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InvisiblebodhisattaMDiscordReddit
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Bod's BRF AGAR how to and "test" results * 15
    #23922599 - 12/13/16 01:01 PM (6 years, 3 months ago)

3 strengths of BRF agar were made
The recipe is
400grams(mL) water
9g agar-agar (telephone brand)
and then
2/4/6 grams of BRF

that's
2.25% agar-agar
and 0.5/1.0/1.5 % BRF
and some food coloring to try to make the low medium and high light medium and dark. This didn't work that well so next time I'll use three different colors like green yellow and red or something

First I boil water and get a media bottle ready with small funnel put in the top

(media bottle)

I weigh out the 9g agar and the BRF then pour it in the funnel, then pour in boiling water until I reach a hair over the 400mL mark

I then stir and put the cap on then loosen the cap 1/8th turn

then into the pressure cooker without foil on the lids(just my style do it your way)

I PC the BRF agar for 25 minutes at 15 psi(but I run mine at 17-18). There is sediment I don't worry about it but I do like to PC longer than necessary because of it.

https://www.shroomery.org/forums/showflat.php/Number/21922023
that's my agar tek if you need supplemental information about how to prepare and use agar

and here's even more agar resources
https://www.shroomery.org/forums/showflat.php/Number/22721954/vc/1#22721954




I got 17 of the 0.5% 18 of the 1.0% and 1.5%

I put PEU, Treasure Coast, Golden Teacher, and Pan Cyan spores to three plates of each strength for (4x3x3)=36 plates to test





the pans germinated first, with nearly equal performance across all the BRF strengths. dec-7 to dec-13, 6 days for growth

UPDATE 12/16:





Pans are obviously doing best on the strongest BRF agar.


golden teachers also just started to germinate, with the 1.5% being the winner, as the 0.5% and 1.0% haven't yet to germinate

UPDATE 12/16


GTs are doing the best on the highest strength agar as well

no signs of life from the TC and PEU yet

UPDATE 12/16
some life from the TC but no life from the PEU yet








here's another small test
all from the same donor ESS plate three wedges were taken each went to a different strength BRF agar
the 1.5% being clearly the strongest recovery.

UPDATE 12/16




clearly doing best on the 1.5%


Edited by bodhisatta (12/16/16 04:19 PM)


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Re: Bod's BRF AGAR how to and "test" results [Re: bodhisatta] * 2
    #23922614 - 12/13/16 01:06 PM (6 years, 3 months ago)

:takingnotes:

ive been wanting to try brf agar. thanks for the motivation :cheers:


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Re: Bod's BRF AGAR how to and "test" results [Re: mushboy] * 2
    #23922628 - 12/13/16 01:11 PM (6 years, 3 months ago)

I did that last summer with good results :thumbup:


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Re: Bod's BRF AGAR how to and "test" results [Re: spirit_shadow] * 3
    #23922633 - 12/13/16 01:13 PM (6 years, 3 months ago)

I've used BRF agar years now but I never really made a thread or compared any of the strengths I usually use to see if there's a performance difference


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Re: Bod's BRF AGAR how to and "test" results [Re: bodhisatta] * 1
    #23922655 - 12/13/16 01:18 PM (6 years, 3 months ago)

Quote:

bodhisatta said:
I've used BRF agar years now but I never really made a thread or compared any of the strengths I usually use to see if there's a performance difference



Lol yeah I only used it just cos I had so much I literally didnt know what to do with it. Good write up though :kaneclap:


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Re: Bod's BRF AGAR how to and "test" results [Re: spirit_shadow] * 1
    #23922675 - 12/13/16 01:24 PM (6 years, 3 months ago)

Sweet test!  Already seeing results too!


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Re: Bod's BRF AGAR how to and "test" results [Re: Mycolorado] * 2
    #23922680 - 12/13/16 01:25 PM (6 years, 3 months ago)

6 day germination for pans and some of the GT, not bad


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Re: Bod's BRF AGAR how to and "test" results [Re: bodhisatta] * 2
    #23922693 - 12/13/16 01:30 PM (6 years, 3 months ago)

I like brf agar :grin:


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Re: Bod's BRF AGAR how to and "test" results [Re: Pastywhyte] * 1
    #23922702 - 12/13/16 01:33 PM (6 years, 3 months ago)

i can only assume using pf style brf wouldnt work.

you need flour ...'grade' brf. correct?


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Re: Bod's BRF AGAR how to and "test" results [Re: mushboy] * 1
    #23922708 - 12/13/16 01:35 PM (6 years, 3 months ago)

I just use the stuff I buy at whole foods.


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Re: Bod's BRF AGAR how to and "test" results [Re: bodhisatta] * 1
    #23922725 - 12/13/16 01:40 PM (6 years, 3 months ago)

:popcorn:

:threadmonitor:


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Re: Bod's BRF AGAR how to and "test" results [Re: enlightenment] * 1
    #23922752 - 12/13/16 01:48 PM (6 years, 3 months ago)

BRF agar is all I've ever used... treated me well so far.


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Re: Bod's BRF AGAR how to and "test" results [Re: Thedenthead] * 1
    #23922764 - 12/13/16 01:55 PM (6 years, 3 months ago)

Those of you who used it what was your recipes and got any pics.


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Re: Bod's BRF AGAR how to and "test" results [Re: bodhisatta] * 1
    #23922789 - 12/13/16 02:06 PM (6 years, 3 months ago)

I just made a suspension similar to the ratios  violet used in her poms write up. Then I added a bit of karo and just made agar with it.


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Re: Bod's BRF AGAR how to and "test" results [Re: bodhisatta] * 1
    #23922893 - 12/13/16 02:36 PM (6 years, 3 months ago)

Quote:

bodhisatta said:
Those of you who used it what was your recipes and got any pics.



Sadly no. But I will make some more soon just for comparison :thumbup:


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Re: Bod's BRF AGAR how to and "test" results [Re: spirit_shadow] * 1
    #23922940 - 12/13/16 02:47 PM (6 years, 3 months ago)

Im tryn this for sure


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Re: Bod's BRF AGAR how to and "test" results [Re: Nobler Hino] * 1
    #23923146 - 12/13/16 03:45 PM (6 years, 3 months ago)

Nice one bod:rockon:


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Re: Bod's BRF AGAR how to and "test" results [Re: mrmazdarx9] * 1
    #23923311 - 12/13/16 05:02 PM (6 years, 3 months ago)

:jolly:


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Re: Bod's BRF AGAR how to and "test" results [Re: germanauslander] * 1
    #23931523 - 12/16/16 04:43 AM (6 years, 3 months ago)

Nice Bod :thumbup:
I did brf agar months ago but I added 1% SITR in the recipe because someone I trusted told me so, don't remember who.
Last night I pc'd a bunch of brf plates (1,5% BRF, no SITR) and I'm going to noc them up today with Jalisco, Pans and TOC.
:holyshitbubbles:


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Re: Bod's BRF AGAR how to and "test" results [Re: Josex] * 2
    #23932912 - 12/16/16 04:21 PM (6 years, 3 months ago)

some updates.
the 1.5% is the clear winner

next time I'll probably do 6g 10g 14g or 1.5% 2.5% and 3.5%


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Re: Bod's BRF AGAR how to and "test" results [Re: bodhisatta] * 2
    #23932935 - 12/16/16 04:27 PM (6 years, 3 months ago)

I have so much fucking BRF. I guess I figured I would be doing PF tek forever or something.
:threadmonitor:


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Re: Bod's BRF AGAR how to and "test" results [Re: bodhisatta]
    #23932936 - 12/16/16 04:27 PM (6 years, 3 months ago)

I thought you were a TC bodhisatta?


