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Offlinemeltdowner
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Re: Bod's BRF AGAR how to and "test" results [Re: bodhisatta]
    #24708826 - 10/14/17 07:53 AM (6 years, 7 months ago)

Quote:

bodhisatta said:
Use it.
https://www.shroomery.org/forums/showflat.php/Number/21922023




Thanks Bod, you're very helpful.  I really appreciate it.


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InvisiblebodhisattaMDiscordReddit
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Re: Bod's BRF AGAR how to and "test" results [Re: icetech]
    #24709132 - 10/14/17 10:40 AM (6 years, 7 months ago)

Quote:

icetech said:
Quote:

bodhisatta said:
Because its a different recipe.

Like saying why no salt in chocolate milk. Doesn't need it.





Ah.. sorry just been trying to figure why some people use 2 nutrient sources and some use 1.. a actual reason.. someone pm'd me though, all good thanks :smile: sorry for the post.



Basically each recipe is made to work. Theres enough sugars/carbs in BRF additional sugar would hurt performance

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Offlineicetech
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Re: Bod's BRF AGAR how to and "test" results [Re: bodhisatta]
    #24709162 - 10/14/17 10:50 AM (6 years, 7 months ago)

thanks man :smile:

Quote:

bodhisatta said:
Quote:

icetech said:
Quote:

bodhisatta said:
Because its a different recipe.

Like saying why no salt in chocolate milk. Doesn't need it.





Ah.. sorry just been trying to figure why some people use 2 nutrient sources and some use 1.. a actual reason.. someone pm'd me though, all good thanks :smile: sorry for the post.



Basically each recipe is made to work. Theres enough sugars/carbs in BRF additional sugar would hurt performance




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Offlinethewiseguywithaj
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Re: Bod's BRF AGAR how to and "test" results [Re: icetech]
    #24744566 - 10/29/17 12:32 AM (6 years, 7 months ago)

This is what i couldnt find, thanks

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Re: Bod's BRF AGAR how to and "test" results [Re: thewiseguywithaj]
    #24744880 - 10/29/17 07:21 AM (6 years, 7 months ago)

Bod I hope it's okej if I bother this thread with this scenario. These are some cubensis clones on 3 different agar recipes, WBS soak water (unknown nutrient density), DFA at 2% and BRF at 2%. I transferred the cube clones and a Pan Cyan culture in one go to compare growth and speed of recovery on the different recipes. All the cube transfers to BRF look like they are barely surviving, and the Pan Cyan transfer to BRF seems like it stopped growing after a few days.




Could it be that Violet was onto something when she proposed that BRF agar at 1.5% is way too weak? Seriously I'm not looking to start another debate that turns into bashing each others persons. I see you all as my friends or my kids and sometimes I want to beat the crap out of you guys when you're not nice to each other. Violet if you are reading, please present your input without dragging in anything previous to this post right here, please? :smile:

I honestly just want to understand what the difference is between the nutrients and why myc looks so weak on 'my' BRF. I have seen Bod's plates at 1.5% BRF and they look good (from my limited expertise)

I would like to settle this one and for all, what's up with BRF agar and what % strength is equivalent of a nutritious GW agar?


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Re: Bod's BRF AGAR how to and "test" results [Re: Mateja] * 1
    #24744972 - 10/29/17 08:21 AM (6 years, 7 months ago)

Probably because its TOO nutritional. Mycelium grows slower and more tomentose on strong agar. And faster and more rhisomorphic on weaker agar.

I would guess something like 0.5-1% brf plates would be close to grain water. Good luck settling it once and for all

Here's some pictures i never ended up updating the OP with

The best looking , best growing cultures were on 2g or 0.5% plates.
The best germination and pinning were on the stronger plates but the mycelium didn't look as pretty



Heres someone elses

Quote:

ShamanBag said:
I picked the largest and one of the first mushrooms from a golden teacher ms, made some agar plates and cloned it.  I did the same for a huge Orissa India fruit.  I'm trying my hand at agar and cloning for the first time and I think it's time to transfer to new dishes.  I'd like some feedback on what people feel is the best spot to transfer from on these dishes. 

I'd also like to ask about the high from the cloned golden teacher.  I ate about 1.5 grams of the fruit that I cloned and it felt pretty strong. No visuals other than a slight 3d effect on my shower walls but the thing I noticed the most was the intense body high at the beginning of the trip.  I actually didn't like it too much.  I felt extremely slow mo and heavy with loss of coordination and sluggishness.  Is this pretty standard for cubies for most people or does that vary from fruit to fruit?  I'm wondering if I've cloned a fast, big and potent fruit that Im' not going to enjoy because of the body high.






