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PinPornProducer
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Cloning from a clone culture
#23936961 - 12/17/16 11:47 PM (7 years, 1 month ago) |
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I hear bad things about cloning from a clone but what's the downfall other than a shortened life span of the culture? If you have the original culture slanted, grow it out, clone from said tub and then slant that culture would you really see any negative effects if you always start the grow from a slant?
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r.lutece
gave Columbia her wings.


Registered: 09/06/15
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From what I've been told, it takes a handful of successively cloned grows to see a noticeable impact on the quality of the mycelium. My guess would be that a clone taken from a prior clone that wasn't isolated would show a smaller variety of strains than the previous clone, potentially reducing the number of desirable traits in the second generation. A clone taken from a grow started with an isolate that was developed from a cloned fruit, however, should produce a second grow that is genetically identical to the first.
-------------------- One goes into an experiment knowing one might fail. But one does not undertake an experiment knowing one HAS failed.
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Pastywhyte
Say hello to my little friend



Registered: 09/15/12
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Quote:
PinPornProducer said: I hear bad things about cloning from a clone but what's the downfall other than a shortened life span of the culture? If you have the original culture slanted, grow it out, clone from said tub and then slant that culture would you really see any negative effects if you always start the grow from a slant?
Probably not. I tend to look at culture as "master culture" and "working culture". Master cultures are cared for carefully. Working cultures get taken out behind the woodshed. If it's your working culture go ahead and abuse it.
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cronicr



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Re: Cloning from a clone culture [Re: Pastywhyte] 1
#23937030 - 12/18/16 12:50 AM (7 years, 1 month ago) |
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You can clone from a clone it just sounds silly...you should already have it on agar.
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PinPornProducer
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Re: Cloning from a clone culture [Re: Pastywhyte]
#23937041 - 12/18/16 12:58 AM (7 years, 1 month ago) |
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That's what I was thinking, have your original cultures and your whore cultures. Thanks for the input bro
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PinPornProducer
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Re: Cloning from a clone culture [Re: cronicr]
#23937049 - 12/18/16 01:09 AM (7 years, 1 month ago) |
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Quote:
cronicr said: You can clone from a clone it just sounds silly...you should already have it on agar.
A clone still has multiple genetics though, so wouldn't cloning a clone reduce those genetics even more? Kinda like isolating?
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cronicr



Registered: 08/07/11
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It very well could
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PinPornProducer
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Re: Cloning from a clone culture [Re: cronicr]
#23937101 - 12/18/16 02:01 AM (7 years, 1 month ago) |
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This hobby is an open book...
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cronicr



Registered: 08/07/11
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It certainly is.
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PinPornProducer
Buy the ticket, take the ride



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Re: Cloning from a clone culture [Re: cronicr]
#23937138 - 12/18/16 02:49 AM (7 years, 1 month ago) |
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I think alot of ppl forget that mycology is in its infant stage and cling on to original knowledge way to much...
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cronicr



Registered: 08/07/11
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Most grow for there scales not thw science or respect
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enlightenment
alchemist


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Re: Cloning from a clone culture [Re: cronicr]
#23937199 - 12/18/16 04:20 AM (7 years, 1 month ago) |
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Quote:
cronicr said: You can clone from a clone it just sounds silly...you should already have it on agar.
word. I like to isolate sectors from a clone and fruit each of them. Sometimes the result is very surprising and differs from the original clone. If you clone a clone you mostly just clone a gene pool again, so it's better to clone and isolate to get the best out of your clone IMO.
Quote:
cronicr said: Most grow for there scales not thw science or respect
The most grow for scales. Too bad. I grow for pleasure, science and respect. I am always excited to fruit different species or "strains". It's like art but more exciting because you don't know the result until you grow it (if it isn't an isolate).
Sry.. I am a little philosophic right now 
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van hatton
Still a noob



Registered: 11/23/14
Posts: 5,617
Loc: Michigan
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Quote:
PinPornProducer said: This hobby is an open book...
We are almost the leading frontier into research in mycology it seems at times.
At least in the actives department. I'm sure their are entire labs dedicated just novaly and edibles (also unfortunately just another contest of whose dick is bigger most the time)
Besides honestly if you grew tons of varieties and did the research the scale comes with it. Plus we would have all that knowledge collectively (hopefully).
I'm tired and just got off work sorry for rambling
 Van
-------------------- If I ever give out misinformation please inform me so I can have the correct information. Tmethyl said: Chuck Norris once roundhouse kicked a monotub that wasn't pinning fast enough. The force of the kick rearranged the genetics of the mushrooms, we now call them Penis Envy. Caps McGee said:
Fun part is figuring out what works best for you
Edited by van hatton (12/18/16 04:42 AM)
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r.lutece
gave Columbia her wings.


