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bloodsheen
ChemChaplin



Registered: 09/24/08
Posts: 7,659
Last seen: 4 years, 14 days
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Blame
#23942497 - 12/20/16 06:35 AM (7 years, 1 month ago) |
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I grew up with a mother who really hated being blamed for things. Even when it was objectively her fault she wanted to shift blame away. As I got older I realized how childish that really was. How many times in your life have your mistakes been equated with horrible consequences? And I'm not talking mistakes like "I shouldn't have stabbed that dude to death in that bar." I mean regular mistakes, like breaking stuff and miscalculating how much money you had to spend and accidentally getting into the wrong lane. Its rarely a big deal and is mostly easily straightened out.
I've started realizing that in relationships, blame is probably just about the most toxic thing possible. I've recently had a falling out with a friend, and at first I was super angry at him and started making mental accusations about his quality as a man. Then after I calmed down and we had some time apart, I realized we were just simply no longer at a point in our lives where we could continue on as friends. Circumstances and life-choices had narrowed the possibility of continuing until it finally didn't exist anymore.
When somebody actually betrays you, like cheats on you or is caught spreading rumors about you, its so easy to end the relationship. But when its just that simple, your lives just don't intersect anymore, its tought to know what to do.
Anyone here manage to keep a relationship of any sort together even through impossible odds? Was it worth the effort in your mind? In the past it hasn't been worth it at all, which is kinda why I'm making this post. Maybe I'm just an asshole and I can't keep my shit together
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A cautious young fellow named Lodge / Had seat belts installed in his Dodge. / When his date was strapped in / He committed a sin / Without even leaving the garage. That's clever, isn't it?-A boy and his dog
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Lucis
Nutritional Yeast

Registered: 03/28/15
Posts: 15,622
Last seen: 1 month, 29 days
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Quote:
bloodsheen said:
When somebody actually betrays you, like cheats on you or is caught spreading rumors about you, its so easy to end the relationship. But when its just that simple, your lives just don't intersect anymore, its tought to know what to do.
I think if two people have had a relationship which has worked for a while, then begins to fail almost overnight, then there's probably some outside opinion influencing one, or both, of the people in the relationship. I should add lack of communication can end a relationship very quickly, if you're in a relationship with a friend, or a significant other, and you guys never talk about your problems, that's a major warning sign. It's natural to have things you don't like about people you're close to, but letting those things fester and become something worse, will be the end of those relationships. Talking about your problems in a calm, respectful manner, will keep things mellow, and you will often avoid any type of raised voice arguing.
If you're approaching your friend/partner about something they do which bothers you, and you do so in a respectful way, then there's no need for them to blow up, especially if they really care about you, they should value the fact that you care enough about your relationship to smooth things out.
Sometimes you might have one person in a relationship that reaches a point of growth before the other person does, if you find yourself reaching a point which you view as beneficial to your growth, then you owe it to the person you're in a relationship with to tell them why you view that point as being beneficial to yourself, and how you think it might help them grow as well, a real friend/partner will listen with an open mind.
Again, this all comes down to communication, and trust in your friend/partner to value what you say to them.
I think if you're around people that are spreading rumors, then you should find new friends ASAP, there really are decent people out there, don't limit yourself to one group alone, find people that have similar goals as yourself, or are at a similar level of maturity.
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bloodsheen
ChemChaplin



Registered: 09/24/08
Posts: 7,659
Last seen: 4 years, 14 days
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Re: Blame [Re: Lucis]
#23942958 - 12/20/16 10:22 AM (7 years, 1 month ago) |
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For my specific situation, my friend got himself a real girlfriend for the first time and hes decided shes his entire world and hes gonna hold onto her with both hands and white knuckles. A mistake billions of people have made over the millenia, but a path I cannot go down with him. He doesn't understand my decision to cut ties with him because hes so blinded by his feelings for this girl. Someday maybe (when they fall apart most likely) we'll cross paths again, but not for now
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A cautious young fellow named Lodge / Had seat belts installed in his Dodge. / When his date was strapped in / He committed a sin / Without even leaving the garage. That's clever, isn't it?-A boy and his dog
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Rosen_Rot
Learning



