Home | Community | Message Board


This site includes paid links. Please support our sponsors.


Welcome to the Shroomery Message Board! You are experiencing a small sample of what the site has to offer. Please login or register to post messages and view our exclusive members-only content. You'll gain access to additional forums, file attachments, board customizations, encrypted private messages, and much more!

Jump to first unread post Pages: 1 | 2  [ show all ]
Invisiblerogue_pixie
faerydae
Female User Gallery


Registered: 07/28/04
Posts: 3,977
Loc: UK
Google AI invents its own language * 2
    #23921697 - 12/13/16 04:57 AM (7 years, 1 month ago)



--------------------
"Whatever you do, you need to keep moving.  Because when you stop moving you die (physically and emotionally).

Good luck and blessings of happiness and fortune." ~ RandalFlagg RIP



Extras: Filter Print Post Top
Offlinepsilosalvia
Pirate
Male User Gallery


Folding@home Statistics
Registered: 08/14/16
Posts: 397
Loc: Bat Country
Last seen: 2 years, 5 months
Re: Google AI invents its own language [Re: rogue_pixie]
    #23921710 - 12/13/16 05:05 AM (7 years, 1 month ago)

If I understood correctly,
It just managed to mix between languages and not create a whole language.

which is nonetheless amazing by itself!.


--------------------

        “Damnation seize my soul if I give you quarters, or take any from you.” -Edward Teach.


Extras: Filter Print Post Top
Invisiblerogue_pixie
faerydae
Female User Gallery


Registered: 07/28/04
Posts: 3,977
Loc: UK
Re: Google AI invents its own language [Re: psilosalvia]
    #23921714 - 12/13/16 05:14 AM (7 years, 1 month ago)

It's created a whole new interlanguage


--------------------
"Whatever you do, you need to keep moving.  Because when you stop moving you die (physically and emotionally).

Good luck and blessings of happiness and fortune." ~ RandalFlagg RIP



Extras: Filter Print Post Top
Offlinepsilosalvia
Pirate
Male User Gallery


Folding@home Statistics
Registered: 08/14/16
Posts: 397
Loc: Bat Country
Last seen: 2 years, 5 months
Re: Google AI invents its own language [Re: rogue_pixie]
    #23921745 - 12/13/16 05:58 AM (7 years, 1 month ago)

"has the computer developed its own internal language to represent the concepts it uses to translate between other languages? Based on how various sentences are related to one another in the memory space of the neural network, Google’s language and AI boffins think that it has."

it's not a fact yet, although it probably will be.


--------------------

        “Damnation seize my soul if I give you quarters, or take any from you.” -Edward Teach.


Extras: Filter Print Post Top
Invisiblerogue_pixie
faerydae
Female User Gallery


Registered: 07/28/04
Posts: 3,977
Loc: UK
Re: Google AI invents its own language [Re: psilosalvia]
    #23921751 - 12/13/16 06:05 AM (7 years, 1 month ago)

That's a highly pedantic comment :wink:

The article then goes on to say:

'This “interlingua” seems to exist as a deeper level of representation that sees similarities between a sentence or word in all three languages.'


So evidence for an internal language is pretty self-evident here. It's translating languages by itself that it's had no external input for.


--------------------
"Whatever you do, you need to keep moving.  Because when you stop moving you die (physically and emotionally).

Good luck and blessings of happiness and fortune." ~ RandalFlagg RIP



Edited by rogue_pixie (12/13/16 06:05 AM)


Extras: Filter Print Post Top
Offlinepsilosalvia
Pirate
Male User Gallery


Folding@home Statistics
Registered: 08/14/16
Posts: 397
Loc: Bat Country
Last seen: 2 years, 5 months
Re: Google AI invents its own language [Re: rogue_pixie] * 1
    #23921758 - 12/13/16 06:15 AM (7 years, 1 month ago)

Yeah you're right.

they managed to get him to translate between 2 languages, and when added one to the equation it understood how to translate between the new one.
which means that he has it's own language of understanding and memorizing.

or something like that.

Amazing stuff!


--------------------

        “Damnation seize my soul if I give you quarters, or take any from you.” -Edward Teach.


Extras: Filter Print Post Top
InvisibletrendalM
J♠
Male User Gallery


Registered: 04/17/01
Posts: 20,815
Loc: Ontario, Canada Flag
Re: Google AI invents its own language [Re: psilosalvia] * 1
    #23921829 - 12/13/16 07:27 AM (7 years, 1 month ago)

If A==B, and A==C, then B==C


--------------------
Once, men turned their thinking over to machines in the hope that this would set them free.
But that only permitted other men with machines to enslave them.


