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InvisibleKauaiOrca
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Registered: 08/12/08
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Was Hillary the Worst Candidate Of All Time?
    #23919832 - 12/12/16 02:30 PM (7 years, 1 month ago)

Full Disclosure... I'm no Trump fan at all ... find much of what he does repulsive ... he's far from an ideal President so this is not a thread to push Trump.

Hillary blew perhaps the biggest front runner lead of all time.  She had tons of money, all the party support, cheating from the DNC, Celebrities, endorsements, ground game, Name ID ... and she was going up against a guy with more negatives than you could ever count.

She also blew a huge lead against Obama in 2008. 

She gets my vote for the worst Candidate of my lifetime.


--------------------
"The universe is endless, limitless and infinite.  Any effort to define it's boundaries is an attempt to overcome ignorance.  We are physical, mental and spiritual beings ... there is no beginning and there is no end.  There is only memory.  Our repeated loss of memory experiences create the illusion of beginnings and ends.  Immortality is the ability to retain full memory through all consciousness transformations.  Loss of memory is man's greatest curse and, in very real terms, death."

-- Ancient Taoist Master


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Offlineqman
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Re: Was Hillary the Worst Candidate Of All Time? [Re: KauaiOrca]
    #23919950 - 12/12/16 02:59 PM (7 years, 1 month ago)

Quote:

KauaiOrca said:
Full Disclosure... I'm no Trump fan at all ... find much of what he does repulsive ... he's far from an ideal President so this is not a thread to push Trump.

Hillary blew perhaps the biggest front runner lead of all time.  She had tons of money, all the party support, cheating from the DNC, Celebrities, endorsements, ground game, Name ID ... and she was going up against a guy with more negatives than you could ever count.

She also blew a huge lead against Obama in 2008. 

She gets my vote for the worst Candidate of my lifetime.




To be fair, the average US citizen went downhill during the 8 years of Obama, that has a huge impact that the MSM refuses to cover.

The MSM likes everyone to believe that everything is just fine, but it isn't at all. 

Also, the PC nonsense that Obama and the media pushed down everyone's throats really reached a breaking point, people were sick of it.

She jumped on board and basically called half of the US population racist and sexist, that's not good.


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InvisibleKauaiOrca
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Re: Was Hillary the Worst Candidate Of All Time? [Re: qman]
    #23920155 - 12/12/16 04:01 PM (7 years, 1 month ago)

Quote:

qman said:
Quote:

KauaiOrca said:
Full Disclosure... I'm no Trump fan at all ... find much of what he does repulsive ... he's far from an ideal President so this is not a thread to push Trump.

Hillary blew perhaps the biggest front runner lead of all time.  She had tons of money, all the party support, cheating from the DNC, Celebrities, endorsements, ground game, Name ID ... and she was going up against a guy with more negatives than you could ever count.

She also blew a huge lead against Obama in 2008. 

She gets my vote for the worst Candidate of my lifetime.




To be fair, the average US citizen went downhill during the 8 years of Obama, that has a huge impact that the MSM refuses to cover.

The MSM likes everyone to believe that everything is just fine, but it isn't at all. 

Also, the PC nonsense that Obama and the media pushed down everyone's throats really reached a breaking point, people were sick of it.

She jumped on board and basically called half of the US population racist and sexist, that's not good.




Yeah, deplorables didn't help ... cozying up with BLM was a mistake ... Clinton Charity money laundering ... old, terrible speaker ... acting like ISIS is not big deal ... Pro accelerating jihadi zone immigration ...

The list of dumb decisions is long


--------------------
"The universe is endless, limitless and infinite.  Any effort to define it's boundaries is an attempt to overcome ignorance.  We are physical, mental and spiritual beings ... there is no beginning and there is no end.  There is only memory.  Our repeated loss of memory experiences create the illusion of beginnings and ends.  Immortality is the ability to retain full memory through all consciousness transformations.  Loss of memory is man's greatest curse and, in very real terms, death."

-- Ancient Taoist Master


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OfflineEzuma
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Re: Was Hillary the Worst Candidate Of All Time? [Re: KauaiOrca] * 2
    #23920213 - 12/12/16 04:27 PM (7 years, 1 month ago)

Aside from the various scandals and theories, just based on how she presented herself, I have to say she is one of the most uninspiring and unsavory politicians I've seen, and I follow Canadian Politics: there is little more bland than Canadian politics, except Canadian TV.

