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Offlinesunshine
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I'm concerned about the existence of religion
    #23930282 - 12/15/16 05:43 PM (7 years, 1 month ago)

wouldn't it be better without religion?


--------------------
One Love True Indeed.  Have Good Trips.  Mike/sunshine's mom.


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OfflineSomeoneWhoIsMe
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Re: I'm concerned about the existence of religion [Re: sunshine]
    #23930287 - 12/15/16 05:44 PM (7 years, 1 month ago)

yes


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InvisibleDustyBottoms
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Re: I'm concerned about the existence of religion [Re: SomeoneWhoIsMe]
    #23930305 - 12/15/16 05:51 PM (7 years, 1 month ago)

Quote:

SomeoneWhoIsMe said:
yes




Amen

I just finished Richard Dawkins' The God Delusion.  A wonderful book that makes a pretty strong case for a "yes" to your question, OP


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OfflineHuskies
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Re: I'm concerned about the existence of religion [Re: DustyBottoms]
    #23930320 - 12/15/16 05:56 PM (7 years, 1 month ago)

Once people became conscious of death, one of the first things they come up with are religious beliefs to make sense of it. It's no coincidence that virtually every tribe has gods.  It's death anxiety relief, always has been, always will be.


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I call them Huskies cause you tell them to go "Mush! Mush""


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InvisibleThe Blind Ass
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Re: I'm concerned about the existence of religion [Re: DustyBottoms]
    #23930328 - 12/15/16 05:57 PM (7 years, 1 month ago)

Its a problem of Men, not religion.
Just like drugs can fuck up someone, so to can religion, so to can politics.  My point? Its the individual where it starts no? 

Even if religion was not around, some other type of cult would arise and so the cycle would begin and the issues would be similar but under a different system.

Civilization is a necessary evil if you dont want to live out in the wild -  and religion played a huge role in helping civilization come about along with politics.

Things will change over time, in 1,000 years things wont even resemble today.


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Give me Liberty caps -or- give me Death caps


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Offlinethebug76
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Re: I'm concerned about the existence of religion [Re: The Blind Ass]
    #23930412 - 12/15/16 06:23 PM (7 years, 1 month ago)

Religion is another form of control just like governments. With government, you do things a certain way or you go to jail, with religion, you do things a certain way or you go to hell. Notice the similarities. I know it's not always hell, but it could be being born to a lower caste next life or a number of different punishments.


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Offlinesunshine
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Re: I'm concerned about the existence of religion [Re: thebug76]
    #23930433 - 12/15/16 06:32 PM (7 years, 1 month ago)

I just don't want to be punished is all.


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One Love True Indeed.  Have Good Trips.  Mike/sunshine's mom.


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InvisibleThe Blind Ass
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Re: I'm concerned about the existence of religion [Re: sunshine]
    #23930699 - 12/15/16 07:37 PM (7 years, 1 month ago)

Or it could be just reaping what you sow.  Like cheating on your girlfriend and feeling terrible guilt over it - which is painful ie suffering ie. hell.  SO be a good Dog and only fuck 1 sheep ok.


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Give me Liberty caps -or- give me Death caps


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OfflinePeyote Road
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Re: I'm concerned about the existence of religion [Re: The Blind Ass]
    #23930849 - 12/15/16 08:38 PM (7 years, 1 month ago)

Religion is just an expression of human culture, it's not good or bad in of itself. Its actually a complex topic and can't be over simplified in my opinion. There is a lot of spiritual knowledge and wisdom in religion and of course religion is also used to control and manipulate people.


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The path of the herbalist is to open ourselves to nature in an innocent and pure way. SHe in turn will open her bounty and reward us with many valuable secrets. May the earth bless you. - Michael Tierra


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OfflinePeyote Road
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Re: I'm concerned about the existence of religion [Re: Huskies]
    #23930861 - 12/15/16 08:41 PM (7 years, 1 month ago)

Quote:

Huskies said:
Once people became conscious of death, one of the first things they come up with are religious beliefs to make sense of it. It's no coincidence that virtually every tribe has gods.  It's death anxiety relief, always has been, always will be.




