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kronikdaheghog
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Registered: 12/17/16
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issues with mycelium growth
#23935327 - 12/17/16 12:40 PM (7 years, 1 month ago) |
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i have been using 1:1:2 (by volume) water:BRF:vermiculite in 1/2 pint jars, autoclaved, two holes in the top for inoculation, replaced foil, put in sterilite container with pad underneath for warmth in closet temp/hygrometer reads: 75-79degrees:99%humidity my problem is the cakes dont seem to want to 100% colonize - they only get to like 75% after 3 weeks (looks like normal white mycelium)... Two questions about mycelium: 1) Am i doing something wrong? Need more holes in the top? If so, should I bother to do it now? 2) Can I try to fruit a non-fully colonized cake? Should I attempt now?
Fruiting chamber questions: wet paper towels, layer of sterilized perlite in sterilite container with heating source underneath 1) Does that sound appropriate for fruiting? 2) Best temp? 3) Do I need to put it in direct sun at all?
Thanks for the help
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PirateSwazey


Registered: 12/12/12
Posts: 2,993
Loc: Here, Now
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Could be bacterial... Need to post a pic with a question to get a definitive answer.
Ditch the paper towels and heater... No need to sterilize perlite.
Search for how to build a proper "SGFC" - shotgun fruiting chamber.
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Tira



Registered: 11/20/10
Posts: 1,202
Loc: Turkey
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Don't put your jars in a box, and you don't need to heat them unless your room temp is extremely low.
There are two explanations why your cakes won't colonize 100%:
1- Uncolonized areas are bacterial: If this is the case, you can see sectoring (and probably some kind of little gap) between the colonized area and the uncolonized area. Also, uncolonized area might seem darker or wetter than usual substrate.
2-Your cakes are suffocating because they are in a closed box.
You can fruit uncolonized cakes but you should clean the uncolonized parts first and give them a good wash with cold water.
You don't need to sterilize perlite, just wash it before filling it into your fruiting chamber.
Don't put mycelium in direct sunlight. Ambient room light is enough.
Did you put filters on top of the inoculation holes? Do you have a vermiculite layer on top of each jar? How was your inoculation process like? Where did you inoculate them?
Pictures could help us identify the problem better.
Btw you can find answers to all of your questions if you watch RogerRabbit's Let's Grow Mushrooms videos.
-------------------- Useful Links for Beginners The Basics AMU Teks Frank''s Teks Agar Noob Forum Reccomended Teks Agar for guaranteed spawn, Proper pasteurization for guaranteed substrate.
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bodhisatta 
Smurf real estate agent


Registered: 04/30/13
Posts: 61,889
Loc: Milky way
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4 holes in top per directions Foil comes off stays off after sterilization, don't put new foil on Heating pads are a big no 68-72 is good ie room temperature Humidity shouldn't be 99% and during colonization humidity doesn't matter at all Don't put holes in now they needed to be there from the start You can try to fruit partially colonized cakes by Washing off the uncolonized portions
1b. No that sounds like a terrible fruiting chamber And no not directly in sun. Use recommend fluorescent lighting. Links in signature to relevant information
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kronikdaheghog
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Registered: 12/17/16
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thanks for the replies...obviously i dont know what the hell im doing, haha... i didnt do the vermiculite layer on top of the jars...fail
i took pics of 4 sample jars...i think i have like 8 in all that look similar to this... the growth appears white, sometimes cobwebby, sometimes a little grayer sorry the lighting is shitty...

i looked up shotgun terrarium...ill build one and go ahead with that...maybe just try to fruit all these and see what happens...
what is everyones opinion?
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Tira



Registered: 11/20/10
Posts: 1,202
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These jars have bacterial contamination. A layer of dry verm on top of the jars serves as a layer of filter and protects the substrates from contamination. I can't see the top of the lids but looking at those jars, I'm guessing there are no filters or anything on those holes right?
I'd keep the ones that are mostly colonized (the ones that come out of the jar as a block) and toss those weren't (the ones that fall apart).
Just watch this and the other parts of it, it'll take 20 minutes of your time and will save weeks of it.
-------------------- Useful Links for Beginners The Basics AMU Teks Frank''s Teks Agar Noob Forum Reccomended Teks Agar for guaranteed spawn, Proper pasteurization for guaranteed substrate.
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kronikdaheghog
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Re: issues with mycelium growth [Re: Tira]
#23967659 - 12/30/16 09:57 AM (7 years, 1 month ago) |
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what if i dont have medical tape for under the top of the jar? does that really matter that much?
thanks
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kronikdaheghog
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Re: issues with mycelium growth [Re: Tira]
#23967706 - 12/30/16 10:17 AM (7 years, 1 month ago) |
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should i always dunk and roll the cakes? ive never heard of doing that... i can sterilize the verm beforehand, shouldnt be a problem
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Tira



