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Senor_Doobie
Snake Pit Champion


Registered: 08/11/99
Posts: 22,678
Loc: Trump Train
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Re: Who's Glad Trump Won? [Re: Apostle]
#23943295 - 12/20/16 12:34 PM (7 years, 1 month ago) |
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Quote:
Apostle said: There is a group of people who have declared war on the West and Western Values.
We do get attacked, quite regularly now, by people who have been indoctrinated by the enemies propaganda.
This. Two ideologies are at war. Western and Muslim. Choosing to serve in that war is honorable.
I hope that the war ends soon, but I have no idea what the world will look like when it does.
I wish 9/11 had never happened.
-------------------- "America: Fuck yeah!" -- Alexthegreat “Nothing can now be believed which is seen in a newspaper. Truth itself becomes suspicious by being put into that polluted vehicle. The real extent of this state of misinformation is known only to those who are in situations to confront facts within their knowledge with the lies of the day.” -- Thomas Jefferson The greatest sin of mankind is ignorance. The press takes [Trump] literally, but not seriously; his supporters take him seriously, but not literally. --Salena Zeto (9/23/16)
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demiu5
humans, lol


Registered: 08/18/05
Posts: 43,948
Loc: the popcorn stadium
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Quote:
Senor_Doobie said:
Quote:
Apostle said: There is a group of people who have declared war on the West and Western Values.
We do get attacked, quite regularly now, by people who have been indoctrinated by the enemies propaganda.
This. Two ideologies are at war. Western and Muslim. Choosing to serve in that war is honorable.
I hope that the war ends soon, but I have no idea what the world will look like when it does.
I wish 9/11 had never happened.
if our IDEOLOGIES can't survive an attack, is it an ideology worth living by? how does having an idea being attacked translate into a person or persons being attacked? and do you feel the corporate expansion/exploitation is an ideology you hold or align with?
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hostileuniverse said:
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demiu5 said:
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Apostle said: I love this country though and i don't think there has ever been a nation or civilization that didn't have some blood on their hands. It's just part of life.The "assholes" in power have created a free and relatively safe society and i'm grateful for that.
loving one's country and being willing to serve/die for IT is one thing; dying for coporate interests OF it is another
if our country was attacked, home-soil, i'd be willing to consider defending. however, no military actions in 70+ years have been based on American, 50-state soil
Interesting, so I assume you don't consider terrorism an actual attack, what do you consider it and what would be your solution to it?
i consider terrorism an attack, if civilians are injured/killed. should we wage war on middle/high-schoolers for the 'terrorist attacks' they incited these past few years? what about all white nationalists such as Dylann Roof, who so graciously bestowed fear upon others in the name of his own personal ideology?
-------------------- channel your inner Larry David
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Apostle
Philanthropist


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Re: Who's Glad Trump Won? [Re: demiu5]
#23943340 - 12/20/16 12:49 PM (7 years, 1 month ago) |
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We have survived the attacks though... Our ideology is one of free will and the right to pursue happiness. Anyone can come here and live a peaceful life if they choose to. It's not like we are dead set on exterminating others because of their beliefs. They are.
--------------------
Google: Pippa Bacca
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demiu5
humans, lol


Registered: 08/18/05
Posts: 43,948
Loc: the popcorn stadium
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Re: Who's Glad Trump Won? [Re: Apostle]
#23943354 - 12/20/16 12:53 PM (7 years, 1 month ago) |
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Quote:
Apostle said: We have survived the attacks though... Our ideology is one of free will and the right to pursue happiness. Anyone can come here and live a peaceful life if they choose to. It's not like we are dead set on exterminating others because of their beliefs. They are.
yet it is our business to TELL THEM what to do? so our authorities can claim free will all day long, so long as that allows them to exercise their free will against another's free will [that we claim they have based on our own ideology]?
........
and when were, specifically, AMERICAN ideologies attacked? Europe and America/Canada/Mexico are lumped in as the 'West', yet i'm pretty sure all four groups hold independent ideologies as well
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Senor_Doobie
Snake Pit Champion