Registered: 09/06/15
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Quote:
enlightenment said:
Quote:
cronicr said: You can clone from a clone it just sounds silly...you should already have it on agar.
word. I like to isolate sectors from a clone and fruit each of them. Sometimes the result is very surprising and differs from the original clone. If you clone a clone you mostly just clone a gene pool again, so it's better to clone and isolate to get the best out of your clone IMO.
Although it's a good idea to hang on to original clone when you isolate sectors since the resulting isolation could actually perform worse than a collection of particular strains working in synergy.
Here's a question: let's say I have this clone, taken from a non-isolated grow, so it's got a handful of strains working together to make one fruit. Let's say there are five strains, and four of them are beneficial for a nice-looking, strong-fruiting subvariety, but the fifth strain just produces twisted fruits and I prefer straight fruits. If I wanted to cultivate four out of five strains, would I be able to take a chunk of agar that includes all four of those strains, while isolating away from the undesirable strain? If that agar is used in a slurry or liquid culture, will it produce a grow with fruits that are close genetic relatives to the original clone, but with the exclusion of that one undesirable trait?
-------------------- One goes into an experiment knowing one might fail. But one does not undertake an experiment knowing one HAS failed.
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enlightenment
alchemist


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Re: Cloning from a clone culture [Re: r.lutece]
#23937312 - 12/18/16 07:23 AM (7 years, 1 month ago) |
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No. It might be theoretically possible but it is impractical. What you want is a mono culture that produces the fruits you want. It is some effort to get a nice isolate but the "strain selection / synergetic effect of different sectors" you described would be even more effort and is not neccessary and waste of time IMO.
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Th3Issu3
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isn't that how genetics are stabilized?
I think pastywhite is working on something like that with something...
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Mad Season
hookers and blackjack



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Posts: 12,666
Loc: Canada
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Re: Cloning from a clone culture [Re: Th3Issu3]
#23937491 - 12/18/16 09:16 AM (7 years, 1 month ago) |
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When I do clones I take a clone, xfer once to ensure cleanliness, then store it as is. There's no point IMO in isolating a clone. Especially when it could hinder performance, and has done a full fruiting cycle. If you want an isolate start from spores when it'll be hella young. Test it out, and pray you get an epic isolate.
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enlightenment
alchemist


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Re: Cloning from a clone culture [Re: Mad Season]
#23937513 - 12/18/16 09:26 AM (7 years, 1 month ago) |
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True. I hope nobody misunderstood my post where I wrote about mono culture / isolate. I usually isolated from MS. But I had some very bad isolates... (more bad than good) Working with isolates from clones did perform better for me for some reason. Before isolating from MS I recommend to use a clone for the "main projects" because all the time and effort an isolate takes could still give you a bad result.
//edit
I would say it is possible to get a good isolate from a clone but it is always better to isolate from spores and fruit it. The synergetic effect of the different genetics could be reduced/destroyed by isolating from a clone. Anyway I had success with both methods.
Edited by enlightenment (12/18/16 09:32 AM)
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r.lutece
gave Columbia her wings.


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Mad: When you transfer your clones to clean them up, do you do so in a particular way so as to preserve the strain diversity (avoid unintentional isolations)?
-------------------- One goes into an experiment knowing one might fail. But one does not undertake an experiment knowing one HAS failed.
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Mad Season
hookers and blackjack



Registered: 09/16/12
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Re: Cloning from a clone culture [Re: r.lutece]
#23937547 - 12/18/16 09:46 AM (7 years, 1 month ago) |
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Nah I just say fuck it and roll the dice to chance. I guarantee I'm isolating away from some strains. There's no way I could get all the strains in a fruit body when xferring for cleanliness.
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mushboy
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Re: Cloning from a clone culture [Re: Mad Season]
#23937574 - 12/18/16 10:02 AM (7 years, 1 month ago) |
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i have one going now. its from an invitro pin off the original cloned tissue.
growth has been good...
am i assuming there are equal chances of 'isolating' bad genetics vs good since its only a pin and i dont know its full characteristics?
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Mad Season
hookers and blackjack



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Re: Cloning from a clone culture [Re: mushboy]
#23937578 - 12/18/16 10:03 AM (7 years, 1 month ago) |
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I wouldnt say equal chances, but there is a chance you can see both good and bad characteristics.
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r.lutece
gave Columbia her wings.