Registered: 11/20/10
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Quote:
kronikdaheghog said: what if i dont have medical tape for under the top of the jar? does that really matter that much?
thanks
Well you need some kind of filter or what you're doing is basically inviting contamination by leaving the holes open for them. Micropore tape over the holes, tyvek under the lid, polyfill stuffed into holes; any of these would be a barrier with airborne particles in your environment and the sterilized content of the jar.
Dry layer of verm also serves as a filter both works better when combined with some kind of filter. I've done my first grow without filters on holes (but with vermiculite on top of the substrate) and did not have any issues except a little bit of bacterial contamination.
Yes, you should always dunk and roll the cakes, mushrooms are %90 water and mycelium consumes most of the water in your jars during colonization, so you need to replenish that by dunking.
Having vermiculite on your cakes works both as a water reservoir for your cakes, and as a casing for your cakes (it helps them forming pins).
How did your jars do? Did you get any fruits from them?
-------------------- Useful Links for Beginners The Basics AMU Teks Frank''s Teks Agar Noob Forum Reccomended Teks Agar for guaranteed spawn, Proper pasteurization for guaranteed substrate.
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kronikdaheghog
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Re: issues with mycelium growth [Re: Tira]
#23968513 - 12/30/16 03:51 PM (7 years, 1 month ago) |
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ill dunk em tonight, roll and place in fruiting chamber tomorrow. thanks for your help. will send pics
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Tira



Registered: 11/20/10
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Quote:
kronikdaheghog said: ill dunk em tonight, roll and place in fruiting chamber tomorrow. thanks for your help. will send pics
are we talking about the same jars you posted about 13 days ago?
If so, did they continue colonization? How do they look?
-------------------- Useful Links for Beginners The Basics AMU Teks Frank''s Teks Agar Noob Forum Reccomended Teks Agar for guaranteed spawn, Proper pasteurization for guaranteed substrate.
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kronikdaheghog
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Re: issues with mycelium growth [Re: Tira]
#23970962 - 12/31/16 02:21 PM (7 years, 30 days ago) |
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kronikdaheghog
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how does this look? they all were pure white, smelled strongly of mushrooms, floated in the water during dunk...i used sterile vermiculite for the roll three inches of sterile (before water) perlite in the bottom of the SGFC
opinions?
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kronikdaheghog
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id also like heat source opinions...its been around 60s where im at...house is not heated.. also, how much direct light? indirect light?
thanks
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Ziran
The Hero of Time




Registered: 02/03/16
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You forgot the foil under the cakes. a 5000k to 6500k bulb directly above will work just fine.
Also 70-75 is the perfect temp range.
-------------------- Song Of Healing
Updated Pf Tek Guide Ziran's Teks AMU Q&A Thread The Chinese word for nature is zìrán and it means that of which is of itself.

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tryptkaloids
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colder temps will take a little longer but provide more robust fruits 60s will work but not ideal, can you turn the heat up in the room they're in? that's about the only way to go.
-------------------- "Remember, kids, the difference between science and screwing around is writing it down" -adam savage Flowchart for Recommended plan of action. Learn the tried and true way to grow mushrooms Use the Damn search engine After you know what you're doing, take a break Pick a book, Make some chips! Josex said:Don't take the site seriously bro, ain't worth it.
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kronikdaheghog
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the humidity is fine (99% in the chamber) but im thinking about pouring water directly onto the cakes to speed up/produce larger fruit. i've read you can do that. is that true or is it a bad idea?
thanks for the advice on light and temp.
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bodhisatta 
Smurf real estate agent


Registered: 04/30/13
Posts: 61,889
Loc: Milky way
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Humidity should be more like 50-80 and only 90-99 within an inch of the surface of the cakes. If the whole chamber is 99 you wont have great results
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Tira



Registered: 11/20/10
Posts: 1,202
Loc: Turkey
Last seen: 6 years, 3 months
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Quote:
kronikdaheghog said: im thinking about pouring water directly onto the cakes
Misting them is better than pouring water on them. You can also do bottom watering along with misting.
I use mini cake foils like these:

Just fill a little amount at a time and only add more after they've sucked it up and the cup is empty or near empty
-------------------- Useful Links for Beginners The Basics AMU Teks Frank''s Teks Agar Noob Forum Reccomended Teks Agar for guaranteed spawn, Proper pasteurization for guaranteed substrate.
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kronikdaheghog
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Re: issues with mycelium growth [Re: Tira]
#23976814 - 01/02/17 05:26 PM (7 years, 28 days ago) |
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Ok, that makes alot more sense, thanks Tira. I have been misting 2-3x/day. Ill invest in some mini cake foils.
No pins yet guys as far as I can see.
Im dunking one more tonight, will send a pic of the cake before dunking just to get your opinion.
Thanks again.
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kronikdaheghog
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found these this morning...they are on 1 of 12 cakes...hard to see from pics but looks like 3 beginning to grow
just keep misting and hope for the best?
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cubensis333
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Registered: 12/28/16
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when did you put the those cakes in the fruiting chamber??
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kronikdaheghog
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Re: issues with mycelium growth [Re: cubensis333]
#23981163 - 01/04/17 11:39 AM (7 years, 26 days ago) |
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cubensis333: 11 of 12 cakes were put in chamber on 12/31 (4 days ago), I added one yesterday
1 of the original 11 have pins (one of the closest to the window), should i open the blinds or something?
thanks
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cubensis333
noob


Registered: 12/28/16
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the mushrooms need the light as to tell them which way is up, they dont really need it.
but i recommend bottom watering when your cakes pin so that they can grow their shroomies to their full potential heres a link(its very simple and easy takes couple minutes to do): https://www.shroomery.org/forums/showflat.php/Number/23709858#23709858
and how often do you mist/fan? and what are temp/humidity?
Edited by cubensis333 (01/04/17 12:00 PM)
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PsilocyBen17
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Re: issues with mycelium growth [Re: cubensis333]
#23981220 - 01/04/17 12:01 PM (7 years, 26 days ago) |
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cubes need light to initiate pinning. OP, you just need to be more patient. It can take up to two weeks to see pins.
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cubensis333
noob


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and do you have anything under your cakes???? like a small square of aluminum? the cakes could be drying out losing its moisture to the perlite b/c theres nothing inbetween the cake and perlite. that should be fixed asap
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PsilocyBen17
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Re: issues with mycelium growth [Re: cubensis333]
#23981228 - 01/04/17 12:03 PM (7 years, 26 days ago) |
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yes, cut it to fit, dont use a huge peice.
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bodhisatta 
Smurf real estate agent


Registered: 04/30/13
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Cubes do not need light for growing upwards. They're gravotrophic first and grow upwards in the dark. The caps orient towards light
Cubes do not need light to pin they'll happily pin in the dark if they're ready.
Light is important for good looking shrooms and yield
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kronikdaheghog
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Re: issues with mycelium growth [Re: cubensis333]
#23981244 - 01/04/17 12:09 PM (7 years, 26 days ago) |
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thanks for the feedback guys...
i am misting 2 to 3 times / day Temp hovers around 70 depending on what time of day/night Humidity is 99 but the hygrometer is laying on the perlite
I will place foil under the pinning cake today using the tek described in the link...should i put foil under all the cakes regardless of pinning? Seems to be some different opinions on that...
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kronikdaheghog
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one other issue i had when rolling the cakes is that for some cakes, the verm didnt stick very well, so some have a bit of exposed mycelium...otherwise they look and smell fine... is that a huge problem? re-dunk and roll?
thanks
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PsilocyBen17
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Lol you are worrying way too much man! You have pins!!! Grab a beer and kick back!
As for the dunk and roll, the finer the verm you can get the better. A gentle roll never sufficed for me. I used to put it in a bag and shake well. Verm not stucking is not indicative of a problem.
Post up some pics when you harvest.
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kronikdaheghog
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haha thanks for the vote of confidence!  earlier in the thread people told me these were contaminated! not bad for a first timer i guess...
last question...again, seems to have mixed opinions on other threads...standing water in the foil base? when and why or dont at all?
ill post pics when i get something to harvest
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PsilocyBen17
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dont put standing water anywhere in your sgfc...cubes dont need it anyway
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cubensis333
noob


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Bottom watering TEK for a nice yield i disagree
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pblcenmy1
str8 noob