The gods govern life as well as death, so I don't think that's accurate. Religion can be just as much about living a good life as having a good death, furthermore I'd argue that many concepts in religion like the Buddhist concept of no self, don't exactly go very far to relieve the average person's death anxiety. Most people don't like to hear that they are not what they think are.


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The path of the herbalist is to open ourselves to nature in an innocent and pure way. SHe in turn will open her bounty and reward us with many valuable secrets. May the earth bless you. - Michael Tierra


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Offlinethebug76
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Re: I'm concerned about the existence of religion [Re: sunshine]
    #23930927 - 12/15/16 09:06 PM (7 years, 1 month ago)

I consider myself spiritual, but not religious. I don't think there is any punishment or reward after this body dies, just another purpose and reuse of the energy that makes up our essence, soul, spirit, or whatever you want to call it.

I do believe there's a higher power. I don't think human consciousness could've evolved to the intelligence level it has without it, but I think it is just the source energy and not a "god" per say. Although, I guess a god would be a good a name as any to call it. I don't believe it came to earth in a human body or that it had a child with a virgin.

Back then, sex out of wedlock was punishable by death, so of course they said it was a miracle baby, wouldn't you.
Go read Romans chapter 1 verses 1-5. It plainly says that jesus had a human bloodline and only became the son of god through the resurrection. Yet christians die for the belief that he was in all ways gods child with contradictory info in the very book they take up their way of life in.

In other words, religion is all about wordplay and stopping people from doing things that a certain group doesn't like. And that's all religions. "Oh God doesn't like sinners and smoking that herb is a sin". Come on, give me a break.


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OfflinePeyote Road
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Re: I'm concerned about the existence of religion [Re: thebug76] * 1
    #23930979 - 12/15/16 09:19 PM (7 years, 1 month ago)

I feel like the idea that smoking herb is a sin is a modern idea that has nothing to do with the spiritual teachings of Jesus and Christianity. You could make just as strong an argument that herb is a gift from God as a sin. But our modern culture has both grown to fear nature, as well as fallen deep into addiction. So now herb became associated with druggies and addiction, rather than its inherent spiritual and medicinal properties. If we lived in a healthy society than could enjoy herb without abusing it, there would be a totally different perception of it.

Its a lot like tobacco. Native americans saw tobacco as sacred but our society abuses it so we think its bad and we teach our children its bad. What if we taught our children tobacco was a sacred gift from nature meant to be enjoyed responsibly and instead of mass producing cigarettes we smoked natural tobacco on special occasions? Kds would then grow up respecting tobacco and knowing how to use it, rather than either avoiding it or becoming addicted to it.


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The path of the herbalist is to open ourselves to nature in an innocent and pure way. SHe in turn will open her bounty and reward us with many valuable secrets. May the earth bless you. - Michael Tierra


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InvisibleGibbering_wreck
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Re: I'm concerned about the existence of religion *DELETED* [Re: Peyote Road]
    #23931005 - 12/15/16 09:28 PM (7 years, 1 month ago)

Post deleted by NHshroomerLR

Reason for deletion: I'm a simpleton



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InvisibleGibbering_wreck
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Re: I'm concerned about the existence of religion *DELETED* [Re: Gibbering_wreck]
    #23931012 - 12/15/16 09:32 PM (7 years, 1 month ago)

Post deleted by NHshroomerLR

Reason for deletion: Unnecessary post



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Offlinesunshine
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Re: I'm concerned about the existence of religion [Re: Gibbering_wreck]
    #23931031 - 12/15/16 09:44 PM (7 years, 1 month ago)

Religion is scary.


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One Love True Indeed.  Have Good Trips.  Mike/sunshine's mom.


