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OfflineMtez44
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Fruiting mono right after spawning
    #23935595 - 12/17/16 02:29 PM (7 years, 2 months ago)

I read somewhere that someone likes to put monos into fruiting conditions right after spawning. I cannot seem to find the thread.

Is this a practice people do? Does it speed things up? Does it make a difference one way or the other?


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OfflineTh3Issu3
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Re: Fruiting mono right after spawning [Re: Mtez44]
    #23935613 - 12/17/16 02:40 PM (7 years, 2 months ago)

I think pinpornproducer does that

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OfflineTmethylM
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Re: Fruiting mono right after spawning [Re: Th3Issu3]
    #23935619 - 12/17/16 02:42 PM (7 years, 2 months ago)

I did it a few times and it works, I just don't like the concept of it, and it didn't increase yield or growth speed.
Basically it's unnecessary and you don't get anything positive from letting a few more mold spores land on your substrate before it's fully colonized.
It's like you take a little more risk, but the risk is for nothing really.


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InvisiblemushboyMDiscord
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Re: Fruiting mono right after spawning [Re: Mtez44]
    #23935628 - 12/17/16 02:45 PM (7 years, 2 months ago)

zoinks

people do it a lot. ive got my first tub going now. so far im liking it.
pins came in at day 12.

right now clusters are bursting through the top layer.
so far fruit at spawning has my thumbs up:thumbup:

day 15

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OfflineChips
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Re: Fruiting mono right after spawning [Re: Th3Issu3]
    #23935741 - 12/17/16 03:19 PM (7 years, 2 months ago)

https://www.shroomery.org/forums/showflat.php/Number/22315950

Quote:

insanemike said:
Alright azur. I got a theory for the results you and many other's are experiencing with this old and lost gem of a concept that you have enlightened us with.

From my findings, I have shown that temperature differentials fluctuate from hour to hour and from day to day. These temperature differentials follow the circadian rhythm and local climate, with higher differentials coming at peak hour of the day and for lower differentials coming just before the crack of dawn. Temperature differentials are important because they represent the same thing that co2 concentration represents, the rate of metabolism. There for, we can say that the higher the temp diff, the higher the co2 concentration.

During the first 24 hours after spawning the tub, the spawn begins to recover and temperatures are becoming more stabalized. In fact, my data shows that average daily temperature differentials during the first 3 days do not fluctuate all that much.

8/12    +3.5*F
8/13    +3.3*F
8/14    +3.5*F
8/15    +3.8*F

What I've noticed is that most of the colonization of the substrate can be observed during the first 3-4 days after spawning. Days 5 - 7 or 8 (full colonization) it seems as though I'm always waiting for 1 or 2 small spots to finish up. So the first half of the spawn run stage (days 1-4), the oxygen levels are high and co2 levels are low which is ideal for mycelium metabolism. The second half of the spawn run stage (days 5-8), the rate of metabolism slows down dramatically as temperature differentials increase. If temp diff are high then so are co2 levels. Is it coincidence that during those last 4 days of spawn run, the average daily temperature differentials increase rapidly and metabolism slows down rapidly?

8/16    +4.2*F
8/17    +4.1*F
8/18    +4.0*F
8/19    +4.2*F

That high co2 concentration is choking the system and is counter productive when comparing the results between tape vs no tape during spawn run

When a person holds their breath for an extended period of time, the first thing that person does after exhaling is taking a deep breath, maybe even a few of them until finally their breathing becomes stabalized. Mycelium metabolism is fueled by oxygen just like ours and when co2 concentration is high and oxygen levels are low, metabolism is slowed and the network is stressed. When untaping the holes of a monotub to introduce FAE, temperature differentials rapidly increase. With temperature differentials increasing from +5.0*F to +7.4*F in that first 4 hour period after introducing fresh air and then finally stabalizing 4 hours after that which it went back down to +5.0*F again.

I can't help but think that that type of shock to the system is yet another period of counter productivity. Most likely not as detrimental as choking the system with high co2/low o2 levels during the spawn run but still an added delay to pinning. Because those types of rapid temperature increases overwork the system and probably stress the mycelium network and a stressed network is not as productive.

As the mycelium begins to produce hyphal knots, temps increase to a point before dropping back off again and begin climbing back up after pin formation and continues to increase through maturity of mushrooms. If co2 levels are represented by temperature than that would mean that as mushrooms grow, the network is working harder and needs more oxygen to metabolise the substrate to feed the mushroms, the nutrients, they need to grow. If this is the case than it may be most productive to maintain a certain temperature differential throughout the cycle of a monotub. So as temperature differentials increase, we should counter this by increasing flow rate. And this is exactly what most ,in this community, do when they loosen or take out the polyfil in the top holes during maturation of the pinset. With my understanding of natural ventilation, increasing outlet hole size will increase flow rate while decreasing inlet hole size increases speed and distance of incoming jet stream. So when taking poly out of top holes, one is simply increasing flow rate which is increasing o2 levels and lowering co2 levels.

I will be spawning 4 tubs today which gives me the opportunity to track temperature differential trends for the tape vs no tape experiment. I will be using my AA+ agar pin clone and will have 2 tubs with tape and 2 tubs with no tape. I will only be able to track trends for 1 tub from each pair. The data collected from the observation run should give me a basis for a multi-stage ventilation system that has no counter productive periods during the cycle of a monotub.



