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OfflineMental Slavery
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No visible growth from "spiritual" practices * 1
    #23920085 - 12/12/16 03:36 PM (7 years, 1 month ago)

Millions if not billions of people have read the great spiritual texts (bhagavad Gita, Tibetan book of the dead, bible). They have mulled over philosophical concepts, questioned life and reality. Millions if not billions have practiced yoga and meditation. Millions if not billions have taken psychedelics and explored the inner spaces of their mind through all sorts of psychonautical ventures. Millions if not billions have been to therapy. Millions if not billions use divination techniques. Millions if not billions have followed gurus and clung to every word

But after all this, what the fuck do we have to show for it? What do I have to show for it? Humanity is as unconscious and robotic as ever. I see no great expansions of consciousness from anywhere. I see no permanent shifts to lesser suffering or deeper awareness. All that I see is the development of models and concepts which we then use to self satisfy and pretend like we are going somewhere

At the same time that I say this, I understand that the creation of this perfect state or enlightenment is just myself dangling a non existant carrot in front of my face which only creates more suffering. There is nothing to be achieved. Nowhere to go. That the experience of expanded consciousness is no deeper than the experience of eating a piece of fish. But yet the momentum of thought cannot be stopped, this endless knot just keeps going round and round. Everyday I keep striving forward while "realizing" that there is nothing to strive for (this I believe cannot be realized, as it would cause the cessation of experience). This is complete insanity. But yet, who is the great magician who makes this insanity?

Within myself are the fighting notions exsistential angst and the drive to achieve

And what does this talking do? I will just pull down my hood and keep doing as I have been

From what I can see, All is the smell of burnt almonds, and I am just a mad barking dog


Edited by Mental Slavery (12/12/16 03:47 PM)


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Invisiblesudly
Darwin's stagger


Registered: 01/05/15
Posts: 10,810
Re: No visible growth from "spiritual" practices [Re: Mental Slavery]
    #23920105 - 12/12/16 03:44 PM (7 years, 1 month ago)

I don't know much about spiritual texts other than that the buddhist interpretation of karma involves the afterlife and previous lives.

I would think 'karma' is the result of present actions and not those of lives someone may have or could have had.



Personally I've been developing my own 'scientific spirituality' that assumes the human nervous system is the beholder of the human spirit in the form of a sense of morality, a conscience and overall sentience.


--------------------
I am whatever Darwin needs me to be.



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InvisibleRahz
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Registered: 11/10/05
Posts: 9,230
Re: No visible growth from "spiritual" practices [Re: Mental Slavery]
    #23920191 - 12/12/16 04:17 PM (7 years, 1 month ago)

Meditation could be helpful as a type of ritual that focuses intent, related to self improvement.

Meditation could also be helpful as a means of teaching focus and being less distractable.

Chakra meditation in particular may be helpful in getting to know one's feelings.

Whether all this ends in actual self improvement is a different matter. I think the changes I've experienced were more due to seeing harsh realities and painful experiences, but meditation seems to have served the above capacities and acted as a type of anchor to keep things in perspective during those times, more an adjunct rather than a magic pill.


--------------------
rahz

comfort pleasure power love truth awareness peace


"You’re not looking close enough if you can only see yourself in people who look like you." —Ayishat Akanbi


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InvisibleDividedQuantumM
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Re: No visible growth from "spiritual" practices [Re: Mental Slavery] * 1
    #23920204 - 12/12/16 04:21 PM (7 years, 1 month ago)

"The solution of the problem of life is seen in the disappearance of the problem."  --Ludwig Wittgenstein


--------------------
Vi Veri Universum Vivus Vici


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Invisiblesudly
Darwin's stagger


Registered: 01/05/15
Posts: 10,810
Re: No visible growth from [Re: DividedQuantum]
    #23920207 - 12/12/16 04:23 PM (7 years, 1 month ago)

Forgoing to concept of chakra's and buddhist interpretations of karma led me to my meditation, that alongside an inhibition of my fight or flight response with alpha-blocker medications.

I've seen people go by this interpretation.


But personally I choose to believe in this one.


Wholeness and clarity are a part of the rational brain.
Expression, love, power and enjoyment come from the emotional heart.
Survival comes from the instinctive gut. 

It's not that I don't believe in the concept of 8 'chakras' but that I've reinterpreted them into an anatomical model with only 3 sensation generating centres in humans.


--------------------
I am whatever Darwin needs me to be.



Edited by sudly (12/12/16 04:35 PM)


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Invisibleredgreenvines
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Posts: 37,539
Re: No visible growth from "spiritual" practices [Re: sudly]
    #23920372 - 12/12/16 05:19 PM (7 years, 1 month ago)

Quote:

sudly said:
I don't know much about spiritual texts other than that the buddhist interpretation of karma involves the afterlife and previous lives.

I would think 'karma' is the result of present actions and not those of lives someone may have or could have had.



Personally I've been developing my own 'scientific spirituality' that assumes the human nervous system is the beholder of the human spirit in the form of a sense of morality, a conscience and overall sentience.



that is actually the hindu legacy
buddhist karma talks about 3 negative roots - hatred greed and delusion and three good roots love generosity and wisdom.
rebirth is in a different category, unavoidable unless you reach nirvana.