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Offlinethebug76
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Re: I'm concerned about the existence of religion [Re: Peyote Road]
    #23931088 - 12/15/16 10:17 PM (7 years, 1 month ago)

The herb thing was just an example. I could've just as easily said " oh god doesn't like sinners and sex without his blessing of marriage is a sin", or anything else that's considered a sin.

I just smoked some kickass bud and religion is a touchy point for me, so I apologize in advance for the following wall of text. Don't worry, I'm not ass in it, I just giving detailed answer to OP's original question in essay form. I hope none of y'all are English professors cause I didn't even proofread or change out words to sound more professional and educated like they like.

There were many, many gospels written, yet only 4 were allowed in the bible. ( I know I'm talking mostly about Christianity, but the same concepts apply to almost all religions) Jesus had a supposed half-brother whom Joseph was actually the father with Mary being the mother, Thomas. He wrote a gospel stating that he sat beside Jesus and his gospel was only the words of Jesus and not his own (Thomas's).
It wasn't allowed in the bible because of one single verse that says "The kingdom of God cannot be found in buildings of wood and stone for it is within yourself".

A bunch weren't allowed in because of one common trait, They talk about Jesus and Mary Magdeline being married and having children. The 4 that did (Matthew, Mark, Luke, and John) all claim that she was a whore who Jesus saved and brought in as one of his desciples. My question here is why, with so many more stating she was his wife than otherwise, would they choose that story instead?  Best answer: Jesus needed to be more than human to keep the foundation of christianity stable.

Christianity, Muslim, and islam all worship the same god by the way.

Some religions have a single God, and some have many gods with a primary god or trio of gods. They all have a few things in common too like: a hierarchy, whether it be God>Cherubs>Archangels>Angels or Primary God>brothers or top group>lesser gods>demi-gods, and a flood story, check out The Epic of Gilgamesh (the oldest writing ever found), and the gods/angels always came from the sky, even in Christianity, an all-powerful God couldn't just materialize, he "came down" from the "heavens". Check out the original meaning of the word heaven, not what religion has turned it into.

I'm not saying it would be better if religion didn't exist, it provides morality better than anything, but I think all schools should require religion and mythology classes that teach all beliefs, not just one. Then everyone would understand why other religions believe and do things they do. It's all they've known from birth, and not just the current generation, but for many generations. It's been ingrained in cultures for hundreds or thousands of years. They can't help thinking the way they do.

I have a strong Christian background. It was all I knew until I went back to college late in life (35yrs old then) and I chose as many religion and mythology classes as I could because they were easy A', but I learned a lot and then the next time I ate mushrooms, I'm not even going to get into the revelations I had, that's a 6 page report by itself.


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OfflineLucisM
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Re: I'm concerned about the existence of religion [Re: sunshine]
    #23931120 - 12/15/16 10:28 PM (7 years, 1 month ago)

Quote:

sunshine said:
wouldn't it be better without religion?







If you were to expunge religion from the face of the earth, you would need to have proper leaders step up to the plate for people to follow, because people are always looking for someone to follow.  These leaders would have to be fair, and not try to take advantage of those that trusted them, this might be hard to find with the way many people are though, you give some people the smallest shred of power and they turn into Stalin overnight.

Quote:

NHshroomerLR said:
Dogma sucks but going through the motions feels good. I'm antitheist but I enjoy the ceremony of "religion" it's like make believe for adults. Feels good to use your imagination



Quote:

NHshroomerLR said:
Every morning when I wake up I'm put-off that I'm still here so having a distraction even though I don't believe in anything, helps alleviate my desire to not exist.





I disagree.

You can find other things to distract yourself with, things that will actually benefit yourself, and possibly the people around you, it seems counterproductive to distract yourself with outdated beliefs.

You should create your own ceremonies to alleviate your worries, I find that doing 100-200 pushups before I get out of the house in the morning is my ritual, my ceremony, and I am working on the temple of Fennario, building the temple walls of flesh and sinew.