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Re: Bod's BRF AGAR how to and "test" results [Re: Intelligentxfruit] * 1
    #23932939 - 12/16/16 04:29 PM (6 years, 3 months ago)

haha no I'll never get that here.

regulars know where the good info comes from tag or not


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Re: Bod's BRF AGAR how to and "test" results [Re: bodhisatta]
    #23933051 - 12/16/16 05:08 PM (6 years, 3 months ago)

Word


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Re: Bod's BRF AGAR how to and "test" results [Re: ComebackKid]
    #23956685 - 12/25/16 03:39 PM (6 years, 2 months ago)



Some first transfers(second plates)
And the peu has germinated finally


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Re: Bod's BRF AGAR how to and "test" results [Re: bodhisatta]
    #23989573 - 01/07/17 01:27 PM (6 years, 2 months ago)

:popcorn:


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Re: Bod's BRF AGAR how to and "test" results [Re: van hatton] * 1
    #23989579 - 01/07/17 01:28 PM (6 years, 2 months ago)

next go at it I'll do 8 12 and 16 grams of BRF per 400mL
so 2 3 and 4 %


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Re: Bod's BRF AGAR how to and "test" results [Re: bodhisatta]
    #24001139 - 01/11/17 01:06 PM (6 years, 2 months ago)

I whipped up a batch of 4% BRF agar last night and dropped some spores on 2 plates today.
I'm using them as my back up plates for the LAGM community grow, I will keep you posted as to how they turn out.
:cheers:


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Re: Bod's BRF AGAR how to and "test" results [Re: bodhisatta]
    #24001166 - 01/11/17 01:22 PM (6 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:

bodhisatta said:
next go at it I'll do 8 12 and 16 grams of BRF per 400mL
so 2 3 and 4 %




Id like to see the results on that. Will you add it to this thread or create a new one?


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Re: Bod's BRF AGAR how to and "test" results [Re: wildernessjunkie]
    #24001336 - 01/11/17 02:16 PM (6 years, 2 months ago)

Add eventually


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Re: Bod's BRF AGAR how to and "test" results [Re: bodhisatta]
    #24029411 - 01/21/17 11:34 PM (6 years, 1 month ago)

Is there any advantage to using BRF aside from being cheap and widely available? I'm sure you guys are just using up old stock, as ComebackKid mentioned. I've also seen the paste mentioned as an alternative to spore germination, but I'm still reading.

It would certainly bring the cost per plate down over something like Malt Extract Agar.


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Re: Bod's BRF AGAR how to and "test" results [Re: emosavagerabbit]
    #24029419 - 01/21/17 11:37 PM (6 years, 1 month ago)

Malt extract is cheaper than brf unless you make your own brf from brown rice. Either way dirt cheap.

Brf agar works well. I have my 2017 thread has lots of pictures of pinning plates that were the brf ones


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Re: Bod's BRF AGAR how to and "test" results [Re: bodhisatta]
    #24029462 - 01/22/17 12:19 AM (6 years, 1 month ago)

Really? The best price I've found is like $4.00 a pound on Malt extract. That's online though, the local brewery store has it for a premium of like $10.00 a pound.

I'll have to check out your threads again!


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Re: Bod's BRF AGAR how to and "test" results [Re: emosavagerabbit]
    #24029874 - 01/22/17 08:35 AM (6 years, 1 month ago)

Pound of malt extract only makes 5 gallons of agar


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Re: Bod's BRF AGAR how to and "test" results [Re: bodhisatta]
    #24030557 - 01/22/17 01:27 PM (6 years, 1 month ago)

I guess the agar or the plates are the most expensive part!


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Re: Bod's BRF AGAR how to and "test" results [Re: emosavagerabbit]
    #24030589 - 01/22/17 01:37 PM (6 years, 1 month ago)

Plates are 10-20cents a piece, the agar agar on them is around 4 cents a plate (My agar agar costs €4 for 50 grams, 10 grams makes 20 plates), the malt extract is around 0,45 cents a plate (Malt extract is €9 per kg, 10 grams make 20 plates). Saran wrap is 0,001 cents a plate aka neglectable.

That makes a plate full of agar around 15-25 cents. I wouldn't go above 30 cents for an agar plate.


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Re: Bod's BRF AGAR how to and "test" results [Re: Tiamo]
    #24030684 - 01/22/17 02:15 PM (6 years, 1 month ago)

Quote:

Tiamo said:
Plates are 10-20cents a piece, the agar agar on them is around 4 cents a plate (My agar agar costs €4 for 50 grams, 10 grams makes 20 plates), the malt extract is around 0,45 cents a plate (Malt extract is €9 per kg, 10 grams make 20 plates). Saran wrap is 0,001 cents a plate aka neglectable.

That makes a plate full of agar around 15-25 cents. I wouldn't go above 30 cents for an agar plate.




I haven't been able to find a vendor for plates at that price (Including S&H?) Currently I'm paying arounds 60 cents per plate, and I'm estimating my agar cost to be somewhere between .02-.06 cents per plate depending on concentration.

Granted I'm using a popular online retailer with quick shipping, and I'm not buying in a great quantity. That could be why mine are so much more expensive.

I think it would still be cheaper for me to cut my teeth on agar than it would to trust in MS inoculations and waste quarts of spawn, so I'm going to push through.

At any rate, I think I'll try and run some BRF plates beside my MEA this time.


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Re: Bod's BRF AGAR how to and "test" results [Re: bodhisatta] * 1
    #24030747 - 01/22/17 02:37 PM (6 years, 1 month ago)

You write like a math teacher. :lol:

"These jars are fucking perfect for agar." Lol


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Re: Bod's BRF AGAR how to and "test" results [Re: Adden]
    #24030847 - 01/22/17 03:14 PM (6 years, 1 month ago)

May as well be one lol


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Re: Bod's BRF AGAR how to and "test" results [Re: bodhisatta]
    #24076504 - 02/09/17 01:33 AM (6 years, 1 month ago)

Sorry to butt in but I have a question. Will there be any advantage to just extract nutes from brf instead of pouring the brf itself into the agar solution?


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Re: Bod's BRF AGAR how to and "test" results [Re: bodhisatta]
    #24663946 - 09/27/17 11:00 AM (5 years, 5 months ago)

Did the 4g and up plates ever get made and tested bod?


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Re: Bod's BRF AGAR how to and "test" results [Re: PaulWall]
    #24663957 - 09/27/17 11:07 AM (5 years, 5 months ago)

No the highest percentages worked better in an obvious trend until it got too gloopy to work which was like 10g per 400ml

I think you meant 4% i used 4g plates in the OP
4g was 1% of my 400ml pours.

I would use 6-8 grams of brf per 400ml. To germinate spores
And 2-6 for growing out.


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Re: Bod's BRF AGAR how to and "test" results [Re: bodhisatta]
    #24667245 - 09/28/17 02:22 PM (5 years, 5 months ago)

Yea my bad, I meant 4%, I went with 7g yesterday, and it turned out well. Thanks for the thread and the swift response


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Re: Bod's BRF AGAR how to and "test" results [Re: bodhisatta] * 3
    #24667572 - 09/28/17 03:59 PM (5 years, 5 months ago)

Quote:

bodhisatta said:
some updates.
the 1.5% is the clear winner

next time I'll probably do 6g 10g 14g or 1.5% 2.5% and 3.5%



Quote:

bodhisatta said:
No the highest percentages worked better in an obvious trend until it got too gloopy to work which was like 10g per 400ml

I think you meant 4% i used 4g plates in the OP
4g was 1% of my 400ml pours.

I would use 6-8 grams of brf per 400ml. To germinate spores
And 2-6 for growing out.




Your "highest percentage" isn't really that very high. Especially when you consider how well mycelium grow on whole grains, solid with starch.