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OfflineMtez44
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Re: Fruiting mono right after spawning [Re: Chips]
    #23936243 - 12/17/16 07:08 PM (7 years, 2 months ago)

Chips-that last post doesn't really help me. Not sure which language it's written in

Mushboy- do you think it's faster when you fruit at spawning? Ou said pins in12 days. I feel like the standard practice is to check colonization after 10, than fruit. Seems like it is faster to me, no?


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InvisiblemushboyMDiscord
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Re: Fruiting mono right after spawning [Re: Mtez44]
    #23936256 - 12/17/16 07:13 PM (7 years, 2 months ago)

so far but its the first time for me.

i would need to do more runs to make any claims. this happens to be the first mono is this house.
and the first mono in years and the first mp tape...and the first ...:blah:

but so far yes.. it seems to be quicker.

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Offlinekeifnnugs
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Re: Fruiting mono right after spawning [Re: mushboy]
    #23936337 - 12/17/16 07:52 PM (7 years, 2 months ago)

Fruiting right away is the way to go.. No need to wait

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OfflineChips
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Re: Fruiting mono right after spawning [Re: Mtez44]
    #23936577 - 12/17/16 09:21 PM (7 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:

Mtez44 said:
Chips-that last post doesn't really help me. Not sure which language it's written in





it's really not that complicated bud

keeping holes taped before you fruit unnecessarily chokes the system, making it expend energy to recover

this is why in general pins will form sooner if you fruit at spawning

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OfflineMtez44
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Re: Fruiting mono right after spawning [Re: Chips]
    #23936729 - 12/17/16 10:15 PM (7 years, 2 months ago)

Who said it was complicated, bud? I was just being funny

all that fancy vernacular and it still seemed inconclusive to me. Looked like he was still testing his theory

Besides, I was looking for current opinions, not year and a half old ones


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InvisiblePastywhyteMDiscord
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Re: Fruiting mono right after spawning [Re: Mtez44]
    #23936748 - 12/17/16 10:21 PM (7 years, 2 months ago)

Fruiting at spawning is fine as long as you either case it or pseudo case it. It seems to help speed pin times with PE slightly, presumably due to the increased metabolism that comes with higher O2. Downside is a more plural flushing pattern.

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OfflinePinPornProducer
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Re: Fruiting mono right after spawning [Re: Pastywhyte]
    #23936821 - 12/17/16 10:41 PM (7 years, 2 months ago)

These are pe spawned and fruited on the 2nd, today is day 15. Granted they are blobs, but normally I don't see knots until day 10 or 11. I had growth starting on day 9. I also think fruiting at spawning helps repel contamination to some extent by having constant airflow from day 1 because the air is not stagnant

I do however have a couple pe tubs I let colonize for 11 days and then cased. No growth yet but I'm hoping for normal fruits. Just trying to find out what my cultures prefer


Edited by PinPornProducer (12/17/16 10:42 PM)

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OfflineA.RichardTrickle
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Re: Fruiting mono right after spawning [Re: Tmethyl]
    #23936895 - 12/17/16 11:07 PM (7 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:

Tmethyl said:
I did it a few times and it works, I just don't like the concept of it, and it didn't increase yield or growth speed.
Basically it's unnecessary and you don't get anything positive from letting a few more mold spores land on your substrate before it's fully colonized.
It's like you take a little more risk, but the risk is for nothing really.



I never thought of this....
Good pointPazty, what's a "plural fruiting pattern"???
Dick


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"When eating shit, it is best not to nibble.  Bite, Chew. Swallow. Repeat."
"If you're making love to your old lady, someone else is fucking her"
"Douchebags are children who never grew up, like Sheeklette, we should pity them."
[quote]Niffla said:
[quote]A.RichardTrickle said:
Dick[/quote]
http://www.youtube.com/v/kbwNUOUy-3c[/quote]

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InvisiblePastywhyteMDiscord
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Re: Fruiting mono right after spawning [Re: A.RichardTrickle]
    #23936909 - 12/17/16 11:18 PM (7 years, 2 months ago)

Where the first and second flush blend together rather than being defined. This is common with ms but with fruiting at spawning I see it sometimes with clones that usually exhibit pretty district flushes.

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OfflineA.RichardTrickle
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Re: Fruiting mono right after spawning [Re: Pastywhyte]
    #23937100 - 12/18/16 02:00 AM (7 years, 2 months ago)

Saw that with the shoebox dubs.
Thank you sir :-)
Dick


--------------------
"When eating shit, it is best not to nibble.  Bite, Chew. Swallow. Repeat."
"If you're making love to your old lady, someone else is fucking her"
"Douchebags are children who never grew up, like Sheeklette, we should pity them."
[quote]Niffla said:
[quote]A.RichardTrickle said:
Dick[/quote]
http://www.youtube.com/v/kbwNUOUy-3c[/quote]

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Offlinespore-ty
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Re: Fruiting mono right after spawning [Re: Pastywhyte]
    #23937255 - 12/18/16 05:59 AM (7 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:

mushboy said:
zoinks

people do it a lot. ive got my first tub going now. so far im liking it.
pins came in at day 12.

right now clusters are bursting through the top layer.
so far fruit at spawning has my thumbs up:thumbup:

day 15





What kind of casing are you using? And ya the more plural flushes are pretty mean fruiting at spawning
Ill add some pics later but from a clone culture the pin set sucked ass on the top but all around the block of the substrate full of mushies

Quote:

Pastywhyte said:
Where the first and second flush blend together rather than being defined. This is common with ms but with fruiting at spawning I see it sometimes with clones that usually exhibit pretty district flushes.



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