Quote:

sunshine said:
I just don't want to be punished is all.





Yet you punish yourself by thinking such a way, which just makes this reality harder for you to deal with because you worry about being judged for being human, just use your mind, approach each situation from a standpoint of logic and reason, you don't need imaginary friends to tell you how to live your life, to remind you it's not OK to murder someone, if you do then you're weak.

I think mankind should work towards bettering ourselves without religions, this way we become truly strong, and we create strong men and women who have been forged in the fires of rational thought.  Imaginary friends are not going to fly us to other planets, imaginary friends are not going to take us to the depths of the oceans, people of flesh and blood engineer the things we need to explore such places, so lets put our resources in the things we can see, the things we can feel, the things which are real, and in doing so a brighter future might be had by the next generation, a future not sunk in the mire of religious zealotry and ignorance.


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©️


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OfflinePeyote Road
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Re: I'm concerned about the existence of religion [Re: Lucis]
    #23931159 - 12/15/16 10:45 PM (7 years, 1 month ago)

Quote:


I'm not saying it would be better if religion didn't exist, it provides morality better than anything, but I think all schools should require religion and mythology classes that teach all beliefs, not just one. Then everyone would understand why other religions believe and do things they do. It's all they've known from birth, and not just the current generation, but for many generations. It's been ingrained in cultures for hundreds or thousands of years. They can't help thinking the way they do.




I agree not only should kids be taught about religion (religion is actually one of the most important topics in human history as it is a powerful force in the shaping of culture yet I was taught virtually nothing about religion in school, not even the basics) kids should also be taught basic life skills, like how to eat right, how to cope with depression and other mental problems, how to think for themselves, and how to relate with other people in a healthy manner. If we taught our kids these things, the world would completely change in a generation. I believe it is a conspiracy that we dont teach things, because no person in their right mind could possibly object to teachings kids these things and yet its almost never done.


--------------------
The path of the herbalist is to open ourselves to nature in an innocent and pure way. SHe in turn will open her bounty and reward us with many valuable secrets. May the earth bless you. - Michael Tierra


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OfflinePeyote Road
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Re: I'm concerned about the existence of religion [Re: Gibbering_wreck]
    #23931165 - 12/15/16 10:48 PM (7 years, 1 month ago)

Quote:

NHshroomerLR said:
Every morning when I wake up I'm put-off that I'm still here so having a distraction even though I don't believe in anything, helps alleviate my desire to not exist.




i also struggle with that desire to not exist. existence often feels like such a burden.


--------------------
The path of the herbalist is to open ourselves to nature in an innocent and pure way. SHe in turn will open her bounty and reward us with many valuable secrets. May the earth bless you. - Michael Tierra


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OfflineSpiritualWarrior
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Re: I'm concerned about the existence of religion [Re: Peyote Road]
    #23931308 - 12/16/16 12:25 AM (7 years, 1 month ago)

Quote:

Peyote Road said:
Quote:

NHshroomerLR said:
Every morning when I wake up I'm put-off that I'm still here so having a distraction even though I don't believe in anything, helps alleviate my desire to not exist.




i also struggle with that desire to not exist. existence often feels like such a burden.




Its a burden if you don't have love inside, love of God or divine love. Pray man, keep praying. God is what prayer is.


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InvisibleGibbering_wreck
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Re: I'm concerned about the existence of religion [Re: SpiritualWarrior]
    #23931452 - 12/16/16 02:42 AM (7 years, 1 month ago)

Quote:

SpiritualWarrior said:
Quote:

Peyote Road said:
Quote:

NHshroomerLR said:
Every morning when I wake up I'm put-off that I'm still here so having a distraction even though I don't believe in anything, helps alleviate my desire to not exist.




i also struggle with that desire to not exist. existence often feels like such a burden.




