a few different members on a few different forums, and no one really ever seems to have much of an answer except if it did, we'd most likely know about it by now, and until more research is done, i'm afraid we won't know for sure. So the best thing to do, is not to worry about it, live life, have your experiences, keep a check on your health, make sure you're supplementing with things that help protect the heart and eat a somewhat healthy diet and your heart should be fine. The only people who need to worry about their heart when it comes to Psychedelics, are those with pre-existing heart conditions. Just don't worry about it, enjoy the journey, learn, grow, love, live, be :smile:


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OfflineMarkosheehan
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Re: 5ht2b agonism [Re: Sabnock]
    #23950969 - 12/23/16 07:26 AM (7 years, 1 month ago)

ok i know but i keep wondering about it cause i usally dont get conclusive answers and when i research this stuff on the web i get no info at all so my only source of info is to go on forums and ask people and can anyone adress my OP about how melatonin is a 5ht2b agonist however it isnt bad for your heart and also is there not any supplements people know of i could take they dont even have have to be 5ht2b antagonits. does any1 know of any natural supplements i could take to prevent valve fibrosis. i heard red wine might prevent it. also ive heard ginger is a 5ht2b agonist.


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