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KauaiOrca
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Registered: 08/12/08
Posts: 3,131
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Is RGS more contamination resistant than ... ???
#23923751 - 12/13/16 06:31 PM (7 years, 1 month ago) |
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I've found that since I switched to RGS as my grain of choice, I never get contamination problems anymore. Don't think I'm being more cautious with sterile precautions and, in fact, I may be getting more lax in some ways because of how little a problem it has become.
I'm curious, does anyone know if RGS or any other grain has a tendency to be less likely to contaminate? Or are they all about the same?
-------------------- "The universe is endless, limitless and infinite. Any effort to define it's boundaries is an attempt to overcome ignorance. We are physical, mental and spiritual beings ... there is no beginning and there is no end. There is only memory. Our repeated loss of memory experiences create the illusion of beginnings and ends. Immortality is the ability to retain full memory through all consciousness transformations. Loss of memory is man's greatest curse and, in very real terms, death." -- Ancient Taoist Master
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Mad Season
hookers and blackjack



Registered: 09/16/12
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Re: Is RGS more contamination resistant than ... ??? [Re: KauaiOrca] 1
#23924508 - 12/13/16 10:20 PM (7 years, 1 month ago) |
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Any grains treated with endospores is a bitch and a half to get clean. Different brands/grains/sources might not have any endospore treatment, depending on your area rgs might be better, or wbs, or oats, or idfk any grain really lol
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tump
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Re: Is RGS more contamination resistant than ... ??? [Re: Mad Season]
#23924532 - 12/13/16 10:29 PM (7 years, 1 month ago) |
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Yes i know that nothing will contaminate more then whole corn with bacterial issues. Oats, wheat. Wbs abd rye barries, millet all about the same with molds and yeast. Mad season is right its all brand and process based. Your grass seed might be clean since its meant for planting instead of feed.
P.s. if your stuck with corn do 3 hours at psi. Much better
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Intelligentxfruit2



Registered: 12/02/16
Posts: 50
Loc: In a tree somewhere
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Re: Is RGS more contamination resistant than ... ??? [Re: tump]
#23924701 - 12/14/16 12:06 AM (7 years, 1 month ago) |
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I exclusively use whole corn when I can get it on sale haha
mad season nailed it though
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tump
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Quote:
Intelligentxfruit2 said: I exclusively use whole corn when I can get it on sale haha
mad season nailed it though
Why whole corn. Cracked corn for the win. I've tryed most typles of spawn then 90% + of users on here. Including beans, cardboard, coffee beans, poppy seeds, all grains, fruit pits, nuts, dog food, cut up potatoes, many other seeds pumpkin, peppers, kale, plus more. Whole corn was the crappy grain its cost 5 cents a pound is nice but nothing else. Cracked corn was my go to grain at 5.5 cents a pound. Ive been. Through more then 250 bags of 50lbs before i switched. Its not shakeble but has the most knock points of any grain and Yeild is on par with the others. So op good luck with grass seed always be sterile when you relacks its when you contam a 100 jars.
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Intelligentxfruit2



Registered: 12/02/16
Posts: 50
Loc: In a tree somewhere
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Re: Is RGS more contamination resistant than ... ??? [Re: tump]
#23924807 - 12/14/16 01:10 AM (7 years, 1 month ago) |
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The rate it colonizes and when I can get it for cheaper than dirt theres no reason why not to use it. The colonization rate has to do with the surface area of the whole popcorn I believe
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tump
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Nope amount of set points that myc divide and recover. With whole corn is so few points. Im sure with slurry method of inoculate the spawn typle doesn't matter but with spores, lc or wedge it takes a dick year to colonised time and g2g is horrible. Rye grass seed actually is the best g2g ive done speed with even more then millet. Pictures of your spawn op and you. Intelligent fruit. Im sure op is twice as fast.
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Intelligentxfruit2