She is just utterly unconvincing, not good in a debate (while Trump was ridiculous, she let him off too easy with so many missed opportunities, and her own points were hollow, poorly delivered and lacking solid facts nearly as much as Trumspter). Her tone and rhetoric all sounds like the nagging of a high-school vice principal, and nobody wants to elect their high-school vice principal. She was a shitty candidate and the only reason she got as many votes as she did was because the alternative was not only worse, but somehow drastically worse.

An embarrassment all round.


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Offlineqman
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Re: Was Hillary the Worst Candidate Of All Time? [Re: Ezuma]
    #23920224 - 12/12/16 04:31 PM (7 years, 1 month ago)

Quote:

Ezuma said:
Aside from the various scandals and theories, just based on how she presented herself, I have to say she is one of the most uninspiring and unsavory politicians I've seen, and I follow Canadian Politics: there is little more bland than Canadian politics, except Canadian TV.

She is just utterly unconvincing, not good in a debate (while Trump was ridiculous, she let him off too easy with so many missed opportunities, and her own points were hollow, poorly delivered and lacking solid facts nearly as much as Trumspter). Her tone and rhetoric all sounds like the nagging of a high-school vice principal, and nobody wants to elect their high-school vice principal. She was a shitty candidate and the only reason she got as many votes as she did was because the alternative was not only worse, but somehow drastically worse.

An embarrassment all round.




Yet, the general consensus was that she won all three of the debates. :shrug: 

Koods and the gang were convinced she outperformed Trump in those debates.


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OfflineEzuma
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Re: Was Hillary the Worst Candidate Of All Time? [Re: qman] * 3
    #23920237 - 12/12/16 04:36 PM (7 years, 1 month ago)

Quote:

qman said:
Quote:

Ezuma said:
Aside from the various scandals and theories, just based on how she presented herself, I have to say she is one of the most uninspiring and unsavory politicians I've seen, and I follow Canadian Politics: there is little more bland than Canadian politics, except Canadian TV.

She is just utterly unconvincing, not good in a debate (while Trump was ridiculous, she let him off too easy with so many missed opportunities, and her own points were hollow, poorly delivered and lacking solid facts nearly as much as Trumspter). Her tone and rhetoric all sounds like the nagging of a high-school vice principal, and nobody wants to elect their high-school vice principal. She was a shitty candidate and the only reason she got as many votes as she did was because the alternative was not only worse, but somehow drastically worse.

An embarrassment all round.




Yet, the general consensus was that she won all three of the debates. :shrug: 

Koods and the gang were convinced she outperformed Trump in those debates.




she did win the debates, in my opinion as well. She still performed terribly. She was just against a guy who wasn't even bothering to construct logical arguments or pretend to use facts. Trump doesn't debate well, but he knows he doesn't need to, since he panders to the lowest common denominator. Hillary did need to and she wasn't nearly as good at it as she should have been. Obama, for all his failings, would have destroyed Trump in any of those outings. Clinton's just not sharp enough I guess :shrug:


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Offlineqman
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Re: Was Hillary the Worst Candidate Of All Time? [Re: Ezuma]
    #23920257 - 12/12/16 04:43 PM (7 years, 1 month ago)

Quote:

Ezuma said:
Quote:

qman said:
Quote:

Ezuma said:
Aside from the various scandals and theories, just based on how she presented herself, I have to say she is one of the most uninspiring and unsavory politicians I've seen, and I follow Canadian Politics: there is little more bland than Canadian politics, except Canadian TV.

She is just utterly unconvincing, not good in a debate (while Trump was ridiculous, she let him off too easy with so many missed opportunities, and her own points were hollow, poorly delivered and lacking solid facts nearly as much as Trumspter). Her tone and rhetoric all sounds like the nagging of a high-school vice principal, and nobody wants to elect their high-school vice principal. She was a shitty candidate and the only reason she got as many votes as she did was because the alternative was not only worse, but somehow drastically worse.

An embarrassment all round.




Yet, the general consensus was that she won all three of the debates. :shrug: 

Koods and the gang were convinced she outperformed Trump in those debates.




she did win the debates, in my opinion as well. She still performed terribly. She was just against a guy who wasn't even bothering to construct logical arguments or pretend to use facts. Trump doesn't debate well, but he knows he doesn't need to, since he panders to the lowest common denominator. Hillary did need to and she wasn't nearly as good at it as she should have been. Obama, for all his failings, would have destroyed Trump in any of those outings. Clinton's just not sharp enough I guess :shrug:




She's wasn't good in the debates, yet she still won them in your opinion?  I think Trump did win one of debates in my opinion, I can't remember if it was 2 or 3.

The one where they argued about who was the biggest sexual predator (Trump or Bill) was amusing to say the least.