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Re: issues with mycelium growth [Re: cubensis333]
#23984410 - 01/05/17 04:28 PM (7 years, 25 days ago) |
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Those tiny cakes will dry fast. And 4 inches above that perlite is not 99% humidity probably why its pinning below only. Theres alot of blank space in there drying out the top faster. Its healthy none the least. Keep misting
-------------------- ~LoveLife~ Down 2 Earth, Up N Space!
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PsilocyBen17
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Re: issues with mycelium growth [Re: cubensis333]
#23984417 - 01/05/17 04:30 PM (7 years, 25 days ago) |
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Those yeilds are no better than what could be achieved by misting.... standing water=bacteria. When I started out I would over water my tubs and would see green by the first flush. I don't even dunk anymore and have great results, but I think at this point we are splitting hairs. Do what works for you.
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pblcenmy1
str8 noob



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^ to what he says
-------------------- ~LoveLife~ Down 2 Earth, Up N Space!
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kronikdaheghog
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Re: issues with mycelium growth [Re: pblcenmy1]
#23984503 - 01/05/17 04:55 PM (7 years, 25 days ago) |
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how about I bottom water a few of them (cakes) and see what happens?
if the water stands for any significant time (like 24hrs) ill dump it.
sound good?
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PsilocyBen17
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LOL why not just mist? If you are using MS it will be impossible to tell differences in yield anyway.
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pblcenmy1
str8 noob



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Even 24 hours would be too long for the water to sit. Stay on track with what your doing. Its working bro
-------------------- ~LoveLife~ Down 2 Earth, Up N Space!
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kronikdaheghog
Stranger

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Re: issues with mycelium growth [Re: pblcenmy1]
#23985186 - 01/05/17 09:09 PM (7 years, 25 days ago) |
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Forgive my lack of experience...what's MS?
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PsilocyBen17
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multi spore.
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ultramanjay
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Your cakes kinda look good for a first timer though man. You didnt catch any contams?
-------------------- “In biology, nothing is clear, everything is too complicated, everything is a mess, and just when you think you understand something, you peel off a layer and find deeper complications beneath. Nature is anything but simple.” ― Richard Preston
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kronikdaheghog
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Re: issues with mycelium growth [Re: ultramanjay]
#24000834 - 01/11/17 11:04 AM (7 years, 19 days ago) |
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Hey guys, just an update here...
Ive seen no contams so far (about 12 fruiting cakes and another 12 jars coming down the line...) just to address that question...
Please take a look at this pic of what I assume is the first real flush of the cake that was originally pinning...sorry its sideways

as a first timer, i have a few questions: 1) is that a decent flush? i figured the mushrooms would be fewer but larger... 2) its kinda hard to see but some of the mushrooms got dark (black in coloration, not blue) overnight as the gills fully extended (this was accidental, i usually pluck as soon as veil breaks). are the mushrooms that got dark in coloration bad to eat? i went ahead and dried them anyways... 3) how to proceed with this specific cake: continue to mist/water until no more pins? when do i redunk or do i just toss it?
any other advice would be appreciated...thanks for all the help..
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tryptkaloids
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1) we don't know what you harvested... 2)probably just spores... if so they should wipe off. 3)re-dunk then continue to mist/fan
-------------------- "Remember, kids, the difference between science and screwing around is writing it down" -adam savage Flowchart for Recommended plan of action. Learn the tried and true way to grow mushrooms Use the Damn search engine After you know what you're doing, take a break Pick a book, Make some chips! Josex said:Don't take the site seriously bro, ain't worth it.
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kronikdaheghog
Stranger

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B+
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tryptkaloids
Learner



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I mean how much it weighed... a picture doesn't tell me how much you have..
-------------------- "Remember, kids, the difference between science and screwing around is writing it down" -adam savage Flowchart for Recommended plan of action. Learn the tried and true way to grow mushrooms Use the Damn search engine After you know what you're doing, take a break Pick a book, Make some chips! Josex said:Don't take the site seriously bro, ain't worth it.
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kronikdaheghog
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well what would be a good harvest in grams of a 1/2 pint B+ cake, after dehydration?
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Psilosoulful
Registered: 09/05/14
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Quote:
kronikdaheghog said: well what would be a good harvest in grams of a 1/2 pint B+ cake, after dehydration?
That's hard to answer, soo many factors come into play (genetics, environmental conditions, composition of your cake, etc.)
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Mycolorado
Hobbyist


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Quote:
kronikdaheghog said: well what would be a good harvest in grams of a 1/2 pint B+ cake, after dehydration?
6-8 grams
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