The incentive behind limiting the grain agar recipes is to keep them clear of debris, unlike a number of other agar recipes where being too sweet is a significant concern.  I actually use a MUCH larger percentage of brown rice in my agar preparations, counting on a large amount of the weight to be settled out of the mixture.

My recipe for preparing 500mL of BRF agar is like 20 grams or more of brown rice flour and 750mL water.
20g is double the amount of, say, light malt extract that you'd want to use. But not only is much of the BRF starch going to be poured aside, but there's no concentration of nutrition in the water that could be undesired unless it messed with the media itself.

After mixing the water and BRF together in a container, I boil it in a microwave to hydrate & expand the brown rice particles, and hopefully boil as much of it into the water as I can.  I keep it around boiling temperatures for 10 or more minutes, stopping the microwave to stir before the media could boil over.



As the mixture cools it will also settle.  Wait until it has cooled enough to handle without burning. It will have been long enough for the first pour off.

Without greatly disturbing the media, pick up the container and gently, steadily, pour the liquid into another container, until you get close to pouring off the settled layer of stuff in the bottom.  Leave that behind and discard.



The liquids should look quite different. The thin one to be discarded should be thick and difficult to see through.  The liquid we poured away to use should be much clearer in smaller amounts but still opaque in the large amount.

Let the liquid settle again, and pour off one last time to get rid of all debris.  (Filters could be used but I never bother.)


If necessary, bring your water level back up to 500 just by adding the difference.  Mix in your agar-agar powder (boiling again if necessary, it is for mine) and remember to stir it between distributions.


I love the stuff for Cubensis, and grainwater in general works as well for any mushroom species as you'd expect them to do on grain spawn.  I use grainwater (rye, ryegrass, wheat or oats) for 100% of my agar and occasional LCs for a wide variety of species and all have done great so far.

Germination,


grow outs,


clones,


even growing actual mushrooms...


I've only found that stronger is better.  Only time I've bothered to dilute is when I want to be able to see through LCs a little more easily early on, agar goes full strength.


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Re: Bod's BRF AGAR how to and "test" results [Re: Violet]
    #24667640 - 09/28/17 04:16 PM (5 years, 5 months ago)

Interesting


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Re: Bod's BRF AGAR how to and "test" results [Re: Mateja]
    #24667692 - 09/28/17 04:30 PM (5 years, 5 months ago)

Add twice as much as useful decant a off a ridiculous amount of sediment :takingnotes:



These all eventually made mushrooms too. And pinned like mad.


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Re: Bod's BRF AGAR how to and "test" results [Re: bodhisatta]
    #24667711 - 09/28/17 04:33 PM (5 years, 5 months ago)

:takingnotes::cheers:


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Re: Bod's BRF AGAR how to and "test" results [Re: bodhisatta] * 3
    #24667953 - 09/28/17 06:04 PM (5 years, 5 months ago)

Quote:

bodhisatta said:
Add twice as much as useful decant a off a ridiculous amount of sediment :takingnotes:




Wow... what an asinine response to someone offering input, someone with years and years of experience with grain agar media voluntarily shared with the board.
Meanwhile your recipe is so thin you're able to see clear differences between how well they do.  For all your pride, maybe you could use the advice.

The "ridiculous" amount of sediment is clearly seen in the photos I posted to be a small fraction of the liquid.  Dunno about you, personally I like my agar to be nice and clear.  Two-step pouring away from settled starch in any grain-in-water preparation is the easiest way to get and 'filter' the freest and best agar I've ever used with no tools except gravity.


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Re: Bod's BRF AGAR how to and "test" results [Re: Violet]
    #24668338 - 09/28/17 08:40 PM (5 years, 5 months ago)

The general consensus in mush cult is: agar with sediment is ok and LC broth should be clear.
But Sonic walking on his balls likes clear agar and grain water LC made from ground grains aka flour, plenty of sediment plz and pour that bitch!


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Re: Bod's BRF AGAR how to and "test" results [Re: Josex]
    #24668344 - 09/28/17 08:42 PM (5 years, 5 months ago)

:mostinteresting:


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Re: Bod's BRF AGAR how to and "test" results [Re: mushboy]
    #24668364 - 09/28/17 08:53 PM (5 years, 5 months ago)

Try it out yourselves you'll see the useful cutoff.
I know what gets it done for me that's all.

Quote:


your recipe is so thin you're able to see clear differences between how well they do.




Exactly.


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Re: Bod's BRF AGAR how to and "test" results [Re: Josex] * 1
    #24668377 - 09/28/17 08:59 PM (5 years, 5 months ago)

A little sediment from sterilization is fine by me too (which I don't seem to get sterilizing individual containers) but fluffed-up sterilized starchy brown rice sediment isn't nice imo, or at least it's tougher to feel proud of lol.

I also don't mind sediment in my grainwater LC like you! It's an easy way early on to confirm a clean LC with quickly and healthy growing mycelium, they don't take long to snag those pieces around them in the bottom of the container.


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Re: Bod's BRF AGAR how to and "test" results [Re: Violet]
    #24668403 - 09/28/17 09:09 PM (5 years, 5 months ago)

I used brf agar with sediment a lot not so long ago, I liked it and the plates usually pinned like crazy, but me prefers clear agar these days.
I'm not laying any judgement at all, different folks different strokes, that't a cool thing about this hobby.


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Re: Bod's BRF AGAR how to and "test" results [Re: Josex]
    #24668408 - 09/28/17 09:11 PM (5 years, 5 months ago)

i like my agar clear as f


lc broth?? ooooooo i like its a secret :nono:


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Re: Bod's BRF AGAR how to and "test" results [Re: bodhisatta] * 3
    #24669189 - 09/29/17 08:09 AM (5 years, 5 months ago)

Quote:

bodhisatta said:
Quote:


your recipe is so thin you're able to see clear differences between how well they do.




Exactly.




"Exactly"?  So you are AIMING to get weak growth on media that is made too thin for no reason? I thought this was a "How to" thread not a "How Not to" one.
Or you just want it to look like you always know exactly what you're doing and couldn't possibly have offered up a poor recipe in a How-To post without some likely explanation?


In my first post I was offering information and help to be nice and supportive, offering only helpful information and holding back the uncalled for criticism, but if you're gonna be a self-assured jerk about it:

Your post is bad; ALL of your BRF agar recipes here are too thin, end of story.
You're hearing it right now from a grain agar champ that wrote a better BRF agar prep method over a year before you first made this post, and has been using it far, far longer too, since the days I posted the first of this forum's current no-pour agar teks... using grainwater, at that.  I've been making it my business to know about nutritive content of grainwater and how it works for many years.

If ~8g of *pure malt EXTRACT* is called for for 400mL, then it should be obvious that a mere six grams of whole brown rice with husk and fiber and all is well less than ideal, especially when there's no feasible amount of grain nutrition that is too much like there is with malt etc.
And especially when, unlike malt/karo/dextrose/etc., you're not gonna get 100% of the BRF's nutrition suspended in the water.

Only way for *you*, and people following this "How To", to keep close to the already deficient level of nutrition suggested in this tek is to actually leave your agar littered with the rice particles you fail to suspend into the liquid media itself.


Of course, if NOW all of a sudden the only thing you care about is that it 'works' then feel free to keep sharing third-tier agar recipes, just be a tad more mindful next time you want to trash people's proven working methods ;]

It never hurts to be able to learn from people.


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Edited by Violet (09/29/17 08:19 AM)


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Re: Bod's BRF AGAR how to and "test" results [Re: Violet]
    #24669267 - 09/29/17 08:34 AM (5 years, 5 months ago)

Youre right...
They're way too thin and have a deficiency. Its so obvious.
:facepalm:


Mushrooms popped up just fine on even the 1% brf plates. Sorry i like my cultures to not look like shit.