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Re: Bod's BRF AGAR how to and "test" results [Re: bodhisatta]
    #24745072 - 10/29/17 09:12 AM (6 years, 7 months ago)

When it comes to myc it's difficult to be sure there's not some other variable that could be found...

... but I can guarantee you beyond a doubt that answer is wrong.

I'm sorry, but, really? Now you want to suggest your recommended recipe of 1.5% BRF is TOO nutritious?

For one, we've already covered the "TOO nutritional" thing when it comes to grain agars.  That certainly can apply to a number of agar recipe ingredients, but not grain.
Perhaps that point deserved to be driven home more than it was.  We don't get "slower and more tomentose" growth on strong grain media. We don't get "faster and more rhisomorphic" growth on nutritionally weak grain (there's really no such thing).

And secondly, we already know the recipe isn't "too nutritious" according to people with expertise with the media and methods. You don't even have to take my expertise alone if you want. Those Aloha recipes are using 10g malt AND 10g grain in their grain agar medias.  That's 4% total nutritional value, and 2% of it alone is a stronger recipe than you have suggested in this one.  Besides, remember that some percentage of grain matter is stuff like fiber, not 100% carbs/nitro/etc.


"I would guess something like 0.5-1% brf plates would be close to grain water."
A guess indeed. You don't know how much, or as my point is getting at how little, of that nutrition you're boiling into the water, either in your grain preps OR in this recipe.
Quote:

Violet said:
Well good.  According to the evaporative experiments I did determining the rice matter volume of the different settled waters pulled,  your preparation recipe is likely a lot thinner than the grainwater you're using undiluted.  The recipe I offered, developed for the same reasons, has been a perfect and consistent substitution for the grainwater I otherwise use undiluted.  But then again, it might also be the case that my grainwater is also generally stronger than yours thanks to the substrates I use. These things can vary.



I posted a thread detailing one of those experiments somewhere, might be linked in my teks & posts page.

Most people prep grains by bringing it to a boil in its water then keeping the rolling boil going for 15-40 minutes, though we all probably do it a little bit differently.
That grainwater is so nutritious if you don't use enough water (or rinse them I guess) that much of the starch and nutrition they boiled into the water can remain stuck to the grain's surfaces contributing to stickiness.
Despite using at least 3x the volume of water to grains, my grainwater is often so nutritious that it continues to precipitate grain nutrition when I refrigerate it, like if you over-sweeten tea when it's hot then put it in the fridge.

But your BRF recipe only got boiling water poured onto it, then right into the cooker for a short pressure sterilization.

Flouring the grains certainly helps a LOT but I don't think it's nearly as reaching of a guess as yours for me to suppose from experience with BRF agar that you're not infusing a great concentration, of your already demonstrably deficient amount of nutrition, into the agar water.



Mateah I won't venture too confident a guess as to exactly why you see that change in your growth since, as I said, it's possible another variable could be involved, but it is definitely possible that the weak agar recipe is contributing.

Of course, how you're infusing that nutrition into the media plays a hand.  I would feel a bit better about bodhi's recipe if it ensured its nutrition was actually a part of the agar and not just mostly sediment.  That's actually the reason I posted my process... I know how important that aspect is. For all we know discoloration could be little more than dust when we haven't cooked the solvent into the solution.

The good news is that it doesn't matter TOO badly.  It's not what I would want my cultures to look like (perhaps I'm spoiled by how my growth has consistently looked the last 4 years) but it's undoubtable that mycelium will at least run through the agar, so you've got your genetics spread out regardless.  Just sucks if you're looking for changes in growth patterns.


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Re: Bod's BRF AGAR how to and "test" results [Re: Violet]
    #24745073 - 10/29/17 09:12 AM (6 years, 7 months ago)

TLDR. Show me some of your plates that don't look terrible. Like the ones from a few pages back

Keep coming here trying to say it doesn't work well or it's weak. When it clearly does work for its intended purpose very well lol.

Quote:


"I would guess something like 0.5-1% brf plates would be close to grain water."

A guess indeed. You don't know how much, or as my point is getting at how little, of that nutrition you're boiling into the water, either in your grain preps OR in this recipe.




I do make beer for a living and all grain soak water ive tested is under 2% total dissolved solids (which includes sugar and anything else) ever measured TDS before?

So my guess is based on measurements and science at least.

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Re: Bod's BRF AGAR how to and "test" results [Re: bodhisatta] * 1
    #24745106 - 10/29/17 09:33 AM (6 years, 7 months ago)

Wow, you are not only one of the most rude and cocksure posters I have ever encountered but you're far too brazen for your own good.
Especially if you want to be able to claim to not be trying to keep the drama going, because that kind of attitude right there is gonna do just that.

