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OfflineTzX
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First time mescaline preparation
    #23921754 - 12/13/16 06:09 AM (7 years, 1 month ago)

Hey all,

I have tried psychedelics in the past, but want to do mescaline for the first time now. I will go with San Pedro (Echinopsis/Trichocereus pachanoi).

More specifically, I want to try about 300 mg of mescaline, which supposedly guarantees a moderate to strong trip, lasting 6-8 hours.

Dosage
Here's my preliminary calculation. On this site I read that 400g of fresh cactus contains about 480 mg of mescaline.

I need about 300 mg of mescaline; I will lose some of that in preparation.

-If 0.05% of weight of fresh cactus is mescaline: I need 600g of fresh cactus for 300mg of mescaline.

-If 0.12% of weight of fresh cactus is mescaline: I need 250g of fresh cactus for 300mg of mescaline

For a first time, I will aim to prepare 300-350 grams of fresh cactus. Does that seem like a reasonable calculation to you?


Preparation
I want the simplest method of preparation possible. No cooking, since that supposedly requires me to stay around the pot for hours on end, stirring.

I found this. Does that seem like a good method to you?

Step 4: am I understanding right that peeling the cactus before cutting and blending it is not recommended? (ie: Do I blend it peel and all?)

Step 7: could I simply sift the blended product through a sieve?

Thanks for your help!


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InvisibleMollyLucyMaryJane

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Re: First time mescaline preparation [Re: TzX]
    #23921838 - 12/13/16 07:36 AM (7 years, 1 month ago)

Step 4 is kind of confusing. Lets break it down.

(Original message)
Using a carrot peeler or a small knife, peel the "green skin" off. Try to remove as little of the flesh as possible.

(Erowid Note) The alkaloids in cacti are concentrated toward the outermost part of the plant with the lowest concentration in the core.
There is a "waxy skin over the green layer" in the cactus which is often removed
The "green skin" is not normally peeled off because this results in lost alkaloids.

Basically Erowid added a note to clarify that people shouldnt remove the entire green skin of the cacti, They should only remove the thin waxy layer on the outside.

In my opinion it wouldnt hurt to just skip step 4 entirely and that is what I would probably do if it was me.


As for step 7
Sifting it through a sieve would be impossible as it will be a wet goopy mess.
What I did when I cooked cacti for tea was put it all in a sock and squeeze it through the sock. It worked very well.


I would like to see how this method works for you man give it a shot and good luck!


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OfflineTzX
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Re: First time mescaline preparation [Re: MollyLucyMaryJane]
    #23921914 - 12/13/16 08:25 AM (7 years, 1 month ago)

Hey,

Thank you for the reply. Preparing it seems actually managable now. I will try it in a few months, probably, and maybe I'll do a write-up then.

Anyone have any advice on the dosage? Getting a clear picture of how much cactus I need for what level of effects seems very difficult. Especially because you buy these cacti based on their length, rather than weight, and 2 cacti with same weight might still have a different mescalin content. Any advice there? I'm looking for that moderate dose.


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OfflineMike4aco
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Re: First time mescaline preparation [Re: MollyLucyMaryJane]
    #23922101 - 12/13/16 10:05 AM (7 years, 1 month ago)

Quote:

MollyLucyMaryJane said:

As for step 7
Sifting it through a sieve would be impossible as it will be a wet goopy mess.
What I did when I cooked cacti for tea was put it all in a sock and squeeze it through the sock. It worked very well.


I would like to see how this method works for you man give it a shot and good luck!




The sock method just replaced the T-shirt bro that's genius. When I do cactus I don't think its as important to peel the waxy layer either. Its a little easier to digest without it but its hard as hell to peel. You could put it in a crock pot? I did that for a few hours then put it through a T-shirt and boiled it on high till it was small enough to drink. Went out and left the crock pot for about 6 hours it was fine.