Registered: 08/11/99
Posts: 22,678
Loc: Trump Train
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Re: Who's Glad Trump Won? [Re: Apostle]
#23943364 - 12/20/16 12:55 PM (7 years, 1 month ago) |
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Exactly.
It's for the people beholdent to that ideology to recognize its flaws and ultimately to reject it. But until they do, they can be dangerous.
Let's not pretend that the American ideal is inferior or even equal to this Islamic fundamentalism. And let us also not pretend that extremists beholdent to that ideology are not dangerous. And that they are not our enemies.
-------------------- "America: Fuck yeah!" -- Alexthegreat “Nothing can now be believed which is seen in a newspaper. Truth itself becomes suspicious by being put into that polluted vehicle. The real extent of this state of misinformation is known only to those who are in situations to confront facts within their knowledge with the lies of the day.” -- Thomas Jefferson The greatest sin of mankind is ignorance. The press takes [Trump] literally, but not seriously; his supporters take him seriously, but not literally. --Salena Zeto (9/23/16)
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demiu5
humans, lol


Registered: 08/18/05
Posts: 43,948
Loc: the popcorn stadium
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Quote:
Senor_Doobie said: And that they are not our enemies.
they are our enemies because we disagree on how to live life? they are our enemies because they choose to exercise "free-will" for their way of life and choose not to listen when an imperial nation tells them, "no, no, you can't do that; we won't allow it. oh and here are some more sanctions against your governments or here are some more tariffs on your exports"
d'ohkay
-------------------- channel your inner Larry David
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Apostle
Philanthropist


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Re: Who's Glad Trump Won? [Re: demiu5]
#23943375 - 12/20/16 12:58 PM (7 years, 1 month ago) |
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We have freedom of religion in our country. The only people we prosecute are assholes who try to commit terrorists attacks. It's unfortunate that civilians get caught in the process but that's just part of war. As for the kids or teens, i've seen plenty of videos of kids committing the same atrocities as adults and if im not mistaken a young teen tried to detonate a nail bomb(or something like thaT) in europe recently.
 The only thing we "tell them" to do is stop fucking killing people and spreading an ideology that advocates such behavior.
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demiu5
humans, lol


Registered: 08/18/05
Posts: 43,948
Loc: the popcorn stadium
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Re: Who's Glad Trump Won? [Re: Apostle]
#23943390 - 12/20/16 01:01 PM (7 years, 1 month ago) |
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Quote:
Apostle said:
The only thing we "tell them" to do is stop fucking killing people and spreading an ideology that advocates such behavior.
so then we are either hypocrites with our ideologies, or we are ignorant, warm-mongering, greedy pigs
American free-will. We'll give you the cake and tell you when and how much you can eat.
-------------------- channel your inner Larry David
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Apostle
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Re: Who's Glad Trump Won? [Re: demiu5]
#23943397 - 12/20/16 01:03 PM (7 years, 1 month ago) |
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I can accept some of that. All great nations have waged war though. its how we became a nation in the first place. We are only seen as the bad guys because we are winning.
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Ezuma
Gontish Wizard



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Re: Who's Glad Trump Won? [Re: Apostle] 2
#23943418 - 12/20/16 01:08 PM (7 years, 1 month ago) |
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Quote:
Apostle said: I can accept some of that. All great nations have waged war though. its how we became a nation in the first place. We are only seen as the bad guys because we are winning.
no we ARE the bad guys because we have power and we abuse it. We have the potential to change the world for the better and to act altruistically and instead we serve corporate oligarchs, most of us unknowingly. we aren't at war with Islam because Islam sought us out, we're at war with some sects of Islam because of a context going back centuries, but also because of very recent very predictably stupid military engagements overseas. This of course is because america's biggest industry is war, and peace is the last thing anyone in power wants
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Senor_Doobie
Snake Pit Champion


