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OfflineVTsal
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King oyster straw logs turn green - why?
    #23940747 - 12/19/16 04:21 PM (7 years, 1 month ago)

I've made three king oyster straw logs in the past month or so and all of them have turned green.  If anyone can give me some suggestions as to why, I'd appreciate it. 

Here's my process:  Four pounds or so of dry chopped straw soaked in wood ash/water solution overnight of pH at least 12.  Hang mesh bags of straw to drain 5-7 hours.  Mix straw with 4-5 quarts of fully colonized WBS.  Stuff bag, end up with about 20" long, 9" diameter bag.  Poke 15 or so holes with arrowhead, hang bag in incubation room, 75 degrees F and dark.  Wait about 10 days and watch bag turn green.

This process is working great for my regular oysters.  I know kings can grow in straw logs too, but need supplementation to do well.  I'll worry about that later as right now I can't even get a log to colonize despite keeping it as simple as possible.   

I'm using a bag of rye grain spawn bought from a reputable company.  Both the spawn bag and the WBS jars that I make from that bag look fine and smell good.  No signs of green whatsoever.  What I'm doing obviously isn't working.  Any suggestions as to what I'm doing wrong?  Thanks.



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Offlinedrake89
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Re: King oyster straw logs turn green - why? [Re: VTsal]
    #23940831 - 12/19/16 04:52 PM (7 years, 1 month ago)

use hydrated lime instead of wood ash.  spawn with sawdust and grain spawn.  that also doesn't look like green mold on this end, it looks like algae.  wierd since I'm sure it's probably mold.  you could maybe stand to dry your straw more possibly.


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OfflineMorePies
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Re: King oyster straw logs turn green - why? [Re: drake89]
    #23940914 - 12/19/16 05:20 PM (7 years, 1 month ago)

Are you seeing any mycelium before they turn green?  Adding gypsum will help absorb extra water as well.


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Re: King oyster straw logs turn green - why? [Re: MorePies]
    #23940965 - 12/19/16 05:38 PM (7 years, 1 month ago)

I have wasted lots of time and money trying to grow KO on pasteurised straw. Different strains, spawn ratio's, pasteurisation methods, supplemented, unsupplemented, magic voodoo juice, sacrifices to the mushroom god, everything. Never had any success in the 6 years I have tried - but annoyingly I know it can be done because others have. check out "mushroom adventures" on YT - used to post on here as "Buckeye oysters"

Basically unlike other Oysters KO is not a quick coloniser so you cant get away with so much, but I an Fkd if I know why it works for some and not others. - It's not like I am noob at this !

Now after a years break you have got me thinking that maybe there is something I have not tried...Arrrrg!:facepalm:


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OfflineVTsal
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Re: King oyster straw logs turn green - why? [Re: drake89]
    #23941022 - 12/19/16 05:57 PM (7 years, 1 month ago)

OK - lime instead of wood ash.  Why?  I use wood ash because I heat my house with wood and I have ashes galore.  I also read on a PDF on the Aloha Medicinal site that ashes gave the best BE when compared with lime and steam.  Lime would be certainly be cleaner and the cost is probably pretty low so I'm not opposed to it at all.  If you're soaking straw in pH 12 water, what difference does it makes what you used to get that water to a pH of 12?

I've read about using both sawdust spawn and grain spawn for kings.  Why both?

I have been guilty of not drying my straw enough.  I had a few of my regular oyster bags get stinky, fermented butts.  I thought I had learned my lesson from those.  These king bags don't look or smell like that, but it could still be a possibility.

MorePies - Yes.  I'm seeing mycelium before green, though growth seems slower than my regular oysters.  Is this normal?  Is eryngii a slower grower than ostreatus?  Is the slow growth letting the green mold win?  Do I need a higher spawn ratio?

Thanks for your responses.


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OfflineVTsal
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Re: King oyster straw logs turn green - why? [Re: solarity]
    #23941291 - 12/19/16 06:56 PM (7 years, 1 month ago)

I have looked at Mushroom Adventures on YT.  Made me think - if he can do it, so can I.  My other oysters have been doing great.  How hard can it be?  It's been a frustrating, humbling experience.


