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Falcon91Wolvrn03
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The Gold Standard 1
#23937148 - 12/18/16 03:00 AM (7 years, 1 month ago) |
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Another thread (starting here) discussed the gold standard as being a good idea. Rather than taking that thread off topic, I'd like to start a new thread about it here.
First of all, forty leading economists from the top universities were asked if the gold standard would be better for the average American. Not one felt it would.
Based on the global warming discussions here, it's clear that some people here don't trust people who study something for a living, so I'd like someone to name at least one advantage of going back to the gold standard for discussion and analysis.
Can anyone provide a reason why the gold standard would be better?
Edit: I actually meant to link to this article above where I said leading economists don't believe in the gold standard.
Edited by Falcon91Wolvrn03 (12/18/16 04:19 PM)
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hostileuniverse
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psilynut
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It would be better if you and I could form a small mining company , go out find super rich easy to mine ground on public land and make allot at money with minimal effort . That's not the reality of gold mining anymore though . Gold is getting harder and harder to come by and it's just going to keep getting harder to find . The best I can do is about 5 dollars per hr and this is in places that were historically rich .

A gold standard would put the future of our currency and the entire supply in the hands of a few large mining companies that are able to produce significant amounts . That seems like a terrible idea .
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ballsalsa
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an interesting article.
a couple of things that i noted:
Quote:
The gold standard should guarantee price stability in the long run, but you know what they say about the long run -- we're all dead.
I'm not sure that this mentality should guide monetary policy. There are those who come after us to think of after all.
Quote:
Yes, the Fed has expanded its balance sheet to unprecedented levels, but if it hadn't done that prices would probably be falling a bit now. But how will the Fed eventually mop up all this liquidity it's created -- hasn't it lit the fuse of an inflation time-bomb? No. The Fed can increase the interest it pays on reserves, do reverse repos, or use term deposit facilities to prevent banks from lending out too much money, if it comes to that.
These three solutions proposed are essentially the same thing, and they are all incentives. They don't prevent anything at all.
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ballsalsa
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Re: The Gold Standard [Re: psilynut]
#23937813 - 12/18/16 11:51 AM (7 years, 1 month ago) |
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asteroids, bro. asteroids.
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psilynut
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Re: The Gold Standard [Re: ballsalsa]
#23937994 - 12/18/16 01:04 PM (7 years, 1 month ago) |
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What do you think would happen to the value of gold if we returned to the gold standard ? There isn't enough of it out of the ground to come close to backing up the amount money we need in circulation to keep our economy going . I ve read articles that theorize if we returned it would go way up , 400 to 500 percent . If you can find gold everyday easily you might like It. It Took me a day playing in a river to get the gold in that pic, it's a little over a gram worth about 40 bucks maybe . I would probably like a gold standard and a really high gold price . I know I can do allot better .
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ballsalsa
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Re: The Gold Standard [Re: psilynut]
#23938191 - 12/18/16 02:11 PM (7 years, 1 month ago) |
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Quote:
psilynut said: What do you think would happen to the value of gold if we returned to the gold standard ?
let's say for the sake of argument that it would increase.
Quote:
There isn't enough of it out of the ground to come close to backing up the amount money we need in circulation to keep our economy going .
why not? if the value of gold increases, then a smaller weight of gold could be used to represent the value of a dollar. Just don't tie the value of a dollar to an arbitrary weight of gold. Problem solved.
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Falcon91Wolvrn03
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Re: The Gold Standard [Re: ballsalsa] 1
#23938640 - 12/18/16 04:43 PM (7 years, 1 month ago) |
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Quote:
ballsalsa said: a couple of things that i noted:
Quote:
The gold standard should guarantee price stability in the long run, but you know what they say about the long run -- we're all dead.
I'm not sure that this mentality should guide monetary policy. There are those who come after us to think of after all.
I completely agree with you that this would be the wrong mentality if gold did eventually lead to price stability. However, I think the author doesn't really believe it will - I think he was just being generous to his readers who might think that way. The article uses empirical evidence to clearly show that gold has never lead to price stability, nor does it explain how possibly could.
Quote:
ballsalsa said:
Quote:
Yes, the Fed has expanded its balance sheet to unprecedented levels, but if it hadn't done that prices would probably be falling a bit now. But how will the Fed eventually mop up all this liquidity it's created -- hasn't it lit the fuse of an inflation time-bomb? No. The Fed can increase the interest it pays on reserves, do reverse repos, or use term deposit facilities to prevent banks from lending out too much money, if it comes to that.
These three solutions proposed are essentially the same thing, and they are all incentives. They don't prevent anything at all.
I don't follow what you're saying here. Are you just stating that incentivizing lower interest doesn't guarantee lower interest? Of course I agree, but it also makes lower interest far more likely.
-------------------- I am in a minority on the shroomery, as I frequently defend the opposing side when they have a point about something or when my side make believes something about them. I also attack my side if I think they're wrong. People here get very confused by that and think it means I prefer the other side.
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Falcon91Wolvrn03
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Re: The Gold Standard [Re: ballsalsa] 1
#23938650 - 12/18/16 04:47 PM (7 years, 1 month ago) |
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Quote:
ballsalsa said:
Quote:
psilynut said: There isn't enough of it out of the ground to come close to backing up the amount money we need in circulation to keep our economy going .
why not? if the value of gold increases, then a smaller weight of gold could be used to represent the value of a dollar. Just don't tie the value of a dollar to an arbitrary weight of gold. Problem solved.
Then what's the point of a gold standard? If my dollar today is worth a gram of gold, but tomorrow it's only worth 1/2 gram, then my money tomorrow is only worth half as much. Makes no sense to me to tie the dollar to a certain amount of gold if you're not really tying the dollar to that certain amount of gold.
-------------------- I am in a minority on the shroomery, as I frequently defend the opposing side when they have a point about something or when my side make believes something about them. I also attack my side if I think they're wrong. People here get very confused by that and think it means I prefer the other side.
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ballsalsa
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you were following just fine. I was just pointing out the difference between carrots and sticks. I was hoping to provoke further discussion because i am far from an expert in this field, and i am genuinely interested in what some of the regulars around here have to say on the subject.