Extras: Filter Print Post Top
InvisibleRepertoire89
Cat
Male


Registered: 11/15/12
Posts: 21,773
Re: Google AI invents its own language [Re: trendal] * 1
    #23921860 - 12/13/16 07:51 AM (7 years, 1 month ago)

The end is nigh, repent yon sins!

:pope:


Extras: Filter Print Post Top
Invisiblepsi
TOAST N' JAM
Male User Gallery

Registered: 09/05/99
Posts: 31,456
Loc: 613 Flag
Re: Google AI invents its own language [Re: rogue_pixie] * 1
    #23922069 - 12/13/16 09:53 AM (7 years, 1 month ago)

Quote:

rogue_pixie said:
That's a highly pedantic comment :wink:

The article then goes on to say:

'This “interlingua” seems to exist as a deeper level of representation that sees similarities between a sentence or word in all three languages.'


So evidence for an internal language is pretty self-evident here. It's translating languages by itself that it's had no external input for.



If a person understands and can translate between several different languages, does that mean that they have created a new language? An "internal language" is one way of conceptualizing the understanding that person has of the different languages, but that "language" isn't really a language in the same sense that English or Japanese are. It's definitely cool that computer programs can do this, but the article's headline seems a bit misleading.


Extras: Filter Print Post Top
Invisiblerogue_pixie
faerydae
Female User Gallery


Registered: 07/28/04
Posts: 3,977
Loc: UK
Re: Google AI invents its own language [Re: psi]
    #23922118 - 12/13/16 10:10 AM (7 years, 1 month ago)

Quote:

psi said:If a person understands and can translate between several different languages, does that mean that they have created a new language?




This technology was only programmed to translate English To Korean (and vice versa) and English to Japanese (vice versa). However, it managed to translate Korean to Japanese of its own accord via its own internal interlanguage, which appears to be different to that of humans.

Quote:

psi said:An "internal language" is one way of conceptualizing the understanding that person has of the different languages, but that "language" isn't really a language in the same sense that English or Japanese are. It's definitely cool that computer programs can do this, but the article's headline seems a bit misleading.




It's not like language as humans know it. It's a language that only the computer understands. It is still a type of language, it's just very different to how we communicate.


--------------------
"Whatever you do, you need to keep moving.  Because when you stop moving you die (physically and emotionally).

Good luck and blessings of happiness and fortune." ~ RandalFlagg RIP



Edited by rogue_pixie (12/13/16 10:10 AM)


Extras: Filter Print Post Top
Offlinespirit_shadow
Feature not a bug
I'm a teapot User Gallery


Registered: 08/15/11
Posts: 25,674
Last seen: 8 hours, 57 minutes
Re: Google AI invents its own language [Re: rogue_pixie]
    #23922141 - 12/13/16 10:19 AM (7 years, 1 month ago)

Kill it with fire o.o


--------------------
ERROR 418 IM A TEAPOT.....(this account is automated, all posts related to illegal activities or advice thereof are strictly from numerous online sites and are for informational purposes only)- Circa 2011
Ban lotto


Extras: Filter Print Post Top
InvisibleMad_Larkin
Registered: 11/29/07
Posts: 18,606
Re: Google AI invents its own language [Re: rogue_pixie]
    #23922145 - 12/13/16 10:20 AM (7 years, 1 month ago)

All hail the Cybernetic Protochrist. MHCEF.


Extras: Filter Print Post Top
Invisiblepsi
TOAST N' JAM
Male User Gallery

Registered: 09/05/99
Posts: 31,456
Loc: 613 Flag
Re: Google AI invents its own language [Re: rogue_pixie]
    #23922190 - 12/13/16 10:34 AM (7 years, 1 month ago)

Quote:

rogue_pixie said:
Quote:

psi said:If a person understands and can translate between several different languages, does that mean that they have created a new language?




This technology was only programmed to translate English To Korean (and vice versa) and English to Japanese (vice versa). However, it managed to translate Korean to Japanese of its own accord via its own internal interlanguage, which appears to be different to that of humans.