Registered: 12/02/16
Posts: 50
Loc: In a tree somewhere
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Re: Is RGS more contamination resistant than ... ??? [Re: tump]
#23924919 - 12/14/16 03:13 AM (7 years, 1 month ago) |
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lol no thanks buddy
have you even tried corn? people give it a bad rep but I rarely have problems. never did I say corn was the best grain, just pointed out its advantages I've noticed.
why the call out?
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tump
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Because cracked corn if the bomb and i found whole corn to lacking. I have tried one 100lbs of it. Im always open to any advantages one spawn has to another. I just don't see any thats the call out.
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KauaiOrca
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Registered: 08/12/08
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Re: Is RGS more contamination resistant than ... ??? [Re: tump]
#23924955 - 12/14/16 04:34 AM (7 years, 1 month ago) |
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If you just grow in zip-loc jars and want a dead simple, have to be an idiot to screw it up method with just grain and some verm casing, RGS is tough to beat. Actually, don't really need the verm, but it keeps the top from drying out too quickly. No formula, no mixing... boil, drain, stuff, inoc and wait ... no fruiting chamber needed either.
Can't speak to yield, but if you're not an industrial grower, what difference does it make? Here, we get RGS for $15 / 50lb bag ... which will grow exactly 1.7324 bazillion fruits.
-------------------- "The universe is endless, limitless and infinite. Any effort to define it's boundaries is an attempt to overcome ignorance. We are physical, mental and spiritual beings ... there is no beginning and there is no end. There is only memory. Our repeated loss of memory experiences create the illusion of beginnings and ends. Immortality is the ability to retain full memory through all consciousness transformations. Loss of memory is man's greatest curse and, in very real terms, death." -- Ancient Taoist Master
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KauaiOrca
Waterman


Registered: 08/12/08
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Re: Is RGS more contamination resistant than ... ??? [Re: tump]
#23924959 - 12/14/16 04:39 AM (7 years, 1 month ago) |
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Quote:
tump said:
Quote:
Intelligentxfruit2 said: I exclusively use whole corn when I can get it on sale haha
mad season nailed it though
Why whole corn. Cracked corn for the win. I've tryed most typles of spawn then 90% + of users on here. Including beans, cardboard, coffee beans, poppy seeds, all grains, fruit pits, nuts, dog food, cut up potatoes, many other seeds pumpkin, peppers, kale, plus more. Whole corn was the crappy grain its cost 5 cents a pound is nice but nothing else. Cracked corn was my go to grain at 5.5 cents a pound. Ive been. Through more then 250 bags of 50lbs before i switched. Its not shakeble but has the most knock points of any grain and Yeild is on par with the others. So op good luck with grass seed always be sterile when you relacks its when you contam a 100 jars.
Thanks for that. I may try cracked corn. Never tried it before. Brown rice is good too for zip loc jars but moisture's a little trickier. You really can't screw up the moisture with RGS even if you try.
-------------------- "The universe is endless, limitless and infinite. Any effort to define it's boundaries is an attempt to overcome ignorance. We are physical, mental and spiritual beings ... there is no beginning and there is no end. There is only memory. Our repeated loss of memory experiences create the illusion of beginnings and ends. Immortality is the ability to retain full memory through all consciousness transformations. Loss of memory is man's greatest curse and, in very real terms, death." -- Ancient Taoist Master
Edited by KauaiOrca (12/14/16 05:03 AM)
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Pastywhyte
Say hello to my little friend



Registered: 09/15/12
Posts: 37,810
Loc: Canada
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Re: Is RGS more contamination resistant than ... ??? [Re: KauaiOrca]
#23924970 - 12/14/16 04:56 AM (7 years, 1 month ago) |
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Corn is garbage. I have noticed a lower yield with it and aside from higher endospore populations and next to no inoculation power, it's got very little nutrition compared to grains like rye wheat or millet. Plus cracked corn is nothing but spilled starch waiting to happen and we all know what spilled starch in your spawn turns into (bacteria food).
Tump doesn't your big government grant allow you to buy a better quality grain?
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Intelligentxfruit2