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ballsalsa
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that is a good point. i suppose the only real advantage would be the ability to redeem your notes for specie at whatever the weight. I'm not sure what the practical value of that really is, but it sounds attractive i guess.
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LRG
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Quote:
Falcon91Wolvrn03 said:
Quote:
ballsalsa said:
Quote:
psilynut said: There isn't enough of it out of the ground to come close to backing up the amount money we need in circulation to keep our economy going .
why not? if the value of gold increases, then a smaller weight of gold could be used to represent the value of a dollar. Just don't tie the value of a dollar to an arbitrary weight of gold. Problem solved.
Then what's the point of a gold standard? If my dollar today is worth a gram of gold, but tomorrow it's only worth 1/2 gram, then my money tomorrow is only worth half as much. Makes no sense to me to tie the dollar to a certain amount of gold if you're not really tying the dollar to that certain amount of gold. 
Fact is your gram of gold is actually worth more than your dollar. I think like 30 times as much? IDK I'm not a master of coin, but gold is gold. The reason the Chinese could devalue their currency was because we switched from the Gold Standard. If we still ran on the Gold Standard they wouldn't of even entertained the thought. Trump is exaggerating when he says it is a giant slap in America's face because it is more like a giant black dildo right up our ass.
If the US were still on the Gold Standard we would have had a stable, steady value. As you know, America is practically the world's economy and we have a lot of gold.
The value of money can change. Gold is gold and will always be valuable. I would take a mountain of gold over 100 billion dollars every chance I had. Truth be told a mountain of gold would probably be worth 100 trillion dollars.
The Gold Standard was a good system but America became a consumer of goods and gold became a "good" they no longer needed. The goods we needed were smart phones, cars, technology and things of that sort. Not the sort of things that require a ton of gold to make. Another problem with it is that gold is gold, but money is money. You can't walk into a department store with a gold nugget and expect to buy a mink coat.
When you're at the big boy table. Gold is valuable. When you're a consumer it really isn't. Once consumers became the big boys and the big boys realized gold wasn't making them enough profits they said "Hey let's change this." So they did. Now we have the Free Market which opens the door for just about everyone to make money. A recipe for disaster when your consumers aren't making enough money to meet the needs of "supply and demand." That's another reason why we had a recession. The housing crisis was the explosion but the lack of money was the fuse.
-------------------- "I found it is the small everyday deeds of ordinary folk that keep the darkness at bay… small acts of kindness and love.” - Gandalf The Grey. "It is the mark of an educated mind to entertain a thought without accepting it." - Aristotle "I like to think of Jesus like with giant eagle's wings, and singin' lead vocals for Lynyrd Skynyrd with like an angel band and I'm in the front row and I'm HAMMERED DRUNK!" - Cal Naughton Jr. AKA The Magic Man. Abracadabra homes! "Each tear is a drop of poison released." - Anonymous "Could it be you're afraid of what your friends might say if they knew you believe in God above? They should realize before they criticize that God is the only way to Love."
Edited by LRG (12/18/16 06:29 PM)
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Falcon91Wolvrn03
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Re: The Gold Standard [Re: LRG]
#23938956 - 12/18/16 07:00 PM (7 years, 1 month ago) |
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Quote:
LRG said:
Quote:
Falcon91Wolvrn03 said: Then what's the point of a gold standard? If my dollar today is worth a gram of gold, but tomorrow it's only worth 1/2 gram, then my money tomorrow is only worth half as much. Makes no sense to me to tie the dollar to a certain amount of gold if you're not really tying the dollar to that certain amount of gold. 
Fact is your gram of gold is actually worth more than your dollar. I think like 30 times as much? IDK I'm not a master of coin
I used a random number to illustrate a point. Yes, 1/36 gram of gold is worth about a dollar, but the point above doesn't change.
Quote:
LRG said: The reason the Chinese could devalue their currency was because we switched from the Gold Standard. If we still ran on the Gold Standard they wouldn't of even entertained the thought.
Why not? If the Chinese want to sell their currency for less than it's worth, they can do that whether the dollar is pegged to gold or not.
Quote:
LRG said: If the US were still on the Gold Standard we would have had a stable, steady value. As you know, America is practically the world's economy and we have a lot of gold.
The link in the OP proves you wrong. The dollar was far more unstable under the gold standard.
Quote:
LRG said: The value of money can change. Gold is gold and will always be valuable. I would take a mountain of gold over 100 billion dollars every chance I had. Truth be told a mountain of gold would probably be worth 100 trillion dollars.
I'd also take something worth $100 trillion over $100 billion dollars. But I'd take $100,000 dollars over $50,000 in gold any day.
Quote:
LRG said: The Gold Standard was a good system but America became a consumer of goods and gold became a "good" they no longer needed. The goods we needed were smart phones, cars, technology and things of that sort. Not the sort of things that require a ton of gold to make. Another problem with it is that gold is gold, but money is money. You can't walk into a department store with a gold nugget and expect to buy a mink coat.
There is nothing stopping you from doing that; it's up to you and the department store. Most people prefer using the dollar, and there's nothing wrong with that.
Quote:
LRG said: When you're at the big boy table. Gold is valuable. When you're a consumer it really isn't. Once consumers became the big boys and the big boys realized gold wasn't making them enough profits they said "Hey let's change this." So they did.
No, gold is worth the same if you're a big boy or a consumer. Dude, you're just spitting out random nonsense.
Quote:
LRG said: Now we have the Free Market which opens the door for just about everyone to make money. A recipe for disaster when your consumers aren't making enough money to meet the needs of "supply and demand." That's another reason why we had a recession.
When did people not have an open door to make money? And why is an open door to make money a recipe for disaster? More random nonsense.
Quote:
LRG said: The housing crisis was the explosion but the lack of money was the fuse.
 No, the problem banks selling houses to people who couldn't afford to buy them.
-------------------- I am in a minority on the shroomery, as I frequently defend the opposing side when they have a point about something or when my side make believes something about them. I also attack my side if I think they're wrong. People here get very confused by that and think it means I prefer the other side.
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The Ecstatic
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I think the main argument is that its supposed to keep inflation in check, and a means to have a standardized global currency value system.
Either way, we're past it, we're sticking with this fiat system for some time. Just have to mold it to work out the best way for the most people.
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Falcon91Wolvrn03
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Quote:
The Ecstatic said: I think the main argument is that its supposed to keep inflation in check, and a means to have a standardized global currency value system.
Either way, we're past it, we're sticking with this fiat system for some time. Just have to mold it to work out the best way for the most people.
But my point is that's a really bad argument. Here's a look at US inflation over time:

We've been on the gold standard since the beginning of this graph, and we effectively left it in 1933 to fight the massive deflation we see in the graph above.
The dollar has been more stable since then, ESPECIALLY since we passed the Federal Reserve Reform Act of 1977.
-------------------- I am in a minority on the shroomery, as I frequently defend the opposing side when they have a point about something or when my side make believes something about them. I also attack my side if I think they're wrong. People here get very confused by that and think it means I prefer the other side.
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viktor
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Nah. Buy silver bullion. I have 1.3kgs of it stacked away for the collapse of the fiat money system.
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Falcon91Wolvrn03
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Re: The Gold Standard [Re: viktor]
#23939095 - 12/18/16 08:15 PM (7 years, 1 month ago) |
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What would cause the collapse of the fiat money system?
-------------------- I am in a minority on the shroomery, as I frequently defend the opposing side when they have a point about something or when my side make believes something about them. I also attack my side if I think they're wrong. People here get very confused by that and think it means I prefer the other side.
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viktor
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Widespread loss of confidence.
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The Ecstatic
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Quote:
Falcon91Wolvrn03 said:
Quote:
The Ecstatic said: I think the main argument is that its supposed to keep inflation in check, and a means to have a standardized global currency value system.
Either way, we're past it, we're sticking with this fiat system for some time. Just have to mold it to work out the best way for the most people.
But my point is that's a really bad argument. Here's a look at US inflation over time:

We've been on the gold standard since the beginning of this graph, and we effectively left it in 1933 to fight the massive deflation we see in the graph above.
The dollar has been more stable since then, ESPECIALLY since we passed the Federal Reserve Reform Act of 1977.
Oh for sure, I'm not saying its a good argument either. People just associate the time period of the creation of the Fed with when a lot of things changed at the global economic level.
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hostileuniverse
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Quote:
Falcon91Wolvrn03 said: What would cause the collapse of the fiat money system?
You could ask Greece, but you won't, because they're socialist and socialism is infallible
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qman
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Re: The Gold Standard [Re: psilynut]
#23939906 - 12/19/16 09:00 AM (7 years, 1 month ago) |
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Quote:
psilynut said: It would be better if you and I could form a small mining company , go out find super rich easy to mine ground on public land and make allot at money with minimal effort . That's not the reality of gold mining anymore though . Gold is getting harder and harder to come by and it's just going to keep getting harder to find . The best I can do is about 5 dollars per hr and this is in places that were historically rich .

