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OfflineFalcon91Wolvrn03
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The Gold Standard * 1
    #23937148 - 12/18/16 03:00 AM (7 years, 1 month ago)

Another thread (starting here) discussed the gold standard as being a good idea.  Rather than taking that thread off topic, I'd like to start a new thread about it here.

First of all, forty leading economists from the top universities were asked if the gold standard would be better for the average American.  Not one felt it would.

Based on the global warming discussions here, it's clear that some people here don't trust people who study something for a living, so I'd like someone to name at least one advantage of going back to the gold standard for discussion and analysis.

Can anyone provide a reason why the gold standard would be better?


Edit:  I actually meant to link to this article above where I said leading economists don't believe in the gold standard.


Edited by Falcon91Wolvrn03 (12/18/16 04:19 PM)


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Offlinehostileuniverse
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Re: The Gold Standard [Re: Falcon91Wolvrn03]
    #23937281 - 12/18/16 06:44 AM (7 years, 1 month ago)

:carlinorgasm:


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Offlinepsilynut
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Re: The Gold Standard [Re: Falcon91Wolvrn03] * 2
    #23937770 - 12/18/16 11:29 AM (7 years, 1 month ago)

It would be better if you and I could form a small mining company , go out find super rich easy to mine ground on public land and make allot at money with minimal effort . That's not the reality of gold mining anymore though . Gold is getting harder and harder to come by and it's just going to keep getting harder to find . The best I can do is about 5 dollars per hr  and this is in places that were historically rich .



A gold standard would put the future of our currency and the entire supply in the hands of a few large mining companies that are able to produce significant amounts .  That seems like a terrible idea .


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InvisibleballsalsaMDiscord
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Re: The Gold Standard [Re: Falcon91Wolvrn03]
    #23937811 - 12/18/16 11:50 AM (7 years, 1 month ago)

an interesting article.

a couple of things that i noted:

Quote:

The gold standard should guarantee price stability in the long run, but you know what they say about the long run -- we're all dead.




I'm not sure that this mentality should guide monetary policy.  There are those who come after us to think of after all.

Quote:

Yes, the Fed has expanded its balance sheet to unprecedented levels, but if it hadn't done that prices would probably be falling a bit now. But how will the Fed eventually mop up all this liquidity it's created -- hasn't it lit the fuse of an inflation time-bomb? No. The Fed can increase the interest it pays on reserves, do reverse repos, or use term deposit facilities to prevent banks from lending out too much money, if it comes to that.




These three solutions proposed are essentially the same thing, and they are all incentives.  They don't prevent anything at all.


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InvisibleballsalsaMDiscord
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Re: The Gold Standard [Re: psilynut]
    #23937813 - 12/18/16 11:51 AM (7 years, 1 month ago)

asteroids, bro.  asteroids.


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Offlinepsilynut
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Re: The Gold Standard [Re: ballsalsa]
    #23937994 - 12/18/16 01:04 PM (7 years, 1 month ago)

What do you think would happen to the value of gold if we returned to the gold standard ? There isn't enough of it out of the ground to come close to backing up the amount money we need in circulation to keep our economy going .  I ve read articles that theorize if we returned  it would go way up , 400 to 500 percent .
  If you can find gold everyday easily you might like It. 
    It  Took me a day playing in a river  to get the gold in that pic, it's a little over a gram worth about 40 bucks maybe . I would probably like a gold standard and a really high gold price . I know I can do allot better .


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InvisibleballsalsaMDiscord
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Re: The Gold Standard [Re: psilynut]
    #23938191 - 12/18/16 02:11 PM (7 years, 1 month ago)

Quote:

psilynut said:
What do you think would happen to the value of gold if we returned to the gold standard ?




let's say for the sake of argument that it would increase.

Quote:

There isn't enough of it out of the ground to come close to backing up the amount money we need in circulation to keep our economy going . 




why not?  if the value of gold increases, then a smaller weight of gold could be used to represent the value of a dollar.  Just don't tie the value of a dollar to an arbitrary weight of gold. Problem solved.


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OfflineFalcon91Wolvrn03
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Re: The Gold Standard [Re: ballsalsa] * 1
    #23938640 - 12/18/16 04:43 PM (7 years, 1 month ago)

Quote:

ballsalsa said:
a couple of things that i noted:

Quote:

The gold standard should guarantee price stability in the long run, but you know what they say about the long run -- we're all dead.