Registered: 09/06/15
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Re: Cloning from a clone culture [Re: Mad Season]
#23937579 - 12/18/16 10:03 AM (7 years, 1 month ago) |
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I can't help but love questions about strains and isolating. Every answer brings up two questions for me.
When we transfer, we take a very small sample of mycelium. What happens if we take a large sample? Does it increase the odds of contamination?
Also (and this may be getting into realms that we need more advanced equipment to adequately study), if we take samples from two nonadjacent sectors in a cloned subvariety, will those sectors be compatible when reintroduced in a new medium? Or would it be akin to introducing two strains that were isolated individually?
-------------------- One goes into an experiment knowing one might fail. But one does not undertake an experiment knowing one HAS failed.
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enlightenment
alchemist


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Re: Cloning from a clone culture [Re: r.lutece]
#23937592 - 12/18/16 10:07 AM (7 years, 1 month ago) |
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Quote:
When we transfer, we take a very small sample of mycelium. What happens if we take a large sample? Does it increase the odds of contamination?
It increases the chance that you transfer another unwanted sector.
I pass the second question to Mad.
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Mad Season
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Registered: 09/16/12
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Theres a possibility it can merge and have anastomosis, but there's also a possibility they won't. Regardless tho they're both cubensis and are compatible with each other, they will still easily transfer water and nutrients between them, regardless of anastomosis
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Mush 4 Brains
about tree fiddy


Registered: 12/19/07
Posts: 8,298
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Quote:
PinPornProducer said:
Quote:
cronicr said: You can clone from a clone it just sounds silly...you should already have it on agar.
A clone still has multiple genetics though, so wouldn't cloning a clone reduce those genetics even more? Kinda like isolating?
I sort of doubt it. When you clone a clone, all youre doing is expanding mycelium on to another medium.
It probably would experience genetic drift and preform poorly as a result because of how many generations old it is. Just the fungus taking another form, from fruit to mycelium and back to fruit again.
I cant picture you isolating or narrowing down any of the sub-strains by cloning a clone.
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r.lutece
gave Columbia her wings.


Registered: 09/06/15
Posts: 745
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Re: Cloning from a clone culture [Re: Mad Season]
#23937624 - 12/18/16 10:19 AM (7 years, 1 month ago) |
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Quote:
Mad Season said: Theres a possibility it can merge and have anastomosis, but there's also a possibility they won't. Regardless tho they're both cubensis and are compatible with each other, they will still easily transfer water and nutrients between them, regardless of anastomosis
Makes sense. I wasn't sure if there would be increased compatibility between strains that originated from the same clone.
-------------------- One goes into an experiment knowing one might fail. But one does not undertake an experiment knowing one HAS failed.
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cronicr



Registered: 08/07/11
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Quote:
Mush 4 Brains said:
Quote:
PinPornProducer said:
Quote:
cronicr said: You can clone from a clone it just sounds silly...you should already have it on agar.
A clone still has multiple genetics though, so wouldn't cloning a clone reduce those genetics even more? Kinda like isolating?
I sort of doubt it. When you clone a clone, all youre doing is expanding mycelium on to another medium.
It probably would experience genetic drift and preform poorly as a result because of how many generations old it is. Just the fungus taking another form, from fruit to mycelium and back to fruit again.
I cant picture you isolating or narrowing down any of the sub-strains by cloning a clone.
This is semi true but gen are defined by spores not expansion..so say you grew a cake..took a clone and grew that on a qt of rye...you still have very little cell division and likely still have more then one strain so taking another clone wouldn't really hurt anything but again the smart one still has the original plate which would be easier n smarter to work with...i am yet to see a real diff with cubes weather you isolate from a clone or try keep it whole.
The problems would come if you were the guy who took that clone..made a master and expanded it out a bunch of times then grew it and tried to clone again.
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Mad Season
hookers and blackjack



Registered: 09/16/12
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Re: Cloning from a clone culture [Re: cronicr]
#23938327 - 12/18/16 02:56 PM (7 years, 1 month ago) |
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Correct me if I'm wrong but isolating strains regardless of agar transfers or clones of clones are all forms genetic drifting.
And apparently in this thread PF had non-fruiters in a sample beginning with a clone. Seems vastly different from a clone, and I've had many times where clones with a couple transfers performed worse than their MS counterparts, and vice versa obviously.
Shit's all a crapshoot lol. I do agree tho that continuously expanding and cloning would hinder performance a lot more.
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cronicr