Its a burden if you don't have love inside, love of God or divine love. Pray man, keep praying. God is what prayer is.



It's tough not feeling that divine spark. But yeah I keep doing what I can to "fake it till I make it" I'm happy more or less but deep down I have always felt empty and meaningless. Which I probably am.


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Invisiblehowsyournaggerdoin
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Re: I'm concerned about the existence of religion [Re: Gibbering_wreck]
    #23931472 - 12/16/16 03:15 AM (7 years, 1 month ago)

My only problem with religion is that IME most religious people are close minded and ignorant.


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Offlinesunshine
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Re: I'm concerned about the existence of religion [Re: howsyournaggerdoin]
    #23931782 - 12/16/16 09:12 AM (7 years, 1 month ago)

I like when Abraham is asked by god to sacrifice his son Isaac as a burnt offering.  Abraham is about to knife Isaac to death when god says he was just testing him.
I'm reading the bible cover to cover again.  I haven't read it in eight years and this is my first time reading a king james version with the old english.


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InvisibleThe Blind Ass
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Re: I'm concerned about the existence of religion [Re: sunshine]
    #23932492 - 12/16/16 01:25 PM (7 years, 1 month ago)

God - "Yo Abe, Kill your son dawg"

Abe - "...what?..."

God - " CMON MAN, it'll be metal as fuck, Satan has been pestering me, calling me a bitch, weak, etc..so I told him that you and I would ritually sacrifice our sons "

Abe - "o .. rly?.."

God - "yea dude, im like GOD"

Abe - "ok ..then.*raises knife*"

God - " JK LULZ "

Abe -  :pokerawe: 

God -  :iamderp:


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OfflineBloto
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Re: I'm concerned about the existence of religion [Re: The Blind Ass] * 1
    #23933768 - 12/16/16 09:35 PM (7 years, 1 month ago)

Ideally, we'd do with religion what we've done with smallpox. That is, eradicate that shit from the face of the Earth except for a small vial buried in a bio-proof safe under 25,000 tons of concrete and steel guarded by 10th degree coral belts armed with automatic grenade launchers. That way, if we ever need that shit (like to take down a rogue planet of jingoistic space invaders) it's at our disposal.

Everything good from religion can be found elsewhere without its attendant problems. Inspiration and art? Meet the humanities. Solace and understanding. Let me introduce you to philosophy and spirituality. Stories to read on a cold winter's night? Hello, literature. Communion and compassion? Fuck that, I don't like people anyway...but, really, if you only hang around with people who read and believe in the same book that's 3,500 or 2,000 or 1,400 years old, that's just fucking weird. We don't have people forming communities based on their love of The Decameron or Troilus and Criseyde.


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OfflineSpiritualWarrior
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Re: I'm concerned about the existence of religion [Re: Bloto]
    #23934190 - 12/17/16 12:57 AM (7 years, 1 month ago)

Quote:

Bloto said:
Ideally, we'd do with religion what we've done with smallpox. That is, eradicate that shit from the face of the Earth except for a small vial buried in a bio-proof safe under 25,000 tons of concrete and steel guarded by 10th degree coral belts armed with automatic grenade launchers. That way, if we ever need that shit (like to take down a rogue planet of jingoistic space invaders) it's at our disposal.

Everything good from religion can be found elsewhere without its attendant problems. Inspiration and art? Meet the humanities. Solace and understanding. Let me introduce you to philosophy and spirituality. Stories to read on a cold winter's night? Hello, literature. Communion and compassion? Fuck that, I don't like people anyway...but, really, if you only hang around with people who read and believe in the same book that's 3,500 or 2,000 or 1,400 years old, that's just fucking weird. We don't have people forming communities based on their love of The Decameron or Troilus and Criseyde.