You could always eat it. That cactus tastes gross tho man ive tried 50 something different disgusting tasting psychedelics and mescaline is one of the top 2 or 3 worst tasting ones (in my opinion) try it with ice cream if you do eat it.  My friend did that and said it masked the taste a bit


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OfflineTzX
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Re: First time mescaline preparation [Re: Mike4aco]
    #23924831 - 12/14/16 01:28 AM (7 years, 1 month ago)

I'm thinking about switching to Trichocereus bridgesii (now Echinopsis lageniformis). Supposedly, it provides for less possibility of underwhelming experiences/duds. Any thoughts there?

About the dose: would one foot of this be a good shot at getting that moderate to strong dose?

Thank you


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Offlineergoticmandala
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Re: First time mescaline preparation [Re: TzX]
    #23924966 - 12/14/16 04:52 AM (7 years, 1 month ago)

a foot in most cases will be underwhelming
try a foot and a half, mescalin is slightly forgiving


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OfflineTzX
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Re: First time mescaline preparation [Re: ergoticmandala]
    #23925335 - 12/14/16 09:23 AM (7 years, 1 month ago)

Quote:

ergoticmandala said:
a foot in most cases will be underwhelming
try a foot and a half, mescalin is slightly forgiving




Thanks. Can anyone confirm a foot of bridgesii will likely not be enough for a moderate to strong dose?

Gotta admit, the fact that people can't dose cactus accurately and the conflicting posts on what should be enough, is something of a turnoff :frown:

Thanks for all the help!


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OfflineMike4aco
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Re: First time mescaline preparation [Re: TzX]
    #23925764 - 12/14/16 12:05 PM (7 years, 1 month ago)

Ive had a couple friends try 12 inches of bridgesii and said it didn't really do much. If syzergicsoul is still around and posting ask him of his dud attempts to get an idea of what he did and what to do or not to do


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InvisibleGrey Fox

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Re: First time mescaline preparation [Re: Mike4aco] * 1
    #23925917 - 12/14/16 01:01 PM (7 years, 1 month ago)

With cactus there is a lot of variabilty between species and individual plants. Bridgesii is definitely the most consistent. It is very important to get high quality cuttings to work with. You're looking for older, thicker growth from a plant with good genetics. If you have access to that then 12 inches of bridgesii is definitely adequate.

Another problem that people run into is that they fail to get all of the alkaloids from the cutting. This happens when a brew or extraction is not petformed perfectly, or when any of the solid material is discarded. If you have access to a high quality 12 inch cutting of bridgesii and you dont have a weak stomach then the best option by far is to just eat the cutting. It takes about an hour. It is not fun, but it is not horrific either. It is what it is, and the results are consistently very good.

Best method I know of is: 1) despine the cutting, 2) cut it into manageable sized pieces, 3) peel all of the scotchtape-like skin off while leaving all of the dark green flesh intact on the cutting, and 4) eat all of the cactus, core and all. It really helps to have ice cold lemonade to chase the flavor.

Best luck with whatever you decide to do. IMO this is a very accessible experience that a lot of people muck up because either they are using low quality cactus or they are over thinking how to consume it.


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OfflineTzX
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Re: First time mescaline preparation [Re: Grey Fox]
    #23928328 - 12/15/16 03:32 AM (7 years, 1 month ago)

Thanks for the help.

I'm not going to eat it; it seems like a big, uncomfortaable ordeal.

Edit: found another method that sounds doable.

Quote:

Take your cactus, grab your knife, begin; de-spine, peel, cut into small chunks (Billy Smarts cut inch thick stars from his pedro), dry (on a wire rack with the aid of a fan, or in the oven at lowest setting), once dry pulverize (Billy uses a coffee grinder), once pulverized encapsulate (Billy uses a Cap Em Quick Kit, size 00, though size 000 would be better) once encapsulated swallow, (Billy swallows with cranberry and grapefruit juice in hope of potentiating effects) then sit back and enjoy.




Does the cactus lose a lot of its volume when it's dried, so that it becomes manageable to grind? Any thoughts on this technique?