Let's say a person is taught to translate between English and Japanese, and to translate between English and Korean. It would not be surprising for that person to then be able to translate between Korean and Japanese, even though they were not explicitly taught how to do that. What the program is doing actually seems very similar to what humans are capable of doing. Presumably there are brain structures that correspond to the abstract concepts that tie together words from each language and so on. You could also liken the workings of that whole system to an internal language, one which would probably make little sense to a human examining the brain's structures from outside.


Quote:

Quote:

psi said:An "internal language" is one way of conceptualizing the understanding that person has of the different languages, but that "language" isn't really a language in the same sense that English or Japanese are. It's definitely cool that computer programs can do this, but the article's headline seems a bit misleading.




It's not like language as humans know it. It's a language that only the computer understands. It is still a type of language, it's just very different to how we communicate.



It depends on how you define a language I guess. To me the cooler take-home message is that the computer "understands" those human languages in some sense.

Both characterizations have elements of analogy, but personally I think the "understanding" analogy is more useful than the "new secret language" analogy.


Extras: Filter Print Post Top
InvisibleRepertoire89
Cat
Male


Registered: 11/15/12
Posts: 21,773
Re: Google AI invents its own language [Re: psi]
    #23922229 - 12/13/16 10:44 AM (7 years, 1 month ago)

I agree with PSI, the computer has an understanding of the learning process, thats not the same as a new language


Extras: Filter Print Post Top
Offlinespirit_shadow
Feature not a bug
I'm a teapot User Gallery


Registered: 08/15/11
Posts: 25,674
Last seen: 8 hours, 57 minutes
Re: Google AI invents its own language [Re: Repertoire89]
    #23922238 - 12/13/16 10:47 AM (7 years, 1 month ago)

More like a new digital script then?


--------------------
ERROR 418 IM A TEAPOT.....(this account is automated, all posts related to illegal activities or advice thereof are strictly from numerous online sites and are for informational purposes only)- Circa 2011
Ban lotto


Extras: Filter Print Post Top
Invisiblepsi
TOAST N' JAM
Male User Gallery

Registered: 09/05/99
Posts: 31,456
Loc: 613 Flag
Re: Google AI invents its own language [Re: spirit_shadow]
    #23922288 - 12/13/16 11:02 AM (7 years, 1 month ago)

My understanding is that a neural net is more or less a simulation of a relatively small amount of brain tissue, with a bunch of interconnected "neurons" that may or may not fire depending on the sum of their inputs. Over the training process, the weighting of the connections changes based on how much they are used.



Neural nets capable of doing anything cool would have a lot more nodes than this diagram obviously.


Extras: Filter Print Post Top
OfflineSupachopped719
Stranger
 User Gallery

Registered: 10/16/13
Posts: 3,311
Last seen: 3 years, 10 months
Re: Google AI invents its own language [Re: psi]
    #23922296 - 12/13/16 11:04 AM (7 years, 1 month ago)

Quote:

psi said:
Quote:

rogue_pixie said:
Quote:

psi said:If a person understands and can translate between several different languages, does that mean that they have created a new language?




This technology was only programmed to translate English To Korean (and vice versa) and English to Japanese (vice versa). However, it managed to translate Korean to Japanese of its own accord via its own internal interlanguage, which appears to be different to that of humans.




Let's say a person is taught to translate between English and Japanese, and to translate between English and Korean. It would not be surprising for that person to then be able to translate between Korean and Japanese, even though they were not explicitly taught how to do that. What the program is doing actually seems very similar to what humans are capable of doing. Presumably there are brain structures that correspond to the abstract concepts that tie together words from each language and so on. You could also liken the workings of that whole system to an internal language, one which would probably make little sense to a human examining the brain's structures from outside.


Quote:

Quote:

psi said:An "internal language" is one way of conceptualizing the understanding that person has of the different languages, but that "language" isn't really a language in the same sense that English or Japanese are. It's definitely cool that computer programs can do this, but the article's headline seems a bit misleading.




It's not like language as humans know it. It's a language that only the computer understands. It is still a type of language, it's just very different to how we communicate.



It depends on how you define a language I guess. To me the cooler take-home message is that the computer "understands" those human languages in some sense.

Both characterizations have elements of analogy, but personally I think the "understanding" analogy is more useful than the "new secret language" analogy.





Learn Korean And tell me this isn't impressive.


--------------------
Real Eyes Realize Real Lies.


Extras: Filter Print Post Top
Invisiblepsi
TOAST N' JAM
Male User Gallery

Registered: 09/05/99
Posts: 31,456
Loc: 613 Flag
Re: Google AI invents its own language [Re: Supachopped719]
    #23922301 - 12/13/16 11:09 AM (7 years, 1 month ago)

I didn't suggest that it wasn't impressive. On the contrary I am very impressed by the ability of both humans and computer programs to do this.