Quote:

Violet said:

.





Brf is more nutritional than malt extract. 2% malt is about as high as you want to go before mycelium grows dense to tomentose. Unless you specifically desired slow ugly tomentose growth. Im not trying to grow a crop on a dish. Im trying to get a clean culture

*Your* posts use of * makes me want to
:suicide:


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Re: Bod's BRF AGAR how to and "test" results [Re: bodhisatta]
    #24669307 - 09/29/17 08:44 AM (5 years, 5 months ago)

:popcorn:


over nute malt agar sucked balls.


i jacked the recipe. this was about 4-5%


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Re: Bod's BRF AGAR how to and "test" results [Re: bodhisatta] * 3
    #24669310 - 09/29/17 08:45 AM (5 years, 5 months ago)

Mushrooms fruiting doesn't exactly signal anything special in your favor to say the least... If anything, the cultures will fruit more readily once nutrition is gone, which happens more quickly on dilute plates.  You can see it happen in advance with food coloring or grainwater color changes as the mycelium runs out.

What you should be paying more attention to in regards to the quality of your agar is the clearly and significantly stunted growth quality that's the direct result of media with as little as half or a quarter of the suggested nutrition.

No empty action mimicking what a turn-around on me might look like, and no snarky suicide joke, is gonna fix this bad recipe for which you provided your own evidence


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Re: Bod's BRF AGAR how to and "test" results [Re: Violet]
    #24669333 - 09/29/17 08:52 AM (5 years, 5 months ago)

Now getting rhizomorphic growing cultures are stunted?
:epicfacepalm:

We dial back nutrition on purpose with agar until we get away from tomentose growth...


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Re: Bod's BRF AGAR how to and "test" results [Re: mushboy] * 2
    #24669349 - 09/29/17 08:58 AM (5 years, 5 months ago)

Quote:

mushboy said:
:popcorn:


over nute malt agar sucked balls.


i jacked the recipe. this was about 4-5%





I think it depends on the nutes and what it is you're culturing.  Here are some side-by-sides of 2% and 4% MEA. 


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Re: Bod's BRF AGAR how to and "test" results [Re: bodhisatta] * 3
    #24669373 - 09/29/17 09:07 AM (5 years, 5 months ago)

For one, I'm pretty sure the growth you were saying lost out to your strongest recipe time and time again in this tek's post wasn't the ideal rhizo growth you're talking about, so you're obviously trying to flip the script with information that doesn't seem to be applying well here, but anyways.


bod, bod, bod, too much thinking like a reader and regurgigator and not enough thinking like a grower...

I'd like to see someone convince me that I'm over-feeding my cultures.


Rhizo rhizo rhizo.  Undiluted, super-rich rgs/brf agars.


Rhizo isn't something that happens BECAUSE of low nutrition, as if there's an equal sign. 

Grain agars are different. Our target organisms don't have an intolerance for too high a potency of starch and grain nutrition as they do with so many of the recipe ingredients that have been widely used.  In fact we tend to get or aim for the best growth possible on our grain media.


Don't be so defensive to the point that, instead of improving by learning from all sources of knowledge, you end up looking like you're running damage control on your ego over just a poor recipe...


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Edited by Violet (09/29/17 09:17 AM)


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Re: Bod's BRF AGAR how to and "test" results [Re: Violet]
    #24669394 - 09/29/17 09:14 AM (5 years, 5 months ago)

Why don't you go write an agar tek half the forum uses. Pasty and I can split the market share three ways if you do.


Your rye grass seed is over hydrated. That's what needs damage control


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Re: Bod's BRF AGAR how to and "test" results [Re: bodhisatta] * 2
    #24669447 - 09/29/17 09:29 AM (5 years, 5 months ago)

Quote:

bodhisatta said:
Why don't you go write an agar tek half the forum uses. Pasty and I can split the market share three ways if you do.




And here we see the big man reducing to drivel and a poor sport's pride...
Thread views/posts about using a method isn't a popularity or dick-measuring contest that wins default credibility for a bad tek, guy.

I can dig that a lot of people have gotten into agar with "Pasty Plates" but a tek's merit isn't found in how many people use it, that should be obvious. The difference between my post and those that came after but have more views are only the container (mine remain totally unmodified in perfect shape with a wide flat bottom area making ideal use of 20-25mL agar) and the purposeful exposure they get to each and every newcomer on this site by its loudest mouths.  So trying to talk smack about my no-pour agar tek is objectively really stupid and shows what you actually care about.

My posts are just a documented collaboration of my whole grow methodology I wanted to be accessible on the one decent mushroom forum.  My no-pour agar container tek is *part* of my culture tek thread.  I'm not trying to be the biggest name on campus.  But now we know how important that is to you.

Quote:

bodhisatta said:

Your rye grass seed is over hydrated



Which is why I took and kept the photo, but good job on the expert eye there ;P


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Re: Bod's BRF AGAR how to and "test" results [Re: Violet]
    #24669465 - 09/29/17 09:38 AM (5 years, 5 months ago)

Its no dick contest, I'm just pointing out that if you have something to say go do something about it like we did. My work clearly works and speaks for itself.

you're here trying to say it doesn't work its bad and its a how not to.
Quote:

Violet said:
that is made too thin for no reason? I thought this was a "How to" thread not a "How Not to" one.

Your post is bad; ALL of your BRF agar recipes here are too thin, end of story





So it plain old doesn't work? Even though it clearly does. Seems like someone can't learn from others.
Quote:

Violet said:
never hurts to be able to learn from people.





You can claim I need to do damage control. Or my media is thin and lacking. Are you blind? Why do you always need to be right?

Speaking of too thin brf agar is a gloopy mess I only bother resorting to when I don't have grain water handy.
Go ahead and try not to have boil over issues, and a useless amount of extra sediment, using more than 10-12g of brf in 400ml in a 500ml media bottle.

Go away lol.


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Re: Bod's BRF AGAR how to and "test" results [Re: bodhisatta] * 3
    #24669488 - 09/29/17 09:47 AM (5 years, 5 months ago)

Now you're making shit up...?  Jeez man, time to quit posting
Never said it didn't "Work"
Really if anything I suppose I acknowledged it did
Quote:

Of course, if NOW all of a sudden the only thing you care about is that it 'works' then feel free to keep sharing third-tier agar recipes




But I said you had thin/weak/poor growth, not NO growth.  You had some weak growth so it "works", is that really the last defense you have?

This is a half-step above noob experiment shit, and the noob getting mad when someone who knows the method better tells him it should be better, because it.... worked


And now that's what I'm gonna treat this as, and dismiss it accordingly


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Re: Bod's BRF AGAR how to and "test" results [Re: Violet] * 1
    #24669556 - 09/29/17 10:15 AM (5 years, 5 months ago)

Righto,
Barely working and just getting by. Keep reaching...
Call it "just works" if you want.