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Offlinedrake89
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Re: King oyster straw logs turn green - why? [Re: VTsal]
    #23941308 - 12/19/16 07:00 PM (7 years, 1 month ago)

Quote:

VTsal said:
I have looked at Mushroom Adventures on YT.  Made me think - if he can do it, so can I.  My other oysters have been doing great.  How hard can it be?  It's been a frustrating, humbling experience.



kings aren't as fast as others and straw will probably go green even if you heat treat it after 2 weeks.  you can't get pH 13 or 14 with wood ash, but you can get close with hydrated lime.


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OfflinepoofterFroth
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Re: King oyster straw logs turn green - why? [Re: drake89]
    #23941555 - 12/19/16 08:05 PM (7 years, 1 month ago)

Kings spawned to heat pasteurized straw with grain is my go to method for them. It fucking rocks.

P. ostreatus straw logs pin 2 weeks after my spawning, Kings take an extra week before pinning.





If your turning green, try upping your spawn ratio. I've never used wood ash so maybe the extra spawn is needed. I spawn my king logs heavy and they explode with mushrooms. The finesse is in finding the best hole size/placement so you don't choke em off or get major under the plastic pins and fruits.

Or it could just be bad a batch of straw, spawn or a bad pasteurization run. Make sure you're clean as well as your clothes.

Either way. I'd get some of that grain spawn onto a plate to be sure it is in fact clean.


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OfflineVTsal
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Re: King oyster straw logs turn green - why? [Re: poofterFroth]
    #23941716 - 12/19/16 08:54 PM (7 years, 1 month ago)

Quote:

I spawn my king logs heavy




This sounds like one thing I might be doing wrong.  What exactly do you mean by "heavy"?  I can't be specific about spawn weight, sorry, but I've been using roughly 1 quart of grain spawn per 1 lb of dry straw.  Too little?

I tried different straw bales from different sources.  Made no difference.  Each log had its own separate straw pasteurization soak on different days.  Personal hygiene?  Maybe.  I'll take a shower beforehand next time. 

I made plates from the original bag before I did anything with it and they grew fine.  I'll make more to double check. 

I'll try lime for a higher pH soak, and use a higher spawn ratio.  Have a shower and make more plates.  That's a start. 

Thanks for your help.


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OfflineForresterM
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Re: King oyster straw logs turn green - why? [Re: VTsal]
    #23942002 - 12/19/16 11:21 PM (7 years, 1 month ago)

Aside from the really good advice you've already gotten from Drake and Solarity, the only thing I would add is maybe try another strain?  Kings can vary greatly by strain, in colonization time and who knows what other factors.

As far as using a higher spawn rate?  Yeah, maybe it'll colonize quicker and be fine (if you're using the best pasteurization method, ie; lime vs. wood ash like Drake I think said), but higher spawn rate = higher overall amounts of nutrients which CAN equal even more likely to go green, especially when you're talking pasteurized straw logs vs. sterilized filter patch bags.  My thoughts are, if your pasteurization is the problem, upping the spawn rate is only going to make it worse and more likely to mold.  But that's just me, I'm no TC :wink:


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Have some medicinal mushrooms and want to get the most out of them?  Try this double extraction method.


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OfflineFerather
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Re: King oyster straw logs turn green - why? [Re: Forrester]
    #23942447 - 12/20/16 05:37 AM (7 years, 1 month ago)

Incoming cleanup. Wood ash can be used to increase pH the same as lime, however it does contain lots of broken down nutrients.
This is why BE is improved, however high water content and lots of broken down nutrients = mold germinating.

The straw goes from "open air safe" to not a good idea to keep in the air, at all.

King oyster unlike other oysters likes to accumulate Iodine.


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OfflineVTsal
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Re: King oyster straw logs turn green - why? [Re: Forrester]
    #23942500 - 12/20/16 06:44 AM (7 years, 1 month ago)

Good point about the higher spawn rate, more nutrients, more likely to go green.  Using more spawn could go either way.  I guess I'll find out.

I had the same thought about trying a different strain.  I have another bag of king spawn that came in the mail yesterday from a completely different source than the first one.  I don't think the first one was bad, just maybe not the right strain for what I'm trying to do. 

Another quick question - for kings, why not mix sawdust and straw as a substrate?  I've never heard of anyone doing this.  Why not?