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Re: Cloning from a clone culture [Re: Mad Season]
#23938344 - 12/18/16 03:02 PM (7 years, 1 month ago) |
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Yep all clones.and isolates need testing for good reason..i myself have run into wierd things where i clone a cluster and it pops out a bunch of single fruits...ya just never fucking know lol.
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Mush 4 Brains
about tree fiddy


Registered: 12/19/07
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Re: Cloning from a clone culture [Re: cronicr]
#23938368 - 12/18/16 03:11 PM (7 years, 1 month ago) |
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Quote:
cronicr said:
Quote:
Mush 4 Brains said:
Quote:
PinPornProducer said:
Quote:
cronicr said: You can clone from a clone it just sounds silly...you should already have it on agar.
A clone still has multiple genetics though, so wouldn't cloning a clone reduce those genetics even more? Kinda like isolating?
I sort of doubt it. When you clone a clone, all youre doing is expanding mycelium on to another medium.
It probably would experience genetic drift and preform poorly as a result because of how many generations old it is. Just the fungus taking another form, from fruit to mycelium and back to fruit again.
I cant picture you isolating or narrowing down any of the sub-strains by cloning a clone.
This is semi true but gen are defined by spores not expansion..so say you grew a cake..took a clone and grew that on a qt of rye...you still have very little cell division and likely still have more then one strain so taking another clone wouldn't really hurt anything but again the smart one still has the original plate which would be easier n smarter to work with...i am yet to see a real diff with cubes weather you isolate from a clone or try keep it whole.
The problems would come if you were the guy who took that clone..made a master and expanded it out a bunch of times then grew it and tried to clone again.
Generations, since ive joined this website have always referred to mycelium transfers. Like each g2g is a generation. Look it up, you'll find RR referring to generations as mycelium transfers like g2gs etc.
As i recall the consensus was you dont want to go past 5 or so gens. I specifically recall RR saying you can get away with going past 5 or so generations provided the mycelium is young, robust and you move quickly. But nomenclature in cultivation is kind of all over the place. Different people use different words to describe this or that.
Also thats pretty much what i was referring to, using the clone of a clone to start a new grow/master.
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Pastywhyte
Say hello to my little friend



Registered: 09/15/12
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A G2G is a P value as is a 90mm plate grown out. That is a reference to expansion. I have never seen an expansion referred to as a generation. A generation as I understand it is from spore to fruit to spore.
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Mush 4 Brains
about tree fiddy


Registered: 12/19/07
Posts: 8,298
Loc: Tacos
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Re: Cloning from a clone culture [Re: Pastywhyte]
#23938514 - 12/18/16 03:55 PM (7 years, 1 month ago) |
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I know info changes, words/descriptions change, ideology and of course techniques through the years. But im 100% certain that I'm correct. I'll do some searching and dig up an example by RR and or others.
Transfers on agar are excluded from this. It was specifically and almost exclusively in reference to g2g. For example ms to grain jar is gen 1, then g2g from that grain is gen 2 and so on for each transfer.
Im sure some old hands here can back me up on this. I dont stop into cultivation forum much anymore but everytime i do there seems to be new methodology/ideology and nomenclature
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Mush 4 Brains
about tree fiddy


Registered: 12/19/07
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Ok so i found this which backs up what you guys are saying. Even RR said its incorrect nomenclature to call transfers generations however ive been around long enough to see RR stick his foot in his mouth. That is to say he used to say x but later says y. All i know is people at one time did refer to each g2g as a generation.
https://www.shroomery.org/forums/showflat.php/Number/15867731#15867731
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cronicr



Registered: 08/07/11
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I think it was stamets who used to call them gens?
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Pastywhyte
Say hello to my little friend