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Re: Bod's BRF AGAR how to and "test" results [Re: bodhisatta] * 3
    #24669599 - 09/29/17 10:31 AM (5 years, 5 months ago)

Ugh yeah especially now I'm gonna call it "just works"
I can see how it might, on occasion, be useful to do that on purpose...

but after having done thousands of dishes of settled clear but undiluted grainwater agar and NEVER seeing mycelium look thin, scraggly, and desperately pinning from nutrient deficiency on just the few thick strands they manage like in those 4 big grown-out dishes laying flat, the ones that are from this thread,

I now have set aside my remaining curiosity about diluting my own grainwaters and will defer to this thread as evidence for why I'll continue to suggest people keep their grainwater whole for dishes


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Re: Bod's BRF AGAR how to and "test" results [Re: Violet]
    #24669611 - 09/29/17 10:36 AM (5 years, 5 months ago)

Quote:

Violet said:
Ugh yeah especially now I'm gonna call it "just works"
I can see how it might, on occasion, be useful to do that on purpose...

but after having done thousands of dishes of settled clear but undiluted grainwater agar and NEVER seeing mycelium look thin, scraggly, and desperately pinning from nutrient deficiency on just the few thick strands they manage like in those 4 big grown-out dishes laying flat, the ones that are from this thread,

I now have set aside my remaining curiosity about diluting my own grainwaters and will defer to this thread as evidence for why I'll continue to suggest people keep their grainwater whole for dishes



I always use my grain water at 100% strength.
I use brf agar when I have no grain water around.

Put too much brf in water it eventually settles out. Use just enough that most dissolves and the rest acts like a colloid.

Using a hydrometer you can measure the dissolved sugar content of your grain soak water even undiluted its weaker than 2% brf agar


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Re: Bod's BRF AGAR how to and "test" results [Re: bodhisatta] * 2
    #24669620 - 09/29/17 10:40 AM (5 years, 5 months ago)

Well good.  According to the evaporative experiments I did determining the rice matter volume of the different settled waters pulled,  your preparation recipe is likely a lot thinner than the grainwater you're using undiluted.  The recipe I offered, developed for the same reasons, has been a perfect and consistent substitution for the grainwater I otherwise use undiluted.  But then again, it might also be the case that my grainwater is also generally stronger than yours thanks to the substrates I use. These things can vary.


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Re: Bod's BRF AGAR how to and "test" results [Re: Violet]
    #24669974 - 09/29/17 12:44 PM (5 years, 5 months ago)

The other day I cooked 30g of WBS for 15min in 3dl water, made 3dl agar with it and the myc looks very weak barely visible, but outgrowing the others by far (for obvious reasons). A few days later I boiled 60g WBS for 30 min in 3dl, and on this recipe myc lookes just a tiny bit better but still weak. And the broth was pretty dark the second batch.

I have to say after reading about diluting grainwater 1/4 I am now a bit skeptical, I only have 1 set of plates left and originally I was gonna boil 90g for 45 min for the third test but now I don't feel comfortable in spending the last dishes on something that might be too weak. Intuitively one thinks that the broth from cooking WBS would be highly nutritious, but it is not.

Anyone ever made grain water agar this way? By cooking whole grains?


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Re: Bod's BRF AGAR how to and "test" results [Re: Mateja]
    #24670002 - 09/29/17 12:51 PM (5 years, 5 months ago)

Never used wbs but for oats and rye I just use the leftover that drains thru the strainer for my agar


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Re: Bod's BRF AGAR how to and "test" results [Re: bodhisatta] * 1
    #24670229 - 09/29/17 01:59 PM (5 years, 5 months ago)

Just dropping by to link the Aloha Culture Bank's standard media list and a gravity : sugar content table. All you really need is enough sucrose to support mitosis. Have fun, guys. :smile:


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Re: Bod's BRF AGAR how to and "test" results [Re: AndyHinton]
    #24670589 - 09/29/17 03:44 PM (5 years, 5 months ago)

Quote:

AndyHinton said:
Just dropping by to link the Aloha Culture Bank's standard media list and a gravity : sugar content table. All you really need is enough sucrose to support mitosis. Have fun, guys. :smile:





So these recipes do come from somewhere :smile: DFA and BRF, I though people on Shroomery invented those! Or maybe they were invented multiple times by different people?


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Re: Bod's BRF AGAR how to and "test" results [Re: Mateja] * 2
    #24670645 - 09/29/17 04:02 PM (5 years, 5 months ago)

Wow, those recipes appeared even more nutritious than I expected. They're not only using 10g, a whole 10g I'm sure, of floured grains like milo or corn for 500mL of solution, they're still adding the 10g of malt too!  That's quite a potent batch.

If I weren't filtering off all starch and trying to make a strong but clear boiled brew, 12g or so of rice would have been my suggested recipe. And that's not adding malt. Aloha takes it even further than I do!


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Re: Bod's BRF AGAR how to and "test" results [Re: Mateja]
    #24683646 - 10/04/17 03:06 PM (5 years, 5 months ago)

Quote:

Mateah said:
So these recipes do come from somewhere :smile: DFA and BRF, I though people on Shroomery invented those! Or maybe they were invented multiple times by different people?



I first saw Stephen Pollocks name associated with DFA, not sure what his original was, quick search found this

Quote:

Dr. Pollock's Modified Agar*

10 grams dried dog food
10 grams amaranth flour
2 grams dextrose or malt extract
9.5 grams agar
500 mL distilled water


*The above formula is a modification of one first used by the late Dr. Stephen H. Pollock, discoverer of the extremely rare Psilocybe tampanensis, Psilocybe wassoniorum, and ethnomycologist par excellance.




Not sure when BRF was first popularly used in agar, but PF was using it in his PF jars which at least seems to brought it more into view as a nutrition source, and PFs said his idea for PF jars was inspired by both Stamets and Pollock.


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Re: Bod's BRF AGAR how to and "test" results [Re: blackout]
    #24706870 - 10/13/17 10:59 AM (5 years, 5 months ago)

Sorry for bumping this thread but seems a good place to ask, why no sugar/honey/karo? I have been using munch's potato recipe and it uses honey or sugar, and have seen others with a sweetener. I haven't been able to find out why though after looking a few times. thanks guys.


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Re: Bod's BRF AGAR how to and "test" results [Re: icetech]
    #24706874 - 10/13/17 11:02 AM (5 years, 5 months ago)

Because its a different recipe.

Like saying why no salt in chocolate milk. Doesn't need it.


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Re: Bod's BRF AGAR how to and "test" results [Re: bodhisatta]
    #24708216 - 10/13/17 09:38 PM (5 years, 5 months ago)

Quote:

bodhisatta said:
Because its a different recipe.

Like saying why no salt in chocolate milk. Doesn't need it.





Bod,

Interesting thread.  I have a question.

After the Agar is full of Mycelium, what do you do next?


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Re: Bod's BRF AGAR how to and "test" results [Re: meltdowner]
    #24708267 - 10/13/17 10:14 PM (5 years, 5 months ago)



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Re: Bod's BRF AGAR how to and "test" results [Re: bodhisatta]
    #24708767 - 10/14/17 07:09 AM (5 years, 5 months ago)

Quote:

bodhisatta said:
Because its a different recipe.

Like saying why no salt in chocolate milk. Doesn't need it.





Ah.. sorry just been trying to figure why some people use 2 nutrient sources and some use 1.. a actual reason.. someone pm'd me though, all good thanks :smile: sorry for the post.


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Re: Bod's BRF AGAR how to and "test" results [Re: bodhisatta]
    #24708826 - 10/14/17 07:53 AM (5 years, 5 months ago)

Quote:

bodhisatta said:
Use it.
https://www.shroomery.org/forums/showflat.php/Number/21922023




Thanks Bod, you're very helpful.  I really appreciate it.


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Re: Bod's BRF AGAR how to and "test" results [Re: icetech]
    #24709132 - 10/14/17 10:40 AM (5 years, 5 months ago)

Quote:

icetech said:
Quote:

bodhisatta said:
Because its a different recipe.

Like saying why no salt in chocolate milk. Doesn't need it.





Ah.. sorry just been trying to figure why some people use 2 nutrient sources and some use 1.. a actual reason.. someone pm'd me though, all good thanks :smile: sorry for the post.