Edited by TzX (12/15/16 03:49 AM)


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InvisibleGrey Fox

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Re: First time mescaline preparation [Re: TzX]
    #23928517 - 12/15/16 07:35 AM (7 years, 1 month ago)

I don't know anything about that method but best luck to you with it if that's the way you choose to go. I just really hope we don't get another thread in a couple of months about another failed attempt at San Pedro. Seems that threads like that have been piling up in the Psychedelic Experience.


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IT WAS ALL A DREAM


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Offlinepinedownpioneer
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Re: First time mescaline preparation [Re: Grey Fox]
    #23928629 - 12/15/16 08:45 AM (7 years, 1 month ago)

Just do an extract then you can precisely measure dose.  If you have the supplies/equipment you can isolate other alkaloids. Basic chemistry.


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OfflineTzX
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Re: First time mescaline preparation [Re: pinedownpioneer]
    #23928899 - 12/15/16 10:49 AM (7 years, 1 month ago)

Yes, but I have only minimal equipment, and I'm not really prepared (or capable, really) to learn chemistry beyond boiling, potentially, if necessary.

I think I'm going to settle on this seemingly easy and effective method. I'll keep you guys up to date when I do it.


Edited by TzX (12/15/16 10:56 AM)


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InvisibleGrey Fox

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Re: First time mescaline preparation [Re: TzX]
    #23929330 - 12/15/16 01:04 PM (7 years, 1 month ago)

Thanks for sharing that link TzX. Its interesting to learn the different ways that people use the cactus. I notice that post is from 5 years ago. I'm wondering if Asante still does it that way? What I'm noticing about that method is that they are losing material (and therefore alkaloids) by straining while at the same time increasing the overall volume of what has to be consumed by adding equal parts liquid to cactus.


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OfflineTzX
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Re: First time mescaline preparation [Re: Grey Fox]
    #23929359 - 12/15/16 01:15 PM (7 years, 1 month ago)

Quote:

Grey Fox said:
Thanks for sharing that link TzX. Its interesting to learn the different ways that people use the cactus. I notice that post is from 5 years ago. I'm wondering if Asante still does it that way? What I'm noticing about that method is that they are losing material (and therefore alkaloids) by straining while at the same time increasing the overall volume of what has to be consumed by adding equal parts liquid to cactus.




Hmmm, good point... I'm gonna send him a pm and see if he has gotten any new insights since then.


Edited by TzX (12/15/16 01:24 PM)


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InvisibleGrey Fox

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Re: First time mescaline preparation [Re: TzX]
    #23929634 - 12/15/16 02:44 PM (7 years, 1 month ago)

Cool. That's a good idea. I still think eating it is the way to go but I wish you the best with whichever method you choose.


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Offlinenolongrlurkin
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Re: First time mescaline preparation [Re: Grey Fox]
    #23931484 - 12/16/16 03:39 AM (7 years, 1 month ago)

Expect the worst and hope for the best! 2Ft of rs0004+ an undecided quantity of bridgesii.. Four winds? Med man? Lumberjack? I haven't decided.. Originally planned to extract but with my last d.limo producing a 12 hour effect switching between Sedating and stimulating with just a hint of mesc, Ide much rather play it safe and get my fix. Extraction was with dried torch chips.. Supposedly..


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InvisibleGrey Fox

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Re: First time mescaline preparation [Re: nolongrlurkin]
    #23932597 - 12/16/16 02:12 PM (7 years, 1 month ago)

Quote:

nolongrlurkin said:
Expect the worst and hope for the best! 2Ft of rs0004+ an undecided quantity of bridgesii.. Four winds? Med man? Lumberjack? I haven't decided.. Originally planned to extract but with my last d.limo producing a 12 hour effect switching between Sedating and stimulating with just a hint of mesc, Ide much rather play it safe and get my fix. Extraction was with dried torch chips.. Supposedly..





Nice cuttings there nolongrlurkin.