A few good points but still can't tell me anything about this world, why it exists, where it is going and how to live in it without religion. You can call it a crutch if you like but its really more a crux and an axiom for being human on this earth. Without it i think we'd be robots or stick figure people. It can solve problems like why a person wakes up in the morning and asks why the fuck he exists instead of blowing his brains out. Plus it helps get through the hardship that there is here without problems or bitterness


Edited by SpiritualWarrior (12/17/16 12:59 AM)


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OfflineBloto
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Re: I'm concerned about the existence of religion [Re: SpiritualWarrior] * 1
    #23934715 - 12/17/16 07:47 AM (7 years, 1 month ago)

Quote:

SpiritualWarrior said:
Quote:

Bloto said:
Ideally, we'd do with religion what we've done with smallpox. That is, eradicate that shit from the face of the Earth except for a small vial buried in a bio-proof safe under 25,000 tons of concrete and steel guarded by 10th degree coral belts armed with automatic grenade launchers. That way, if we ever need that shit (like to take down a rogue planet of jingoistic space invaders) it's at our disposal.

Everything good from religion can be found elsewhere without its attendant problems. Inspiration and art? Meet the humanities. Solace and understanding. Let me introduce you to philosophy and spirituality. Stories to read on a cold winter's night? Hello, literature. Communion and compassion? Fuck that, I don't like people anyway...but, really, if you only hang around with people who read and believe in the same book that's 3,500 or 2,000 or 1,400 years old, that's just fucking weird. We don't have people forming communities based on their love of The Decameron or Troilus and Criseyde.





A few good points but still can't tell me anything about this world, why it exists, where it is going and how to live in it without religion. You can call it a crutch if you like but its really more a crux and an axiom for being human on this earth. Without it i think we'd be robots or stick figure people. It can solve problems like why a person wakes up in the morning and asks why the fuck he exists instead of blowing his brains out. Plus it helps get through the hardship that there is here without problems or bitterness




I'm glad religion gives you solace, man. And, honestly, so long as religion doesn't encroach on the rights and prerogatives of others, I don't really care about it in any practical sense. The problem, of course, is that it never keeps to itself. That's when the hairs on the back of my neck stick up. I can't buy beer on Sunday because of your imaginary friend? Fuck you. (Not you personally - I'm just making points here.)

Surely, though, you don't mean what you said about religion being the only thing that can "tell me anything about this world, why it exists, where it is going and how to live..." That's just silly.

The various disciplines of science have told us more about "this world" than religion could ever aspire to. You can chose to ignore it, but that doesn't change the fact science has identified, described, explained, and even summarized more about the universe than you or I could consume in 1,000 lifetimes.

"Why" questions, especially those so broad as "why the world exists," are admittedly more difficult but philosophy addresses it in context of the weak/strong anthropomorphic principle. That may prove the confines of how far we can understand "why." Or not. That's the beautiful thing about scientific theory - it's not beholden to what Jebus or Binky or L. Ron Hubbard said years ago - it craves more knowledge and adapts to conform.

Science also hypothesizes about where the world is going. It's pretty well settled the Earth (if we don't obliterate it before) will be consumed by the sun's expansion. Observations a few years ago showed the universe's rate of expansion is accelerating. From that, some have hypothesized the universe ends in a cold and impossibly distant expanse. If you mean where humans are going, please see the social sciences.

Lastly, how to live. The question presupposes an objective answer that likely isn't there. It's a personal choice, of course, and there are philosophical, spiritual, social, and practical sources for that. And I presume you don't strictly adhere to how the abrahamic scriptures say to live your life - if you do, you're a damned savage.


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Re: I'm concerned about the existence of religion [Re: SpiritualWarrior]
    #23934796 - 12/17/16 08:42 AM (7 years, 1 month ago)

Quote:

SpiritualWarrior said:
Quote:

Bloto said:
Ideally, we'd do with religion what we've done with smallpox. That is, eradicate that shit from the face of the Earth except for a small vial buried in a bio-proof safe under 25,000 tons of concrete and steel guarded by 10th degree coral belts armed with automatic grenade launchers. That way, if we ever need that shit (like to take down a rogue planet of jingoistic space invaders) it's at our disposal.