A gold standard would put the future of our currency and the entire supply in the hands of a few large mining companies that are able to produce significant amounts . That seems like a terrible idea .
"would put the future of our currency and the entire supply in the hands of a few large mining companies"
What a bunch of nonsense.
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qman
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Re: The Gold Standard [Re: psilynut]
#23939908 - 12/19/16 09:03 AM (7 years, 1 month ago) |
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Quote:
psilynut said: What do you think would happen to the value of gold if we returned to the gold standard ? There isn't enough of it out of the ground to come close to backing up the amount money we need in circulation to keep our economy going . I ve read articles that theorize if we returned it would go way up , 400 to 500 percent . If you can find gold everyday easily you might like It. It Took me a day playing in a river to get the gold in that pic, it's a little over a gram worth about 40 bucks maybe . I would probably like a gold standard and a really high gold price . I know I can do allot better .
Yes, to have a 40% backing, the price of gold would need to be fixed at a much higher price than where it trades today.
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qman
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Takethatdarwin
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Re: The Gold Standard [Re: qman]
#23939926 - 12/19/16 09:14 AM (7 years, 1 month ago) |
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The largest single advantage is it would make money creators and distributors accountable for over creating monies and discriminatory distribution of these inflated currencies.
Look at the wealth distribution since America has removed the gold standard and how has that been for the average American?
Has the average Americans purchasing power increased significantly or decreased significantly since the removal of the gold standard?
Have the top one percent exponentionally increased their wealth since this has been removed?
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qman
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Quote:
Takethatdarwin said: The largest single advantage is it would make money creators and distributors accountable for over creating monies and discriminatory distribution of these inflated currencies.
Look at the wealth distribution since America has removed the gold standard and how has that been for the average American?
Has the average Americans purchasing power increased significantly or decreased significantly since the removal of the gold standard?
Have the top one percent exponentionally increased their wealth since this has been removed?
That's the truth, the current monetary system favors the very top, the wealth inequality we have today is based on that system.
You can't have an annual trillion dollar trade deficit when you're on a gold standard.
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ballsalsa
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finalexplosion Banned: 12/17/16 04:31 PM Expires: Never Reason: Unapproved Puppet
Takethatdarwin Registered On 12/19/16 07:43 AM
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Edited by ballsalsa (12/19/16 09:35 AM)
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The Ecstatic
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Re: The Gold Standard [Re: qman]
#23939957 - 12/19/16 09:38 AM (7 years, 1 month ago) |
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Quote:
qman said:
Quote:
psilynut said: It would be better if you and I could form a small mining company , go out find super rich easy to mine ground on public land and make allot at money with minimal effort . That's not the reality of gold mining anymore though . Gold is getting harder and harder to come by and it's just going to keep getting harder to find . The best I can do is about 5 dollars per hr and this is in places that were historically rich .

A gold standard would put the future of our currency and the entire supply in the hands of a few large mining companies that are able to produce significant amounts . That seems like a terrible idea .
"would put the future of our currency and the entire supply in the hands of a few large mining companies"
What a bunch of nonsense.
He's not entirely wrong. The value of precious metals can be manipulated just as easily as currency can.
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qman
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Quote:
The Ecstatic said:
Quote:
qman said:
Quote:
psilynut said: It would be better if you and I could form a small mining company , go out find super rich easy to mine ground on public land and make allot at money with minimal effort . That's not the reality of gold mining anymore though . Gold is getting harder and harder to come by and it's just going to keep getting harder to find . The best I can do is about 5 dollars per hr and this is in places that were historically rich .

A gold standard would put the future of our currency and the entire supply in the hands of a few large mining companies that are able to produce significant amounts . That seems like a terrible idea .
"would put the future of our currency and the entire supply in the hands of a few large mining companies"
What a bunch of nonsense.
He's not entirely wrong. The value of precious metals can be manipulated just as easily as currency can.
All the gold that has ever been mined is still in human hands, global mining production only adds 2% per year to that supply. That doesn't give mining companies any power at all.
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ballsalsa
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Re: The Gold Standard [Re: qman]
#23939971 - 12/19/16 09:47 AM (7 years, 1 month ago) |
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asteroids, bro. asteroids.
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Takethatdarwin
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Quote:
The Ecstatic said:
Quote:
qman said:
Quote:
psilynut said: It would be better if you and I could form a small mining company , go out find super rich easy to mine ground on public land and make allot at money with minimal effort . That's not the reality of gold mining anymore though . Gold is getting harder and harder to come by and it's just going to keep getting harder to find . The best I can do is about 5 dollars per hr and this is in places that were historically rich .

A gold standard would put the future of our currency and the entire supply in the hands of a few large mining companies that are able to produce significant amounts . That seems like a terrible idea .
"would put the future of our currency and the entire supply in the hands of a few large mining companies"
What a bunch of nonsense.
He's not entirely wrong. The value of precious metals can be manipulated just as easily as currency can.
Well can you explain why the average Americans wages and spending power sharply fell after the gold standard was removed. And why the top one percent now hoard more wealth than ever in American history since the removal of the gold standard?
-------------------- Making sure these bored retired hobbyists stay busy during the holidays. Looking through some of them it looks like they Waste so much time and effort on these mediums they should be compensated salaries. Everyone could use some holiday double time ;p
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Morel Guy
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I don't really understand market values. What raises or lowers, otherwise sets the price for stock and commodities.
Gold isn't all that hard to find. It's getting to it that cost money. Lot's of claims have gold that does not pay the mining costs.
You can buy a placer claim for three grand. It's small and hard to get to. Also can't make camp for more than 2 weeks on public land. Logistics are the difficulty and cash on hand solves problems.
-------------------- "in sterquiliniis invenitur in stercore invenitur" In filth it will be found in dung it will be found
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akira_akuma
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Quote:
hostileuniverse said:

you should be banned for this post.
Quote:
What a bunch of nonsense.
who's gonna head the watchdogs on the producers of gold?
Quote:
qman said: That's the truth, the current monetary system favors the very top, the wealth inequality we have today is based on that system.
and thus it ever was, sadly.
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psilynut
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Re: The Gold Standard [Re: qman]
#23940866 - 12/19/16 05:01 PM (7 years, 1 month ago) |
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Quote:
qman said :
All the gold that has ever been mined is still in human hands, global mining production only adds 2% per year to that supply. That doesn't give mining companies any power at all.
New gold discoveries can cause Gold values and currency values to drop . Isn't that why we created the federal reserve? i guess I worded that wrong , I didn't mean power over us I meant our economic stability could revolve around their success or failure .
If we backed our currency with gold the price per ounce would have to be insanely high . I don't know exactly how high , but I read an article that guessed around 5000 per ounce .What do you think 5000 a Troy ounce would do to production? I imagian it would go way the fuck up . My personal production sure as fuck would . I would break every California mining regulation for that price . Morel guy is right allot of places have gold that are currently unprofitable to mine for various reasons . There is allot of gold on the ocean floor , wether or not it ever gets mined depends on companies figureing out how to make it profitable .
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akira_akuma
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Re: The Gold Standard [Re: psilynut]
#23940897 - 12/19/16 05:12 PM (7 years, 1 month ago) |
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de-centralize man!
hey, Fal...DE-CENTRALIZE BRO!
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qman
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Re: The Gold Standard [Re: psilynut]
#23940929 - 12/19/16 05:25 PM (7 years, 1 month ago) |
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Quote:
psilynut said:
Quote:
qman said :
All the gold that has ever been mined is still in human hands, global mining production only adds 2% per year to that supply. That doesn't give mining companies any power at all.
New gold discoveries can cause Gold values and currency values to drop . Isn't that why we created the federal reserve? i guess I worded that wrong , I didn't mean power over us I meant our economic stability could revolve around their success or failure .
If we backed our currency with gold the price per ounce would have to be insanely high . I don't know exactly how high , but I read an article that guessed around 5000 per ounce .What do you think 5000 a Troy ounce would do to production? I imagian it would go way the fuck up . My personal production sure as fuck would . I would break every California mining regulation for that price . Morel guy is right allot of places have gold that are currently unprofitable to mine for various reasons . There is allot of gold on the ocean floor , wether or not it ever gets mined depends on companies figureing out how to make it profitable .
"What do you think 5000 a Troy ounce would do to production?"
The annual production is 2,500 tons, could it go higher at that price? Yes, how much is anyone's guess, I would say 20% higher. It's very tough to get all the permits needed to get a deposit into production, it takes many years.
I know when gold moved from $20 to $35oz, production around the world did jumped higher and it caused some (inflation) concerns.
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Morel Guy
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Re: The Gold Standard [Re: qman] 1
#23941008 - 12/19/16 05:52 PM (7 years, 1 month ago) |
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It is cheap and easy to get placer mining papers and permits. Super easy and cheap. Even lode mines are not that costly or difficult. It is the explosive permits if you use those. Explosives take a longer harder more expensive route. But anyone can own a claim with a bit of stream or river that has nuggets.
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psilynut
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Re: The Gold Standard [Re: qman]
#23941278 - 12/19/16 06:52 PM (7 years, 1 month ago) |
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Quote:
The annual production is 2,500 tons, could it go higher at that price? Yes, how much is anyone's guess, I would say 20% higher. It's very tough to get all the permits needed to get a deposit into production, it takes many years.
You mean 200 tons. 2500 is the world right ? Russia produces more than us . China produces more than both of us put together . Even Australia kicks our ass we barley out produce Canada . No else is going to want to be on the gold standard with us . Maybe we could ask them nicely , but I doubt it . Are you assuming the rest of the world will join us ?
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akira_akuma
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Re: The Gold Standard [Re: psilynut]
#23941362 - 12/19/16 07:14 PM (7 years, 1 month ago) |
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gold standard would be nice for Canada...then we'd have to up production, so the US doesn't come for our shit. we might even have to make a bigger army.
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The Ecstatic
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Quote:
Takethatdarwin said:
Quote:
The Ecstatic said:
Quote:
qman said:
Quote:
psilynut said: It would be better if you and I could form a small mining company , go out find super rich easy to mine ground on public land and make allot at money with minimal effort . That's not the reality of gold mining anymore though . Gold is getting harder and harder to come by and it's just going to keep getting harder to find . The best I can do is about 5 dollars per hr and this is in places that were historically rich .