Registered: 12/02/16
Posts: 50
Loc: In a tree somewhere
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Re: Is RGS more contamination resistant than ... ??? [Re: Pastywhyte]
#23924983 - 12/14/16 05:04 AM (7 years, 1 month ago) |
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I've never understood the hate for corn, my yields have never notably suffered. This is making me want to do a side by side write up Maybe just straight cased grains you could see a difference but still for the price you can't beat it 
can't believe tump has a government grant, seems like a troll
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tump
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Re: Is RGS more contamination resistant than ... ??? [Re: Pastywhyte]
#23924995 - 12/14/16 05:13 AM (7 years, 1 month ago) |
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Pasty i switch to better grains but cracked corn yields fine. You have to cook it longer but still work it if you aren't needing to shake your grain. If i could ever pay $15 dallors for 50lbs of rgs id stock up. Also personal grows and not personal funding is different. I personally use oats or wheat now because of price. All grain prep is easy with practice so that should never be a issue. Never use most grains for bottle teks just spawning to bulk. Op should share the buying love.
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Pastywhyte
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Registered: 09/15/12
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Maybe you don't think your yeild suffered but I assure you in a side by side comparison with controlled genetics corn loses. It simply doesn't have nearly as much nutrition by volume.
Tump has a grant from the US government to conduct a study on cubes. At least that is his claim.
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KauaiOrca
Waterman


Registered: 08/12/08
Posts: 3,131
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Re: Is RGS more contamination resistant than ... ??? [Re: tump]
#23925002 - 12/14/16 05:18 AM (7 years, 1 month ago) |
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Quote:
tump said: Pasty i switch to better grains but cracked corn yields fine. You have to cook it longer but still work it if you aren't needing to shake your grain. If i could ever pay $15 dallors for 50lbs of rgs id stock up. Also personal grows and not personal funding is different. I personally use oats or wheat now because of price. All grain prep is easy with practice so that should never be a issue. Never use most grains for bottle teks just spawning to bulk. Op should share the buying love.
Central Oregon at several aggriculture suppliers it's cheap. Price varies and I bought this bag (still have half of it) about 1 1/2 years ago. I think they grow a lot of it here, so it's cheap. It's got to be the ultimate grain for growing invitro jars. Set and totally forget until it starts pinning. The bottom watering technique is like magic.
-------------------- "The universe is endless, limitless and infinite. Any effort to define it's boundaries is an attempt to overcome ignorance. We are physical, mental and spiritual beings ... there is no beginning and there is no end. There is only memory. Our repeated loss of memory experiences create the illusion of beginnings and ends. Immortality is the ability to retain full memory through all consciousness transformations. Loss of memory is man's greatest curse and, in very real terms, death." -- Ancient Taoist Master
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Pastywhyte
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Registered: 09/15/12
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Re: Is RGS more contamination resistant than ... ??? [Re: tump]
#23925010 - 12/14/16 05:21 AM (7 years, 1 month ago) |
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Quote:
tump said: Pasty i switch to better grains but cracked corn yields fine. You have to cook it longer but still work it if you aren't needing to shake your grain. If i could ever pay $15 dallors for 50lbs of rgs id stock up. Also personal grows and not personal funding is different. I personally use oats or wheat now because of price. All grain prep is easy with practice so that should never be a issue. Never use most grains for bottle teks just spawning to bulk. Op should share the buying love.
If your premise is that using cracked corn is the best bang for your buck in a bottle grow then you need to try my straw method. It's just straw and whole wheat flour. Costs about 0.25 in materials per bottle and pumps out many flushes with high BE. In fact my straw bottles have yielded the highest BE of any method I have tried yet.
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KauaiOrca
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Re: Is RGS more contamination resistant than ... ??? [Re: Pastywhyte]
#23925020 - 12/14/16 05:31 AM (7 years, 1 month ago) |
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Quote:
Pastywhyte said:
Quote:
tump said: Pasty i switch to better grains but cracked corn yields fine. You have to cook it longer but still work it if you aren't needing to shake your grain. If i could ever pay $15 dallors for 50lbs of rgs id stock up. Also personal grows and not personal funding is different. I personally use oats or wheat now because of price. All grain prep is easy with practice so that should never be a issue. Never use most grains for bottle teks just spawning to bulk. Op should share the buying love.
If your premise is that using cracked corn is the best bang for your buck in a bottle grow then you need to try my straw method. It's just straw and whole wheat flour. Costs about 0.25 in materials per bottle and pumps out many flushes with high BE. In fact my straw bottles have yielded the highest BE of any method I have tried yet.