Registered: 12/06/14
Posts: 1,225
Loc: Goa
Last seen: 11 months, 22 days
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I have kept a relationship with someone for 5 years, we have gone through a lot together, did a lot of stupid shit and I can vouch that putting blame on things is critically toxic. IME I think that's what eventually lead to the death of that relationship and sad to say it was by my hand and anger issues. For me it was worth to continue struggling, I never loved anyone like that before in my life and I am having a hard time convincing myself if that will ever happen again. There were a lot of things that I thought were impossible for me to do and without that helping hand I don't know where I would be, both emotional and mental strength. The relationship was valuable to me, it was worth for me to continue to improve myself especially when the driving force was high.
I guess what I'm saying is that one should assess on how important the other person is to them and how valuable is their influence on your self development. I wouldn't keep, say, people like pick up artists as friends, their mind frame and lifestyle simply doesn't benefit my development and the direction I want the self to evolve. This doesn't mean I can't talk to them, connect with them....etc Their influence on my life would be strictly limited and kept at a safe distance.
In any case I think fighting to be right or push blame onto someone is not very productive nor logical cause it leads to more disputes and not solutions. Not everyone is able to understand it and the ego plays a lot of roles.
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"The internet has one rule; use or be used" - Bjeldiablo ''there is no loneliness, only moments where contentment is fleeting'' SBJs "The Basics" 3iRiS9 "Cirque du freak" B+ BONANZA
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bloodsheen
ChemChaplin



Registered: 09/24/08
Posts: 7,659
Last seen: 4 years, 14 days
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Quote:
Rosen_Rot said: I guess what I'm saying is that one should assess on how important the other person is to them and how valuable is their influence on your self development. I wouldn't keep, say, people like pick up artists as friends, their mind frame and lifestyle simply doesn't benefit my development and the direction I want the self to evolve. This doesn't mean I can't talk to them, connect with them....etc Their influence on my life would be strictly limited and kept at a safe distance.
I used to hate this, people who seemed to be your friend but really they aren't. But as I got older I realized that if you just pay attention you know who really gives a shit about you. I was just too underdeveloped socially to understand those subtlties. Some guys out there are just fun to be around, even if you feel like deep down they are a garbage human being. Plus sometimes you learn stuff about yourself in getting to know people you don't really like.
I've been surprised actually how much getting to know some fucking awful human beings has changed me. I like REALLY want to be a better person now. After seeing a giant seething pool of arrogance, selfishness, narcissism, laziness, and just general lack of compassion for their fellow man, I realized I actually did want to be able to consider myself a good person.
Woah, sorry, super stoned, way off topic. Anyway, of your point, I felt like I should have mattered enough to my friend to give me like 8 hours of his life a month to me. I completely changed that guys life, he was literally about to kill himself back in my home state and I convinced him to move out here to Colorado, I got him a job, he met a big group of friends through this job, like seriously nobody has ever done more for him than me in his entire life.
But I'm well aware that hes just lost in his girlfriend. Its a fact that someday he'll look back on his behavior and be super ashamed. So I just have to accept that for now we can't be friends. But we've only been good friends for maybe 18 months, so I guess that made it a bit easier
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A cautious young fellow named Lodge / Had seat belts installed in his Dodge. / When his date was strapped in / He committed a sin / Without even leaving the garage. That's clever, isn't it?-A boy and his dog
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Rosen_Rot
Learning



Registered: 12/06/14
Posts: 1,225
Loc: Goa
Last seen: 11 months, 22 days
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Quote:
bloodsheen said: Some guys out there are just fun to be around, even if you feel like deep down they are a garbage human being.
You have no idea how much time I wasted from my life hanging around garbage people simply because they were fun. Till this day I'm at a loss on how smart that was, probably not, but it was self-destructive wild that I enjoyed if that makes any sense what so ever
It has happened to my older brother, I grew up seeing that happen to him and others. He has lots friends cause of girls and he has stopped talking to friends cause of a girlfriend. It happens and you just have to accept that this is their learning curve, eventually they will realize, just like you did, that it's not such a good idea, to say the least lol
I chose my ex-girlfriend over my friend, the choice was mostly due to him being a bad influence on me, not just out of the blue or simply because I was horny, he really did cause me to destroy myself and instilled a lot of manipulation and played with my weakness to being gullible. I just did not like the way he used me for his own motives. Anyway, now I ended up alone, well not completely, got 1-3 good friends here and there but my social life is totally destroyed, no idea how to recover from it either but I'm using this time to just better myself.
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"The internet has one rule; use or be used" - Bjeldiablo ''there is no loneliness, only moments where contentment is fleeting'' SBJs "The Basics" 3iRiS9 "Cirque du freak" B+ BONANZA
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bloodsheen
ChemChaplin