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OfflineEzuma
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Re: Was Hillary the Worst Candidate Of All Time? [Re: qman] * 1
    #23920269 - 12/12/16 04:48 PM (7 years, 1 month ago)

yes, she won but she wasn't good. She was better than him (at least in most of their exchanges) but that's not saying anything about her skills, merely Trump's lack of them in this particular area. The fact that it can be a matter of debate who won demonstrates how poorly she did, considering her opponent, in my opinion.


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InvisibleKauaiOrca
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Re: Was Hillary the Worst Candidate Of All Time? [Re: Ezuma] * 1
    #23920342 - 12/12/16 05:10 PM (7 years, 1 month ago)

Quote:

Ezuma said:
Quote:

qman said:
Quote:

Ezuma said:
Aside from the various scandals and theories, just based on how she presented herself, I have to say she is one of the most uninspiring and unsavory politicians I've seen, and I follow Canadian Politics: there is little more bland than Canadian politics, except Canadian TV.

She is just utterly unconvincing, not good in a debate (while Trump was ridiculous, she let him off too easy with so many missed opportunities, and her own points were hollow, poorly delivered and lacking solid facts nearly as much as Trumspter). Her tone and rhetoric all sounds like the nagging of a high-school vice principal, and nobody wants to elect their high-school vice principal. She was a shitty candidate and the only reason she got as many votes as she did was because the alternative was not only worse, but somehow drastically worse.

An embarrassment all round.




Yet, the general consensus was that she won all three of the debates. :shrug: 

Koods and the gang were convinced she outperformed Trump in those debates.




she did win the debates, in my opinion as well. She still performed terribly. She was just against a guy who wasn't even bothering to construct logical arguments or pretend to use facts. Trump doesn't debate well, but he knows he doesn't need to, since he panders to the lowest common denominator. Hillary did need to and she wasn't nearly as good at it as she should have been. Obama, for all his failings, would have destroyed Trump in any of those outings. Clinton's just not sharp enough I guess :shrug:




One thing this election taught us is that rural American and urban America see and interpret things different. Because virtually all of the media comes from and has a strong Urban bias, I think "general consensus" is suspect.  Rural America DID NOT think Hillary won the debates at all and they got more and more resentful when being told they were dumb, gun toting deplorables.

I thought Hillary sucked in the debates and I've always lived in urban areas.  Trump wasn't much better but her answers were status quo, same old same old and I know more than you so you should listen to me ... which is I think a contributor to what makes her so repulsive.


--------------------
"The universe is endless, limitless and infinite.  Any effort to define it's boundaries is an attempt to overcome ignorance.  We are physical, mental and spiritual beings ... there is no beginning and there is no end.  There is only memory.  Our repeated loss of memory experiences create the illusion of beginnings and ends.  Immortality is the ability to retain full memory through all consciousness transformations.  Loss of memory is man's greatest curse and, in very real terms, death."

-- Ancient Taoist Master


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OfflineEzuma
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Re: Was Hillary the Worst Candidate Of All Time? [Re: KauaiOrca]
    #23920490 - 12/12/16 06:02 PM (7 years, 1 month ago)

all of which can be pinned on 1. an uneven education system which utterly fails to create logical, questioning and informed citizens in most cases (for the obvious reason that the state doesn't actually want logical informed citizens) 2. an overtly corrupt system with a blatantly insincere personification in career politicians who's real interest groups are always the corporate oligarchy

the discrepancies pile up, the calls for change go unheeded and the quality of life of many Americans just continues to drop and they're told their view doesn't matter  or is wrong

the people are intentionally divided and kept from discussing the true central issue, which is class. Keep people bitching about race, spiraling down in regressive debates about who is more oppressed while ideas that could actually help address the central issues are dismissed out of hand, diminished to fear-mongering, misunderstood buzzwords.


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InvisibleKauaiOrca
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Re: Was Hillary the Worst Candidate Of All Time? [Re: Ezuma] * 1
    #23920526 - 12/12/16 06:13 PM (7 years, 1 month ago)

Quote:

Ezuma said:
all of which can be pinned on 1. an uneven education system which utterly fails to create logical, questioning and informed citizens in most cases (for the obvious reason that the state doesn't actually want logical informed citizens) 2. an overtly corrupt system with a blatantly insincere personification in career politicians who's real interest groups are always the corporate oligarchy

the discrepancies pile up, the calls for change go unheeded and the quality of life of many Americans just continues to drop and they're told their view doesn't matter  or is wrong

the people are intentionally divided and kept from discussing the true central issue, which is class. Keep people bitching about race, spiraling down in regressive debates about who is more oppressed while ideas that could actually help address the central issues are dismissed out of hand, diminished to fear-mongering, misunderstood buzzwords.