--------------------
:confused: _ :brainfart:🧠  _ :finger:


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OfflineMental Slavery
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Re: No visible growth from "spiritual" practices [Re: DividedQuantum]
    #23920374 - 12/12/16 05:19 PM (7 years, 1 month ago)

Quote:

DividedQuantum said:
"The solution of the problem of life is seen in the disappearance of the problem."  --Ludwig Wittgenstein




okay

this statement creates problems by saying that perceiving or creating the notion of adversity is adversity. It is saying that what i am right now is not okay and that i need to strive for this state of "no problems"

me reaching for this state blocks it, and me deciding to not reach, is just a veil over a different type of reaching. there is no end to this

i hear more dogs yapping


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InvisibleLunarEclipse
Enlil's Official Story
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Registered: 10/31/04
Posts: 21,407
Loc: Building 7
Re: No visible growth from "spiritual" practices [Re: Mental Slavery]
    #23920381 - 12/12/16 05:23 PM (7 years, 1 month ago)

Quote:

Mental Slavery said:
Millions if not billions of people have read the great spiritual texts (bhagavad Gita, Tibetan book of the dead, bible). They have mulled over philosophical concepts, questioned life and reality. Millions if not billions have practiced yoga and meditation. Millions if not billions have taken psychedelics and explored the inner spaces of their mind through all sorts of psychonautical ventures. Millions if not billions have been to therapy. Millions if not billions use divination techniques. Millions if not billions have followed gurus and clung to every word

But after all this, what the fuck do we have to show for it? What do I have to show for it? Humanity is as unconscious and robotic as ever. I see no great expansions of consciousness from anywhere. I see no permanent shifts to lesser suffering or deeper awareness. All that I see is the development of models and concepts which we then use to self satisfy and pretend like we are going somewhere

At the same time that I say this, I understand that the creation of this perfect state or enlightenment is just myself dangling a non existant carrot in front of my face which only creates more suffering. There is nothing to be achieved. Nowhere to go. That the experience of expanded consciousness is no deeper than the experience of eating a piece of fish. But yet the momentum of thought cannot be stopped, this endless knot just keeps going round and round. Everyday I keep striving forward while "realizing" that there is nothing to strive for (this I believe cannot be realized, as it would cause the cessation of experience). This is complete insanity. But yet, who is the great magician who makes this insanity?

Within myself are the fighting notions exsistential angst and the drive to achieve

And what does this talking do? I will just pull down my hood and keep doing as I have been

From what I can see, All is the smell of burnt almonds, and I am just a mad barking dog




I fucking laughed so hard today, they played the little faggot is a millionaire song but had to cut out the faggot part.  Anyway, I have a little dog friend who I actually got howling at the end of the song, put his little head back and howled.

The smell of burnt almonds is benzaldehyde, and that's not good.  Are you a cherry marine?


--------------------
Anxiety is what you make it.


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InvisibleDividedQuantumM
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Registered: 12/06/13
Posts: 9,819
Re: No visible growth from "spiritual" practices [Re: Mental Slavery]
    #23920404 - 12/12/16 05:33 PM (7 years, 1 month ago)

Quote:

Mental Slavery said:
Quote:

DividedQuantum said:
"The solution of the problem of life is seen in the disappearance of the problem."  --Ludwig Wittgenstein




okay

this statement creates problems by saying that perceiving or creating the notion of adversity is adversity. It is saying that what i am right now is not okay and that i need to strive for this state of "no problems"

me reaching for this state blocks it, and me deciding to not reach, is just a veil over a different type of reaching. there is no end to this

i hear more dogs yapping




Okay, well, I think you're overthinking this a lot, and running around in circles.  The whole point of the quote is that you can stop going in these loops in your mind, and when you do that, you'll find that that incessant activity was the whole problem.  If you remove the object you're chasing, there's no point in chasing anymore.


--------------------
Vi Veri Universum Vivus Vici


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InvisibleLunarEclipse
Enlil's Official Story
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Registered: 10/31/04
Posts: 21,407
Loc: Building 7
Re: No visible growth from "spiritual" practices [Re: DividedQuantum]
    #23920415 - 12/12/16 05:37 PM (7 years, 1 month ago)

Quote:

DividedQuantum said:
Quote:

Mental Slavery said:
Quote:

DividedQuantum said:
"The solution of the problem of life is seen in the disappearance of the problem."  --Ludwig Wittgenstein




okay

this statement creates problems by saying that perceiving or creating the notion of adversity is adversity. It is saying that what i am right now is not okay and that i need to strive for this state of "no problems"

me reaching for this state blocks it, and me deciding to not reach, is just a veil over a different type of reaching. there is no end to this

i hear more dogs yapping




Okay, well, I think you're overthinking this a lot, and running around in circles.  The whole point of the quote is that you can stop going in these loops in your mind, and when you do that, you'll find that that incessant activity was the whole problem.  If you remove the object you're chasing, there's no point in chasing anymore.