A gold standard would put the future of our currency and the entire supply in the hands of a few large mining companies that are able to produce significant amounts . That seems like a terrible idea .
"would put the future of our currency and the entire supply in the hands of a few large mining companies"
What a bunch of nonsense.
He's not entirely wrong. The value of precious metals can be manipulated just as easily as currency can.
Well can you explain why the average Americans wages and spending power sharply fell after the gold standard was removed. And why the top one percent now hoard more wealth than ever in American history since the removal of the gold standard?
I sure can: its because there are a shutload more factors at play than the ones you think support your argument.
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Takethatdarwin
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Re: The Gold Standard [Re: ballsalsa]
#23942621 - 12/20/16 07:57 AM (7 years, 1 month ago) |
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Quote:
ballsalsa said:

finalexplosion Banned: 12/17/16 04:31 PM Expires: Never Reason: Unapproved Puppet
Takethatdarwin Registered On 12/19/16 07:43 AM
Lol nice try we can get take that etymology from twitter to anylyze the language patterns and clearly we are not the same person
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The Ecstatic
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Yeah based on 32 posts I think we can all surmise you're a unique snowflake.
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Takethatdarwin
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It's simple
Did the wealthiest top percent exponentially rake in more profits than ever in American history and are now hoarding more wealth fr the public than ever
Did the average Americans wages grow after removal of the gold standard?
Did the average American significantly lose purchasing power after the removal of the gold standard.
Since all those things did indeed occur then it's clear the gold standard was keeping some powerful people in check from hoarding over half the nations wealth
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Edited by Takethatdarwin (12/20/16 09:42 AM)
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The Ecstatic
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American buying power was been decreasing since we went to war with the Nazis.
Therefore, its time for a Fourth Reich.
If you cant handle me at my corrolation, you dont deserve me at my causation.
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Takethatdarwin
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It's clear that the wealth hoarding at its current historic levels were nowhere near possible during a gold standard era
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akira_akuma
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population has grown from 218.04 million to 323.64 million since 1976 in the US.
this leads me to believe that most people wouldn't be able afford the gold standard, unless they were privy to market motivations outside of the country, and/or there was a progressive tax.
but we'll see about it all, i mean, who gives a fuck.
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Takethatdarwin
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Quote:
akira_akuma said: population has grown from 218.04 million to 323.64 million since 1976 in the US.
this leads me to believe that most people wouldn't be able afford the gold standard, unless they were privy to market motivations outside of the country, and/or there was a progressive tax.
but we'll see about it all, i mean, who gives a fuck.
Who cares oh maybe 200 plus millions American with stagnant wages and diminishing purchasing power!?!? We all can't be fortunate enough to be retired hobbyist on forums all day... jeeze
-------------------- Making sure these bored retired hobbyists stay busy during the holidays. Looking through some of them it looks like they Waste so much time and effort on these mediums they should be compensated salaries. Everyone could use some holiday double time ;p
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akira_akuma
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i'm for a gold standard but only for one reason: to see if it'll temporarily work for people- but i hold no illusions. it won't work forever, and it never did. 
and then again, there are people whom not only propose a return to the gold standard, and that it's a good thing to keep as the bedrock to a financial system ie forever eg never changed, but they also presume a bunch of other gobbeltygook that i seriously don't think they can help but feel the need to rationalize over, for themselves to feel better about their shitty lives.
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Takethatdarwin
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You are completely missing the point at hand.
The gold standard held money creators accountable as they couldn't just create gold out of thin air like the Feseral reserve does now. A backed currrnfy ensures that the wealthy cannot hoard it all. To maintain that wealth they needed to introduce back into the economy.
We don't need a "gold" standard. Bht it's clear with the current hoarding of wealth. Which if im correct hoarding is psychological disorder, hoarding half the world cats and garbage and or money are equivalents on the psychological realm.
Having a standard backed currency ensures that these hoarders cannot hoard to the where they are and it ensures the lower classes get a more fair share of a nations wealth
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akira_akuma
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no, you are completely and utterly missing the point.
Quote:
The gold standard held money creators accountable
temporarily.
Quote:
as they couldn't just create gold out of thin air like the Feseral reserve does now. A backed currrnfy ensures that the wealthy cannot hoard it all. To maintain that wealth they needed to introduce back into the economy.
and what happens when gold goes up?
i know the GS helps make it more equitable for the little guy to make money...but only temporarily. if inflation increases to a certain point, then people will really wish they paid more attention to Venezuela. people will rely on those with monetary knowledge to keep inflation low, hence, eventually more rich people will hoard yet again, and the cycle continues.
Quote:
We don't need a "gold" standard. Bht it's clear with the current hoarding of wealth. Which if im correct hoarding is psychological disorder, hoarding half the world cats and garbage and or money are equivalents on the psychological realm.
i don't even know how to respond to this right now, i'm tired.
Quote:
Having a standard backed currency ensures that these hoarders cannot hoard to the where they are and it ensures the lower classes get a more fair share of a nations wealth
yes, i know, it's basically wealth distribution- you know, that thing so many people here say is so commie and evil...and now with a gold standard it's not...nevertheless, it's a temporary band-aid solution.
cutting all institutions funded by taxpayers, reforming the tax code so that the rich have to pay their fair share of a progressive tax until the economy becomes more equitable for small businesses, which by then, you can switch a flat tax -- and all this can be done in a fiat system for cheaper by the by....only if people are willing to admit that currency is exactly that...what is current.
but that won't happen unless people change the way they do government, instead of just focusing on mopping up the economy with suds and hoping it stays clean forever now, just cause.
Edited by akira_akuma (12/20/16 02:42 PM)
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Takethatdarwin
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My last post said forget gold itself!
Clearly the people hoarding half of Americas wealth in the fewest amount of hands as ever in history do tell us something is greatly imbalanced
Insert any physical object here, can be used asa backing of currencies. They keep the wealthy from over hoarding and keep the wealth distribution way higher
-------------------- Making sure these bored retired hobbyists stay busy during the holidays. Looking through some of them it looks like they Waste so much time and effort on these mediums they should be compensated salaries. Everyone could use some holiday double time ;p
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akira_akuma
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yeah, you just made a great argument for a fiat system... 
like i said temporary gold standard to a: make people fweel better and b: to start on the means to producing more business that can help topple the lacking governmental conditions and demands for your equity.
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The Ecstatic
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Quote:
Takethatdarwin said: It's clear that the wealth hoarding at its current historic levels were nowhere near possible during a gold standard era
....for reasons beyond the existence of the gold standard.
Like global commerce. We're lucky the dollar hasnt plummeted further than it has.
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Morel Guy
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How about a platinum standard, diamond standard or wheat standard? How about a cannabis standard or stinkiest cooter standard.
Republicans and their desire to have their glory days back. It's peaking for them with Trump. Sadly it was probably bush jr. Trump is going to dissapoint everyone.
-------------------- "in sterquiliniis invenitur in stercore invenitur" In filth it will be found in dung it will be found
Edited by Morel Guy (12/20/16 03:10 PM)
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The Ecstatic
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Re: The Gold Standard [Re: Morel Guy] 1
#23943748 - 12/20/16 03:14 PM (7 years, 1 month ago) |
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Lets just burn half the dollars in the world and then our currency will double its value!
I'm really smart on these matters, I read half of an Ayn Rand book once.
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Falcon91Wolvrn03
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Quote:
Takethatdarwin said: Look at the wealth distribution since America has removed the gold standard and how has that been for the average American?
Income inequality went down after FDR took the US off the gold standard in 1933 and it kept going down until 1980:

Quote:
Takethatdarwin said: Has the average Americans purchasing power increased significantly or decreased significantly since the removal of the gold standard?
Purchasing power has gone down as a result of inflation, but wages have gone up more than purchasing power has gone down. In fact, real wages for the bottom 90% have been going up until 1980:

Quote:
Takethatdarwin said: Have the top one percent exponentionally increased their wealth since this has been removed?
Everyone's wealth went up after the gold standard was removed, but the rich's wealth started going up exponentially after 1980 as shown above.
Quote:
Takethatdarwin said: It's simple
Did the wealthiest top percent exponentially rake in more profits than ever in American history and are now hoarding more wealth fr the public than ever? NO
Did the average Americans wages grow after removal of the gold standard? YES
Did the average American significantly lose purchasing power after the removal of the gold standard. See above
it's clear the gold standard was keeping some powerful people in check from hoarding over half the nations wealth
No, the rich hey had most of the wealth until FDR, and they didn't get it back until 1980, as evidenced by the charts above.
-------------------- I am in a minority on the shroomery, as I frequently defend the opposing side when they have a point about something or when my side make believes something about them. I also attack my side if I think they're wrong. People here get very confused by that and think it means I prefer the other side.
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Takethatdarwin
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And my claim was the removal of the gold standard created the necessary conditions which later lead to the wealth hoarding and record amounts of wealth that if money was backed and limited then they would be forced to spend the wealth in order to maintain it
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Falcon91Wolvrn03
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What "conditions"?
The evidence proves your claim absolute nonsense.
The empirical evidence also makes it extraordinarily clear that the 'conditions for wealth hoarding' came about in 1980.
-------------------- I am in a minority on the shroomery, as I frequently defend the opposing side when they have a point about something or when my side make believes something about them. I also attack my side if I think they're wrong. People here get very confused by that and think it means I prefer the other side.
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hostileuniverse
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Quote:
Falcon91Wolvrn03 said: What "conditions"?
The evidence proves your claim absolute nonsense.
The empirical evidence also makes it extraordinarily clear that the 'conditions for wealth hoarding' came about in 1980.
With the influx of a massive illegal workforce,
Tomato, tomahto
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ballsalsa
Universally Loathed and Reviled



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Re: The Gold Standard [Re: ballsalsa] 4
#23947849 - 12/22/16 12:54 AM (7 years, 1 month ago) |
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Quote:
ballsalsa said:

finalexplosion Banned: 12/17/16 04:31 PM Expires: Never Reason: Unapproved Puppet
Takethatdarwin Registered On 12/19/16 07:43 AM
Quote:
Takethatdarwin Banned: 12/21/16 10:37 PM Expires: 12/22/16 10:37 PM Reason: Unapproved Puppet
called it.
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hostileuniverse
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Re: The Gold Standard [Re: ballsalsa]
#23947861 - 12/22/16 01:11 AM (7 years, 1 month ago) |
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"Unapproved Puppet"?
Does that mean that the shroomery allows "Approved Puppets"?
I have a feeling I know who they are, right Enlil?
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ballsalsa
Universally Loathed and Reviled



