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Invisible2Experimental
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The Bible
    #2392145 - 03/01/04 08:06 PM (13 years, 9 months ago)

I'd really like some expert opinion on this... Alot of us around here use the term " bible", but which version is most accurate? Having been raised christian, we always used the NIV, or the King james version.
Ive heard numerous times from several locations, that the NiV is handed down from a text that was altered by the romans, to fit thier needs somehow.
Im trying to get to the root of Jesus' teachings, and the most acurate accounts from the people who lived way back when, during those times.
What version do you people accept to be true, and why?

What has happened to the Original text, and who has changed it, and what did they add and WHY?

Is there even an original, or is it disputed by the MANY religions who has the TRUE bible?


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OfflineTwirling
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Re: The Bible [Re: 2Experimental]
    #2392188 - 03/01/04 08:19 PM (13 years, 9 months ago)

Well, unless you read Hebrew, none of it is completely original. Even then, there are debates about which parts were edited, taken out, etc...

The other problem, is the Bible is a collection of different writings from different sources, not necessarily written with the intent to become apart of "The Bible". So it's hard to say what is and isn't the "true" Bible.


My advice (and this is just advice) is to focus on whatever positive elements you find, no matter where it's from. So long as it helps you grow as a person, or gives you insight, it doesn't matter if it's exact.


Ouside of that though, if you're looking for something that is as close as possible, I'd wait for someone else to recommend something.


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OfflineMAIA
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Re: The Bible [Re: 2Experimental]
    #2392327 - 03/01/04 09:02 PM (13 years, 9 months ago)

Personally, i like to pay special attention to Jesus words. Although other writings can be interesting, i believe the essence of the bible are Jesus words and the way you make the interpretation of those words.

MAIA


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Spiritual being, living a human experience ... The Shroomery Mandala



Use, do not abuse; neither abstinence nor excess ever renders man happy.
Voltaire


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Offlinecastaway
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Re: The Bible [Re: 2Experimental]
    #2393294 - 03/02/04 02:13 AM (13 years, 9 months ago)

I've only recently discovered the Apocrifa and haven't delved into it much; but what I have read appears to be usefull


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Offlinegnrm23
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Re: The Bible [Re: 2Experimental]
    #2394162 - 03/02/04 09:07 AM (13 years, 9 months ago)

the apocrypha are merely the tip of the iceberg as regards relevant period texts...
as to what is essential, or core, or canonical, or revelaled, or inspired, or (fill-in-the-blank-here) whatever...
different "biblical scholars" have widely divergent opinions on what's what in the "new testament" of the "christian bible"...

as to "who was this man?"
---> jesus himself asked this question of his disciples: "who do people say i am?", & after hearing various answers asked them "and who do you say i am?", & peter boldly proclaimed his belief that jesus was the massiach they had been awaiting...
(now as to what messiah (the annointed one of israel) meant to most jews (well, the pharisees & essenes & zealots were waiting; the saducees didn't believe in that coming-messiah & resurrection-day claptrap) of that time, and what messiah (greek: christos) means to a modern christian may not have a lot in common :wink: ...)
if you wish to continue this, i have long been fascinated by how christianity came to be a world religion...
~
like the carpenter rabbi, yeshua bar yusef, said to his friends:
shalom aleichem (peace be with you)


--------------------
old enough to know better
not old enough to care


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Invisibleshriek
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Re: The Bible [Re: 2Experimental]
    #2394169 - 03/02/04 09:14 AM (13 years, 9 months ago)

concidering how many times the bible has been rewritten and how diffrent all thousands translations is i say an accurate bible is somewhat an oxymoron


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OfflineMNS
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Re: The Bible [Re: shriek]
    #2394347 - 03/02/04 10:35 AM (13 years, 9 months ago)

I do not think that the Bible is compleatly true. It has been translated and interperted probaly a lot more than we know. I just look at it as a book of stories that we should look at as an example on how we should live our lives, and such. IMO.


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Invisible2Experimental
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Re: The Bible [Re: gnrm23]
    #2395151 - 03/02/04 03:11 PM (13 years, 9 months ago)

... how does the "messiah" differ then from now? Your post was kinda jumbled but I think this is what you were saying? How are the veiws changed


"the saducees didn't believe in that coming-messiah"
they dident? I thought they studied the old testament texts and saw the prophecies for a coming christ?


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Offlinegnrm23
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Re: The Bible [Re: MNS]
    #2395239 - 03/02/04 03:29 PM (13 years, 9 months ago)