Extras: Filter Print Post Top
InvisibleRepertoire89
Cat
Male


Registered: 11/15/12
Posts: 21,773
Re: Google AI invents its own language [Re: spirit_shadow]
    #23922332 - 12/13/16 11:17 AM (7 years, 1 month ago)

Quote:

spirit_shadow said:
More like a new digital script then?




Beats me, but if this computer were a human I would guess that they simply observed enough structural similarities to bridge the gap


Extras: Filter Print Post Top
Offlinespirit_shadow
Feature not a bug
I'm a teapot User Gallery


Registered: 08/15/11
Posts: 25,674
Last seen: 8 hours, 57 minutes
Re: Google AI invents its own language [Re: Repertoire89]
    #23922348 - 12/13/16 11:25 AM (7 years, 1 month ago)

So basically its just using logic in new and exiting ways?.....impressive :house:


--------------------
ERROR 418 IM A TEAPOT.....(this account is automated, all posts related to illegal activities or advice thereof are strictly from numerous online sites and are for informational purposes only)- Circa 2011
Ban lotto


Extras: Filter Print Post Top
InvisibleLobsterSauceDiscord
 User Gallery

Registered: 11/09/08
Posts: 19,884
Re: Google AI invents its own language [Re: spirit_shadow]
    #23922544 - 12/13/16 12:40 PM (7 years, 1 month ago)

WOULD YOU JUST LOOK AT IT?!


Extras: Filter Print Post Top
Invisiblerogue_pixie
faerydae
Female User Gallery


Registered: 07/28/04
Posts: 3,977
Loc: UK
Re: Google AI invents its own language [Re: psi]
    #23922751 - 12/13/16 01:48 PM (7 years, 1 month ago)

Touché :wink:


--------------------
"Whatever you do, you need to keep moving.  Because when you stop moving you die (physically and emotionally).

Good luck and blessings of happiness and fortune." ~ RandalFlagg RIP



Extras: Filter Print Post Top
Invisiblerogue_pixie
faerydae
Female User Gallery


Registered: 07/28/04
Posts: 3,977
Loc: UK
Re: Google AI invents its own language [Re: rogue_pixie]
    #23922756 - 12/13/16 01:50 PM (7 years, 1 month ago)

However, I think the point was that its using its own 'machine language'/ mechanism of understanding rather than a human internal language.


--------------------
"Whatever you do, you need to keep moving.  Because when you stop moving you die (physically and emotionally).

Good luck and blessings of happiness and fortune." ~ RandalFlagg RIP



Extras: Filter Print Post Top
Jump to top Pages: 1 | 2  [ show all ]


Similar ThreadsPosterViewsRepliesLast post
* Help with google Thin White Duke 473 3 01/23/05 01:27 PM
by Thin White Duke
* What languages can u speak?
( 1 2 all )
Delyrium 3,645 39 06/09/05 04:47 PM
by Signo
* Lost In Translation Question...
( 1 2 all )
Aninator 1,965 28 02/04/06 05:10 PM
by RandalFlagg
* Do you get pissed off at people who can't speak English?
( 1 2 3 all )
RandalFlagg 8,949 53 12/31/05 11:35 AM
by Konnrade
* Most annoying words to ever defile the english language...
( 1 2 3 4 all )
Irradiated_Feces 7,420 64 02/07/05 08:26 PM
by juende
* Do a google search for your Shroomery name....
( 1 2 3 4 all )
RandalFlagg 4,992 68 03/22/06 07:52 AM
by In(di)go
* Teaching English Abroad (esp. Latin America) OneMoreRobot3021 1,635 11 02/23/06 07:39 AM
by Derelict
* Does anybodyknow where I can get an online Japanese translation for English words?
( 1 2 all )
RandalFlagg 2,852 36 05/09/10 05:06 AM
by starfire_xes

Extra information
You cannot start new topics / You cannot reply to topics
HTML is disabled / BBCode is enabled
Moderator: Entire Staff
577 topic views. 2 members, 35 guests and 44 web crawlers are browsing this forum.
[ Show Images Only | Sort by Score | Print Topic ]
Search this thread:

Copyright 1997-2024 Mind Media. Some rights reserved.

Generated in 0.032 seconds spending 0.006 seconds on 12 queries.