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Shop: PhytoExtractum Buy Bali Kratom Powder   Unfolding Nature Unfolding Nature: Being in the Implicate Order

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InvisibleThe Blind Ass
Bodhi
I'm a teapot User Gallery


Registered: 08/16/16
Posts: 26,659
Loc: The Primordial Mind
Re: No visible growth from "spiritual" practices [Re: LunarEclipse]
    #23925131 - 12/14/16 07:14 AM (7 years, 1 month ago)

In Dzogchen, the metaphor most commonly used to describe our situation is that of a mirror and its reflections. The reflections in a mirror are like the thoughts in our mind, which if we don't recognize as being an illusory, impermanent, unmediated, manifestation of our true nature, we will react to, identify with, become conditioned by, absorbed in and embody. Our true nature state, on the other hand, is likened to the mirror itself, which underlies and embraces all of the reflections, all the while remaining pure and changeless, never being tainted or stained by any of the reflections. It is important to realize that each thought in our mind is like a dream; once we become absorbed in a thought, we have literally entered a complete dream universe and have evoked and stepped into an illusory, limited and arbitrary identity which we experience as being who we truly are. In Dzogchen, if we get immersed in our dream-like thoughts and don't recognize the pure, mirror-like nature of our mind, we are literally considered to be nonlucidly dreaming.

The problem is that as long as we are identified with and absorbed in the imagination or thought of being a separate self we are going to resist part of our experience, as resistance and contraction are themselves the very expression of the separate self. Once we, as a separate self, see that we are resisting our experience, we will undoubtedly try and not resist, which is just another, more subtle form of resistance, and we will find ourselves in a self-created double bind, a prisoner of our own mind once again.

Dzogchen truly offers us the key to liberation; from the Dzogchen point of view, these contractions and resistances are themselves seen to be the unmediated expression of the enlightened mind itself. If we don't recognize this, we will react to our resistance like it is something real and separate from ourselves, seeing it as a true obstruction to our enlightenment. If our resistance is seen in this way, it will, in no time whatsoever, spontaneously shape-shift and manifest as a seemingly genuine obscuration, as it is nothing other than our own reflection, and we will once again be caught in the infinite regression known as samsara or cyclic existence.

On the other hand, if we recognize our resistance as the unmediated expression of our enlightened nature itself, which is none other than to become lucid in the dream, not only does the resistance not last very long, but it ceases to be problematic, as we are no longer resisting our resistance, and have thus snapped out of our infinite regression. The resistance then reveals itself to be the very vehicle through which we have deepened our realization, as we have embraced even the part of ourselves that is non-embracing.


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Give me Liberty caps -or- give me Death caps


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InvisibleLunarEclipse
Enlil's Official Story
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Registered: 10/31/04
Posts: 21,407
Loc: Building 7
Re: No visible growth from "spiritual" practices [Re: The Blind Ass]
    #23925382 - 12/14/16 09:44 AM (7 years, 1 month ago)

Flying In A Blue Dream



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Anxiety is what you make it.


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Offlineyeah
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Registered: 02/08/09
Posts: 3,729
Last seen: 1 month, 22 days
Re: No visible growth from "spiritual" practices [Re: Mental Slavery]
    #23925410 - 12/14/16 09:57 AM (7 years, 1 month ago)



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OfflineMental Slavery
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Registered: 08/03/14
Posts: 828
Last seen: 1 day, 11 hours
Re: No visible growth from "spiritual" practices [Re: yeah]
    #23927065 - 12/14/16 05:42 PM (7 years, 1 month ago)

Thanks for spending time to respond guys, although i know you wouldnt if you didnt feel there was something personal to gain :P


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OfflinePeyote Road
Stranger
Male
Registered: 09/02/15
Posts: 3,527
Loc: Great Lakes State
Last seen: 1 year, 3 months
Re: No visible growth from "spiritual" practices [Re: Mental Slavery]
    #23928310 - 12/15/16 03:06 AM (7 years, 1 month ago)

OP how do you know that the world wouldn't be even worse without spiritual practices?