P - What sized plastic bottles are those that fit on your zip-loc jars? I ended up making my own "hoods" but that's way better. To they fit perfectly or did you have to do something to them?
-------------------- "The universe is endless, limitless and infinite. Any effort to define it's boundaries is an attempt to overcome ignorance. We are physical, mental and spiritual beings ... there is no beginning and there is no end. There is only memory. Our repeated loss of memory experiences create the illusion of beginnings and ends. Immortality is the ability to retain full memory through all consciousness transformations. Loss of memory is man's greatest curse and, in very real terms, death." -- Ancient Taoist Master
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tump
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Re: Is RGS more contamination resistant than ... ??? [Re: KauaiOrca]
#23925028 - 12/14/16 05:49 AM (7 years, 1 month ago) |
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Never even used corn for bottle tek pasty only wheat, oats, flours. Ive tried all the grains or seeds much earlier then your tek. Straw is a good food source and your bottles are great. But are you really saying that if corn is 5.5 cents a lb and that oats are 14 cents a lb that your Yeild in bulk would be 254% better?
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ComebackKid
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Re: Is RGS more contamination resistant than ... ??? [Re: KauaiOrca]
#23925030 - 12/14/16 05:50 AM (7 years, 1 month ago) |
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They look like regular 2L coke bottles
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Substrate surface conditions / Monotub prep and care
Look around you... Everything you see exists inside the mind. Consciousness, the awareness that is experiencing this mind, is peering in from outside the universe. Our individual experiences are all part of the universe's experience of itself
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Intelligentxfruit2