Registered: 09/24/08
Posts: 7,659
Last seen: 4 years, 14 days
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Its funny, three times in my life now the most logical, intelligent people I've known have gotten themselves into the worst relationships. I guess emotional intelligence really is a thing
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A cautious young fellow named Lodge / Had seat belts installed in his Dodge. / When his date was strapped in / He committed a sin / Without even leaving the garage. That's clever, isn't it?-A boy and his dog
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demiu5
humans, lol


Registered: 08/18/05
Posts: 43,948
Loc: the popcorn stadium
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Quote:
bloodsheen said: Anyone here manage to keep a relationship of any sort together even through impossible odds? Was it worth the effort in your mind? In the past it hasn't been worth it at all, which is kinda why I'm making this post. Maybe I'm just an asshole and I can't keep my shit together
i thought i had.
my first girlfriend and at one point best-friend. we had mostly moved beyond our physical relationship, and the issues that had arisen from it in the past (she cheated the second time around, a couple years after we first dated; i had gotten over it). we slowly rebuilt our friendship over a couple years, and started hanging out frequently, doing just about everything together. still platonic. at one point she was hurting financially. i offered a small loan and to bring her into my business to help get her feet on the ground and not lose her car/rented-house. everything was good for quite a few months, our relationship wasn't souring, despite money being involved. she paid the loan back, as well as the initial investment for materials. we kept our business relationship going. after about 9 months, she took an opportunity to move across country. she had sold all her merchandise but had no money to repay for the materials. the days grew closer before she was leaving. she left a few days sooner than had last told me, with no notice, and never repaid the ~$8k that was owed. she quickly hit hard times where she moved, as she couldn't find a job (small town). she contacted me at one point, in-transit asking for money. i reminded her she still owed me a large sum and had put me in a tight spot financially. she then said she had no way of ever repaying the debt, nor would she if she could, and that i was a controlling, manipulative asshole who was only using her, etc....no recognition of the opportunity i provided for her, or the help early on, nothing was her fault. i was the one to blame.
i told her to get fucked.
a few years ago, i reached out to her and explained to her how terrible i felt about her actions and my response, and that i missed her friendship more than the pain that was caused, that i hoped we could work towards repairing or beginning anew. no reply. in retrospect, for the best that we haven't reconnected.
that was a 10+ year friendship, through all kinds of weather.
-------------------- channel your inner Larry David
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RJ Tubs 202


Registered: 09/20/08
Posts: 6,016
Loc: USA
Last seen: 12 hours, 16 minutes
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Quote:
bloodsheen said:
Its funny, three times in my life now the most logical, intelligent people I've known have gotten themselves into the worst relationships.
It's interesting we often assume logic & intelligence will protect us from suffering.
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sudly
Darwin's stagger


Registered: 01/05/15
Posts: 10,810
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If anyone utilised unscrupulous behaviour to gas light someone into doubting their own sanity I think it's fair enough to say they should be held responsible for their own behaviours.
As far as I see it blame is responsibility, though too often blame is misdirected due to an interference of individual ego.
It can be tough to recognise manipulation but when it is recognised I think there should be an apology from the side that utilised manipulative behaviour.
Quote:
Gaslighting or gas-lighting is manipulation through persistent denial, misdirection, contradiction, and lying in an attempt to destabilize and delegitimize a target. Its intent to is sow seeds of doubt in the subject, hoping to make them question their own memory, perception, and sanity. Instances may range from the denial by an abuser that previous abusive incidents ever occurred up to the staging of bizarre events by the abuser with the intention of disorienting the victim.
-------------------- I am whatever Darwin needs me to be.
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