but, as the obvious source for much of what passes as worldciv (or at least the driving motif for euro-kultur), the bible (and its church) is "the book" (mmmmkay?)
now, is it "history" or "polemic" or "folk wisdom" or what?
can we recognize it as "myth" without dismissing it as "fable" (or as "lies" or "delusions") ?
(because, friends, a deep myth is more than a bunch of random scribblings set down to pass the time...)
~
as for "the original tongues" - jesus spoke in aramaic; the ritual temple language of most jews was hebrew; the eastern mediterranean trade speech was koine; the language of the early christian communities was often greek; and latin was the speech of the empire... (and the bible was forbidden to be translated in euro vernacular (after the vulgate edition, which was derived from jerome's latin version) for over 1000 years; early translators faced persecution, excommunication, execution... (see: waldenses); martin luther's translation of the bible into german in the early 1500s was a major step in getting the scriptures into the hands of the volk... (the king james english version did not get published until 1611, although much of the prose was taken directly from the english translation work of wyckliffe...)
~
as a record of the dealings between a chosen people and its god, and as a recollection of the results following an invasion of this world by forces divine, well...
we have few other works to compare the bible to... (let us ignore, for now, the proclivity that monotheistic cultures seem to have for destroying the writings & lore of "the others" (the goyim; the unsaved; the infidels --> thus have said & done: the jews, the christians, the muslims...)
~
deep myths can contain profound truths...
able to move men and women to live and die for truths that touch the heart more surely than mere facts...
~
~


--------------------
old enough to know better
not old enough to care


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InvisibleTrueBrode
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Re: The Bible [Re: 2Experimental]
    #2395852 - 03/02/04 05:45 PM (13 years, 9 months ago)

Markosthegnostic will probably give you a much better answer than I, though the answer to this question can be pretty complex. Basically, here's the deal: the Catholic (universal form of Christianity) Bible was put together based off the Old and New testaments, and some of the apocryphal texts were also used in the early theology of the Catholic Church. I can't say with certainty how much of the apocryphal texts, actually appear in the in New Testament and Catholic Bible- I'm assuming they have to though since the ideas of Hell and The Garden of Eden were directly from Apocryphal texts, unless those were drawn in by theologians, and not present in the New Testament.

Jerome (An early Christian theologian) supposedly went through great efforts (bringing in experts of the Hebrew language) to translate the Old Testament (written in Hebrew, and written over the course of approximately 800 years) and the New Testament (written in Greek), to create the Latin Catholic, canonical bible. This is the bible that the King James Version is based off of- hence, yes, the Roman bible created by the Papacy (or early proponents of a Papal Christian rule) in the- if I remember correctly- 4th century at one of the councils at Nicea, is the predecessor of the King James Version.

There was a thread here recently that you may want to look up in which Markos goes into a couple of the flaws in the translation of the New Testament into the Latin version. Suffice to say, with the influence of the early Catholic theologians, as well as their obvious influence in the way certain words were translated, as well as the interpretations of the theologians of the times, the words of the King James Bible are, and were, anything but definite portrayals of true "Christian" thought. However, the Gospels are supposedly much better in conveying the true word of Christ, especially the Gospel of John, which is quite interesting- try the Old English, which is far more rewarding. Remember, Christ supposedly lived in accordance to the Old Testament, but he did not write it, nor have any influence on it. This is why you want to look at the Gospels when understanding Christ, because they were written by his disciples, who actually lived and practiced religion with Christ. John (formally Sal) was almost directly responsible for the spread of Christianity, or at least "getting the word out."


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OfflineTheShroomHermit
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Re: The Bible [Re: 2Experimental]
    #2397581 - 03/03/04 10:14 AM (13 years, 9 months ago)

>which version is most accurate?
-Any verson with Matthew 24:34 "This generation shall not pass, till all these things be fulfilled." is innaccurate. This phrase places the second comming of Christ over 1970 years late.


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OfflineMarkostheGnostic
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Re: The Bible [Re: TrueBrode]
    #2399209 - 03/03/04 05:23 PM (13 years, 9 months ago)

Thanks for the vote of confidence. I'll only add that any modern reading like The New International Version or The Revised Standard Version (which we used in seminary) will give a portrayal of the personality of Jesus of Nazareth. All nit-picking aside - THIS is the crux of the importance of the Gospels IMHO - the sense one comes away with as to the personality of Jesus. Yes, He had emotions: grief, anger, even arrogance! [Matthew 15:21-28], but running through, and rising above all those emotions was Compassion. The Word is Compassion.


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γνῶθι σαὐτόν - Gnothi Seauton - Know Thyself


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OfflineFunguy
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Re: The Bible [Re: TheShroomHermit]
    #2401898 - 03/04/04 11:15 AM (13 years, 9 months ago)

Quote:

TheShroomHermit said:
>which version is most accurate?
-Any verson with Matthew 24:34 "This generation shall not pass, till all these things be fulfilled." is innaccurate. This phrase places the second comming of Christ over 1970 years late.




Actually, many theologians suspect that "generation" means the human species.


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OTD UNDERDOGS

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OfflineTheShroomHermit
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Re: The Bible [Re: Funguy]
    #2403764 - 03/04/04 07:43 PM (13 years, 9 months ago)

So what, this places doomsday to be sometime before the last human dies?


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OfflineFunguy
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Re: The Bible [Re: TheShroomHermit]
    #2406758 - 03/08/04 01:43 PM (13 years, 9 months ago)

It's talking about the New Creation. A new earth to replace the old.


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OTD UNDERDOGS

Is attention your retarded heroin?


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Offlinepeleg
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Re: The Bible [Re: Funguy]
    #2407187 - 03/08/04 03:07 PM (13 years, 9 months ago)

Yashua Christ is the name of Jesus


--------------------
"Well the first days are the hardest days." When life looks like easy street there is danger at your door.....


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