I'm not sure that this mentality should guide monetary policy.  There are those who come after us to think of after all.



I completely agree with you that this would be the wrong mentality if gold did eventually lead to price stability.  However, I think the author doesn't really believe it will - I think he was just being generous to his readers who might think that way.  The article uses empirical evidence to clearly show that gold has never lead to price stability, nor does it explain how possibly could.

Quote:

ballsalsa said:
Quote:

Yes, the Fed has expanded its balance sheet to unprecedented levels, but if it hadn't done that prices would probably be falling a bit now. But how will the Fed eventually mop up all this liquidity it's created -- hasn't it lit the fuse of an inflation time-bomb? No. The Fed can increase the interest it pays on reserves, do reverse repos, or use term deposit facilities to prevent banks from lending out too much money, if it comes to that.




These three solutions proposed are essentially the same thing, and they are all incentives.  They don't prevent anything at all.



I don't follow what you're saying here.  Are you just stating that incentivizing lower interest doesn't guarantee lower interest?  Of course I agree, but it also makes lower interest far more likely.


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OfflineFalcon91Wolvrn03
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Re: The Gold Standard [Re: ballsalsa] * 1
    #23938650 - 12/18/16 04:47 PM (7 years, 1 month ago)

Quote:

ballsalsa said:
Quote:

psilynut said:
There isn't enough of it out of the ground to come close to backing up the amount money we need in circulation to keep our economy going .



why not?  if the value of gold increases, then a smaller weight of gold could be used to represent the value of a dollar.  Just don't tie the value of a dollar to an arbitrary weight of gold. Problem solved.



Then what's the point of a gold standard?  If my dollar today is worth a gram of gold, but tomorrow it's only worth 1/2 gram, then my money tomorrow is only worth half as much.  Makes no sense to me to tie the dollar to a certain amount of gold if you're not really tying the dollar to that certain amount of gold.  :shrug:


--------------------
I am in a minority on the shroomery, as I frequently defend the opposing side when they have a point about something or when my side make believes something about them.  I also attack my side if I think they're wrong.  People here get very confused by that and think it means I prefer the other side.


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InvisibleballsalsaMDiscord
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Re: The Gold Standard [Re: Falcon91Wolvrn03] * 1
    #23938669 - 12/18/16 04:57 PM (7 years, 1 month ago)

you were following just fine.  I was just pointing out the difference between carrots and sticks.  I was hoping to provoke further discussion because i am far from an expert in this field, and i am genuinely interested in what some of the regulars around here have to say on the subject.


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InvisibleballsalsaMDiscord
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Re: The Gold Standard [Re: Falcon91Wolvrn03] * 1
    #23938674 - 12/18/16 05:00 PM (7 years, 1 month ago)

that is a good point.
i suppose the only real advantage would be the ability to redeem your notes for specie at whatever the weight.  I'm not sure what the practical value of that really is, but it sounds attractive i guess. :shrug:


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OfflineLRG
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Re: The Gold Standard [Re: Falcon91Wolvrn03]
    #23938867 - 12/18/16 06:25 PM (7 years, 1 month ago)

Quote:

Falcon91Wolvrn03 said:
Quote:

ballsalsa said:
Quote:

psilynut said:
There isn't enough of it out of the ground to come close to backing up the amount money we need in circulation to keep our economy going .



why not?  if the value of gold increases, then a smaller weight of gold could be used to represent the value of a dollar.  Just don't tie the value of a dollar to an arbitrary weight of gold. Problem solved.



Then what's the point of a gold standard?  If my dollar today is worth a gram of gold, but tomorrow it's only worth 1/2 gram, then my money tomorrow is only worth half as much.  Makes no sense to me to tie the dollar to a certain amount of gold if you're not really tying the dollar to that certain amount of gold.  :shrug:





Fact is your gram of gold is actually worth more than your dollar. I think like 30 times as much? IDK I'm not a master of coin, but gold is gold. The reason the Chinese could devalue their currency was because we switched from the Gold Standard. If we still ran on the Gold Standard they wouldn't of even entertained the thought. Trump is exaggerating when he says it is a giant slap in America's face because it is more like a giant black dildo right up our ass.