For one, do you have like NO memory WHATSOEVER? :wow:
Quote:

Violet said:
Now you're making shit up...?  Jeez man, time to quit posting
Never said it didn't "Work"
Really if anything I suppose I acknowledged it did
Quote:

Of course, if NOW all of a sudden the only thing you care about is that it 'works' then feel free to keep sharing third-tier agar recipes



But I said you had thin/weak/poor growth, not NO growth.  You had some weak growth so it "works", is that really the last defense you have?

This is a half-step above noob experiment shit, and the noob getting mad when someone who knows the method better tells him it should be better, because it.... worked



Lather, rinse, repeat. :wink:

And even more laughable, you think you're in ANY kind of position right now to say MY plates look bad? :laugh2:
For one I'm mostly just using pure undiluted grainwater so if you want to shit on my agar you're shitting on all grainwater agar including your own :shrug:
Two, when I DO use BRF agar my growth is MUCH thicker and healthier than yours which are no shining example of healthy growth as I already pointed out.
Quote:

Violet said:
I can see how it might, on occasion, be useful to do that on purpose...
but after having done thousands of dishes of settled clear but undiluted grainwater agar and NEVER seeing mycelium look thin, scraggly, and desperately pinning from nutrient deficiency on just the few thick strands they manage like in those 4 big grown-out dishes laying flat, the ones that are from this thread...





My BRF agar. Attacking the quality of this growth is attacking your own credibility.  Anyone here can see.


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Re: Bod's BRF AGAR how to and "test" results [Re: Violet]
    #24745118 - 10/29/17 09:41 AM (6 years, 7 months ago)

Quote:

Violet said:
Wow, you are not only one of the most rude and cocksure posters I have ever encountered but you're far too brazen for your own good.
Especially if you want to be able to claim to not be trying to keep the drama going, because that kind of attitude right there is gonna do just that.

For one, do you have like NO memory WHATSOEVER? :wow:
Quote:

Violet said:
Now you're making shit up...?  Jeez man, time to quit posting
Never said it didn't "Work"
Really if anything I suppose I acknowledged it did
Quote:

Of course, if NOW all of a sudden the only thing you care about is that it 'works' then feel free to keep sharing third-tier agar recipes



But I said you had thin/weak/poor growth, not NO growth.  You had some weak growth so it "works", is that really the last defense you have?

This is a half-step above noob experiment shit, and the noob getting mad when someone who knows the method better tells him it should be better, because it.... worked



Lather, rinse, repeat. :wink:





I really don't care about me. If you want to talk about mushrooms go ahead. People don't like paragraph replies, especially ones like the above. Any more off topic or dragging my awesome personality into this and :bye:


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Re: Bod's BRF AGAR how to and "test" results [Re: bodhisatta]
    #24745144 - 10/29/17 09:56 AM (6 years, 7 months ago)

Off topic.

Please don't try to edit your post after I already kicked you out of this thread.



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Edited by bodhisatta (10/29/17 01:16 PM)

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Re: Bod's BRF AGAR how to and "test" results [Re: Violet]
    #24745170 - 10/29/17 10:07 AM (6 years, 7 months ago)

My work already speaks for itself.

0.5 and 1% plates pin like mad. Poured thicker they support many more pins invitro.
As i said earlier 2%+ works great for germination.



Grain water agar works brilliantly too and at under 2% total dissolved solids it has less than 2% of cumulatively everything dissolved added up.

No fight. People have different opinions.

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InvisibleMateja
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Re: Bod's BRF AGAR how to and "test" results [Re: bodhisatta]
    #24748246 - 10/30/17 05:53 PM (6 years, 7 months ago)

Quote:

bodhisatta said:
here's another small test
all from the same donor ESS plate three wedges were taken each went to a different strength BRF agar
the 1.5% being clearly the strongest recovery.
clearly doing best on the 1.5%




If >1.5% gave "best recovery" then why assume that 2% is "TOO strong"?


Just for the record I'm only pointing out stuff that is contradicting and confusing, I'm not trying to argue. Violet showed Rizo growth on her strong recipes and on her grain/rice and I feel that this contradicts your statements about "too nutritious=tomentose".


And also another thing, the photos of ShamanBag's plates that you showed are actually 2% BRF and you call his recipe in the thread "my weak recipe" but when I posted the same 2% BRF agar you said it was too strong :shrug:

Quote:

ShamanBag said:
To be clear the recipe I used was 10g BRF, 10g Agar Agar, 500ml water.





Bod, I understand mycelium can act weird and is unique, I'm just trying to :takingnotes: as much as possible and I feel that I HAVE TO ask when I see something not right. Can you elaborate on this for me a little? I know you're probably busy but when you have the time!