Everything good from religion can be found elsewhere without its attendant problems. Inspiration and art? Meet the humanities. Solace and understanding. Let me introduce you to philosophy and spirituality. Stories to read on a cold winter's night? Hello, literature. Communion and compassion? Fuck that, I don't like people anyway...but, really, if you only hang around with people who read and believe in the same book that's 3,500 or 2,000 or 1,400 years old, that's just fucking weird. We don't have people forming communities based on their love of The Decameron or Troilus and Criseyde.





A few good points but still can't tell me anything about this world, why it exists, where it is going and how to live in it without religion. You can call it a crutch if you like but its really more a crux and an axiom for being human on this earth. Without it i think we'd be robots or stick figure people. It can solve problems like why a person wakes up in the morning and asks why the fuck he exists instead of blowing his brains out. Plus it helps get through the hardship that there is here without problems or bitterness





I'm against religion for so many different reasons, but the biggest one being that I think it teaches people to be ok with not understanding the world. 

And another thing I hate about religion is that it get's introduced to children at such an early age, essentially brainwashing them.  Children (or just people in fucking general) should be thought how to think, not what to think.  Imagine if it was against the law to introduce religion to someone before their 18th birthday.  What do you think would happen to religion then?  It would be gone within a generation or two at the most.


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Offlineviktor
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Re: I'm concerned about the existence of religion [Re: Peyote Road] * 1
    #23939150 - 12/18/16 08:44 PM (7 years, 1 month ago)

Quote:

Peyote Road said:
I'd argue that many concepts in religion like the Buddhist concept of no self, don't exactly go very far to relieve the average person's death anxiety.




I don't know if you really got the concept of no self too well... for me it shattered my death anxiety because I stopped identifying with my body and mind, which I know must die, and started identifying with consciousness, which I know to be eternal.


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"They consider me insane but I know that I am a hero living under the eyes of the gods."


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OfflinePeyote Road
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Re: I'm concerned about the existence of religion [Re: viktor]
    #23939530 - 12/19/16 12:10 AM (7 years, 1 month ago)

Quote:

viktor said:
Quote:

Peyote Road said:
I'd argue that many concepts in religion like the Buddhist concept of no self, don't exactly go very far to relieve the average person's death anxiety.




I don't know if you really got the concept of no self too well... for me it shattered my death anxiety because I stopped identifying with my body and mind, which I know must die, and started identifying with consciousness, which I know to be eternal.





Yes but the transition from being heavily identified with the body and the egoic mind, to identification with consciousness is what your average person finds frightening. Did you not find the switch from identifying with your body and mind to identifying with consciousness frightening? I can only speak for myself but I have found the shedding of the old self to be extremely distressing at times.


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The path of the herbalist is to open ourselves to nature in an innocent and pure way. SHe in turn will open her bounty and reward us with many valuable secrets. May the earth bless you. - Michael Tierra


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OfflinePeyote Road
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Re: I'm concerned about the existence of religion [Re: Peyote Road]
    #23939543 - 12/19/16 12:21 AM (7 years, 1 month ago)

Quote:


I'm against religion for so many different reasons, but the biggest one being that I think it teaches people to be ok with not understanding the world. 




That's true. One of my favorite preachers, who goes by the name of Bertie Brits said that one of the worst things to happen to Christianity is that the church became stupid. The people who wrote the new testament were most likely at the forefront of understanding the world and the human psyche in their time. Now your average Christian is expected to shut out/ignore any information that conflicts with the "official story" his church gives, as though it is a political party rather than a spiritual teaching.