If the US were still on the Gold Standard we would have had a stable, steady value. As you know, America is practically the world's economy and we have a lot of gold.

The value of money can change. Gold is gold and will always be valuable. I would take a mountain of gold over 100 billion dollars every chance I had. Truth be told a mountain of gold would probably be worth 100 trillion dollars.

The Gold Standard was a good system but America became a consumer of goods and gold became a "good" they no longer needed. The goods we needed were smart phones, cars, technology and things of that sort. Not the sort of things that require a ton of gold to make. Another problem with it is that gold is gold, but money is money. You can't walk into a department store with a gold nugget and expect to buy a mink coat.

When you're at the big boy table. Gold is valuable. When you're a consumer it really isn't. Once consumers became the big boys and the big boys realized gold wasn't making them enough profits they said "Hey let's change this." So they did. Now we have the Free Market which opens the door for just about everyone to make money. A recipe for disaster when your consumers aren't making enough money to meet the needs of "supply and demand." That's another reason why we had a recession. The housing crisis was the explosion but the lack of money was the fuse.


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"I found it is the small everyday deeds of ordinary folk that keep the darkness at bay… small acts of kindness and love.” - Gandalf The Grey.

"It is the mark of an educated mind to entertain a thought without accepting it." - Aristotle

"I like to think of Jesus like with giant eagle's wings, and singin' lead vocals for Lynyrd Skynyrd with like an angel band and I'm in the front row and I'm HAMMERED DRUNK!" - Cal Naughton Jr. AKA The Magic Man. Abracadabra homes!

"Each tear is a drop of poison released." - Anonymous

"Could it be you're afraid of what your friends might say if they knew you believe in God above? They should realize before they criticize that God is the only way to Love."


Edited by LRG (12/18/16 06:29 PM)


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OfflineFalcon91Wolvrn03
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Re: The Gold Standard [Re: LRG]
    #23938956 - 12/18/16 07:00 PM (7 years, 1 month ago)

Quote:

LRG said:
Quote:

Falcon91Wolvrn03 said:
Then what's the point of a gold standard?  If my dollar today is worth a gram of gold, but tomorrow it's only worth 1/2 gram, then my money tomorrow is only worth half as much.  Makes no sense to me to tie the dollar to a certain amount of gold if you're not really tying the dollar to that certain amount of gold.  :shrug:



Fact is your gram of gold is actually worth more than your dollar. I think like 30 times as much? IDK I'm not a master of coin



I used a random number to illustrate a point.  Yes, 1/36 gram of gold is worth about a dollar, but the point above doesn't change.

Quote:

LRG said:
The reason the Chinese could devalue their currency was because we switched from the Gold Standard. If we still ran on the Gold Standard they wouldn't of even entertained the thought.



Why not?  If the Chinese want to sell their currency for less than it's worth, they can do that whether the dollar is pegged to gold or not.

Quote:

LRG said:
If the US were still on the Gold Standard we would have had a stable, steady value. As you know, America is practically the world's economy and we have a lot of gold.



The link in the OP proves you wrong.  The dollar was far more unstable under the gold standard.

Quote:

LRG said:
The value of money can change. Gold is gold and will always be valuable. I would take a mountain of gold over 100 billion dollars every chance I had. Truth be told a mountain of gold would probably be worth 100 trillion dollars.



I'd also take something worth $100 trillion over $100 billion dollars.  But I'd take $100,000 dollars over $50,000 in gold any day.

Quote:

LRG said:
The Gold Standard was a good system but America became a consumer of goods and gold became a "good" they no longer needed. The goods we needed were smart phones, cars, technology and things of that sort. Not the sort of things that require a ton of gold to make. Another problem with it is that gold is gold, but money is money. You can't walk into a department store with a gold nugget and expect to buy a mink coat.



There is nothing stopping you from doing that; it's up to you and the department store.  Most people prefer using the dollar, and there's nothing wrong with that.

Quote:

LRG said:
When you're at the big boy table. Gold is valuable. When you're a consumer it really isn't.  Once consumers became the big boys and the big boys realized gold wasn't making them enough profits they said "Hey let's change this." So they did.



No, gold is worth the same if you're a big boy or a consumer.  Dude, you're just spitting out random nonsense.