Registered: 12/02/16
Posts: 50
Loc: In a tree somewhere
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Re: Is RGS more contamination resistant than ... ??? [Re: KauaiOrca]
#23925034 - 12/14/16 05:54 AM (7 years, 1 month ago) |
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I've never actually done controlled experiments on spawn, only with substrates. I wish I kept better records to try and look back but theres no way.
Corn is less nutritious so I'm sure you're right. I think I might start a log here soon tracking yeild weights of different grains Not that it hasn't been done but it'll give me a reason to change things up
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Pastywhyte
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Registered: 09/15/12
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Re: Is RGS more contamination resistant than ... ??? [Re: tump]
#23925066 - 12/14/16 06:21 AM (7 years, 1 month ago) |
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Quote:
tump said: Never even used corn for bottle tek pasty only wheat, oats, flours. Ive tried all the grains or seeds much earlier then your tek. Straw is a good food source and your bottles are great. But are you really saying that if corn is 5.5 cents a lb and that oats are 14 cents a lb that your Yeild in bulk would be 254% better?
Tump what I'm saying is that I simply don't believe any of the gibberish you spout. Show me a grow. Period. If I thought you could even produce a yield this conversation might go somewhere. But if a person can't even achieve 100% BE with any grain, why debate the merits of one over the other.
End of day is cracked corn = bacteria. Corn = far less surface area by volume and less mycelium, less nock points, and less real nutrition.
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AK1000
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Re: Is RGS more contamination resistant than ... ??? [Re: KauaiOrca]
#23925271 - 12/14/16 08:54 AM (7 years, 1 month ago) |
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Quote:
KauaiOrca said: I've found that since I switched to RGS as my grain of choice, I never get contamination problems anymore. Don't think I'm being more cautious with sterile precautions and, in fact, I may be getting more lax in some ways because of how little a problem it has become.
I'm curious, does anyone know if RGS or any other grain has a tendency to be less likely to contaminate? Or are they all about the same?
I haven't seen a difference between bottles that were purely RGS and bottles that were a mix of wheat/oats/wheatbran/coffee/gypsum/verm/coir (a la coir based bottle tek)... It's nearly 100% (if not 100%) success rate if I'm not an idiot during the inoculation process. I PC them at 15psi for at least 2 hours... sometimes 2.5 hours cause I'm high, lol.
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KauaiOrca
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Re: Is RGS more contamination resistant than ... ??? [Re: AK1000]
#23925320 - 12/14/16 09:19 AM (7 years, 1 month ago) |
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Amazing to me how many threads ultimately end up in the "my grow's bigger, better and more bad-ass than yours is and I can prove it" zone. Quote:
AK1000 said:
Quote:
KauaiOrca said: I've found that since I switched to RGS as my grain of choice, I never get contamination problems anymore. Don't think I'm being more cautious with sterile precautions and, in fact, I may be getting more lax in some ways because of how little a problem it has become.
I'm curious, does anyone know if RGS or any other grain has a tendency to be less likely to contaminate? Or are they all about the same?
I haven't seen a difference between bottles that were purely RGS and bottles that were a mix of wheat/oats/wheatbran/coffee/gypsum/verm/coir (a la coir based bottle tek)... It's nearly 100% (if not 100%) success rate if I'm not an idiot during the inoculation process. I PC them at 15psi for at least 2 hours... sometimes 2.5 hours cause I'm high, lol.
WOW! I rarely PC grain jars for longer than 45 minutes. If I'm doing a big bulky grain bag, maybe 60-70 minutes tops.
I do, however rolling boil for a solid 30 minutes and steep them for another thirty before I drain and load the jars. I'm not sure how much that kills undesirables, but I would suspect it helps somewhat.
-------------------- "The universe is endless, limitless and infinite. Any effort to define it's boundaries is an attempt to overcome ignorance. We are physical, mental and spiritual beings ... there is no beginning and there is no end. There is only memory. Our repeated loss of memory experiences create the illusion of beginnings and ends. Immortality is the ability to retain full memory through all consciousness transformations. Loss of memory is man's greatest curse and, in very real terms, death." -- Ancient Taoist Master
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Pastywhyte
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Registered: 09/15/12
Posts: 37,810
Loc: Canada
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Re: Is RGS more contamination resistant than ... ??? [Re: KauaiOrca]
#23925417 - 12/14/16 10:01 AM (7 years, 1 month ago) |
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Quote:
KauaiOrca said: Amazing to me how many threads ultimately end up in the "my grow's bigger, better and more bad-ass than yours is and I can prove it" zone.
That's because people make all kinds of claims with no basis to do so. Tump hasn't posted a successful grow but has posted lots of fail. He also claims he has a US government grant to grow cubes. If you want to believe his line of crap go ahead. I'm more concerned about the people who lurk who might consider his line of BS.
Peer review is everything in science. Prove your claims.
Also 45 min is your PC time? No wonder your contam issues seemed to disappear with RGS.
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Mad Season
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Re: Is RGS more contamination resistant than ... ??? [Re: Pastywhyte]
#23925444 - 12/14/16 10:16 AM (7 years, 1 month ago) |
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Lol pulled right from TMC. I do minimum 2 hours on every grain.
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AK1000
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Re: Is RGS more contamination resistant than ... ??? [Re: KauaiOrca]
#23925719 - 12/14/16 11:50 AM (7 years, 1 month ago) |
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Quote:
KauaiOrca said: WOW! I rarely PC grain jars for longer than 45 minutes. If I'm doing a big bulky grain bag, maybe 60-70 minutes tops.
Dude... I'm guessing your RGS is doing better because it's such a smaller seed that the 45 minutes was enough to sterilize it... but other grains, like oats or whatever which are slightly larger... everywhere I've read says it should be done for 90-120 minutes, more the merrier. I let it slide to at least 2 hours.
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KauaiOrca
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Re: Is RGS more contamination resistant than ... ??? [Re: AK1000]
#23926312 - 12/14/16 02:43 PM (7 years, 1 month ago) |
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Quote:
AK1000 said:
Dude... I'm guessing your RGS is doing better because it's such a smaller seed that the 45 minutes was enough to sterilize it... but other grains, like oats or whatever which are slightly larger... everywhere I've read says it should be done for 90-120 minutes, more the merrier. I let it slide to at least 2 hours.
The only three grains I've used are WBS, Brown Rice and RGS. And I used wheat berries for Schlerotia a couple of times ... I've never really had a lot of contamination problems with grain, but I dropped my PC times primarily because I moved to jars opposed to grain bags and read in one of the teks that it didn't take as long. The contam problems I did have I think probably traced back to an LC that somehow got infected, but other than that, not that much. I have never gone substrate>bulk though as never had need for that level of production. It's mind boggling the level of production some of the growers take it to.
-------------------- "The universe is endless, limitless and infinite. Any effort to define it's boundaries is an attempt to overcome ignorance. We are physical, mental and spiritual beings ... there is no beginning and there is no end. There is only memory. Our repeated loss of memory experiences create the illusion of beginnings and ends. Immortality is the ability to retain full memory through all consciousness transformations. Loss of memory is man's greatest curse and, in very real terms, death." -- Ancient Taoist Master
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Pastywhyte
Say hello to my little friend