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The path of the herbalist is to open ourselves to nature in an innocent and pure way. SHe in turn will open her bounty and reward us with many valuable secrets. May the earth bless you. - Michael Tierra


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Offlineviktor
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Re: I'm concerned about the existence of religion [Re: Peyote Road] * 1
    #23939597 - 12/19/16 01:19 AM (7 years, 1 month ago)

Quote:

Peyote Road said:
Quote:

viktor said:
Quote:

Peyote Road said:
I'd argue that many concepts in religion like the Buddhist concept of no self, don't exactly go very far to relieve the average person's death anxiety.




I don't know if you really got the concept of no self too well... for me it shattered my death anxiety because I stopped identifying with my body and mind, which I know must die, and started identifying with consciousness, which I know to be eternal.





Yes but the transition from being heavily identified with the body and the egoic mind, to identification with consciousness is what your average person finds frightening. Did you not find the switch from identifying with your body and mind to identifying with consciousness frightening? I can only speak for myself but I have found the shedding of the old self to be extremely distressing at times.




Yes, I agree with you here and see what you mean. I think there is less anxiety in the long term - but, you are right, getting to that state requires confronting some massive truths, which is generally unsettling.


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"They consider me insane but I know that I am a hero living under the eyes of the gods."


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Re: I'm concerned about the existence of religion [Re: sunshine]
    #23939670 - 12/19/16 02:46 AM (7 years, 1 month ago)

He he - that very thread is open in my other tab. Synchronicity?


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"They consider me insane but I know that I am a hero living under the eyes of the gods."


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Offlinecrkhd
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Re: I'm concerned about the existence of religion [Re: viktor]
    #23948110 - 12/22/16 04:28 AM (7 years, 1 month ago)

الله
Deen (Oneness)
The Lie


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"Everything there is, and all that there is, is a Pattern of unspeakable proportion. The Pattern contains everything that is, completely fixed in succession, all the minimal particles interconnected in every way that is. Every way that is is not every conceivable way, because not everything that can be conceived is manifest in the pattern."

"THE Human, you, is a miniscule but essential part of that pattern. In it lies complete fulfillment. It will never become something it is not, but it will never need to be anything else." - Wiccan_Seeker

"If boring drudgery was the way of the universe, everything would have killed itself long ago." - Spacerific


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OfflineParadigm Shift
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Re: I'm concerned about the existence of religion [Re: sunshine]
    #23958016 - 12/26/16 10:26 AM (7 years, 1 month ago)

Theres humans looking to others to tell them what to believe.  They usually get done over.

Then theres humans who realise its a spiritual free for all and decide for themselves what to think.

Religion is just the ass that realises it and uses it to their personal advantage.  This is being replaced now by government though.  People always want someone else to tell them how to act and what to do. 

Thats how fasion and social status works.  It used to be ruled by religion but now everyone wants big brother to tell them instead.  Government has become the new religion.  Its all the same mind set though.  One of looking for a parental figure.

Others realise we are all soveriegn but don't use it for personal gain.  Thats why truth gets hidden.  If you don't want to gain from knowing we are all god/devil (one) then how can you tell anyone else thats looking for some group authority that it is in fact inside them already!?

At core the message of all the mahor religions was the same but it then gets twisted and corrupted by people that don't get the message completely.  Its about being 100% selfless and ego less because we are all the same being.  Only the thinking mind creates incorrect beliefs that seperate us. 

As soon as this happens people become afraid and eventually fight.  We've been collectively transcending this.  It is the plight of humans but a battle we all face internally.  It is something only the ape with the over thinking mind can create.  Other creatures do not do this because they have not deveolped the brain to the point we have now where the animal mind of ego and emotion and rational intelligence and knowing are battling it out.  It slowly gets less violent as we learn to accept what we are and take responsability.


Edited by Paradigm Shift (12/26/16 10:40 AM)


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Invisiblesudly
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Re: I'm concerned about the existence of religion [Re: sunshine]
    #23959651 - 12/27/16 01:36 AM (7 years, 1 month ago)

Don't be, sentience can't exist without matter.


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I am whatever Darwin needs me to be.



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