Registered: 09/15/12
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Here is a great one from workman who's work I have much respect for. Note his use of generation.
Quote:
Workman said: Mushrooom genetics are a little strange since a single mushroom produces spores that can then act as both parents for a new mycelium. Essentially, you are selfing or inbreeding each time you do a multispore grow.
Now consider a wild collection of Psilocybe cubensis with a high heterozygosity. This basically means that most or all of each pair of genes in the mushroom are different from each other. Its the same gene location with the same basic function, but different versions. For example, if there is a single gene for height, you might have a version that gives short mushrooms and a version that gives tall mushrooms. If heterozygosity is high, you have one of each which may result in medium mushrooms unless one of the height genes is dominant.
Now, when you do multispore from a single mushroom you randomly get a mix of all the genes. Sticking to our height gene example, you could get two short copies, two tall copies or one of each. Obviously the strains with two short copies will be short and the ones with two tall copies will be tall.
Lets say we liked the short mushrooms so we saved that one and took a spore print for later. In this example the tall version of the height gene is lost to later generations. There is a net loss of heterozygosity. Over the entire genome the loss is about 50% per generation.
So mathematically we can figure out how many sequential multispore generations we need until the heterozygosity is reduced to an insignificant level and the strain is stable even from multispore.
Starting with a presumably high (~100%) heterozygosity from a wild collection. In reality, the heterozygosity is probably lower than 100%, but its an easy number to start with.
100% wild print 50% 1st generation from wild print 25% 2nd generation from 1st generation print 12.5% 3rd generation..... 6.25% 4th generation..... 3.12% 5th generation..... 1.56% 6th generation..... 0.78% 7th generation.....
You can see that the heterozygosity drops off quickly in the first few generations and is less than 1% after the 6th generation. This highlights the importance of choosing the best traits early on when there are more to choose from. Attempting to isolate traits in well established strains results in only minimal improvements unless spontaneous mutations increase the heterozygosity in a positive way (rare).
In summary:
Popular classic strains in circulation have all been grown well beyond 6 generations and are relatively stable from multispore with little need for isolation.
New strains, from wild material or cross breeding between different strains of the same species, can be stabilized fairly quickly with 6 or 7 generations of sequential multispore grows.
Selection is most important early in the process and if good genes are bred out, they are gone forever. Archiving original or early generation prints is recommended for preserving heterozygosity for later selective breeding. Continuous isolation of a bad strain with hopes of significant improvement is futile.
Does that help?
https://www.shroomery.org/forums/showflat.php/Number/10242476#10242476
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blindingleaf
blue collar underworld


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Re: Cloning from a clone culture [Re: Pastywhyte]
#23938555 - 12/18/16 04:11 PM (7 years, 1 month ago) |
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I think it's 2 kind of uses of the word "generation"-one has to do with genetics and stabikization and the other has to do with grain expansion. it's normal to say "I went to G3 before going to bulk"
-------------------- A few thoughts on cultivation MICROBIAL HUSBANDRY!!!! The whole is greater than the sum of its parts
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blindingleaf
blue collar underworld


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Oh wait...I just realized the g could stand for grain too
-------------------- A few thoughts on cultivation MICROBIAL HUSBANDRY!!!! The whole is greater than the sum of its parts
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Mush 4 Brains
about tree fiddy


Registered: 12/19/07
Posts: 8,298
Loc: Tacos
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Interesting stuff Pasty. I have a lot of respect for the old school guys.. Ohmatic, MonsterMitch, agar, Largedose, Hippiechick to name a few. Rr i always found to be pretentious and i never cared for how he would insert his shitty political opinions into threads but no doubt the man knows his shit. Whatever happened to him anyway? He's still listed as a mod here, no?
But yeah all those guys really wrote the book on cultivation essentially starting from scratch. Plenty of them had a science background. Pretty sure RR said he used to work for Microsoft
You know it really doesnt make much sense to refer to g2gs as generations. A bit misleading
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cronicr



Registered: 08/07/11
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Rr stopped growing mushrooms and started growing weed up until his wife passed away..he only did both for her.
--------------------
  It doesn't matter what i think of you...all that matters is clean spawn I'm tired do me a favor
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Pastywhyte
Say hello to my little friend



Registered: 09/15/12
Posts: 37,810
Loc: Canada
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Re: Cloning from a clone culture [Re: cronicr]
#23938844 - 12/18/16 06:15 PM (7 years, 1 month ago) |
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Like him or hate him, RR was a big influence on the hobby and it was sad to see him so defeated at the end. I hope he is doing better now. I do say that to take every post the man made over the last 2 decades and expect to see no inconsistency is a bit unfair. I like to think that a good cultivator will change their position provided sufficient evidence is there.
I have loads of respect for the old school pioneers but I also believe that the work is only beginning. Lots we don't know and many things we shall do better. Just the amount that has happened with our understanding on how to run a mono since ohmatic put his first one together is crazy. The old school set the stage but the play is far from over.
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cronicr