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The path of the herbalist is to open ourselves to nature in an innocent and pure way. SHe in turn will open her bounty and reward us with many valuable secrets. May the earth bless you. - Michael Tierra


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Offlinezzripz
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Registered: 12/23/08
Posts: 8,292
Loc: Manchester, UK
Last seen: 4 years, 7 months
Re: No visible growth from "spiritual" practices [Re: Mental Slavery]
    #23928390 - 12/15/16 05:27 AM (7 years, 1 month ago)

Quote:

Mental Slavery said:
Millions if not billions of people have read the great spiritual texts (bhagavad Gita, Tibetan book of the dead, bible). They have mulled over philosophical concepts, questioned life and reality. Millions if not billions have practiced yoga and meditation. Millions if not billions have taken psychedelics and explored the inner spaces of their mind through all sorts of psychonautical ventures. Millions if not billions have been to therapy. Millions if not billions use divination techniques. Millions if not billions have followed gurus and clung to every word

But after all this, what the fuck do we have to show for it? What do I have to show for it? Humanity is as unconscious and robotic as ever. I see no great expansions of consciousness from anywhere. I see no permanent shifts to lesser suffering or deeper awareness. All that I see is the development of models and concepts which we then use to self satisfy and pretend like we are going somewhere

At the same time that I say this, I understand that the creation of this perfect state or enlightenment is just myself dangling a non existant carrot in front of my face which only creates more suffering. There is nothing to be achieved. Nowhere to go. That the experience of expanded consciousness is no deeper than the experience of eating a piece of fish. But yet the momentum of thought cannot be stopped, this endless knot just keeps going round and round. Everyday I keep striving forward while "realizing" that there is nothing to strive for (this I believe cannot be realized, as it would cause the cessation of experience). This is complete insanity. But yet, who is the great magician who makes this insanity?

Within myself are the fighting notions exsistential angst and the drive to achieve

And what does this talking do? I will just pull down my hood and keep doing as I have been

From what I can see, All is the smell of burnt almonds, and I am just a mad barking dog




Your insight --how you start off your inquiry remind me very much of the book The Guru papers: Masks of Authoritarian Power

The authors pull apart and expose the Eastern forms of authoritarian control.

In the 1950s/60s as you know, young people discovered psychedelics. Then came this enormous looking to the East propagated by worldwide popular bands like The Beatles, and psychedelic celebrities like Timothy Leary, 'Ram Dass', etc. But there wasn't any critical evaluation of what Eastern philosophy was all about , so zillions of youth invested all their hope in that.
This also influenced the western New Age movement.

Throughout there has been this naive ignoreance of possible manipulation of youthful psychedelicized minds by nefarious hidden groups.

Only now, I think are many of us becoming more and more aware of who these hidden groups are and what their agenda is. I would say this agenda is to in many levels, to dull us to the natural world and our sensual physical and spiritual connection with it.

So, for example, in its Eastern form it is to make you pine for some idealistic 'enlightenment' and possible escape from nature, and to nullify any political activist motivations you might have as being 'negative' and not really 'changing anything because it is you who have to change' trip. So meditate, meditate, meditate with eyes shut. keep doing that mantra to quieten thinking. Thinking itself becomes the enemy! Don't think.... ommmmmmmmm

In the materialistic level the objective is to want success in the technomatrix. The technomatrix is devised to take over nature. It is leading, for this mindset, towards so-called 'transhumanism'.

And guess who are known as psychedelic transhumanists? Leary and McKenna, two of the most powerful influencers of the psychedelic movement spanning the generations. ALL hope was pushed on a technomatrix as our saviour.

The more hidden groups are into the OCCULT (Leary was a Crowley freak!), and they are using all forms of hidden language/code. This is real, and for me so-called enlightenment is not me becoming some kind of buddha, guru, god, perfect, but becoming AWARE of what these mindcontrollers are up to! Looking into what their agenda is and the codes they use!

Once we find ways to reconnect with nature (we are nature), by becoming aware and undermining their mindcontrol we will need less and less to depend on their technomatix and realize THE most important thing is community, and care for all other species and the natural world which is all our home, and for generations to come. THAT is real meaning.


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OfflineLRG
Supernaut
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Registered: 04/04/16
Posts: 871
Last seen: 4 years, 2 months
Re: No visible growth from "spiritual" practices [Re: Mental Slavery]
    #23929478 - 12/15/16 01:50 PM (7 years, 1 month ago)

"This is complete insanity. But yet, who is the great magician who makes this insanity?"

God. The WIZARD! You will only meet Him/Her or It or whatthefuckever if He wants you to. If you know Him, that is sufficient. You may ask questions but do not ask questions you don't want the answers to. He won't lie. He? She? I don't know man whatever is most comfortable to you. That's basically how it works.

The problem with the people of this world is they are segregated and prisoners of their own minds. Everyone perceives the world differently yet some of them try to train their minds to think like another. Accept that you are unique and your way is your own. No Guru, Yogi, nor Jesus Himself can help you think and see the way they do. They can only lead you to your own path and their wisdom can help you once you're on that course.

YOU ARE THE CAPTAIN OF YOUR VESSEL! They simply draw the chart.