Globalization + technology... the ability to extract resources and wealth from communities in exchange for products manufactured with the cheapest possible level "somewhere else" so that the money is taken by the richest and never comes near that community again.  That's the issue.

What we need is REGIONAL manufacturing, energy, food and debt independence which is possible with nano manufacturing + 3D manufacturing advances ... The problem is by the time we get there, so much wealth will be compacted in so few hands that political power will be more of a PR whitewash than a system for change.

Our Constitution was never set up to govern corporations that have more money and power than our states do.  This must change or we will simply become the United Corporations of America.


--------------------
"The universe is endless, limitless and infinite.  Any effort to define it's boundaries is an attempt to overcome ignorance.  We are physical, mental and spiritual beings ... there is no beginning and there is no end.  There is only memory.  Our repeated loss of memory experiences create the illusion of beginnings and ends.  Immortality is the ability to retain full memory through all consciousness transformations.  Loss of memory is man's greatest curse and, in very real terms, death."

-- Ancient Taoist Master


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OfflineEzuma
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Re: Was Hillary the Worst Candidate Of All Time? [Re: KauaiOrca] * 1
    #23920558 - 12/12/16 06:19 PM (7 years, 1 month ago)

Quote:

KauaiOrca said:
Quote:

Ezuma said:
all of which can be pinned on 1. an uneven education system which utterly fails to create logical, questioning and informed citizens in most cases (for the obvious reason that the state doesn't actually want logical informed citizens) 2. an overtly corrupt system with a blatantly insincere personification in career politicians who's real interest groups are always the corporate oligarchy

the discrepancies pile up, the calls for change go unheeded and the quality of life of many Americans just continues to drop and they're told their view doesn't matter  or is wrong

the people are intentionally divided and kept from discussing the true central issue, which is class. Keep people bitching about race, spiraling down in regressive debates about who is more oppressed while ideas that could actually help address the central issues are dismissed out of hand, diminished to fear-mongering, misunderstood buzzwords.




Globalization + technology... the ability to extract resources and wealth from communities in exchange for products manufactured with the cheapest possible level "somewhere else" so that the money is taken by the richest and never comes near that community again.  That's the issue.

What we need is REGIONAL manufacturing, energy, food and debt independence which is possible with nano manufacturing + 3D manufacturing advances ... The problem is by the time we get there, so much wealth will be compacted in so few hands that political power will be more of a PR whitewash than a system for change.

Our Constitution was never set up to govern corporations that have more money and power than our states do.  This must change or we will simply become the United Corporations of America.




globalism isn't even necessarily bad, it just sure as hell isn't working with our current model. It can and should work someday.
I tend towards socialism and anti free market myself though


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OfflineMorel Guy
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Re: Was Hillary the Worst Candidate Of All Time? [Re: Ezuma]
    #23921939 - 12/13/16 08:37 AM (7 years, 1 month ago)

We live in a country were even a bad rap gets popularity and votes.  Press is press even if bad.  Plus people are extremely stupid.  They would vote formthemturd they leave in the toilet if it got press.


--------------------
"in sterquiliniis invenitur in stercore invenitur"

In filth it will be found in dung it will be found


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InvisibleKauaiOrca
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Re: Was Hillary the Worst Candidate Of All Time? [Re: Morel Guy]
    #23923673 - 12/13/16 06:13 PM (7 years, 1 month ago)

Quote:

Morel Guy said:
We live in a country were even a bad rap gets popularity and votes.  Press is press even if bad.  Plus people are extremely stupid.  They would vote formthemturd they leave in the toilet if it got press.




With the size of the US and the economy essentially driving the global economic engine, there's so much at stake in each elections that the biggest of the big boys are going to fight hard to get their way. 

We're insignificant feathers in the political wind. 

Trump will be interesting to watch, if for entertainment value alone.


--------------------
"The universe is endless, limitless and infinite.  Any effort to define it's boundaries is an attempt to overcome ignorance.  We are physical, mental and spiritual beings ... there is no beginning and there is no end.  There is only memory.  Our repeated loss of memory experiences create the illusion of beginnings and ends.  Immortality is the ability to retain full memory through all consciousness transformations.  Loss of memory is man's greatest curse and, in very real terms, death."

-- Ancient Taoist Master


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Offlineqman
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Re: Was Hillary the Worst Candidate Of All Time? [Re: KauaiOrca] * 1
    #23923772 - 12/13/16 06:40 PM (7 years, 1 month ago)

Quote:

KauaiOrca said:
Quote:

Morel Guy said:
We live in a country were even a bad rap gets popularity and votes.  Press is press even if bad.  Plus people are extremely stupid.  They would vote formthemturd they leave in the toilet if it got press.