Registered: 08/11/99
Posts: 22,678
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Re: Who's Glad Trump Won? [Re: Ezuma]
#23943445 - 12/20/16 01:19 PM (7 years, 1 month ago) |
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Quote:
Ezuma said:
Quote:
Apostle said: I can accept some of that. All great nations have waged war though. its how we became a nation in the first place. We are only seen as the bad guys because we are winning.
no we ARE the bad guys because we have power and we abuse it. We have the potential to change the world for the better and to act altruistically and instead we serve corporate oligarchs, most of us unknowingly. we aren't at war with Islam because Islam sought us out, we're at war with some sects of Islam because of a context going back centuries, but also because of very recent very predictably stupid military engagements overseas. This of course is because america's biggest industry is war, and peace is the last thing anyone in power wants
It's an oversimplification. The US is in no way innocent, that's true. The war in Iraq and our part in the Arab Spring uprisings were bad-intended and bad-outcomed.
America has enemies within and without. And I would love to see peace in the middle east. It would solve a lot of our problems. But as it is, we are at war. And soldiers don't join the military to serve corporate interests. They go to war for the American ideal. (the just ones anyway). I just hope that we spend the rest of our time in this war stabilizing the region. But of course, our very presence there could hinder that more than help it.
It's complicated to because right now, the anti-Western extremists are largely not in power. That is why the extremists are revolting against the governments there. If they ever become soveriegn, the war will get worse.
-------------------- "America: Fuck yeah!" -- Alexthegreat “Nothing can now be believed which is seen in a newspaper. Truth itself becomes suspicious by being put into that polluted vehicle. The real extent of this state of misinformation is known only to those who are in situations to confront facts within their knowledge with the lies of the day.” -- Thomas Jefferson The greatest sin of mankind is ignorance. The press takes [Trump] literally, but not seriously; his supporters take him seriously, but not literally. --Salena Zeto (9/23/16)
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akira_akuma
Φύσις κρύπτεσθαι ὕψιστος φιλεῖ


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Re: Who's Glad Trump Won? [Re: Apostle]
#23943462 - 12/20/16 01:23 PM (7 years, 1 month ago) |
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Quote:
Apostle said:
The only thing we "tell them" to do is stop fucking killing people and spreading an ideology that advocates such behavior.
that sounds remarkably similar to the justification for Vietnam.
Quote:
Apostle said: I can accept some of that. All great nations have waged war though. its how we became a nation in the first place. We are only seen as the bad guys because we are winning.
can't possibly be that your bullshitting people.
Quote:
It's complicated to because right now, the anti-Western extremists are largely not in power. That is why the extremists are revolting against the governments there. If they ever become soveriegn, the war will get worse.
America could never let people just kill themselves...no, they need to take corporate action, every single time.
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demiu5
humans, lol


Registered: 08/18/05
Posts: 43,948
Loc: the popcorn stadium
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Re: Who's Glad Trump Won? [Re: Apostle] 1
#23943466 - 12/20/16 01:24 PM (7 years, 1 month ago) |
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Quote:
Apostle said: I can accept some of that. All great nations have waged war though. its how we became a nation in the first place. We are only seen as the bad guys because we are winning.
israel, panama, vietnam, chile
four of the big ones. four of numerous ones. what winning took place? at best, the US gov't kept their foot in the door, despite ultimately losing those, long enough to have trickles of consumerist enterprise. why are/were any of those our business?
oh yea! CAPITALISM/DEMOCRACY! and WE were the nation to spread it, as WE say it IS RIGHT FOR ALL, despite what they say.
now how is this any different from radical Muslims trying to spread their way of life? or the Christian crusades? or.....on and on and on throughout history
let me revisit and simplify my free-will rebuttal. America: You have the free-will to accept our forced policies, you have the free-will to resist and endure the consequences, or you have the free-will to die.
one man's trash is another man's treasure. one man's free-will is another man's imprisonment
-------------------- channel your inner Larry David
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Apostle
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Re: Who's Glad Trump Won? [Re: demiu5]
#23943475 - 12/20/16 01:26 PM (7 years, 1 month ago) |
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I support another Crusade so you'll be hard pressed to convince me the original ones were a bad thing.
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demiu5
humans, lol