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Re: First time mescaline preparation [Re: Grey Fox]
    #23932758 - 12/16/16 03:17 PM (7 years, 1 month ago)

If you are a bit timid of messing with chemicals as you indicate, you should check out the D-Limonene tek, which is food safe.  You will be left with a tar which you can cap, a bit less pure, though that also means it includes all of the alkoloids that create the experience..just depends what you are looking for. 

It will take you about 30 minutes each day if you let each pull sit for 24 hrs...so its not awful but it does take time between the process and cleanup.


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Invisiblestuckinwonderland
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Re: First time mescaline preparation [Re: mandrin13]
    #23933743 - 12/16/16 09:19 PM (7 years, 1 month ago)

I can not say enough good things about making cactus tea. Reducing it to a small amount of tea and putting it into a glass baking dish to evaporate into a tar. Flour works good for the tar sticking to stuff as does some time in the fridge/freezer. Just roll the tar into little balls and swallow like pills


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InvisibleRakin
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Re: First time mescaline preparation [Re: stuckinwonderland]
    #23933871 - 12/16/16 10:19 PM (7 years, 1 month ago)

Quote:

stuckinwonderland said:
I can not say enough good things about making cactus tea. Reducing it to a small amount of tea and putting it into a glass baking dish to evaporate into a tar. Flour works good for the tar sticking to stuff as does some time in the fridge/freezer. Just roll the tar into little balls and swallow like pills




Worst experience of my life when I did this. I got chocked on the tar balls and almost suffocated before I could get them back up.


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Offlinemandrin13
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Re: First time mescaline preparation [Re: stuckinwonderland]
    #23934814 - 12/17/16 08:54 AM (7 years, 1 month ago)

Quote:

stuckinwonderland said:
I can not say enough good things about making cactus tea. Reducing it to a small amount of tea and putting it into a glass baking dish to evaporate into a tar. Flour works good for the tar sticking to stuff as does some time in the fridge/freezer. Just roll the tar into little balls and swallow like pills




How many balls of tar did it take?  I want to eat it once, I hate the tea, and taking 1 pill is just too damned appealing....which again is why I say D-Limonene...pop the pill and prepare for blast off.


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Edited by mandrin13 (12/17/16 10:10 AM)


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Invisiblestuckinwonderland
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Re: First time mescaline preparation [Re: mandrin13]
    #23936699 - 12/17/16 10:07 PM (7 years, 1 month ago)

It depends on how much you make but it is several. My last batch was like a piece of laffy taffy that you tear pieces off and roll into manageable balls. Really it's quite a bit to consume but it is much easier than a real extraction and not hard to consume.


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OfflineTzX
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Re: First time mescaline preparation [Re: stuckinwonderland]
    #23937125 - 12/18/16 02:36 AM (7 years, 1 month ago)

Thanks for the replies. Making a tea out of it may be the best way, but I really don't like the prospect of having to cook and stir for hours on end. Besides, I could easily see myself messing up the process somewhere.

How about this:

-I despine the cactus
-I cut the cactus in slices a bit less than an inch thick.
-I dry the bridgesii on the lowest setting in an open oven.
-I grind the chips down to a powder in a coffee grinder.
-I take the powder, and chase it down with grapefruit juice.

Anyone have any notes on that? Would it work? This would be easy to prepare, and much easier to ingest than the fresh cactus, and would get me all of the alkaloids, right?

Would I need to peel/de-skin the cactus, or could I just keep it on to be dried and ground? (I read a lot of the psychoactive substances are located in or just beneaeth the skin).

Is there any objection to mixing it with grapefruit juice, as I read tap water, for example, can degrade the alkaloids in the cactus.

Thanks for all the help.


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Re: First time mescaline preparation [Re: TzX]
    #23937359 - 12/18/16 07:59 AM (7 years, 1 month ago)

The lack of effort you wish to include leads me to think your only option is to eat it raw, rather than messing with the powder.


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OfflineTzX
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Re: First time mescaline preparation [Re: mandrin13]
    #23937367 - 12/18/16 08:07 AM (7 years, 1 month ago)

Quote:

mandrin13 said:
The lack of effort you wish to include leads me to think your only option is to eat it raw, rather than messing with the powder.