Registered: 08/07/11
Posts: 61,436
Loc: Van Isle
Last seen: 2 years, 8 days
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Re: Cloning from a clone culture [Re: Pastywhyte]
#23938847 - 12/18/16 06:18 PM (7 years, 1 month ago) |
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He is currently teaching his wisdom to the local tribes in his area and doing fine.
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  It doesn't matter what i think of you...all that matters is clean spawn I'm tired do me a favor
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Pastywhyte
Say hello to my little friend



Registered: 09/15/12
Posts: 37,810
Loc: Canada
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Re: Cloning from a clone culture [Re: cronicr]
#23938850 - 12/18/16 06:20 PM (7 years, 1 month ago) |
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Quote:
cronicr said: He is currently teaching his wisdom to the local tribes in his area and doing fine.
Nice!
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cronicr



Registered: 08/07/11
Posts: 61,436
Loc: Van Isle
Last seen: 2 years, 8 days
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Re: Cloning from a clone culture [Re: Pastywhyte]
#23938857 - 12/18/16 06:22 PM (7 years, 1 month ago) |
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Yep teaching the local natives about mushrooms and marijauna and getting paid!
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  It doesn't matter what i think of you...all that matters is clean spawn I'm tired do me a favor
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PinPornProducer
Buy the ticket, take the ride



Registered: 08/23/14
Posts: 9,981
Loc: Rocky Point R.I
Last seen: 6 years, 24 days
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Re: Cloning from a clone culture [Re: cronicr]
#23938965 - 12/18/16 07:04 PM (7 years, 1 month ago) |
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Living the dream
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keifnnugs
Master fucker
Registered: 11/27/15
Posts: 335
Last seen: 26 days, 5 hours
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Re: Cloning from a clone culture [Re: cronicr]
#23939073 - 12/18/16 08:05 PM (7 years, 1 month ago) |
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Quote:
cronicr said: He is currently teaching his wisdom to the local tribes in his area and doing fine.
That's so awesome.. It was because of everything he wrote I was able to start growing with success right from the gate.. I couldn't imagine how much trial and error there was developing these teks.. I bet a lot of people quit with their first failure. Awesome from him to share it for free
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Mush 4 Brains
about tree fiddy


Registered: 12/19/07
Posts: 8,298
Loc: Tacos
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Re: Cloning from a clone culture [Re: Pastywhyte] 1
#23939418 - 12/18/16 10:55 PM (7 years, 1 month ago) |
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Quote:
Pastywhyte said: Like him or hate him, RR was a big influence on the hobby and it was sad to see him so defeated at the end. I hope he is doing better now. I do say that to take every post the man made over the last 2 decades and expect to see no inconsistency is a bit unfair. I like to think that a good cultivator will change their position provided sufficient evidence is there.
I have loads of respect for the old school pioneers but I also believe that the work is only beginning. Lots we don't know and many things we shall do better. Just the amount that has happened with our understanding on how to run a mono since ohmatic put his first one together is crazy. The old school set the stage but the play is far from over.
I remember hearing his wife was sick, im sorry for his loss..truly.
I agree, you cant fault him on changing up his game for the better as new knowledge came out. Thats not a complaint of mine at all. What i didn't care for was how he would get indignant, short, and mean with me in particular (as well as others) when i had brought up some past conflicting info of his. Thing is i have a very good memory and i dont like to be treated like i imagined stuff.
He could come off as a bit snobby and arrogant imo sometimes. Definitely accomplished a LOT and that could give someone a bit of an ego. Im reasonable i understand he's a man and not a mushroom God, mistakes get made and people get irritated/in moods from time to time. I could only imagine having to answer the same question a bajillion times and having to so often deal with frankly stupid people who wouldn't bother to read the easily available basic info.
There was a post of his where he scolded walmart as an evil greedy corporation that we should all refrain from shopping at. Then in that very same thread he was saying how he was pissed off at Wal-Mart for refusing to stock/sell his video series.
Some poster totally called him out too. He said something like "So dont shop at Wal-Mart because they are evil but it wouldve been alright had they accepted to stock your video and you could fuck the people hand in hand with them?" I was like goddamn, you got a point dude.
This is all 100% true btw, i have no obvious incentive to make up lies to slander the man. I definitely respect him and would be satisfied with accomplishing just a quarter of what he has.
Im not ripping on him for no reason, i believe people need to "think for themselves and question authority." A lot of people just jump on the bandwagon, but thats not me.
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