Remove the tail, and you won't have to snake around to try and eat it.


--------------------
Anxiety is what you make it.


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Invisiblesudly
Darwin's stagger


Registered: 01/05/15
Posts: 10,810
Re: No visible growth from "spiritual" practices [Re: redgreenvines]
    #23920419 - 12/12/16 05:40 PM (7 years, 1 month ago)

Rebirth to me is a subjective category of perception and not of reality.

To me, if I were to believe in any form of rebirth I would have to believe in the rebirth of Jesus or such other mythological events too.

I think the way we develop as individual humans is influenced in part by our genetics, our relationships and the environment we're exposed to as we grow up.


--------------------
I am whatever Darwin needs me to be.



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OfflineMental Slavery
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Registered: 08/03/14
Posts: 828
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Re: No visible growth from "spiritual" practices [Re: DividedQuantum]
    #23920432 - 12/12/16 05:42 PM (7 years, 1 month ago)

@Divided and Lunar

I get that

but i see stopping one loop as creating another

there is a knot that i try to untie, but every motion only makes it tighter. me trying not to untie it, is a motion itself, which also furthers the upholding of this knot


Edited by Mental Slavery (12/12/16 05:43 PM)


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InvisibleLunarEclipse
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Registered: 10/31/04
Posts: 21,407
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Re: No visible growth from "spiritual" practices [Re: Mental Slavery]
    #23920450 - 12/12/16 05:51 PM (7 years, 1 month ago)

Quote:

Mental Slavery said:
@Divided and Lunar

I get that

but i see stopping one loop as creating another

there is a knot that i try to untie, but every motion only makes it tighter. me trying not to untie it, is a motion itself, which also furthers the upholding of this knot




Focus not on the loop, focus on the pool, that you can swim with me out of this mess.



--------------------
Anxiety is what you make it.


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InvisibleDividedQuantumM
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Registered: 12/06/13
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Re: No visible growth from "spiritual" practices [Re: Mental Slavery]
    #23920473 - 12/12/16 05:58 PM (7 years, 1 month ago)

Quote:

Mental Slavery said:
@Divided and Lunar

I get that

but i see stopping one loop as creating another

there is a knot that i try to untie, but every motion only makes it tighter. me trying not to untie it, is a motion itself, which also furthers the upholding of this knot







--------------------
Vi Veri Universum Vivus Vici


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OfflineMental Slavery
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Registered: 08/03/14
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Re: No visible growth from "spiritual" practices [Re: DividedQuantum]
    #23921482 - 12/13/16 12:27 AM (7 years, 1 month ago)

I feel as though u guys avoided the main points of my original post


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InvisibleKhancious
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Re: No visible growth from "spiritual" practices [Re: Mental Slavery] * 1
    #23921508 - 12/13/16 12:47 AM (7 years, 1 month ago)



--------------------
I am that, which is.


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Invisibleredgreenvines
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Re: No visible growth from "spiritual" practices [Re: Khancious] * 2
    #23921862 - 12/13/16 07:53 AM (7 years, 1 month ago)

millions if not billions who have looked for transcendence have experienced a sense of being uplifted to some extent, have seen ways to be more human briefly or extensively.

nothing is permanent, but to push back the sky is something we can and will do.

it is our dance, how we express our appreciation of the universe.

what other magic were you expecting, and did you think anything made of flesh and brainwaves was meant to last longer than a breath?

no visible growth? begin again. keep on beginning, and keep on pushing back the sky and looking around, it is way groovier than any alternative.


--------------------
:confused: _ :brainfart:🧠  _ :finger:


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InvisibleHuehuecoyotl
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Re: No visible growth from "spiritual" practices [Re: Mental Slavery]
    #23924278 - 12/13/16 09:06 PM (7 years, 1 month ago)

If one has spiritual views/practices that offer no immediate return, then one should move on, and get new ideas or practices. Doing the same thing over and over and failing each time is just stupidity.


--------------------
"A warrior is a hunter. He calculates everything. That's control. Once his calculations are over, he acts. He lets go. That's abandon. A warrior is not a leaf at the mercy of the wind. No one can push him; no one can make him do things against himself or against his better judgment. A warrior is tuned to survive, and he survives in the best of all possible fashions." ― Carlos Castaneda


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Invisibleredgreenvines
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Re: No visible growth from "spiritual" practices [Re: Huehuecoyotl]
    #23925047 - 12/14/16 06:03 AM (7 years, 1 month ago)

you need to unlearn that shit and fail better.


--------------------
:confused: _ :brainfart:🧠  _ :finger:


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InvisibleLunarEclipse
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Posts: 21,407
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Re: No visible growth from "spiritual" practices [Re: Huehuecoyotl]
    #23925111 - 12/14/16 06:50 AM (7 years, 1 month ago)

Quote:

Huehuecoyotl said:
If one has spiritual views/practices that offer no immediate return, then one should move on, and get new ideas or practices. Doing the same thing over and over and failing each time is just stupidity.




Actually, it's called "Quantitative Easing" because saying "don't worry, we are just printing more fake money" doesn't sound nearly as good.


--------------------
Anxiety is what you make it.


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