Basically each recipe is made to work. Theres enough sugars/carbs in BRF additional sugar would hurt performance


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Re: Bod's BRF AGAR how to and "test" results [Re: bodhisatta]
    #24709162 - 10/14/17 10:50 AM (5 years, 5 months ago)

thanks man :smile:

Quote:

bodhisatta said:
Quote:

icetech said:
Quote:

bodhisatta said:
Because its a different recipe.

Like saying why no salt in chocolate milk. Doesn't need it.





Ah.. sorry just been trying to figure why some people use 2 nutrient sources and some use 1.. a actual reason.. someone pm'd me though, all good thanks :smile: sorry for the post.



Basically each recipe is made to work. Theres enough sugars/carbs in BRF additional sugar would hurt performance




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Re: Bod's BRF AGAR how to and "test" results [Re: icetech]
    #24744566 - 10/29/17 12:32 AM (5 years, 4 months ago)

This is what i couldnt find, thanks


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Re: Bod's BRF AGAR how to and "test" results [Re: thewiseguywithaj]
    #24744880 - 10/29/17 07:21 AM (5 years, 4 months ago)

Bod I hope it's okej if I bother this thread with this scenario. These are some cubensis clones on 3 different agar recipes, WBS soak water (unknown nutrient density), DFA at 2% and BRF at 2%. I transferred the cube clones and a Pan Cyan culture in one go to compare growth and speed of recovery on the different recipes. All the cube transfers to BRF look like they are barely surviving, and the Pan Cyan transfer to BRF seems like it stopped growing after a few days.




Could it be that Violet was onto something when she proposed that BRF agar at 1.5% is way too weak? Seriously I'm not looking to start another debate that turns into bashing each others persons. I see you all as my friends or my kids and sometimes I want to beat the crap out of you guys when you're not nice to each other. Violet if you are reading, please present your input without dragging in anything previous to this post right here, please? :smile:

I honestly just want to understand what the difference is between the nutrients and why myc looks so weak on 'my' BRF. I have seen Bod's plates at 1.5% BRF and they look good (from my limited expertise)

I would like to settle this one and for all, what's up with BRF agar and what % strength is equivalent of a nutritious GW agar?


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Re: Bod's BRF AGAR how to and "test" results [Re: Mateja] * 1
    #24744972 - 10/29/17 08:21 AM (5 years, 4 months ago)

Probably because its TOO nutritional. Mycelium grows slower and more tomentose on strong agar. And faster and more rhisomorphic on weaker agar.

I would guess something like 0.5-1% brf plates would be close to grain water. Good luck settling it once and for all

Here's some pictures i never ended up updating the OP with

The best looking , best growing cultures were on 2g or 0.5% plates.
The best germination and pinning were on the stronger plates but the mycelium didn't look as pretty



Heres someone elses

Quote:

ShamanBag said:
I picked the largest and one of the first mushrooms from a golden teacher ms, made some agar plates and cloned it.  I did the same for a huge Orissa India fruit.  I'm trying my hand at agar and cloning for the first time and I think it's time to transfer to new dishes.  I'd like some feedback on what people feel is the best spot to transfer from on these dishes. 

I'd also like to ask about the high from the cloned golden teacher.  I ate about 1.5 grams of the fruit that I cloned and it felt pretty strong. No visuals other than a slight 3d effect on my shower walls but the thing I noticed the most was the intense body high at the beginning of the trip.  I actually didn't like it too much.  I felt extremely slow mo and heavy with loss of coordination and sluggishness.  Is this pretty standard for cubies for most people or does that vary from fruit to fruit?  I'm wondering if I've cloned a fast, big and potent fruit that Im' not going to enjoy because of the body high.







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Re: Bod's BRF AGAR how to and "test" results [Re: bodhisatta]
    #24745072 - 10/29/17 09:12 AM (5 years, 4 months ago)

When it comes to myc it's difficult to be sure there's not some other variable that could be found...

... but I can guarantee you beyond a doubt that answer is wrong.

I'm sorry, but, really? Now you want to suggest your recommended recipe of 1.5% BRF is TOO nutritious?

For one, we've already covered the "TOO nutritional" thing when it comes to grain agars.  That certainly can apply to a number of agar recipe ingredients, but not grain.
Perhaps that point deserved to be driven home more than it was.  We don't get "slower and more tomentose" growth on strong grain media. We don't get "faster and more rhisomorphic" growth on nutritionally weak grain (there's really no such thing).

And secondly, we already know the recipe isn't "too nutritious" according to people with expertise with the media and methods. You don't even have to take my expertise alone if you want. Those Aloha recipes are using 10g malt AND 10g grain in their grain agar medias.  That's 4% total nutritional value, and 2% of it alone is a stronger recipe than you have suggested in this one.  Besides, remember that some percentage of grain matter is stuff like fiber, not 100% carbs/nitro/etc.


"I would guess something like 0.5-1% brf plates would be close to grain water."
A guess indeed. You don't know how much, or as my point is getting at how little, of that nutrition you're boiling into the water, either in your grain preps OR in this recipe.
Quote:

Violet said:
Well good.  According to the evaporative experiments I did determining the rice matter volume of the different settled waters pulled,  your preparation recipe is likely a lot thinner than the grainwater you're using undiluted.  The recipe I offered, developed for the same reasons, has been a perfect and consistent substitution for the grainwater I otherwise use undiluted.  But then again, it might also be the case that my grainwater is also generally stronger than yours thanks to the substrates I use. These things can vary.



I posted a thread detailing one of those experiments somewhere, might be linked in my teks & posts page.

Most people prep grains by bringing it to a boil in its water then keeping the rolling boil going for 15-40 minutes, though we all probably do it a little bit differently.
That grainwater is so nutritious if you don't use enough water (or rinse them I guess) that much of the starch and nutrition they boiled into the water can remain stuck to the grain's surfaces contributing to stickiness.
Despite using at least 3x the volume of water to grains, my grainwater is often so nutritious that it continues to precipitate grain nutrition when I refrigerate it, like if you over-sweeten tea when it's hot then put it in the fridge.

But your BRF recipe only got boiling water poured onto it, then right into the cooker for a short pressure sterilization.

Flouring the grains certainly helps a LOT but I don't think it's nearly as reaching of a guess as yours for me to suppose from experience with BRF agar that you're not infusing a great concentration, of your already demonstrably deficient amount of nutrition, into the agar water.



Mateah I won't venture too confident a guess as to exactly why you see that change in your growth since, as I said, it's possible another variable could be involved, but it is definitely possible that the weak agar recipe is contributing.

Of course, how you're infusing that nutrition into the media plays a hand.  I would feel a bit better about bodhi's recipe if it ensured its nutrition was actually a part of the agar and not just mostly sediment.  That's actually the reason I posted my process... I know how important that aspect is. For all we know discoloration could be little more than dust when we haven't cooked the solvent into the solution.

The good news is that it doesn't matter TOO badly.  It's not what I would want my cultures to look like (perhaps I'm spoiled by how my growth has consistently looked the last 4 years) but it's undoubtable that mycelium will at least run through the agar, so you've got your genetics spread out regardless.  Just sucks if you're looking for changes in growth patterns.


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Re: Bod's BRF AGAR how to and "test" results [Re: Violet]
    #24745073 - 10/29/17 09:12 AM (5 years, 4 months ago)

TLDR. Show me some of your plates that don't look terrible. Like the ones from a few pages back

Keep coming here trying to say it doesn't work well or it's weak. When it clearly does work for its intended purpose very well lol.

Quote:


"I would guess something like 0.5-1% brf plates would be close to grain water."

A guess indeed. You don't know how much, or as my point is getting at how little, of that nutrition you're boiling into the water, either in your grain preps OR in this recipe.




I do make beer for a living and all grain soak water ive tested is under 2% total dissolved solids (which includes sugar and anything else) ever measured TDS before?