I'm going to cook BRF agar right now in different recipes from 0.5%-5.0% to see for myself how that clone of mine will change presence and performance when being transferred to both a stronger and weaker recipes. I will report back! Peace


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Re: Bod's BRF AGAR how to and "test" results [Re: Mateja]
    #24748261 - 10/30/17 06:00 PM (6 years, 7 months ago)

spores had the best germination and wedges had the best recovery on the higher nutrition plate, but the best looking growth I've had was on the lower nutrition plates. If you want less tomentose growth use lower nutrition plates. if you want thicker growth pump more nutrition in. Too high of percentage brf and the media gets very gloopy.

for what it's worth a lot of lab grade, and premade agar from vendors gives people bad looking thick tomentose growth.
this isn't really a problem if you're just trying to culture fungi, but we're trying to clean cultures or reduce genetics.

And you get the entire point. try it yourself and post your results. 5% probably works great for germination but the mycelium will probably crawl across the agar twice as slow as a 1% plate.

I like to use what works for me. I like the culture to grow on the agar at a reasonable speed, I prefer it to grow more rhizomprphic if possible, and I like the agar to be transparent.

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Re: Bod's BRF AGAR how to and "test" results [Re: bodhisatta]
    #24827593 - 12/05/17 10:40 AM (6 years, 6 months ago)

2 grams/.5% = rhizo slow growth
4 grams/1.0% = faster tomo? Or in between?
6 grams/1.5% = fastest tomo/ good recovery from wedges and germination speed.

Any reason to use 1% vs 1.5%?

I got some agar from india that is slow as fuck on 2 gram/.5%. I hate it. It is very rhizo. Im talking nickel diameter in 3 weeks.
Pda wasnt much better.

Testing new sponsor agar on 4 gram/1% brf. Tyc and PE for now.


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Re: Bod's BRF AGAR how to and "test" results [Re: JHOVA]
    #24827793 - 12/05/17 12:06 PM (6 years, 6 months ago)

ive encountered something while trying to filter the brf from the liquid before adding agar.
dont do it. i think the filtering somehow fucked with the nute content because i made two batches.

both were made in the same pot after boiling for a few min. i poured the first bottle but ran the second through a cheese cloth.

anyway the first batch gave great results but the 2nd batch is not doing as well. so i made another batch unfiltered and back to good cultures.

:camping:

Quote:

Any reason to use 1% vs 1.5%?




i like 6g brf to 9g agar per 400-500ml(1.33333%) grows nice healthy cultures.






brf agar also seems to pin like a mofo for me too

Edited by mushboy (12/05/17 12:09 PM)

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Re: Bod's BRF AGAR how to and "test" results [Re: mushboy]
    #24827818 - 12/05/17 12:24 PM (6 years, 6 months ago)

Have you ever heard of agar powder being no good or potentially mixed with other stuff contradicting the label being 100% agar?


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Re: Bod's BRF AGAR how to and "test" results [Re: JHOVA]
    #24827846 - 12/05/17 12:43 PM (6 years, 6 months ago)

Some people have had problematic agar but im not at their place to make sure they're doing things right either.

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Re: Bod's BRF AGAR how to and "test" results [Re: bodhisatta]
    #24827873 - 12/05/17 01:02 PM (6 years, 6 months ago)

Quote:

Jonhova said:
2 grams/.5% = rhizo slow growth
4 grams/1.0% = faster tomo? Or in between?
6 grams/1.5% = fastest tomo/ good recovery from wedges and germination speed.

Any reason to use 1% vs 1.5%?

I got some agar from india that is slow as fuck on 2 gram/.5%. I hate it. It is very rhizo. Im talking nickel diameter in 3 weeks.
Pda wasnt much better.

Testing new sponsor agar on 4 gram/1% brf. Tyc and PE for now.




For what it's worth, based off of this post, this is the agar dish recipe I have come up with and now always use:

9g of agar agar powder
6g of brown rice flour
Dump measured out agar agar and brown rice flour into 500ml media container using a funnel to insure all of it gets into the bottle.
Fill the 500ml media container with tap water until it reaches the 400ml mark.
Make sure it's all dissolved then PC for 20 min. once 15 PSI is reached.


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Re: Bod's BRF AGAR how to and "test" results [Re: the_lucky_duck]
    #24958985 - 02/01/18 07:00 AM (6 years, 4 months ago)

I hate to bump this again Bod but I figured this was the best place to ask you. New to agar so bare with me.

1. Are you saying that you like to germinate on higher nute plate then transfer clean wedge to lower nute plate?
2. Also do you usually just toss the original germination plate if it has contams after a clean transfer or a few transfers?

Really want to try the brf so I can use up my pf tek stash like many others in this thread said.


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