I don't think billions of people have tried psychedelics. Truthfully, it is a rather small number because people are fearful of what they don't understand.

In the end, everybody fears the unknown because their minds do not know it.

Stop reading everything you read and read yourself... oooh I like that. Explore your mind? Meditate dude. It takes practice, patience, and prudence. You will not be able to wave a magic wand and happen upon revelations within days of doing it. Some people are more attuned to the Spirit than others. Some are so attuned they are never able to simplify the process and get caught up in all that metaphysical bullshit.

I hate existential bullshit. It's so boring. There's so much fun shit to do here. Why complicate things with questions like that? I do at times, I'll admit, but I don't allow myself to beat myself up over things I literally cannot comprehend.


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"I found it is the small everyday deeds of ordinary folk that keep the darkness at bay… small acts of kindness and love.” - Gandalf The Grey.

"It is the mark of an educated mind to entertain a thought without accepting it." - Aristotle

"I like to think of Jesus like with giant eagle's wings, and singin' lead vocals for Lynyrd Skynyrd with like an angel band and I'm in the front row and I'm HAMMERED DRUNK!" - Cal Naughton Jr. AKA The Magic Man. Abracadabra homes!

"Each tear is a drop of poison released." - Anonymous

"Could it be you're afraid of what your friends might say if they knew you believe in God above? They should realize before they criticize that God is the only way to Love."


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OfflineRJ Tubs 202
Male

Registered: 09/20/08
Posts: 6,016
Loc: USA Flag
Last seen: 17 hours, 25 minutes
Re: No visible growth from "spiritual" practices [Re: Mental Slavery] * 2
    #23930909 - 12/15/16 08:59 PM (7 years, 1 month ago)

Quote:

Mental Slavery said:

Humanity is as unconscious and robotic as ever.




You might consider changing your circle of friends.

Millions of people have significantly reduced their suffering.

Millions have become more kind more compassionate and more loving.

Millions have defeated addictions, depression, anxiety, and rage-fueled violence.


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Offlineghost01
Stranger
Registered: 12/10/16
Posts: 33
Last seen: 3 years, 4 months
Re: No visible growth from "spiritual" practices [Re: Mental Slavery] * 1
    #23938195 - 12/18/16 02:13 PM (7 years, 1 month ago)

Quote:

Mental Slavery said:
Millions if not billions of people have read the great spiritual texts (bhagavad Gita, Tibetan book of the dead, bible). They have mulled over philosophical concepts, questioned life and reality. Millions if not billions have practiced yoga and meditation. Millions if not billions have taken psychedelics and explored the inner spaces of their mind through all sorts of psychonautical ventures. Millions if not billions have been to therapy. Millions if not billions use divination techniques. Millions if not billions have followed gurus and clung to every word

But after all this, what the fuck do we have to show for it? What do I have to show for it? Humanity is as unconscious and robotic as ever. I see no great expansions of consciousness from anywhere. I see no permanent shifts to lesser suffering or deeper awareness. All that I see is the development of models and concepts which we then use to self satisfy and pretend like we are going somewhere

At the same time that I say this, I understand that the creation of this perfect state or enlightenment is just myself dangling a non existant carrot in front of my face which only creates more suffering. There is nothing to be achieved. Nowhere to go. That the experience of expanded consciousness is no deeper than the experience of eating a piece of fish. But yet the momentum of thought cannot be stopped, this endless knot just keeps going round and round. Everyday I keep striving forward while "realizing" that there is nothing to strive for (this I believe cannot be realized, as it would cause the cessation of experience). This is complete insanity. But yet, who is the great magician who makes this insanity?

Within myself are the fighting notions exsistential angst and the drive to achieve

And what does this talking do? I will just pull down my hood and keep doing as I have been

From what I can see, All is the smell of burnt almonds, and I am just a mad barking dog





The funny thing is; from a Buddhist standpoint you've actually seen the truth. The problem is you are still buried in ignorance. "Enlightenment" is not a state, it's not a thing that can be achieved. It's a realization. That realization is conceptualized thinking is the problem. The dualistic mind creating problems to solve.. is the problem. Once you see the basic nature of the mind, that is.. craving things/states/ideas/feelings/perceptions... you realize the solution is to simply stop doing that. Or simply realize that is what the mind is going to do, and be totally aware of it happening, and in that awareness you are no longer trapped. You are freed from it. Craving nothing, desiring nothing, not even enlightenment.. you are already 'enlightened'. With enough practice, the mind settles into stillness.. it stops seeking for something other than what currently is. Once this happens, there is no longer a problem. No problem, no suffering. No suffering, no problems.


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