So my guess is based on measurements and science at least.


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Re: Bod's BRF AGAR how to and "test" results [Re: bodhisatta]
    #24745106 - 10/29/17 09:33 AM (5 years, 4 months ago)

Wow, you are not only one of the most rude and cocksure posters I have ever encountered but you're far too brazen for your own good.
Especially if you want to be able to claim to not be trying to keep the drama going, because that kind of attitude right there is gonna do just that.

For one, do you have like NO memory WHATSOEVER? :wow:
Quote:

Violet said:
Now you're making shit up...?  Jeez man, time to quit posting
Never said it didn't "Work"
Really if anything I suppose I acknowledged it did
Quote:

Of course, if NOW all of a sudden the only thing you care about is that it 'works' then feel free to keep sharing third-tier agar recipes



But I said you had thin/weak/poor growth, not NO growth.  You had some weak growth so it "works", is that really the last defense you have?

This is a half-step above noob experiment shit, and the noob getting mad when someone who knows the method better tells him it should be better, because it.... worked



Lather, rinse, repeat. :wink:

And even more laughable, you think you're in ANY kind of position right now to say MY plates look bad? :laugh2:
For one I'm mostly just using pure undiluted grainwater so if you want to shit on my agar you're shitting on all grainwater agar including your own :shrug:
Two, when I DO use BRF agar my growth is MUCH thicker and healthier than yours which are no shining example of healthy growth as I already pointed out.
Quote:

Violet said:
I can see how it might, on occasion, be useful to do that on purpose...
but after having done thousands of dishes of settled clear but undiluted grainwater agar and NEVER seeing mycelium look thin, scraggly, and desperately pinning from nutrient deficiency on just the few thick strands they manage like in those 4 big grown-out dishes laying flat, the ones that are from this thread...





My BRF agar. Attacking the quality of this growth is attacking your own credibility.  Anyone here can see.


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Re: Bod's BRF AGAR how to and "test" results [Re: Violet]
    #24745118 - 10/29/17 09:41 AM (5 years, 4 months ago)

Quote:

Violet said:
Wow, you are not only one of the most rude and cocksure posters I have ever encountered but you're far too brazen for your own good.
Especially if you want to be able to claim to not be trying to keep the drama going, because that kind of attitude right there is gonna do just that.

For one, do you have like NO memory WHATSOEVER? :wow:
Quote:

Violet said:
Now you're making shit up...?  Jeez man, time to quit posting
Never said it didn't "Work"
Really if anything I suppose I acknowledged it did
Quote:

Of course, if NOW all of a sudden the only thing you care about is that it 'works' then feel free to keep sharing third-tier agar recipes



But I said you had thin/weak/poor growth, not NO growth.  You had some weak growth so it "works", is that really the last defense you have?

This is a half-step above noob experiment shit, and the noob getting mad when someone who knows the method better tells him it should be better, because it.... worked



Lather, rinse, repeat. :wink:





I really don't care about me. If you want to talk about mushrooms go ahead. People don't like paragraph replies, especially ones like the above. Any more off topic or dragging my awesome personality into this and :bye:



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Re: Bod's BRF AGAR how to and "test" results [Re: bodhisatta]
    #24745144 - 10/29/17 09:56 AM (5 years, 4 months ago)

Off topic.

Please don't try to edit your post after I already kicked you out of this thread.



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Edited by bodhisatta (10/29/17 01:16 PM)


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Re: Bod's BRF AGAR how to and "test" results [Re: Violet]
    #24745170 - 10/29/17 10:07 AM (5 years, 4 months ago)

My work already speaks for itself.

0.5 and 1% plates pin like mad. Poured thicker they support many more pins invitro.
As i said earlier 2%+ works great for germination.



Grain water agar works brilliantly too and at under 2% total dissolved solids it has less than 2% of cumulatively everything dissolved added up.

No fight. People have different opinions.


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Re: Bod's BRF AGAR how to and "test" results [Re: bodhisatta]
    #24748246 - 10/30/17 05:53 PM (5 years, 4 months ago)

Quote:

bodhisatta said:
here's another small test
all from the same donor ESS plate three wedges were taken each went to a different strength BRF agar
the 1.5% being clearly the strongest recovery.
clearly doing best on the 1.5%




If >1.5% gave "best recovery" then why assume that 2% is "TOO strong"?


Just for the record I'm only pointing out stuff that is contradicting and confusing, I'm not trying to argue. Violet showed Rizo growth on her strong recipes and on her grain/rice and I feel that this contradicts your statements about "too nutritious=tomentose".


And also another thing, the photos of ShamanBag's plates that you showed are actually 2% BRF and you call his recipe in the thread "my weak recipe" but when I posted the same 2% BRF agar you said it was too strong :shrug:

Quote:

ShamanBag said:
To be clear the recipe I used was 10g BRF, 10g Agar Agar, 500ml water.





Bod, I understand mycelium can act weird and is unique, I'm just trying to :takingnotes: as much as possible and I feel that I HAVE TO ask when I see something not right. Can you elaborate on this for me a little? I know you're probably busy but when you have the time!

I'm going to cook BRF agar right now in different recipes from 0.5%-5.0% to see for myself how that clone of mine will change presence and performance when being transferred to both a stronger and weaker recipes. I will report back! Peace


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Re: Bod's BRF AGAR how to and "test" results [Re: Mateja]
    #24748261 - 10/30/17 06:00 PM (5 years, 4 months ago)

spores had the best germination and wedges had the best recovery on the higher nutrition plate, but the best looking growth I've had was on the lower nutrition plates. If you want less tomentose growth use lower nutrition plates. if you want thicker growth pump more nutrition in. Too high of percentage brf and the media gets very gloopy.

for what it's worth a lot of lab grade, and premade agar from vendors gives people bad looking thick tomentose growth.
this isn't really a problem if you're just trying to culture fungi, but we're trying to clean cultures or reduce genetics.

And you get the entire point. try it yourself and post your results. 5% probably works great for germination but the mycelium will probably crawl across the agar twice as slow as a 1% plate.

I like to use what works for me. I like the culture to grow on the agar at a reasonable speed, I prefer it to grow more rhizomprphic if possible, and I like the agar to be transparent.


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Re: Bod's BRF AGAR how to and "test" results [Re: bodhisatta]
    #24827593 - 12/05/17 10:40 AM (5 years, 3 months ago)

2 grams/.5% = rhizo slow growth
4 grams/1.0% = faster tomo? Or in between?
6 grams/1.5% = fastest tomo/ good recovery from wedges and germination speed.

Any reason to use 1% vs 1.5%?

I got some agar from india that is slow as fuck on 2 gram/.5%. I hate it. It is very rhizo. Im talking nickel diameter in 3 weeks.
Pda wasnt much better.

Testing new sponsor agar on 4 gram/1% brf. Tyc and PE for now.


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Re: Bod's BRF AGAR how to and "test" results [Re: JHOVA]
    #24827793 - 12/05/17 12:06 PM (5 years, 3 months ago)

ive encountered something while trying to filter the brf from the liquid before adding agar.
dont do it. i think the filtering somehow fucked with the nute content because i made two batches.

both were made in the same pot after boiling for a few min. i poured the first bottle but ran the second through a cheese cloth.

anyway the first batch gave great results but the 2nd batch is not doing as well. so i made another batch unfiltered and back to good cultures.

:camping:

Quote:

Any reason to use 1% vs 1.5%?




i like 6g brf to 9g agar per 400-500ml(1.33333%) grows nice healthy cultures.






brf agar also seems to pin like a mofo for me too


Edited by mushboy (12/05/17 12:09 PM)


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Re: Bod's BRF AGAR how to and "test" results [Re: mushboy]
    #24827818 - 12/05/17 12:24 PM (5 years, 3 months ago)

Have you ever heard of agar powder being no good or potentially mixed with other stuff contradicting the label being 100% agar?