Registered: 09/15/12
Posts: 37,810
Loc: Canada
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Re: Is RGS more contamination resistant than ... ??? [Re: KauaiOrca]
#23926421 - 12/14/16 03:03 PM (7 years, 1 month ago) |
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If you never spawned to bulk that why you haven't had issues with cereal grains with such short cycles. Rice has low to no endospore populations and millets small size is a bit more forgiving. But the real reason is that the unbroken colony means that bacteria harbored in it will not be able to become a mold vector. Cased grain methods like V tek, where a shake later on in the expansion is not incorporated, are very forgiving of poor sterilization logs. But that same grain used as spawn will often result in mold when spawned in open air.
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KauaiOrca
Waterman


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Re: Is RGS more contamination resistant than ... ??? [Re: Pastywhyte]
#23926461 - 12/14/16 03:15 PM (7 years, 1 month ago) |
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Quote:
Pastywhyte said: If you never spawned to bulk that why you haven't had issues with cereal grains with such short cycles. Rice has low to no endospore populations and millets small size is a bit more forgiving. But the real reason is that the unbroken colony means that bacteria harbored in it will not be able to become a mold vector. Cased grain methods like V tek, where a shake later on in the expansion is not incorporated, are very forgiving of poor sterilization logs. But that same grain used as spawn will often result in mold when spawned in open air.
Pasty - Really appreciate all your helpful posts ... You are an incredible wealth of knowledge.
I tried the "clone water" (syringe into a stem then suck it back out) idea and it's got a nice healthy looking culture going that I'm going to G2G in probably 3-4 days. I'm going to try it with three separate stems ... the short and fat ones are the best ... and see what happens. So far, doesn't look like contams have surfaced, but too early to tell. The initial growth was good and fairly fast, though.
-------------------- "The universe is endless, limitless and infinite. Any effort to define it's boundaries is an attempt to overcome ignorance. We are physical, mental and spiritual beings ... there is no beginning and there is no end. There is only memory. Our repeated loss of memory experiences create the illusion of beginnings and ends. Immortality is the ability to retain full memory through all consciousness transformations. Loss of memory is man's greatest curse and, in very real terms, death." -- Ancient Taoist Master
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Intelligentxfruit2



Registered: 12/02/16
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Loc: In a tree somewhere
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Re: Is RGS more contamination resistant than ... ??? [Re: KauaiOrca]
#23928077 - 12/14/16 11:47 PM (7 years, 1 month ago) |
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Yeah pasty killing it as always, one day man, one day.
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The_breadsticks
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Re: Is RGS more contamination resistant than ... ??? [Re: Pastywhyte]
#23929644 - 12/15/16 02:46 PM (7 years, 1 month ago) |
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Quote:
Pastywhyte said:
Quote:
tump said: Never even used corn for bottle tek pasty only wheat, oats, flours. Ive tried all the grains or seeds much earlier then your tek. Straw is a good food source and your bottles are great. But are you really saying that if corn is 5.5 cents a lb and that oats are 14 cents a lb that your Yeild in bulk would be 254% better?
Tump what I'm saying is that I simply don't believe any of the gibberish you spout. Show me a grow. Period. If I thought you could even produce a yield this conversation might go somewhere. But if a person can't even achieve 100% BE with any grain, why debate the merits of one over the other.
End of day is cracked corn = bacteria. Corn = far less surface area by volume and less mycelium, less nock points, and less real nutrition.
Hey pasty, what's BE?
BTW, thank you for all the help and info youve posted.
-------------------- FREE TUMP
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AK1000
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Re: Is RGS more contamination resistant than ... ??? [Re: The_breadsticks]
#23929714 - 12/15/16 03:06 PM (7 years, 1 month ago) |
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Quote:
The_breadsticks said: Hey pasty, what's BE?
Biological Efficiency = Yield of Fresh Mushrooms ________________________________________ x 100 Total weight of dry substrate used
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