Registered: 08/18/05
Posts: 43,948
Loc: the popcorn stadium
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Re: Who's Glad Trump Won? [Re: Apostle] 1
#23943482 - 12/20/16 01:27 PM (7 years, 1 month ago) |
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Quote:
Apostle said: I support another Crusade so you'll be hard pressed to convince me the original ones were a bad thing.
so what separates you from a muslim radical, then, as far as the thought process goes, the ideology?
-------------------- channel your inner Larry David
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qman
Stranger

Registered: 12/06/06
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Re: Who's Glad Trump Won? [Re: demiu5] 1
#23943485 - 12/20/16 01:28 PM (7 years, 1 month ago) |
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Quote:
demiu5 said:
Quote:
Apostle said: I can accept some of that. All great nations have waged war though. its how we became a nation in the first place. We are only seen as the bad guys because we are winning.
israel, panama, vietnam, chile
four of the big ones. four of numerous ones. what winning took place? at best, the US gov't kept their foot in the door, despite ultimately losing those, long enough to have trickles of consumerist enterprise. why are/were any of those our business?
oh yea! CAPITALISM/DEMOCRACY! and WE were the nation to spread it, as WE say it IS RIGHT FOR ALL, despite what they say.
now how is this any different from radical Muslims trying to spread their way of life?
Because it has been responsible for the majority of human progress the past hundred years, it has enhanced standard of livings for billions of people, radical Islam could never say the same, that's why there's a BIG difference.
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Apostle
Philanthropist


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Re: Who's Glad Trump Won? [Re: demiu5]
#23943487 - 12/20/16 01:28 PM (7 years, 1 month ago) |
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A superior Army.
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demiu5
humans, lol


Registered: 08/18/05
Posts: 43,948
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Re: Who's Glad Trump Won? [Re: qman]
#23943494 - 12/20/16 01:31 PM (7 years, 1 month ago) |
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Quote:
qman said:
Quote:
demiu5 said:
Quote:
Apostle said: I can accept some of that. All great nations have waged war though. its how we became a nation in the first place. We are only seen as the bad guys because we are winning.
israel, panama, vietnam, chile
four of the big ones. four of numerous ones. what winning took place? at best, the US gov't kept their foot in the door, despite ultimately losing those, long enough to have trickles of consumerist enterprise. why are/were any of those our business?
oh yea! CAPITALISM/DEMOCRACY! and WE were the nation to spread it, as WE say it IS RIGHT FOR ALL, despite what they say.
now how is this any different from radical Muslims trying to spread their way of life?
Because it has been responsible for the majority of human progress the past hundred years, it has enhanced standard of livings for billions of people, radical Islam could never say the same, that's why there's a BIG difference.
so ends justify the means in your world?
and the US couldn't have made those same progresses without invading nations an overthrowing governments, instilling puppet-governments that end up as bad or worse, and accruing hatred world-wide?
-------------------- channel your inner Larry David
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demiu5
humans, lol


Registered: 08/18/05
Posts: 43,948
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Re: Who's Glad Trump Won? [Re: Apostle] 1
#23943499 - 12/20/16 01:33 PM (7 years, 1 month ago) |
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Quote:
Apostle said: A superior Army.
touting free-will and sporting a superior army, or force-of-will
speak softly, carry a big stick
-------------------- channel your inner Larry David
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Apostle
Philanthropist


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Re: Who's Glad Trump Won? [Re: demiu5]
#23943502 - 12/20/16 01:35 PM (7 years, 1 month ago) |
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Quote:
demiu5 said:
speak softly, carry a big stick
Pretty much
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