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OfflineFerather
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Re: King oyster straw logs turn green - why? [Re: VTsal]
    #23942647 - 12/20/16 08:09 AM (7 years, 1 month ago)

I've done 50/50 paper pellets and pine pellets. King oyster does not mind 50% pine wood.
Sadly mold contamination rate increased, due to broken down wood present.

You won't win against mold unless you prevent germination.


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OfflineMorePies
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Re: King oyster straw logs turn green - why? [Re: Ferather]
    #23943776 - 12/20/16 03:23 PM (7 years, 1 month ago)

I can't always find a steady supply of choice Sawdust,  what do you mean by broken down wood present?


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OfflineFerather
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Re: King oyster straw logs turn green - why? [Re: MorePies]
    #23943806 - 12/20/16 03:41 PM (7 years, 1 month ago)

Mold has a much higher chance to germinate on sawdust than say a solid wood log.


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Growing mushrooms, general guide and information (Ferather's Journal), https://ibb.co/rG3rML2

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DTS DCH Driver for Realtek [DTS:X] - Unlocked and reprogrammed.


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OfflineForresterM
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Re: King oyster straw logs turn green - why? [Re: VTsal]
    #23947567 - 12/21/16 10:27 PM (7 years, 1 month ago)

Quote:

VTsal said:
Another quick question - for kings, why not mix sawdust and straw as a substrate?  I've never heard of anyone doing this.  Why not?




I don't see any reason why not.  I always did mine on just wood pellets, unsupplemented.  Never had any problems with contams, but the yields were pretty shitty since it wasn't supplemented in any way. 

Now remember, wood pellets are an entirely different monster than real sawdust.  You can use the shittiest "bucket-tek" type of pasteurization for wood pellets and have everything come out fine, since they're subjected to a lot of heat and compression and whatever else in the manufacturing process.  Wood pellets are great for this reason, that's why I always used them for everything.

As far as real sawdust, I have no experience with it and don't know if wood ash or lime pasteurization works well for it or not :shrug:

If you can find wood pellets, give them a shot, alone or mixed in with the straw.  Boiling water poured over the dry pellets is all the pasteurization I have ever needed when dealing with them.


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Have some medicinal mushrooms and want to get the most out of them?  Try this double extraction method.


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OfflineVTsal
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Re: King oyster straw logs turn green - why? [Re: Forrester]
    #23948347 - 12/22/16 08:30 AM (7 years, 1 month ago)

Yes - I'm talking about fuel pellets.  They're readily available and cheap here in northern VT.  I've used the boiling water soak with them before with good results so I'll give it a try.  I'll mix some in with the pasteurized straw for the next king bag and see what happens.  Maybe the bag will colonize faster with sawdust added.

One more question I've been wondering - if I were to add wheat bran as a supplement, how would I pasteurize it?

Thanks


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Re: King oyster straw logs turn green - why? [Re: VTsal]
    #23949262 - 12/22/16 02:01 PM (7 years, 1 month ago)

I would just focus on first growing out a clean, successfully fruited king straw log before going for the hat trick...straw+sawdust+bran combo. :popcorn:


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OfflineVTsal
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Re: King oyster straw logs turn green - why? [Re: poofterFroth]
    #23949454 - 12/22/16 03:23 PM (7 years, 1 month ago)

Yeah.  You're right.


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OfflineForresterM
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Re: King oyster straw logs turn green - why? [Re: poofterFroth]
    #23949807 - 12/22/16 06:17 PM (7 years, 1 month ago)

Quote:

poofterFroth said:
I would just focus on first growing out a clean, successfully fruited king straw log before going for the hat trick...straw+sawdust+bran combo. :popcorn:




:whathesaid:

And even when you do get success, don't throw any supplementation in there and think pasteurization is going to work.  If you supplement enough to make it worth it (king's like up to 40% I've heard), you will have to sterilize the whole substrate and spawn in front of a flowhood.  No method of pasteurization is going to prevent green on that rich of a substrate.

At least not that I've heard of, if you find a way, let me know!  :laugh:


--------------------
Repugnant is a creature who would squander the ability to lift an eye to heaven, conscious of his fleeting time here.
-------------------

Have some medicinal mushrooms and want to get the most out of them?  Try this double extraction method.


Edited by Forrester (12/22/16 06:19 PM)


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