Not sure I understand you. What would be the problem with making a powder out of it?

I do want to make an effort, I'm just a first timer for mescaline and don't want to complicate it more than necessary, especially because I'm not much of a chemist/kitchen prodigy, so getting a powder and eating it seems like an easy way to get it all in.

Even watching these simplified youtube videos on boiling it leave me with more questions.


Edited by TzX (12/18/16 08:35 AM)


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OfflineTzX
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Re: First time mescaline preparation [Re: TzX]
    #23937435 - 12/18/16 08:50 AM (7 years, 1 month ago)

OK, because some pressure exists in this thread to get me to finally make a tea lol...

Suppose I want to make a bridgesii tea. I'll use this video as a guide.

1: the water I use in this preparation has to be distilled water, right? Because I read that tap water may degrade the alkaloids in the cactus.

2: I blend the cactus pieces which are just covered in water. I add this mixture to a large pot. Do I need to add more water when this mixture is in the pot?

3: I heat the mixture in the pot on low temperature. About what temperature is that? I never get the mixture to boil though because the tea would evaporate with the mescaline, correct? How do I know a stove is actually set to a low temperature?

4: beyond the first half hour, how frequently is stirring needed?

5: I know the mixture is ready when there's a few fingers width left. I can just strain the liquid through a sock or stocking, correct? Couldn't I just use a coffee filter?

6: how long can I leave the final tea in the fridge before drinking it?

Thanks for the help, and sorry for being so anal about it, I want to get it right.


Edited by TzX (12/18/16 09:22 AM)


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Offlinepinedownpioneer
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Re: First time mescaline preparation [Re: TzX]
    #23937799 - 12/18/16 11:43 AM (7 years, 1 month ago)

Chop up cacti
Freeze
Put cacti in pot, squeeze in lemon, add water
Simmer down to a small amount
Strain cacti put the reduced water in an empty pot.
Add cacti, fresh water, and lemon.
Repeat this at least 3x
Combine all the liquid and reduce to a small cup size or tar.
You'll want to brew some ginger tea and drink this before and after you drink your snot tea. It will help with nausea.  Once you go through the tea method you'll see why an extract is recommended by me.
You don't have to use distilled but imo distilled is better.
Set stove on low and simmer. You know it's on low because you set the dial to low.
Water vapor evaporates not the mesc. 
Stir as much as you want, you can't over stir.
It's not rocket science you are just simmering cacti. It's hard to mess it up.  You'll want lots of water and enough heat to simmer.  Imo a stb extract is easier.


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Re: First time mescaline preparation [Re: TzX]
    #23937975 - 12/18/16 12:58 PM (7 years, 1 month ago)

Quote:

TzX said:
Quote:

mandrin13 said:
The lack of effort you wish to include leads me to think your only option is to eat it raw, rather than messing with the powder.




Not sure I understand you. What would be the problem with making a powder out of it?

I do want to make an effort, I'm just a first timer for mescaline and don't want to complicate it more than necessary, especially because I'm not much of a chemist/kitchen prodigy, so getting a powder and eating it seems like an easy way to get it all in.

Even watching these simplified youtube videos on boiling it leave me with more questions.




I have read that consuing the powder is very unpleasant.  It is a lot of powder, and that dry powder will expand in your stomach.  I have no personal experience though.

Boiling is not difficult if you are around, you dont stand over it all day, just check it every 30 minutes and add water if it is getting low.  Eating it sounds gross, but would be the simplest method.


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OfflineTzX
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Re: First time mescaline preparation [Re: mandrin13]
    #23938199 - 12/18/16 02:15 PM (7 years, 1 month ago)

Looks like I'm finally settling it then - boiling it is. Thanks for all the help!


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InvisibleGrey Fox

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Re: First time mescaline preparation [Re: TzX]
    #23939354 - 12/18/16 10:09 PM (7 years, 1 month ago)

Good luck with your first brew! :thumbup:

Let us know how it turns out!