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Sure, like Treana.
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Falcon91Wolvrn03
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Re: The Gold Standard [Re: ballsalsa] 1
#23949080 - 12/22/16 12:46 PM (7 years, 1 month ago) |
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Looks like no one is disputing the fact that wealth inequality started going into high gear in 1980 (the evidence is clear, I don't think it CAN be disputed).
So what happened in 1980 that led to so much wealth inequality? Trickle down economics: Give the rich big tax breaks, and pay for it with cuts to the working class.
This is EXACTLY what Trump is proposing. I had some hope that Trump might be ok, but if he does another round of trickle down, we'll see inequality like never before.
-------------------- I am in a minority on the shroomery, as I frequently defend the opposing side when they have a point about something or when my side make believes something about them. I also attack my side if I think they're wrong. People here get very confused by that and think it means I prefer the other side.
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hostileuniverse
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Quote:
Falcon91Wolvrn03 said: Looks like no one is disputing the fact that wealth inequality started going into high gear in 1980 (the evidence is clear, I don't think it CAN be disputed).
So what happened in 1980 that led to so much wealth inequality? Trickle down economics: Give the rich big tax breaks, and pay for it with cuts to the working class.
This is EXACTLY what Trump is proposing. I had some hope that Trump might be ok, but if he does another round of trickle down, we'll see inequality like never before.
You forgot importing millions of immigrants for cheap labor
But you didn't forget, you just IGNORE things that don't fit your agenda like a chicken shit
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qman
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Quote:
Falcon91Wolvrn03 said: Looks like no one is disputing the fact that wealth inequality started going into high gear in 1980 (the evidence is clear, I don't think it CAN be disputed).
So what happened in 1980 that led to so much wealth inequality? Trickle down economics: Give the rich big tax breaks, and pay for it with cuts to the working class.
This is EXACTLY what Trump is proposing. I had some hope that Trump might be ok, but if he does another round of trickle down, we'll see inequality like never before.
Yeah, because illegals flooding into the US and globalization didn't also start at the same time. 
Corporations weren't making good profit margins in the 1960-70's when they were giving people like my father annual 9-11% raises for doing the same job. 
Stock valuations had PE's down to the 5-6 range with little hope of higher profits, that changed and valuations went into the (PE) 15 range and then eventually to over (PE) 25.
"we will see inequality like never before"
That's true because there will be no real stimulus, there will be no economic tariffs, there will be no fixing the currency manipulations, there will be no deporting of cheap labor and we will see just tax breaks for corporations which will NOT reinvest it back into the economy.
You don't take trillions of wealth from the people in power by going to the voting booth, that's fantasy land.
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Falcon91Wolvrn03
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Re: The Gold Standard [Re: qman] 1
#23949421 - 12/22/16 03:09 PM (7 years, 1 month ago) |
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Quote:
qman said:
Quote:
Falcon91Wolvrn03 said: So what happened in 1980 that led to so much wealth inequality? Trickle down economics: Give the rich big tax breaks, and pay for it with cuts to the working class.
Yeah, because illegals flooding into the US and globalization didn't also start at the same time. 
You're right for a change. 
Immigrants flooding into the US DIDN'T start in 1980:

Similarly, globalization didn't start in 1980 either:

So you're right. But I don't get the facepalm?
Quote:
qman said: Corporations weren't making good profit margins in the 1960-70's when they were giving people like my father annual 9-11% raises for doing the same job. 
They weren't making the same profit margins that they are today - a time you insist is bad for the economy. I wonder why they made less profit in good times? Could it be that unions forced them to share profits with the workers that earned it? 
Quote:
qman said:
Quote:
Falcon91Wolvrn03 said: if Trump does another round of trickle down, we'll see inequality like never before.
That's true because there will be no real stimulus, there will be no economic tariffs, there will be no fixing the currency manipulations, there will be no deporting of cheap labor and we will see just tax breaks for corporations which will NOT reinvest it back into the economy.
But all of those things are already true. I'm talking about what will change under Trump, and I'm especially talking about the most significant factor that will lead to income inequality It's pretty obvious if you give more to the rich, you leave less for the 99%. And if it isn't obvious, please see the data here.
Quote:
qman said: You don't take trillions of wealth from the people in power by going to the voting booth, that's fantasy land.
Not unless you vote for a Bernie Sanders type of candidate.
-------------------- I am in a minority on the shroomery, as I frequently defend the opposing side when they have a point about something or when my side make believes something about them. I also attack my side if I think they're wrong. People here get very confused by that and think it means I prefer the other side.
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Tipote
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i have nothing useful to add here, i'm just commenting to follow the thread and learn. I realised when we did the "where I stand on the issues" thread, that I didn't really know much about the gold standard.
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Enlil
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Yes, people can have approved puppets, mostly for grow logs, etc.
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ballsalsa
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it should also be noted that U.S. population growth as a percentage was relatively low during the 1980's.

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