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InvisiblebodhisattaMDiscordReddit
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Re: Bod's BRF AGAR how to and "test" results [Re: JHOVA]
    #24827846 - 12/05/17 12:43 PM (5 years, 3 months ago)

Some people have had problematic agar but im not at their place to make sure they're doing things right either.


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Offlinethe_lucky_duck
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Re: Bod's BRF AGAR how to and "test" results [Re: bodhisatta]
    #24827873 - 12/05/17 01:02 PM (5 years, 3 months ago)

Quote:

Jonhova said:
2 grams/.5% = rhizo slow growth
4 grams/1.0% = faster tomo? Or in between?
6 grams/1.5% = fastest tomo/ good recovery from wedges and germination speed.

Any reason to use 1% vs 1.5%?

I got some agar from india that is slow as fuck on 2 gram/.5%. I hate it. It is very rhizo. Im talking nickel diameter in 3 weeks.
Pda wasnt much better.

Testing new sponsor agar on 4 gram/1% brf. Tyc and PE for now.




For what it's worth, based off of this post, this is the agar dish recipe I have come up with and now always use:

9g of agar agar powder
6g of brown rice flour
Dump measured out agar agar and brown rice flour into 500ml media container using a funnel to insure all of it gets into the bottle.
Fill the 500ml media container with tap water until it reaches the 400ml mark.
Make sure it's all dissolved then PC for 20 min. once 15 PSI is reached.


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Re: Bod's BRF AGAR how to and "test" results [Re: the_lucky_duck]
    #24958985 - 02/01/18 07:00 AM (5 years, 1 month ago)

I hate to bump this again Bod but I figured this was the best place to ask you. New to agar so bare with me.

1. Are you saying that you like to germinate on higher nute plate then transfer clean wedge to lower nute plate?
2. Also do you usually just toss the original germination plate if it has contams after a clean transfer or a few transfers?

Really want to try the brf so I can use up my pf tek stash like many others in this thread said.


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InvisiblebodhisattaMDiscordReddit
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Re: Bod's BRF AGAR how to and "test" results [Re: FriendOfTheDevil70]
    #24959088 - 02/01/18 08:25 AM (5 years, 1 month ago)

1. If you want. Doesn't matter
2. I toss it anyway.


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InvisibleZero Nowhere
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Re: Bod's BRF AGAR how to and "test" results [Re: bodhisatta]
    #24960323 - 02/01/18 06:49 PM (5 years, 1 month ago)

Is brf agar an acceptable replacement for Mea  when culturing or cloning?


Edited by Zero Nowhere (02/01/18 06:50 PM)


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InvisiblebodhisattaMDiscordReddit
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Re: Bod's BRF AGAR how to and "test" results [Re: Zero Nowhere]
    #24960460 - 02/01/18 07:31 PM (5 years, 1 month ago)

Of course... Mycelium grows on it


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Re: Bod's BRF AGAR how to and "test" results [Re: bodhisatta]
    #24960517 - 02/01/18 07:59 PM (5 years, 1 month ago)

Ok.  Thanks bod.  I'm just getting started with agar.  I'm glad I don't have to order mea when I have so much brf.i didn't realize it was that simple.


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InvisiblebodhisattaMDiscordReddit
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Re: Bod's BRF AGAR how to and "test" results [Re: Zero Nowhere]
    #24960520 - 02/01/18 08:00 PM (5 years, 1 month ago)

any agar recipe will work unless someone says hey this one didn't work


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InvisibleZero Nowhere
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Re: Bod's BRF AGAR how to and "test" results [Re: bodhisatta]
    #24960528 - 02/01/18 08:07 PM (5 years, 1 month ago)

I really like the idea of the oat steep agar.  No weighing and mixing dry ingredients.  Just the steep and agar.  Could you point me toward an oat steep to agar ratio to get started?  Thanks again Bod.


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Re: Bod's BRF AGAR how to and "test" results [Re: Zero Nowhere]
    #24960529 - 02/01/18 08:09 PM (5 years, 1 month ago)

if you make oats like in my oat tek you can use the "oat water" as is or diluted with some water.


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Re: Bod's BRF AGAR how to and "test" results [Re: bodhisatta]
    #24960551 - 02/01/18 08:19 PM (5 years, 1 month ago)

Ok.  So like 400ml oat steep and 10 grams of agar powder? Sorry bod I'm sure you're a busy man.  I'll leave you be after this. Thanks again.


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InvisiblebodhisattaMDiscordReddit
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Re: Bod's BRF AGAR how to and "test" results [Re: Zero Nowhere]
    #24960581 - 02/01/18 08:32 PM (5 years, 1 month ago)

2% agar is good starting point. that means 8grams in 400mL since 400mL of water is 400grams

or you could say 2% w/v when using grams since the metric equivalency of water 1g=1ml=1cm3


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Re: Bod's BRF AGAR how to and "test" results [Re: bodhisatta]
    #24960583 - 02/01/18 08:34 PM (5 years, 1 month ago)

Thanks Bod.


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InvisibleBumholio
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Re: Bod's BRF AGAR how to and "test" results [Re: Zero Nowhere]
    #25658714 - 12/05/18 09:57 AM (4 years, 3 months ago)

Ima bump this here thread because I've found it very helpful and I'm sure others will too. I've been running in to problems with my agar recently and tbh since I've started I've just followed a 2% recipe and shits been working etc etc.

Lately though I've been struggling to get good growth on my plates using GSA so reading this thread has clued me in TF.

I've new plates arriving tomorrow and cant wait to fuck about with different ratios and see what results I get.

Also this is thread is a great read:kittylaugh:


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Invisiblewildlifesc
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Re: Bod's BRF AGAR how to and "test" results [Re: bodhisatta]
    #27684745 - 03/06/22 07:52 AM (1 year, 15 days ago)

Just tried this last night using a no-pour method.  Sterilized in small mason containers.  There is a lot of sediment at the bottom, not sure if all the BRF is in the sediments and if there is any nutrient left at the surface of the agar for the mycelium.  We'll see...


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Re: Bod's BRF AGAR how to and "test" results [Re: wildlifesc]
    #27684895 - 03/06/22 10:40 AM (1 year, 15 days ago)

It'll be fine


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Offlinenakadash1
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Re: Bod's BRF AGAR how to and "test" results [Re: Violet]
    #28193301 - 02/18/23 03:49 PM (1 month, 8 hours ago)

Hey, thanks for sharing your findings on BRF agar! I want to try this as well, and I was thinking of using higher quantities as you recommended but filtering it for clarity, until I read a post above where somebody did side by side comparisons and had poor results with the filtered batch.

Do you happen to know if anything in BRF actually dissolves  in water, or is it a suspension? I can't argue against the efficacy of your results, but I'm wondering if a lesser percentage works because 100% of the BRF makes its way to the plate, versus using a larger amount of BRF and discarding possibly the higher particulate sized portion of the flour.

I suppose what I want -- a high % of BRF while maintaining high clarity  might simply be impossible.


--------------------
#1 Tek
With utmost care and precision,I work to achieve my fungal mission.
Sterilizing all my tools and space,to ensure not a single spore is out of place.
I carefully select the fungal strain and onto the agar, I make it rain.
With a steady hand and gentle touch, I inoculate the plate without a hitch.
Success is sweet when it's pure and true, and my agar plates are a testament too. A job well done, with no contamination, my fungi inoculation, a thing of  admiration.
JK NO
--Bacteriological Virtuoso aka Master of Mold


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