Quote:

LRG said:
Now we have the Free Market which opens the door for just about everyone to make money. A recipe for disaster when your consumers aren't making enough money to meet the needs of "supply and demand." That's another reason why we had a recession.



When did people not have an open door to make money?  And why is an open door to make money a recipe for disaster?  More random nonsense.

Quote:

LRG said:
The housing crisis was the explosion but the lack of money was the fuse.



:lolwut:
No, the problem banks selling houses to people who couldn't afford to buy them.


--------------------
I am in a minority on the shroomery, as I frequently defend the opposing side when they have a point about something or when my side make believes something about them.  I also attack my side if I think they're wrong.  People here get very confused by that and think it means I prefer the other side.


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OfflineThe Ecstatic
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Re: The Gold Standard [Re: Falcon91Wolvrn03]
    #23939044 - 12/18/16 07:47 PM (7 years, 1 month ago)

I think the main argument is that its supposed to keep inflation in check, and a means to have a standardized global currency value system.

Either way, we're past it, we're sticking with this fiat system for some time. Just have to mold it to work out the best way for the most people.


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OfflineFalcon91Wolvrn03
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Re: The Gold Standard [Re: The Ecstatic] * 1
    #23939069 - 12/18/16 08:01 PM (7 years, 1 month ago)

Quote:

The Ecstatic said:
I think the main argument is that its supposed to keep inflation in check, and a means to have a standardized global currency value system.

Either way, we're past it, we're sticking with this fiat system for some time. Just have to mold it to work out the best way for the most people.



But my point is that's a really bad argument.  Here's a look at US inflation over time:



We've been on the gold standard since the beginning of this graph, and we effectively left it in 1933 to fight the massive deflation we see in the graph above.

The dollar has been more stable since then, ESPECIALLY since we passed the Federal Reserve Reform Act of 1977.


--------------------
I am in a minority on the shroomery, as I frequently defend the opposing side when they have a point about something or when my side make believes something about them.  I also attack my side if I think they're wrong.  People here get very confused by that and think it means I prefer the other side.


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Offlineviktor
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Re: The Gold Standard [Re: The Ecstatic]
    #23939082 - 12/18/16 08:09 PM (7 years, 1 month ago)

Nah. Buy silver bullion. I have 1.3kgs of it stacked away for the collapse of the fiat money system.


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OfflineFalcon91Wolvrn03
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Re: The Gold Standard [Re: viktor]
    #23939095 - 12/18/16 08:15 PM (7 years, 1 month ago)

What would cause the collapse of the fiat money system?


--------------------
I am in a minority on the shroomery, as I frequently defend the opposing side when they have a point about something or when my side make believes something about them.  I also attack my side if I think they're wrong.  People here get very confused by that and think it means I prefer the other side.


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Offlineviktor
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Re: The Gold Standard [Re: Falcon91Wolvrn03]
    #23939145 - 12/18/16 08:38 PM (7 years, 1 month ago)

Widespread loss of confidence.


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OfflineThe Ecstatic
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Re: The Gold Standard [Re: Falcon91Wolvrn03] * 1
    #23939234 - 12/18/16 09:14 PM (7 years, 1 month ago)

Quote:

Falcon91Wolvrn03 said:
Quote:

The Ecstatic said:
I think the main argument is that its supposed to keep inflation in check, and a means to have a standardized global currency value system.

Either way, we're past it, we're sticking with this fiat system for some time. Just have to mold it to work out the best way for the most people.



But my point is that's a really bad argument.  Here's a look at US inflation over time:



We've been on the gold standard since the beginning of this graph, and we effectively left it in 1933 to fight the massive deflation we see in the graph above.

The dollar has been more stable since then, ESPECIALLY since we passed the Federal Reserve Reform Act of 1977.




Oh for sure, I'm not saying its a good argument either. People just associate the time period of the creation of the Fed with when a lot of things changed at the global economic level.


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Offlinehostileuniverse
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Re: The Gold Standard [Re: Falcon91Wolvrn03]
    #23939324 - 12/18/16 09:52 PM (7 years, 1 month ago)

Quote:

Falcon91Wolvrn03 said:
What would cause the collapse of the fiat money system?




You could ask Greece, but you won't, because they're socialist and socialism is infallible


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