With the size of the US and the economy essentially driving the global economic engine, there's so much at stake in each elections that the biggest of the big boys are going to fight hard to get their way. 

We're insignificant feathers in the political wind. 

Trump will be interesting to watch, if for entertainment value alone.




I'm afraid Trump voters are going to be very disappointed.

1. There's not going to be any/much infrastructure spending, top Republicans have been pissing on the idea for the last several days.

2. There's not going to be any tax cuts that stimulate main street, the cuts will be for the top which will ultimately hoard the extra cash.

3. Economic tariffs will fade into the sunset, not 1 Republican has jumped on board, not gonna happen.

4. Deportation of illegals- big money wants the cheap labor, case closed.

The fact of the matter is that big change does NOT come from political rhetoric or the voting booth, it comes from laying one's life on the line.


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OfflineEzuma
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Re: Was Hillary the Worst Candidate Of All Time? [Re: qman]
    #23923778 - 12/13/16 06:41 PM (7 years, 1 month ago)

Quote:

qman said:
Quote:

KauaiOrca said:
Quote:

Morel Guy said:
We live in a country were even a bad rap gets popularity and votes.  Press is press even if bad.  Plus people are extremely stupid.  They would vote formthemturd they leave in the toilet if it got press.




With the size of the US and the economy essentially driving the global economic engine, there's so much at stake in each elections that the biggest of the big boys are going to fight hard to get their way. 

We're insignificant feathers in the political wind. 

Trump will be interesting to watch, if for entertainment value alone.




I'm afraid Trump voters are going to be very disappointed.

1. There's not going to be any/much infrastructure spending, top Republicans have been pissing on the idea for the last several days.

2. There's not going to be any tax cuts that stimulate main street, the cuts will be for the top which will ultimately hoard the extra cash.

3. Economic tariffs will fade into the sunset, not 1 Republican has jumped on board, not gonna happen.

4. Deportation of illegals- big money wants the cheap labor, case closed.

The fact of the matter is that big change does NOT come from political rhetoric or the voting booth, it comes from laying one's life on the line.




again man, it's weird when I agree with you but that's exactly how I expect a Trump presidency to go down


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Offlineqman
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Re: Was Hillary the Worst Candidate Of All Time? [Re: Ezuma]
    #23923793 - 12/13/16 06:46 PM (7 years, 1 month ago)

It's not that Trump doesn't believe in that change, but we are talking TRILLIONS of yearly profits going down the toilet from an election result, the world doesn't work that way.

If US citizens want that to go away, they have to be willing to die for it, casting a vote doesn't get the job done when there's so much at stake.

Hillary didn't promise anything other than child care and help with college, that's not very much.


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OfflineEzuma
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Re: Was Hillary the Worst Candidate Of All Time? [Re: qman]
    #23923832 - 12/13/16 06:57 PM (7 years, 1 month ago)

I don't think we can really be sure of trump's motive either way, except that he's been shown to bullshit a lot so I don'tr trust anything he says, exactly like any other politicians really. But you're right the system is too entrenched to be shaken by one election.


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OfflineThe Ecstatic
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Re: Was Hillary the Worst Candidate Of All Time? [Re: Ezuma] * 2
    #23923942 - 12/13/16 07:30 PM (7 years, 1 month ago)

Clearly not, she got 2.5M more votes than Trump.

Mondale....Dukakis....there are/were far worse candidates out there.


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InvisibleKauaiOrca
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Re: Was Hillary the Worst Candidate Of All Time? [Re: The Ecstatic]
    #23924947 - 12/14/16 04:21 AM (7 years, 1 month ago)

Quote:

The Ecstatic said:
Clearly not, she got 2.5M more votes than Trump.

Mondale....Dukakis....there are/were far worse candidates out there.




Given the money advantages, endorsements, name ID, Media favoratism, etc., and she lost two elections in a row, both starting with enormous front runner leads.

She gets my vote as the worst ever.  Dukakis lost to a sitting VP and Mondale lost to the  most popular incumbent President of the modern era. 

Dukakis was also an extremely honest candidate.


--------------------
"The universe is endless, limitless and infinite.  Any effort to define it's boundaries is an attempt to overcome ignorance.  We are physical, mental and spiritual beings ... there is no beginning and there is no end.  There is only memory.  Our repeated loss of memory experiences create the illusion of beginnings and ends.  Immortality is the ability to retain full memory through all consciousness transformations.  Loss of memory is man's greatest curse and, in very real terms, death."

-- Ancient Taoist Master


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