You might want to take more than 1 foot of bridge if you're going to brew. I think 1 foot is a good baseline if you're going to eat it. But if you're going to brew or extract you're probably going to need closer to 2 foot to get comparable effects IMO. Some of the magic is always lost when its processed.


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OfflinePandemoon
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Re: First time mescaline preparation [Re: Grey Fox]
    #23942173 - 12/20/16 12:47 AM (7 years, 1 month ago)

I want to add that eating a plant raw isn't really a problem.

Preperation takes about one hour or two (instead of ten?), it's the quickest I know.


To "eat it raw" you despine the cutting, peel off the waxy skin, and seperate the dark green flesh from the white core.
The green flesh is then bleded/purreed with half a cup of water to a green, slimy mass, that's it.

You have to drink maybe four or five cups of liquid instead of one, but you can be sure to have no loss of actives at all!

The taste is bad for sure, but any concentrated boil tastes even worse.

I never got sick or nauseous from eating a cactus raw. Eating concentrated tar or tea made my stomache hurt all the time.

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Re: First time mescaline preparation [Re: Pandemoon]
    #23942402 - 12/20/16 04:11 AM (7 years, 1 month ago)

Quote:

Pandemoon said:
I want to add that eating a plant raw isn't really a problem.

Preperation takes about one hour or two (instead of ten?), it's the quickest I know.


To "eat it raw" you despine the cutting, peel off the waxy skin, and seperate the dark green flesh from the white core.
The green flesh is then bleded/purreed with half a cup of water to a green, slimy mass, that's it.

You have to drink maybe four or five cups of liquid instead of one, but you can be sure to have no loss of actives at all!

The taste is bad for sure, but any concentrated boil tastes even worse.

I never got sick or nauseous from eating a cactus raw. Eating concentrated tar or tea made my stomache hurt all the time.

-




*sigh* lol

Thanks for the reply.

So you would discard the core. Am I going to lose a lot of psychoactive substance like this?

From here

Quote:

A study of trichocereus terscheckii found that the alkaloid concentration on a weight basis was strongest in the outer green tissue, however the same study found that despite having less alkaloids per weight the core tissues contained the majority of the alkaloids. People who throw away cores are throwing away something like 2/3 of their alkaloids.






Drinking this slimy mass, would I have to suppress my gag reflex? Is it disgusting, apart from the taste?

I'm sorry to hear about what's happening in Germany.

EDIT: disregard, all reports say eating the blended mass is pretty disgusting.


Edited by TzX (12/20/16 07:23 AM)


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InvisibleGrey Fox

Registered: 01/22/15
Posts: 2,652
Re: First time mescaline preparation [Re: TzX]
    #23942503 - 12/20/16 06:47 AM (7 years, 1 month ago)

Actives are found in lower concentrations in the white flesh and core... however they are still present.  A quality, thick 1 foot cutting of bridge has enough alkaloids in it to achieve blast off for sure, but that includes what's in the white flesh and core.  If you're going to just use the green flesh you're going to need more cactus for the same effect.  Anytime you remove any part of the cactus other than the spines and waxy skin you are losing alkaloids.  That includes straining or discarding any solids as part of the brewing or extraction process.  Why do you think these guys are doing multiple pulls on the same material?  Because they are trying to get the most that they can from the solid material before discarding it... but they never get it all.  You also have to wonder to what extent actives have been degraded by all of the processing.


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Offlinepinedownpioneer
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Registered: 03/28/10
Posts: 2,536
Loc: TX
Last seen: 4 years, 8 months
Re: First time mescaline preparation [Re: Grey Fox]
    #23942515 - 12/20/16 06:54 AM (7 years, 1 month ago)

Cactus is the most disgusting thing I've ever tried.  It made me like foods that I previously found unappealing.


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InvisibleGrey Fox

Registered: 01/22/15
Posts: 2,652
Re: First time mescaline preparation [Re: pinedownpioneer]
    #23942527 - 12/20/16 07:02 AM (7 years, 1 month ago)

ICE COLD Lemonade


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